I used GitHub issues as a form of project management to plan my wedding many years ago.
My wife was skeptical at first, but the ability to add labels, search, etc made it really easy to work together and accomplish the tasked we needed in time for the wedding.
The hardest part was creating a bookmark that links directly to the issue tracker.
Oh, I’ve also used GitHub issues to organize all the boxes in my most recent move. I would create an issue and the description would list all the contents of a box. Then I would write the issue number on the box. After moving, I could search GitHub to find that one thing I was looking for and know what box it was in.
klez · 1d ago
Out of curiosity, what other solutions did you explore and why were they lacking?
ableal · 1d ago
(Not OP)
I've used LibraryThing for book boxes. Using smallish boxes (30-40 paperbacks each) so that carrying them is not a backbreaker. Scan the ISBN barcodes with phone app, fix old ones/whatever on web app, tag with box number written on at least two sides. No problems found so far.
paulryanrogers · 1d ago
Why not just write what's in the box on the box?
veleek · 1d ago
Because you can’t search that without physically looking at each box. There could be a bunch odd reasons that many boxes remain unpacked; downsizing, temporary housing. It’d be nice to be able to finds the one thing you need (you could even label the issue with the box location!).
Anyway, a fun solution but I think it’s more effort than I would have been willing to put in even if I would have appreciated the outcome.
lkbm · 1d ago
I moved a couple weeks ago, and was quite confused when--after repeatedly searching through every kitchen box--we were missing the flour, sugar, and pasta.
Turns out one kitchen box got placed at the bottom of in a pile of book boxes in the living room.
If you unpack in a day, it's no big deal, but if you spent a week unpacking, you may find yourself having to eat something other than spaghetti for lunch, which is normally fine, but not when you really want spaghetti and the lack of spaghetti merely makes you more determined to find it.
layer8 · 1d ago
I put a colored sticker on each box, where the color corresponds to the room where the box should go. The destination rooms are marked with the same stickers during the move, so helpers have an easy time telling where to put each box.
In addition, I’m numbering the boxes, and when packing them keep a list mapping the numbers to what’s in each box. So when later searching for something, I know it should be in box number x. This can be helpful even years later when you don’t unpack all boxes.
styfle · 1d ago
> This can be helpful even years later when you don’t unpack all boxes.
Indeed, this is one of the biggest reasons I tracked this information to begin with.
irrational · 1d ago
Do your local grocery stores not sell spaghetti?
lkbm · 1d ago
I ended up buying spaghetti when I went to the store a couple days later, and now I have an abundance of spaghetti. But lunch that first day ended up being something else.
bonki · 1d ago
The good thing is, you can't have too much pasta.
linsomniac · 1d ago
>but if you spent a week unpacking
Look at you! I still have boxes packed from my move a decade ago. :-)
aembleton · 1d ago
Time to bin them
overfeed · 1d ago
"I wonder what ever happened to $VERY_IMPORTANT_DOCUMENT? It just disappeared"
lostlogin · 1d ago
> If you unpack in a day, it's no big deal
I think you’re supposed to unpack 80% on day one, and keep the rest boxed up for the next move?
paulryanrogers · 1d ago
Don't you still have to search for the box with the issue number, once you've found which number has what you need?
AlecSchueler · 1d ago
It's much faster to read a single number from 12 boxes than 3-4 pieces of text from 12 boxes.
remram · 1d ago
Wouldn't a single text document have achieved the same purpose? With a heading for each box?
styfle · 1d ago
I liked being able to “close” the issue once I unpacked the box.
remram · 57m ago
That makes sense. Open it when you close the box, close it once you open the box ;-)
sameerds · 1d ago
Because searching for a thing across all issues is way faster than eyeballing the list written on each box?
freedomben · 4h ago
Yes, but unless you are tracking the location of every box and adding it to the relevant github issue, finding the issue in Github doesn't help you find the box IRL.
detaro · 4h ago
Not that hard to keep to some scheme how you sort the boxes or dropping a quick note in the issue, and finding the box with a big one word/number label is easier than finding the box where one of a dozens things written on it is the thing you want.
styfle · 1d ago
Correct. There’s no way you’re going to write every item inside the box on the box itself. And definitely not on every side of the box. Think cables and small items.
It only makes sense if you plan on unpacking over a year but if you unpack everything in a couple days then the system is not as useful.
freedomben · 5h ago
Is it really less work to type it into github issues than to just write it on the box with a marker?
detaro · 4h ago
Not much, but writing it in the issue is a lot more useful because you can search. The manual search writing everything on the box enables is a lot more annoying.
This is a fun anecdote to share, but everywhere you can find people with absurd workflows that are better dealt with using proper tools. FWIW I used Org mode to organize a move to another country. I really cannot stand the idea of feeding my personal information to Microsoft.
birn559 · 1d ago
Sounds to me like parent used a proper tool. It just happens to be very flexible. In general, the best tool is the one that you use and makes sense to you.
INTPenis · 1d ago
At my last job we almost used Gitlab for all our project management. The only thing that stopped us was not being able to use references between projects. It's very project focused, which is of course good enough for open source projects.
But at my current job Gitlab could easily take over Youtrack, already took over Upsource.
I got 9,413 issues and 39,087 comments, for a grand total of 48,500 combined!
cogogo · 1d ago
I expected the first comment to be about privacy. I don’t keep a lot of notes but I definitely consider them even more private than even email. Not sure I want them training LLMs. Or are there actually assurances from MS around privacy for private repos?
simonw · 1d ago
The amount of extremely sensitive corporate secrets in GitHub issues makes me assume that their security and privacy are pretty rock solid.
A lot of companies pay GitHub a lot of money to look after their source code and related artifacts. That's GitHub's business model. I don't think they would jeopardize that trust for the sake of training a model on private data.
al_borland · 1d ago
Where I work we don’t use GitHub, but we do use Copilot. It took a long time before it was opened up for us to be able to use it, as deals had to be struck and accounts and auth setup to use our corporate logins, which have different rules for data privacy than public use of Copilot. We are explicitly forbidden from using the public version of Copilot, or any other AI for that matter.
