This is a breath of fresh air. Modern pick up trucks post-2017 are giant vehicles with high danger to pedestrians. They are often touted as off road capable with high utility, and I see them in pristine condition on city streets hauling a totality of one human.
> They are often touted as off road capable with high utility, and I see them in pristine condition on city streets
When I was off-roading and traveling a lot of dirt trails with my truck I would also wash it, wax it, and keep it in pristine condition when I got back home.
What did you expect? That we’d leave the mud on it forever, never wash it, and all of the side panels would be bashed in? If you’d climb under the truck (as I do for oil changes) you could see a lot of scrapes and dings from rocks, but I avoid damaging the side and front because that’s very expensive to repair.
Anyway, most of the trucks sold today aren’t sold in the off-road trim. They’re sold with features like lower clearance air dams up front for better fuel economy, on-road tires for better road noise and fuel economy, and commonly in 2WD trims. A new F150 can get 25mpg on the freeway even without the hybrid option.
I work remote so my truck isn’t used for commutes. I frequently haul things in the bed. I off road with friends.
Yet that doesn’t stop some people from making snide remarks about driving a truck. Some people love being angry at truck drivers and imagining they’re all just making irrational choices. They won’t be happy until we’re driving to Home Depot or UHaul every other weekend to rent a truck or trailer instead of parking one in our driveways.
It doesn’t stop them from calling me up and asking for help moving furniture when they need it, though. :)
rco8786 · 19m ago
> That we’d leave the mud on it forever, never wash it, and all of the side panels would be bashed in?
That's exactly how we always did it growing up.
esskay · 12m ago
> A new F150 can get 25mpg on the freeway even without the hybrid option.
As a non-American it's super weird that this is considered a good thing. That'd be considered utterly atrocious in most parts of the developed world.
I completely get that a truck is absolutely the best tool for the job for many people. But it's pretty obvious the OP was pointing out the people who own a truck and use it to get from home to their desk job.
01100011 · 31m ago
People addicted to online forums love to comment and upvote posts which trash talk trucks. People who own and enjoy trucks are busy leading fun and productive lives and can't be bothered to waste their time with online arguments.
SilverElfin · 2h ago
> I see them in pristine condition on city streets hauling a totality of one human.
It’s about having one vehicle that can do it all. Maybe you’re noticing when there’s one human but you don’t really know how else that person is using the vehicle at other times. Trucks can haul people, things, do road trips, etc. pretty well.
(Americans buy trucks out of emotion and cosplay, not realized utility and rational TCO, based on the evidence and data)
Ray20 · 39m ago
>based on the evidence and data
>Evidence and data show that cake taste better than bread, why are they starving? Let them eat cake
I really wonder what kind of world people live in who write such articles and what kind of world people live in who seriously read them. It's hard to believe that they live among us, there must be some separate island in the ocean or something like that where they can write their articles in complete isolation from the rest of the world.
toomuchtodo · 37m ago
Ehh, vehicle affordability rapidly accelerating away as the middle class evaporates solves the problem if people can’t make financially rational choices themselves. As of this comment, the average price of a new full-size pickup truck is around $64,000, while the average price of a new mid-size pickup truck is about $42,690. This is before tariff impacts are baked in. Doesn’t include operating costs (fuel, insurance, maintenance), putting monthly payments around $1k/month (at least). Let them drive studio apartments around I suppose, if they can get financed and not repo’d in the near term.
Would you cry for me if I wanted a Lambo but couldn’t afford it? You would not. This is different? Everyone is entitled to wildly conspicuous consumption? I argue no.
Ray20 · 15m ago
>affordability rapidly accelerating away as the middle class evaporates solves the problem
But that complete bs. Vehicle affordability is not in any danger, average price of a new pickus trucks depends on the amount of money the population has. Even if the middle class completely disappears, people will just drive cheaper pickups.
>Would you cry for me if I wanted a Lambo but couldn’t afford it?
But they could. And that the reason why "the average price of a new full-size pickup truck is around $64,000"
monkeyelite · 29m ago
> Americans buy trucks out of emotion and cosplay,
You don't need anything besides tent and food!
Every person buys almost everything for emotion.
Aurornis · 35m ago
> Americans buy trucks out of emotion and cosplay
This is a hilarious take for anyone who has spent any time living outside of a big city.
Yes, there are some people who buy trucks because they want one but don’t actually use the truck features.