I can only assume that companies paying for GitHub also pay for enhanced levels of privacy. Just because a company can pay GitHub not to train on their data, doesn’t mean they’re not going to train on your data that is being hosted for free. They are almost certainly crawling all free repos.
randallsquared · 1d ago
I dunno. For one thing, those companies are paying GitHub a lot of money for the enterprise version, separately hosted (right?). The data isn't actually available to Microsoft employees or LLMs, absent some security flaw or backdoor. For another, companies that pay for this also (sample size is small, though) have automation that scans GitHub repos, issues, etc for any secrets and require them to be removed and scrubbed from history, implying that they don't trust even the self-hosted GitHub Enterprise as much as you do.
simonw · 1d ago
I see secrets as a different issue. Putting those in an issue or repo exposes them to potentially hundreds of people within your own company, that's bad practice.
Sunspark · 1d ago
I remember awhile back that they were and do train on repositories to the point that I never wanted to use GitHub for anything other than submitting bug reports to projects.
Maybe the non-training only applies if you pay protection money? But then you run into the whole if it's public there's nothing stopping some other AI that isn't MS from accessing the repository and training on it.
simonw · 1d ago
There's been a huge amount of speculative information floating around that GitHub are training on private repos, but I've never seen anything credible.
freedomben · 4h ago
Yeah, I generally expect big tech to be vacuuming, storing, and analyzing as much data as they can, but for Github doing something like training on private repos would be one of the riskiest things I can imagine. No way they are going to jeopardize their entire business to maybe get a little bit more data to train on.
dcreater · 1d ago
Assumptions are not sufficient when it comes to basic human rights. And my assumption is that they do or will use your data from their own interest as the likelihood that someone within Microsoft will benefit tends to 1 as time tends to infinity.
privacy needs to be verifiable (Apple has show this is possible with private cloud compute)
fsflover · 1d ago
> Or are there actually assurances from MS around privacy for private repos?
How is it excellent when current logs could do with a bit of redesign doesn't find the comment (requires quotes to find it)
And then a tiny typo "current logs could" do with a bit of redesing also fails you
sureIy · 1d ago
Confirm. GitHub search is "search" not "excellent search"
__MatrixMan__ · 1d ago
It's such a wasted opportunity too. It would be so powerful to understand how a tool is used by searching for popular repositories that are already using it.
simonw · 1d ago
I do that all the time! What's GitHub search missing that prevents you from doing that?
I see, I thought it would be matching the repo's contained languages, not the file's language. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Searching for "go" as a substring turns up a lot of false positives, but at least now I know the search is not flat out broken.
joker99 · 1d ago
The fact that you can’t even specify the branch or search across branches is anything but excellent
fbnlsr · 1d ago
Like many I've been looking for the best note-taking app for years. And somehow I always come back to a bunch of markdown files inside a Git repo.
_fat_santa · 1d ago
> And somehow I always come back to a bunch of markdown files inside a Git repo.
Others have mentioned this but if you want to keep this workflow, the best app I've found is Obsidian + Git Plugin. It works fantastically well on desktop though it does require a little work to get it working on iOS.
noahjk · 1d ago
Are there options to see the current state of the repo? What I mean is, for example, I like that in VS Code I instantly know the current state because the git sidebar icon shows a notification of uncommitted changes. If I don't have a visual reminder, I'm more likely to not make commits when I should, and I also don't want an auto-committer firing after each change. I find the visual reminder keeps me anchored to my git status.
Heck, maybe I should just use code for notes. One plus would be web access with code server, since Obsidians only docker image that I know of uses VNC.
Anyone compared these two tools and have a decent write up? The biggest item which comes to mind would be referencing other notes and the features built on top of that?
DavideNL · 1d ago
> Are there options to see the current state of the repo?
There are a couple methods - I use Working Copy to manage the git stuff on iOS. Far from perfect, but it works.
SOLAR_FIELDS · 1d ago
a-shell is another way you can do this. Takes a bit of finagling to set up and wire in plugins and the like but is relatively stable afterward.
frou_dh · 1d ago
Compared to something with automatic bidirectional sync between all devices, something where one has to manually commit/push/pull a new/edited note feels archaic.
tasuki · 1d ago
OTOH you get version history, with commit messages if you care to write them. And the full power of git to explore the history. You can edit the same file on two (offline) devices, then resolve the inevitable merge conflict.
"Automatic bidirectional sync between all devices" scares me. How does it deal with merge conflicts? How am I sure I'll be able to revert to a previous version? Can I see the full history of a file? I don't know, perhaps it'd be ok. I certainly wouldn't learn git just for note taking! But, I know how to use my hammer, so everything look like a nail...
j_maffe · 1d ago
But you can still have the full power of git with Obsidian still, since they're just MD files at the end of the day.
klez · 1d ago
You can automate commits and push on save. I had a similar setup for vimwiki before migrating to a web-based wiki system (dokuwiki).
fbnlsr · 1d ago
I thought it would be a problem as well but it turns out I absolutely never edit my notes on two machines at once. The commit/push/pull is done via a simple bash script that I'm running as a build command inside VS Code.
prepend · 1d ago
I like it as I consciously enjoy sort of checking in.
I also store in a onedrive folder for automatic sync and backup in case I have a crash before I do a git commit.
AlienRobot · 22h ago
Is that really useful? How often do you need to revert a commit?
trevinhofmann · 1d ago
Might be worth trying this free and open source note-taking app (disclaimer: client of mine).
I did take a look at that, which is probably more than most people would have done, and by take a look I mean a skimmed for images because I'm not reading 2000 words of text for an app I don't even use yet. The only images I found showed how drag and drop works.
I know this is common with projects that think Github is a replacement for a website, but I genuinely wonder how does it get so bad that a 5 year project with 9000 commits and 60 contributors doesn't have a single screenshot. Nothing personal or particular about this project specifically, just... the whole open source culture of dropping something on Github and not even doing the bare minimum to have other people get to know the project.
It feels like such a waste. It could be an amazing project but who is going to bother with it if they can't see what it looks like?
miroljub · 1d ago
For me, it's the same way, except that instead of Markdown, I use plain org-mode files sprinkled with a bit of org-roam tags when needed.
al_borland · 1d ago
I oscillate between Apple Notes and a bunch of markdown files, which is a pretty painful thing to do.
I like how future proof a folder of markdown files is. But I like the design, simplicity, and deep features for capture and media support offered in Apple Notes.
The more a markdown app supports extra stuff, the more proprietary it starts to feel, as any app to read it will also need to support those things.
A while back I told myself I was going to stick to Apple Notes, as going back and forth to other things is painful, and doing it proactively means more pain, rather than maybe having some pain in 10 years of the app goes away. However, where I am again, in the middle of a largely manual migration back to Obsidian for my folder of markdown files. I used an export, but the formatting is so bad that I need to clean up every single note.
thebytefairy · 1d ago
The inability to export, as well as the lack of anything more than the bare basic formatting options (at least at the time a few years ago) pushed me off apple notes.
prepend · 1d ago
I’ve been able to export since early, early iPhone. They’re just txt files. Surprisingly, Apple notes have been the most durable as Apple has migrated them from every iPhone I’ve had for the past 15-20 years or whatever.
Basic formatting is a plus for me. Although now notes has really advanced formatting and even sketching.
uvx apple-notes-to-sqlite /tmp/notes.db
# in another terminal while that's running
uvx datasette /tmp/notes.db
al_borland · 21h ago
I ended up using Exporter from the App Store. I didn't work great. I have an export, but there are a lot of issues with it. I'm finding it is often easier to copy the note and use the Rich Text to Markdown action in Shortcuts, then paste into Obsidian. If I spent more time with Shortcuts there is probably a way to automate this way a bit more.
There are plenty of tools for exporting, and I’ve tried to leave Notes several times and had no issue getting the notes out.
But trouble free sync between machines, the ability to ‘scan’ documents, adding basic maths support, the ease… it always sucks me back in.
I wish it kept the date of creation and edits readily available, and supported markdown. But it’s damn close to what I want.
Why can’t Apple Mail do search as well as notes?
chrisweekly · 1d ago
Strong rec to keep using markdown files in a git repo -- and start using Obsidian to edit and manage them.
fbnlsr · 1d ago
I switch between VS Code and MarkText. It does the job perfectly.
exe34 · 1d ago
org-roam inside git
msravi · 1d ago
...accessed through Obsidian (esp on mobile) -- On Android, you can "Open folder as vault"
Or neovim with FzfLua (on laptop)
triknomeister · 1d ago
I have an idea. Coming soon!!
bayindirh · 1d ago
Obsidian + Git plugin? :)
Jakob · 1d ago
On the last point on Apple Notes: iCloud has the “keep downloaded” option now on iOS and macOS for folders and files.
This makes every app that saves into iCloud files behave like Notes, i.e. work offline with automatic online sync.
greggsy · 1d ago
How does it handle contention, and how frequently does it sync?
nsonha · 1d ago
is iCloud still downloading and reuploading again if you drag things between folders?
nivertech · 14h ago
Years ago I was using GitHub Issues as my personal task manager
But ~ 2 years ago I switched to Obsidian for that
Eventually I event started used Obsidian for my project management, and ditched GitHub Issues / GitHub Projects
With caveats, that I use that for the greenfield project with lots of unstructured exploration + AI agents for keeping design docs and figuring out detailed tasks
For the established and legacy projects, I would probably use GitHub Issues for bugs, enhancement requests. And GitHub Projects for all reactive work (support, ops, bugs, etc.)
Lastly, I disagree that it's "almost the best notebook in the world". It my might be a best ticketing system or a note taking system, but not a notebook in the sense of Jupyter or LiveBook (but nothing stopping them to make code blocks executable[1], and even add some LLMs).
Also it's easy overwrite the content of the issue, even by a single person working from different tabs (at least that was the case in the past).
My protection against that is nepotism: I'm a "GitHub Star" which gets me direct access to GitHub staff, plus I know a lot of people who work there.
layer8 · 1d ago
Yeah, I’m writing this for the benefit of people who want to follow your usage. It also means that your advice doesn’t generalize.
simonw · 1d ago
Totally fair - if you don't have a deep relationship with GitHub it's absolutely a good idea to arrange your own backups in case of your account being suspended!
prepend · 1d ago
I mean, there are my local clones. The odds of all my locals crashing at the same time as GitHub seem to be the same as local+github+sourcehut+whatever crashing.
layer8 · 1d ago
This thread is about using GitHub issues. Those aren’t contained in local repository clones.
xeonmc · 1d ago
So Codeberg then.
simonw · 1d ago
https://codeberg.org/ says "Codeberg is a non-profit, community-led effort that provides Git hosting and other services for free and open source projects."
Wouldn't hosting my own private notes on there be against the spirit of what they're trying to achieve?
I have no problem at all freeloading off GitHub!
bjourne · 1d ago
Totally agree. GitHub issues is probably the best bug tracker/ticketing system you can imagine. Intuitive interface, simple, clean, and fast. Just waiting for a Microsoft redesign to completely fuck it up. :P
kccqzy · 1d ago
I've used plenty of proprietary issue tracking systems and GitHub is missing several features that I now consider quite important though certainly not essential:
* The ability to write an issue summary separate from comments. When you are debugging some hairy bug, some manager doesn't really want to wade through all the comments to get an idea; an editable summary at the very top of the page communicates high-level points to stakeholders while others continue to comment on details. People work around this by editing the initial comment of the issue but it's better if there's something more dedicated.
* Sophisticated access control. More than once when someone writes a bug report they are referring to a bug experienced by a single user. For user privacy reasons there needs to be a per-issue permission system to restrict access beyond the permission implied by the repo.
* The ability to add personal notes to an issue without publishing it. Whether it's a draft form of a comment or something else, it gets rid of the need to maintain your own notes.
bjourne · 1d ago
Every experienced dev knows what happens when they are subjected to issue trackers with loads of features: some managers require all those features to be used (cause that's what they paid for!). So instead of spending your time debugging you have to ensure the bug is properly tagged, categorized, has the right version number(s) for affected software, has the right assignee, yadda, yadda. Then some busy beaver will send you email reminding you that you haven't filled in all the drop-downs and check boxes correctly....
hnlmorg · 1d ago
1. Summary
It wouldn’t be too hard to add that with a 3rd party plugin. You could set an event hook to run through the comments, and add it to the top comment.
For bonus points, you could use an LLM to summarise. Every company loves a bit of AI these days, so your manager can gloat with his manager buddies that you now have AI-powered issue tracking.