Generalizing to “Americans are cosplaying” is just trolling.
toomuchtodo · 30m ago
Study Claims That Most Pickup Truck Owners Don’t Actually Use Them For Truck Stuff - September 2023
From that own study it shows more than half are using it at least “occasionally” for “hauling”.
I’d like to see the study on what percentage of people use all 4 seats in their car so you can dunk on people who buy 4 seaters next.
giraffe_lady · 22m ago
I live in a big city and two children under 10 have been killed by large pickup trucks within a half mile of my home in the last five years. Two that I know of anyway, because I'm acquainted with the families.
kortilla · 20m ago
This is one of the dumbest takes I’ve seen on trucks. It attacks a straw man.
If you buy something for one of its features and don’t use the others, it doesn’t have anything to do with cosplay.
This is like saying people who buy electric cars should just buy race car driver costumes instead. Unbridled ignorance.
amluto · 1h ago
A lot of modern “trucks” are pretty crappy for actually hauling anything. A few months ago I had the pleasure of loading some furniture into an Escalade. The outside is huge, but the inside is remarkably small. The height of the interior floor is also ridiculous, so it’s extra difficult to lift anything into the vehicle. I don’t think most full size pickups are a lot better.
Also, check out the underside of most of these monster vehicles. The approach, breakover, and departure angles may be awesome, but that’s only because the definitions assume uniform height transverse to the driving direction. If you drive these things over any substantial bump that the wheels don’t go over, the differential will bottom out. Oops. This means that, for many practical purposes, the height of the vehicle and the absurd suspensions don’t buy nearly as much capability as they might appear to.
matwood · 1h ago
I wouldn’t consider an Escalade a truck, just a luxury SUV. A Hilux/Tacoma, Tundra or F150 are trucks. And they pretty capable of doing all the things. My Tundra might be one of the best cars I ever owned.
rco8786 · 18m ago
> Maybe you’re noticing when there’s one human but you don’t really know how else that person is using the vehicle at other times.
95% of big trucks I see on the road have one person in them and beyond my anecdotal experience we know statistically that most vehicle trips involve 1 person. It's not super hard to extrapolate from there.
I'm not even particularly "anti" truck, though I do think the increase in size and weight has gotten totally ridiculous.
bix6 · 2h ago
Except that one vehicle is completely incompetent for its primary use 99% of the time :)
culi · 1h ago
In a sane society "knowing someone with a truck" is all you really need. In a highly individualistic society "having a truck just in case" is the dominant precept
amelius · 1h ago
In most places in the 1st world you can rent a truck if you need one *
For other times, use a car.
* a truck is just a car that misses a roof over the back part of it
bArray · 29m ago
> * a truck is just a car that misses a roof over the back part of it
Respectfully, a truck is not just a car missing the back part of it. It often has a lot more power, is lifted, has off-road springs, larger wheels, low and high speed gear box, roll cage for the front cabin, raised air intake - the list goes on.
Most people, though, do just need a car with a removable back.
Ray20 · 32m ago
>In a sane society "knowing someone with a truck" is all you really need.
Yes, yes, we all know. "You'll own nothing and be happy". Fewer and fewer people believe you.
SilverElfin · 1h ago
You don’t know that. You’re making assumptions. But even if that were true, so what? Maybe it is important to that person’s quality of life to have the truck for weekend adventures or chores.
stouset · 1h ago
If this were the case, you’d see more trucks with wear and tear on them and fewer with five years in and pristine paint jobs. Most people buy trucks as a lifestyle choice, not as a practical one.
That’s not to say there aren’t real uses for trucks, or people who use them for their designed purpose.
That’s also not to say people should be required to purchase only vehicles that meet their basic transportation requirements. People drive sports cars even without ever going out to a track.
Trucks (and full-size SUVs) specifically push some pretty crappy externalities onto other road users, so it’s not exactly crazy to be annoyed with people who buy and drive big trucks a personality trait.
Aurornis · 31m ago
> If this were the case, you’d see more trucks with wear and tear on them and fewer with five years in and pristine paint jobs.
You can tell how few people in this thread have any idea how light off roading or hauling works.
Driving your truck down a dirt road or putting something in the back of it doesn’t destroy the paint job. You can have a work truck and keep it nice.
cosmic_cheese · 47m ago
Yep. Trucks that actually get used as trucks look like it with dings, scratches, and scuffs because they’re tools, not toys.