2. That sounds like an anti-pattern to me. There shouldn’t be PII in your dev issue tracking system.
There problem here isn’t RBAC, it’s the workflow. If you’re in a situation where you need to make notes of sensitive information then you should store that in the same data store as the source information (eg Salesforce, et al). And I say this as someone who hates Salesforce.
3. I’ve not seen this feature in any issue tracker. Sounds like a nice feature but I wouldn’t have thought it as essential.
kccqzy · 1d ago
> That sounds like an anti-pattern to me. There shouldn’t be PII in your dev issue tracking system.
Then how do you track such issues? I'll give you a real example I've experienced: a high-value customer writes to support and complains that his UI is broken. None of the other people's UIs are broken. Do you not use the issue tracking system just because you need to get that customer's private settings and PII in order to debug the bug?
It's common to require PII to be stored elsewhere, but people will still make mistakes and copy paste PII for convenience. In the end isn't it better for your issue tracking system to be flexible enough to store PII?
hnlmorg · 1d ago
You can say user ID is broken and define how it’s broken. You don’t have include any of their PII outside of the user ID.
> It's common to require PII to be stored elsewhere, but people will still make mistakes and copy paste PII for convenience.
That’s a training problem.
And It’s also common for people to fuck up RBAC. The latter is a harder problem to fix with training than teaching them to keep PII out of issue tracking systems.
> In the end isn't it better for your issue tracking system to be flexible enough to store PII?
I’ve worked in some very sensitive domains. They managed just fine keeping customer data out of the issue tracking systems.
kccqzy · 1d ago
The user ID is a piece of email. It is PII. To define how it's broken is to describe a list of specific actions the user did to the private information in their account causing the UI to be broken.
If training is such a problem, I don't understand why we solve the problem by obviating such training and make the issue tracking system an acceptable storage medium for PII?
hnlmorg · 1d ago
Because you were the one that said you needed granular RBAC to limit who has visibility of what issues!
billylb42 · 1d ago
3. ServiceNow incident tracking has something close called “work notes”. Work notes are for internal team members with a certain role, where comments are public and meant to communicate to the issue reporter.
9dev · 1d ago
> an editable summary at the very top of the page communicates high-level points to stakeholders
I would hope this will soon be written by AI automatically; summing up high-level points in an issue discussion seems like a perfect task for an LLM.
llm \
-f issue:https://github.com/simonw/sqlite-chronicle/issues/7 \
-m openai/o4-mini \
-o reasoning_effort high \
-s 'Output markdown explaining this issue and the proposed resolution succinctly and clearly'
pacifika · 1d ago
Run the Orbit extension on the page. That should give you a summary
kccqzy · 1d ago
That reminds me: GitHub has a bad habit of hiding comments in a long issue. It displays the first few and the last few comments. So you can't expect an extension to grab the entire context without it specifically being designed for GitHub. In fact even the browser's built-in Find In Page won't find everything.
simonw · 1d ago
Yeah, I'm annoyed by that too. Thankfully it doesn't affect the API.
hugh-avherald · 1d ago
Isn't the entire purpose of Azure DevOps to be a sort of Jovian gravity well into which Microsoft marketing principles can be sucked into before they hit GitHub?
WorldMaker · 4h ago
Hard for it to stay that way when Microsoft's own teams start dogfooding it. Evidence points to even the Windows Team using GitHub Issues as their primary PM tool today.
The saving grace for now seems to be that Microsoft sees the "Advanced" PM tools in GitHub as value adds and is either rolling them out slowly to charge "Preview Customers" for as long as possible for that for that feature before making it public and/or putting them into GitHub pricing tiers such as "If you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it" and "Offer you cannot afford to refuse".
soraminazuki · 1d ago
It's already locked up behind a login wall. You can only search for a handful of issues before being quickly rate limited.
Tepix · 1d ago
The missing feature is federation! In my view, centralized structures like a giant source repository such as github are something we as a developer community need to avoid. Unfortunately, features like federated merge requests in gitlab ( https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/-/issues/14116 ) are something we've been waiting for for 9 years and nothing seems to be happening there. This feature alone would enable a lot of new collaboration without forcing everyone to work on a centralized system to use git - a decentralized versioning system - with high efficiency.
Last week, Microsoft cut off the email account of the chief prosecutor of the international criminal court, after being ordered to do so by the Trump administration. This is merely a week or two after Microsoft did a big PR campaign, telling the European Union how they were to stand up against this administration if the need arises. The irony!
Trump isn't hiding his opinion about the EU. What's stopping him from ordering Microsoft to block the EU from accessing github one day? Right now: Nothing at all. Think about how it would impact your business and open source software in general. We must not put all our eggs in a single basket.
Lutger · 1d ago
Absolutely. Any public institution or governmental body needs to rethink their fragile reliance on technology from countries they can longer trust. This applies to China, but the US is even more unpredictable.
__MatrixMan__ · 1d ago
I keep meaning to check out https://radicle.xyz/ for this, but I think I'll wait for things to get even worse before I do, and then later I'll regret not having explored the durable option sooner.
j_maffe · 1d ago
Sounds like Obsidian but with extra steps.
supermatt · 1d ago
Is one of those extra steps “not pay $50 a year to have access on all your devices”, or maybe it’s “not pay $100 a year to access via the web”?
rubidium · 1d ago
I thought it supports most file storage sync solutions? I’m using with the free iCloud level storage I believe.
supermatt · 1d ago
Sure, but then you can’t access it on windows or android. Or the web.
I’m responding more to the comment that it’s extra steps. It’s clearly not as good a solution as obsidian, but there are no extra steps for it being accessible over the web or to all your devices - not just those for the devices built in cloud provider.
cheema33 · 1d ago
I use obsidian on iphone, Mac, Windows and ipad. It syncs using icloud free tier. I don't have to pay. icloud is available on Windows as well.
gchamonlive · 1d ago
If windows or android is a must then use something that has a client in them. I use OneDrive because it's the cheapest in my region. It's got terrible support from Microsoft, just lazy and terrible, but there are third party sync solutions for all platforms.
I think GitHub/gitlab issues is totally viable. Obsidian/Logseq too.
supermatt · 1d ago
Does onedrive work now for syncing obsidian on iOS? I don’t think it did when I last tried a year or so ago.
gchamonlive · 1d ago
If it doesn't, you just need to find one that does. I use it because I don't care about iOS. If you need one that supports iOS, macos, windows, Android and Linux and there isn't one, then it's justified to pay for their sync solution.
Or just use GitHub/gitlab issues.
j_maffe · 1d ago
I use Git syncing on GitHub with 0 issues myself. Since when has file syncing been an issue?
nsteel · 1d ago
I have access on all my devices through my email provider WebDAV. I don't pay anything to Obsidian for this (but I do donate to them because it actually is the best notes provider, in my opinion).
supermatt · 1d ago
So I guess the extra step is “not install and configure a 3rd party WebDAV plugin for all your devices while ensuring you have WebDAV support by your email provider”?
nsteel · 1d ago
I guess so. I'm personally not getting bogged down in extra steps or not. I simply don't trust GH to keep my personal note data for me, it's much too valuable. It looks like it is possible to backup GH issue data... with some extra steps...
cpach · 1d ago
I gladly pay those fifty bucks. Creating good applications require hard work.
(I wouldn’t say Obsidian is perfect, but so far I haven’t found any note-taking application that I like more.)
supermatt · 1d ago
I’m not denying that obsidian is a better solution, just pointing out to the parent that there aren’t “extra steps” to the described solution - it is exactly what it is - but you need to add paid features (8$/m) to obsidian in order to get web access.
j_maffe · 1d ago
No you don't. You can use your own web-hosting or web-syncing solutions. I just use Git. There's an excellent (and free) plugin on Obsidian exactly for this reason.
stavros · 1d ago
Does this plugin let me export Obsidian notes as a website? Would you happen to remember the name?
supermatt · 1d ago
that sounds like "extra steps" to me... and you still need somewhere to sync to and serve from...
j_maffe · 1d ago
Also with Github you can have a private repo for free with which you can host and sync your files.
genewitch · 1d ago
I thought private repos were the ones that required patment, did that change?
I think there's a limit on the number of private limit. I personally never hit that limit.
j_maffe · 1d ago
I never said Obsidian doesn't require extra steps to setup sync without paying. Do you happen to know one that also allows you to save locally and have back-linking features?
Cthulhu_ · 1d ago
Obsidian sounds like text files with extra steps, but your point remains, plain text files are great. There's multiple solutions from keeping them available across devices.
Lutger · 1d ago
The extra step is to open the text file in an editor, except in this case the editor is called Obsidian.
Granted, you do have to install it versus using the default editor that comes with your operating system, so that is an extra step. But most people don't use the builtin editors from their OS anyway.
alfons_foobar · 1d ago
Well yeah, Obsidian is basically a markdown editor with some nice extra features. And apparently a quite thriving plugin ecosystem.
nsteel · 1d ago
And unlike Obsidian, online only. Can you even backup GH issues? If not, that's surely got to be a deal-breaker.
pipes · 1d ago
Can I host obsidian myself? I would like to use it for work, but I don't want to expose my employer to potential data leak.
I'm thinking, host it locally and just let one drive act as back up for the mark down files it produces?
conception · 1d ago
It’s just a bunch of markdown files. You can sync with anything. I just use a git plugin.
justusthane · 1d ago
As others have pointed out you don't "host" Obsidian - it's just a local collection of markdown files. But if you're asking about a self-hosted alternative to "Obsidian Publish" for creating a knowledgebase that others can answer, I'm Quartz[0], a static-site generator designed to turn Obsidian markdown files into a website. I'm building and it and hosting it on Gitlab Pages at work[1].
I recently went through this effort and I'd say it's worth it. In particular, I've used the "Self-hosted LiveSync" plug-in + docker.io/oleduc/docker-obsidian-livesync-couchdb, and I setup all my infrastructure within a VPN (with Tailscale, this was pain-free).
I knew about using just git, but having Windows, Linux, macOS, iOS and Android, it was just way easier to use this solution instead of fighting with git-like apps for each OS.
delcaran · 1d ago
With Syncthing you don't need hosting. I use it for everything I can.
zie · 18h ago
Forgejo does almost everything Github does around issues that the OP mentioned(I think).
* It doesn't extract the title from the issue on bare linkes, instead the url will become something like: <group>/<repo>#15 Which isn't as nice. So issue #15 in repo tootie/mynotes would look like: tootie/mynotes#15
* It also doesn't do offline sync.
I think that's the only thing it doesn't do. I use Git Touch on iOS and it seems decent enough, you can get to issues and update them, etc.
The bonus is, assuming you run your own Forgejo, or trust whoever runs it for you(say Codeberg), you don't have the MS privacy concerns.
_mikz · 1d ago
Don't forget the checkbox list! And linking to specific comments.
hliyan · 1d ago
Ten years ago, I worked in a small non-profit development shop that used Github issues for all project management. Checkboxes were used as both subtasks and ACs. Now that I think back, it worked really well. I don't think we even had Slack (we used Google Talk).
yearesadpeople · 1d ago
I've come to the same conclusion myself in the past 2 months (possibly driven by the AI / LLM age making me think even more in version control... writing those words make me wince). I have a small webapp too, which hoovers up issues I like to publish, from a repo with links on the web I like that I feel I would like to share (I believe the kids are calling this 'new age curation'). Its really quite a nice, organic, process. And its so odd its taken me 15 years of note apps - every other hot note app on the market - to realise this. Love Simon's articles, another nice insight
digdugdirk · 1d ago
Interesting, do you have a repo for that webapp? Sounds interesting, I'd like to check it out.
0xbadcafebee · 1d ago
The stuff that gets upvoted here...
Next up:
- "SQLite is almost the best notebook in the world"
- "Claude is almost the best notebook in the world"
- "An SQLite database containing only Markdown files in a Git repo self-hosted on an SD card in my Raspberry Pi served by a Node.js web app accessible via 56k modem is almost the best notebook in the world"
- "I created a startup to take the previous thing, reinvent GitHub Issues on top of it, call it AI Notes, and make almost the best notebook in the world, and it's now valued at $50B"
jtwaleson · 1d ago
Broken links with 404s have been called "a feature, not a bug" of the web, but I think that for internal documentation purposes, having consistent bi-directional links is a _very_ good thing to have.
bob1029 · 1d ago
For a typical organization, I think issues are still the most valuable part of the GitHub product stack. You can build very powerful project management abstractions on top of issues & labels.