Ironically they’re also often old small models that owners have been keeping running forever because they’re cheap to fix, practical, and easy to park unlike their embiggened modern counterparts.
SilverElfin · 23m ago
> Trucks that actually get used as trucks look like it with dings, scratches, and scuffs because they’re tools, not toys.
Not really. Lots of people use trucks and keep them in pristine condition too. Beds have liners now to keep them looking new. And you aren’t getting random dings on the outside unless you drive into things.
cosmic_cheese · 16m ago
The amount of effort required to keep them pristine scales with the quantity and intensity of the work performed, no? The most serious truck drivers probably aren’t going to have time to buff out every little mark when it’s going to get covered in them again on the job tomorrow.
kortilla · 12m ago
>If this were the case, you’d see more trucks with wear and tear on them and fewer with five years in and pristine paint jobs. Most people buy trucks as a lifestyle choice, not as a practical one.
No you wouldn’t. Off-roading, hauling things, and towing trailers does not require destroying the finish or exterior of the truck in any way.
bix6 · 1h ago
I do know that because I see the same trucks driving around my neighborhood with Jerry cans and recovery boards 7 days of the week!
Best case you’re looking at 28.5% weekend utilization which isn’t that bad, much better than the 1% I joked with, but how many people do you know taking an offroad adventure every single weekend?
So what? Yeah I don’t really care. It’s mostly hilarious watching them try to park.
SilverElfin · 50m ago
Does it have to be an off road adventure specifically? I feel like most people will want to get two vehicles in their family that can do many things, since that’s what they have room for, rather than more. A truck could be used for off road stuff but it could also be used for taking kids and gear to their games, or for a weekend camping trip, or just for commuting. It can do whatever you need without needing to rent a different vehicle or borrow from a friend or whatever. That’s peace of mind and flexibility. I don’t even own one but I do appreciate that aspect.
stn8188 · 32m ago
The other day, I was just remarking how my minivan makes a better pickup than most pickups for most tasks. For years I've wanted to get another truck (had an old Dakota that I had to sell when kid #3 was on the way). Practicality reigns, though, and I'm extremely satisfied with the usability of the van.
stouset · 1h ago
> Trucks can haul people, things, do road trips, etc. pretty well.
Yes, as can most vehicles?
SilverElfin · 53m ago
Not to the same ability. Sedans and mid size SUVs have far less space, and also less ground height. If you’re traveling on gravel roads or camping, most sedans and smaller SUVs aren’t ideal. If you have kids, space fills up quickly even for small trips. If you’re moving something larger (like drywall or a TV) it may not fit at all in a smaller vehicle. Even most full size SUVs also have less space than a full size truck (even one that isn’t one of the larger models).
fumar · 37m ago
The argument Telo makes is that you can have high utility in a smaller vehicle designed well. I was my own GC for a site-built home and sub contracted out many parts of it. I did it while owning a 2 door Mini SE. Only twice did I need to rent truck from my local Home Depot to haul some unwieldy and heavy debris. Most stores will deliver what you need (lumber, large pipes, insulation, etc) because consumer trucks are rarely large enough. I would not have been able to load any significant amount of lumber into an F250. That leaves large vehicles for recreation or family space. I hope car manufacturers rethink vehicle packaging now that EV motors and batteries allow for different confirmations like putting the motor in the wheel hub.
And, the sub contractors - the ones doing the work (immigrants) - they had a wide variety of vehicles. I took note that some had Camrys, Prius, old Golfs, small picks ups like Rangers, and some older mid size trucks that were visually heavily used. Else, they used commercial trucks or vans. When did I see the prestigious full cab F150s or Silverado RTs? When I originally interviewed GCs which is when I noticed they drove their clean and new trucks.
gdudeman · 37m ago
The vast majority of dirt roads are fine. I put hundreds of miles on my 1996 Honda Civic hatchback in the Cascades with no problems many years ago.
If the road existed in the 1990s, it's quite likely accessible by a mid-size SUV. Similarly, if families of 4 could go camping with cars from 1950-2000, you can today as well. In fact, you can get more compact tents, etc. today.
Trucks and huge SUVs come in handy if you want to bring lots of modern toys like gigantic prestige coolers and 4x4s.
lo_zamoyski · 38m ago
Let’s not play this game.