If you have discipline to do a monorepo for the entire organization, your issue and code tabs are effectively the entire universe in one place. This is the only thing I've seen that can pull middle managers out of email - a single bucket that has everything of concern in it.
AstroJetson · 1d ago
I always wonder when I see all these best notebooks / note taking systems, etc. why people don't spin up any of the dozens of wiki servers.
You can put it online so you can get to it anywhere
You can run it off a stick to keep it with you (Tiddlywiki)
You can cross link pages to be able to collect things together
You can search. Some even have auto link builders so you can build a page of links to pages that match a category.
Some support Markup so you have formatting the way you want.
prepend · 1d ago
For me, I like to keep my life simple and not run servers unless I have to.
I haven’t run a wiki in years because markdown+git is good enough and simpler. I never really need anonymous edits.
lawgimenez · 1d ago
Almost the best notebook in the world, as long as there's no outage.
bgwalter · 1d ago
Except if you lose your 2FA one day before you need your plans. Or are all plans public?
Any local notebook, including pencil and paper, is better.
simonw · 1d ago
Pencil and paper is terrible because you can lose the paper. I want my notes backed up to the cloud, with backups replicated across at least two continents.
I've experimented with a bunch of tools for extracting copies of my issues and pulling them down locally, which is easy thanks to the GitHub API.
One that's particularly fun is a GitHub Actions setup that copies the full contents of each issue thread into a file in the repo itself. Then I can "git pull" to fetch my backup!
I still don't have any of them running on a cron at home but I might set that up some day.
Propelloni · 1d ago
So GitHub notes let me do what Zim Desktop Wiki let me do since 2005 without requiring internet.
But I get the OP, if you live in GitHub, it makes perfect sense.
bjornasm · 1d ago
Councidentally I just started using it as my todo list. Its really neat, especially when using githubs cli gh.
ravivyas · 1d ago
the notes app... there is none.
There will always be better apps, but you need to stick to an app with its flaws and limitations.
I have been through this rabbit hole... (paid for Bear, IAWriter, noteplan, FSnotes and probably more that I forget) and have just stuck to local markdown files and use VS code ... I even used LLMs to generate a tiny plugin to solve my micro needs.
paradox460 · 1d ago
Try it with ZenHub atop and it's so absurdly good it boggles the mind why anyone would use Jira
trenchgun · 1d ago
Well... not everybody uses github, and not every task in Jira is about code in version control
chrisjj · 1d ago
> Free and unlimited
Extremely doubtful. The fact you haven't yet hit limits does not mean no limits.
I take a lot of notes but I don't think I'm going to end up with the largest issue collection on GitHub.
I could always spin up a second repo or org if I do run out. I have my notes scattered across several hundred repos (and a hunch of orgs) already.
pier25 · 1d ago
Isn’t there something like Obsidian that uses GitHub instead?
pacifika · 1d ago
How’s the mobile experience?
aargh_aargh · 1d ago
Call me long in the tooth but it sounds to me like he's describing HTML (sans the backlinks part).
pmkary · 1d ago
This is insane!
simonw · 1d ago
That's why I wrote this. The idea of using GitHub Issues as an alternative to a dedicated notes app is decidedly non-obvious. I only just realized myself that I've been using it that way for years.
Unpopular opinion: developers obsess about the format being Markdown. This is completely backwards. This is a hammer-sees-nail thing. You should care more about the UX. And that somewhere, someone wrote a parser for the file format. That's it. You don't have to understand every byte of it. It need not be readable text and it need not be version-control friendly. It should be a joy to use, be powerful, be easy to annotate images and pdfs. I bet none of the Markdown solutions do this as elegantly as OneNote or alternatives.
simonw · 1d ago
The more time passes the more I care about my notes living in Markdown:
- I can transform it to other formats should I need to
- The GitHub variant of it (GFM) has feature like syntax highlighting for different languages which is incredibly useful
to me based on the kinds of notes I take
- Diffing clearly genuinely is a benefit, sometimes I want to know exactly what I changed!
- I can parse it with regular expressions, so useful information doesn't end up locked in some weird binary format
- LLMs are great at reading and writing it
These things may not matter to people who are not nerds. I'm a nerd!
SOLAR_FIELDS · 1d ago
Indeed, Markdown has become a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts: You want to use it because the toolchain and ecosystem surrounding the format is good, and the toolchain and ecosystem are good because everyone is using it.
0xbadcafebee · 1d ago
sir, this is HN, nobody wants to hear your rational practical ideas
My wife was skeptical at first, but the ability to add labels, search, etc made it really easy to work together and accomplish the tasked we needed in time for the wedding.
The hardest part was creating a bookmark that links directly to the issue tracker.
Oh, I’ve also used GitHub issues to organize all the boxes in my most recent move. I would create an issue and the description would list all the contents of a box. Then I would write the issue number on the box. After moving, I could search GitHub to find that one thing I was looking for and know what box it was in.
I've used LibraryThing for book boxes. Using smallish boxes (30-40 paperbacks each) so that carrying them is not a backbreaker. Scan the ISBN barcodes with phone app, fix old ones/whatever on web app, tag with box number written on at least two sides. No problems found so far.
Anyway, a fun solution but I think it’s more effort than I would have been willing to put in even if I would have appreciated the outcome.
Turns out one kitchen box got placed at the bottom of in a pile of book boxes in the living room.
If you unpack in a day, it's no big deal, but if you spent a week unpacking, you may find yourself having to eat something other than spaghetti for lunch, which is normally fine, but not when you really want spaghetti and the lack of spaghetti merely makes you more determined to find it.
In addition, I’m numbering the boxes, and when packing them keep a list mapping the numbers to what’s in each box. So when later searching for something, I know it should be in box number x. This can be helpful even years later when you don’t unpack all boxes.
Indeed, this is one of the biggest reasons I tracked this information to begin with.
Look at you! I still have boxes packed from my move a decade ago. :-)
I think you’re supposed to unpack 80% on day one, and keep the rest boxed up for the next move?
It only makes sense if you plan on unpacking over a year but if you unpack everything in a couple days then the system is not as useful.
This is a fun anecdote to share, but everywhere you can find people with absurd workflows that are better dealt with using proper tools. FWIW I used Org mode to organize a move to another country. I really cannot stand the idea of feeding my personal information to Microsoft.
But at my current job Gitlab could easily take over Youtrack, already took over Upsource.
I got 9,413 issues and 39,087 comments, for a grand total of 48,500 combined!
A lot of companies pay GitHub a lot of money to look after their source code and related artifacts. That's GitHub's business model. I don't think they would jeopardize that trust for the sake of training a model on private data.
I can only assume that companies paying for GitHub also pay for enhanced levels of privacy. Just because a company can pay GitHub not to train on their data, doesn’t mean they’re not going to train on your data that is being hosted for free. They are almost certainly crawling all free repos.
Maybe the non-training only applies if you pay protection money? But then you run into the whole if it's public there's nothing stopping some other AI that isn't MS from accessing the repository and training on it.
privacy needs to be verifiable (Apple has show this is possible with private cloud compute)
Related discussion:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36184948
How is it excellent when current logs could do with a bit of redesign doesn't find the comment (requires quotes to find it)
And then a tiny typo "current logs could" do with a bit of redesing also fails you
Their code search supports regular expressions now, which I find pretty incredible. https://github.blog/engineering/architecture-optimization/th...
Can you tell me where I've gone wrong?
This seems to work;
https://github.com/search?q=path%3A%2Fflake.nix%20go&type=co...Searching for "go" as a substring turns up a lot of false positives, but at least now I know the search is not flat out broken.
Others have mentioned this but if you want to keep this workflow, the best app I've found is Obsidian + Git Plugin. It works fantastically well on desktop though it does require a little work to get it working on iOS.
Heck, maybe I should just use code for notes. One plus would be web access with code server, since Obsidians only docker image that I know of uses VNC.
Anyone compared these two tools and have a decent write up? The biggest item which comes to mind would be referencing other notes and the features built on top of that?
Yes...always visible in the status bar. Fyi: https://github.com/Vinzent03/obsidian-git
If I want to keep this workflow why shouldn't I just continue using this same workflow?
"Automatic bidirectional sync between all devices" scares me. How does it deal with merge conflicts? How am I sure I'll be able to revert to a previous version? Can I see the full history of a file? I don't know, perhaps it'd be ok. I certainly wouldn't learn git just for note taking! But, I know how to use my hammer, so everything look like a nail...
I also store in a onedrive folder for automatic sync and backup in case I have a crash before I do a git commit.
https://github.com/cybersemics/em/
"em is a beautiful, minimalistic note-taking app for personal sensemaking."
I'm not trying this app.
The readme is more about the technical details of the code than the actual features of the app. Where do I go to see what this thing can actually do?
Do people expect me to run the program just to see if I want to run the program?
[1] https://github.com/cybersemics/em/wiki/Docs
I know this is common with projects that think Github is a replacement for a website, but I genuinely wonder how does it get so bad that a 5 year project with 9000 commits and 60 contributors doesn't have a single screenshot. Nothing personal or particular about this project specifically, just... the whole open source culture of dropping something on Github and not even doing the bare minimum to have other people get to know the project.
It feels like such a waste. It could be an amazing project but who is going to bother with it if they can't see what it looks like?
I like how future proof a folder of markdown files is. But I like the design, simplicity, and deep features for capture and media support offered in Apple Notes.
The more a markdown app supports extra stuff, the more proprietary it starts to feel, as any app to read it will also need to support those things.
A while back I told myself I was going to stick to Apple Notes, as going back and forth to other things is painful, and doing it proactively means more pain, rather than maybe having some pain in 10 years of the app goes away. However, where I am again, in the middle of a largely manual migration back to Obsidian for my folder of markdown files. I used an export, but the formatting is so bad that I need to clean up every single note.
Basic formatting is a plus for me. Although now notes has really advanced formatting and even sketching.
I just tried it and it still works:
But trouble free sync between machines, the ability to ‘scan’ documents, adding basic maths support, the ease… it always sucks me back in.
I wish it kept the date of creation and edits readily available, and supported markdown. But it’s damn close to what I want.
Why can’t Apple Mail do search as well as notes?
Or neovim with FzfLua (on laptop)
This makes every app that saves into iCloud files behave like Notes, i.e. work offline with automatic online sync.
But ~ 2 years ago I switched to Obsidian for that
Eventually I event started used Obsidian for my project management, and ditched GitHub Issues / GitHub Projects
With caveats, that I use that for the greenfield project with lots of unstructured exploration + AI agents for keeping design docs and figuring out detailed tasks
For the established and legacy projects, I would probably use GitHub Issues for bugs, enhancement requests. And GitHub Projects for all reactive work (support, ops, bugs, etc.)
Lastly, I disagree that it's "almost the best notebook in the world". It my might be a best ticketing system or a note taking system, but not a notebook in the sense of Jupyter or LiveBook (but nothing stopping them to make code blocks executable[1], and even add some LLMs).
Also it's easy overwrite the content of the issue, even by a single person working from different tabs (at least that was the case in the past).
---
1. GitHub Blocks
https://blocks.githubnext.com/
I don't want to risk my notes on a configuration error or billing mishap.
For example, stuff like this could happen: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23832437
Wouldn't hosting my own private notes on there be against the spirit of what they're trying to achieve?
I have no problem at all freeloading off GitHub!
* The ability to write an issue summary separate from comments. When you are debugging some hairy bug, some manager doesn't really want to wade through all the comments to get an idea; an editable summary at the very top of the page communicates high-level points to stakeholders while others continue to comment on details. People work around this by editing the initial comment of the issue but it's better if there's something more dedicated.
* Sophisticated access control. More than once when someone writes a bug report they are referring to a bug experienced by a single user. For user privacy reasons there needs to be a per-issue permission system to restrict access beyond the permission implied by the repo.
* The ability to add personal notes to an issue without publishing it. Whether it's a draft form of a comment or something else, it gets rid of the need to maintain your own notes.
It wouldn’t be too hard to add that with a 3rd party plugin. You could set an event hook to run through the comments, and add it to the top comment.
For bonus points, you could use an LLM to summarise. Every company loves a bit of AI these days, so your manager can gloat with his manager buddies that you now have AI-powered issue tracking.
2. That sounds like an anti-pattern to me. There shouldn’t be PII in your dev issue tracking system.
There problem here isn’t RBAC, it’s the workflow. If you’re in a situation where you need to make notes of sensitive information then you should store that in the same data store as the source information (eg Salesforce, et al). And I say this as someone who hates Salesforce.
3. I’ve not seen this feature in any issue tracker. Sounds like a nice feature but I wouldn’t have thought it as essential.
Then how do you track such issues? I'll give you a real example I've experienced: a high-value customer writes to support and complains that his UI is broken. None of the other people's UIs are broken. Do you not use the issue tracking system just because you need to get that customer's private settings and PII in order to debug the bug?
It's common to require PII to be stored elsewhere, but people will still make mistakes and copy paste PII for convenience. In the end isn't it better for your issue tracking system to be flexible enough to store PII?
> It's common to require PII to be stored elsewhere, but people will still make mistakes and copy paste PII for convenience.
That’s a training problem.
And It’s also common for people to fuck up RBAC. The latter is a harder problem to fix with training than teaching them to keep PII out of issue tracking systems.
> In the end isn't it better for your issue tracking system to be flexible enough to store PII?
I’ve worked in some very sensitive domains. They managed just fine keeping customer data out of the issue tracking systems.
If training is such a problem, I don't understand why we solve the problem by obviating such training and make the issue tracking system an acceptable storage medium for PII?
I would hope this will soon be written by AI automatically; summing up high-level points in an issue discussion seems like a perfect task for an LLM.
Here's an example where I condensed 50+ comments (accumulated over a year and a half!) into a summary comment and added it to the thread: https://github.com/simonw/sqlite-chronicle/issues/7#issuecom...
I created the summary like this:
The saving grace for now seems to be that Microsoft sees the "Advanced" PM tools in GitHub as value adds and is either rolling them out slowly to charge "Preview Customers" for as long as possible for that for that feature before making it public and/or putting them into GitHub pricing tiers such as "If you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it" and "Offer you cannot afford to refuse".
Last week, Microsoft cut off the email account of the chief prosecutor of the international criminal court, after being ordered to do so by the Trump administration. This is merely a week or two after Microsoft did a big PR campaign, telling the European Union how they were to stand up against this administration if the need arises. The irony!
Trump isn't hiding his opinion about the EU. What's stopping him from ordering Microsoft to block the EU from accessing github one day? Right now: Nothing at all. Think about how it would impact your business and open source software in general. We must not put all our eggs in a single basket.
I’m responding more to the comment that it’s extra steps. It’s clearly not as good a solution as obsidian, but there are no extra steps for it being accessible over the web or to all your devices - not just those for the devices built in cloud provider.
I think GitHub/gitlab issues is totally viable. Obsidian/Logseq too.
Or just use GitHub/gitlab issues.
(I wouldn’t say Obsidian is perfect, but so far I haven’t found any note-taking application that I like more.)
Then for unlimited collaborators in 2020: https://docs.github.com/en/get-started/learning-about-github...
Granted, you do have to install it versus using the default editor that comes with your operating system, so that is an extra step. But most people don't use the builtin editors from their OS anyway.
I'm thinking, host it locally and just let one drive act as back up for the mark down files it produces?
[0]: https://quartz.jzhao.xyz/
[1]: https://quartz.jzhao.xyz/hosting#gitlab-pages
I knew about using just git, but having Windows, Linux, macOS, iOS and Android, it was just way easier to use this solution instead of fighting with git-like apps for each OS.
* It doesn't extract the title from the issue on bare linkes, instead the url will become something like: <group>/<repo>#15 Which isn't as nice. So issue #15 in repo tootie/mynotes would look like: tootie/mynotes#15
* It also doesn't do offline sync.
I think that's the only thing it doesn't do. I use Git Touch on iOS and it seems decent enough, you can get to issues and update them, etc.
The bonus is, assuming you run your own Forgejo, or trust whoever runs it for you(say Codeberg), you don't have the MS privacy concerns.
Next up:
If you have discipline to do a monorepo for the entire organization, your issue and code tabs are effectively the entire universe in one place. This is the only thing I've seen that can pull middle managers out of email - a single bucket that has everything of concern in it.
You can put it online so you can get to it anywhere
You can run it off a stick to keep it with you (Tiddlywiki)
You can cross link pages to be able to collect things together
You can search. Some even have auto link builders so you can build a page of links to pages that match a category.
Some support Markup so you have formatting the way you want.
I haven’t run a wiki in years because markdown+git is good enough and simpler. I never really need anonymous edits.
Any local notebook, including pencil and paper, is better.
I've experimented with a bunch of tools for extracting copies of my issues and pulling them down locally, which is easy thanks to the GitHub API.
One that's particularly fun is a GitHub Actions setup that copies the full contents of each issue thread into a file in the repo itself. Then I can "git pull" to fetch my backup!
I still don't have any of them running on a cron at home but I might set that up some day.
But I get the OP, if you live in GitHub, it makes perfect sense.
There will always be better apps, but you need to stick to an app with its flaws and limitations.
I have been through this rabbit hole... (paid for Bear, IAWriter, noteplan, FSnotes and probably more that I forget) and have just stuck to local markdown files and use VS code ... I even used LLMs to generate a tiny plugin to solve my micro needs.
Extremely doubtful. The fact you haven't yet hit limits does not mean no limits.
Nor does the fact the provider claims unlimited.
I take a lot of notes but I don't think I'm going to end up with the largest issue collection on GitHub.
I could always spin up a second repo or org if I do run out. I have my notes scattered across several hundred repos (and a hunch of orgs) already.
https://github.com/git-bug/git-bug
https://github.com/dspinellis/git-issue
- I can transform it to other formats should I need to
- The GitHub variant of it (GFM) has feature like syntax highlighting for different languages which is incredibly useful to me based on the kinds of notes I take
- Diffing clearly genuinely is a benefit, sometimes I want to know exactly what I changed!
- I can parse it with regular expressions, so useful information doesn't end up locked in some weird binary format
- LLMs are great at reading and writing it
These things may not matter to people who are not nerds. I'm a nerd!