The main objection is the buffoonish size. Look at trucks in the 1990s and compare the size.
There is absolutely an element of clownish machismo involved.
Marazan · 2h ago
The typical number of times an American non work truck is used to haul a load each year is zero. Same for using it's bed capacity.
Aurornis · 29m ago
> The typical number of times an American non work truck is used to haul a load each year is zero.
If you specifically exclude work trucks and define “haul a load” as filling up the bed with loose dirt or gravel or something then I could believe this.
I haven’t put a cubic yard of anything in my truck bed this year but hauling a cubic yard of anything is a rare occurrence for someone who isn’t doing landscaping.
But you have to really stretch the definitions if you believe that people never put anything in the bed to haul.
culi · 1h ago
Yes this has actually been studied. Though I don't have a link on hand I remember the numbers being quite stark
freshtake · 1h ago
I don't think this generalization is quite fair. I'm sure this is true for some folks and their social circles, but for those of us who engineer and know our way around a Home Depot, the capacity is a game changer. I used to have to rent or borrow trucks for my projects.
Not to mention Christmas trees, moving, helping friends out, etc.
monkeyelite · 30m ago
those are the trucks that people who buy trucks like. This truck is designed to appeal to people who don't buy trucks.
kortilla · 23m ago
>They are often touted as off road capable with high utility, and I see them in pristine condition on city streets hauling a totality of one human.
If you off-road with a truck and keep it clean afterwards, this is exactly what it looks like on the street.
jonplackett · 2h ago
I wonder what this is like for driver safety though - not a lot of crumple zone in that nose!
kimixa · 2h ago
Not as much crumple zone as you might think in a "traditional" truck if most of the space is full of a solid metal block
disqard · 1h ago
You're both right!
I noticed the lack of a "crumple zone" the instant I saw the image.
...and a moment later, I also realized it's usually a solid engine block that sits there. I shudder to think of what actually happens when that zone "crumples".
Back to the Telo MT1, it's great that they redesigned it from the ground up, around it being an EV -- it's like the Phelps Tractor having reins, and then somebody asking "why does it need to have reins if there's no horse?"
Spooky23 · 1h ago
Don't shudder, learn about it.
The engine is designed to move based on the design of the frame rails and mounts -- it is pushed under the passenger compartment, absorbing and deflecting more energy.
I'm sure the Telo is designed to modern standards and would perform similarly. I'd be more worried about expensive damage to the vehicle in less personally dangerous collisions.
gdudeman · 35m ago
This would be my concern. A fender bender hits the wheels on this thing and suddenly you're doing major surgery to repair it.
apparent · 1h ago
> ...and a moment later, I also realized it's usually a solid engine block that sits there. I shudder to think of what actually happens when that zone "crumples".
I believe the engine drops down and the rest crumples inward, at least in theory.
spiderfarmer · 1h ago
Decades of research, innovation, crash tests and rule changes have been put into improving safety in head on collisions. It’s not like you’re the first who wonders what will happen with engine block. It’s designed to go down.
Although I don’t know about American trucks. I think they are meant to wreak havoc on every single person involved.
cjblomqvist · 20m ago
My neighbour designs the crumble zone on Volvo's heavy duty trucks. They at least spend a shit ton of effort (continuous, multi-decade) on making anything hit by the truck having as little effect as possible (at least).
Quite a challenge with heavy duty trucks shipping tens of tons of stuff, but anyway.
api · 3h ago
Vehicular elephantiasis is largely the result of perverse incentives from emission regulation. Make something big enough and it fits into different more lax categories. The way we do emission and mileage standards might do more harm than good unless you’re an oil company.
mitthrowaway2 · 2h ago
Maybe, but it's clearly worked it's way into fashions as well. The F-150 lightning doesn't have to worry about emissions categories, but it's just as elephantine as the rest, including a child-killing vision-obstructing front hood and grille whose only purpose is to enclose a frunk.
dyauspitr · 2h ago
I like that’s the lightning is giant. I don’t particularly like small, low to the ground vehicles.
arijun · 1h ago
Your comfort shouldn’t outweigh the safety of pedestrians. There is a reason those cars do not pass regulations in Europe.
benregenspan · 1h ago
But why is that? Is there any chance it's at least partly to protect yourself from everyone else in giant cars?
renewiltord · 1h ago
I have a Subaru Forester. When I drive a sedan everyone shines their headlamps into my face. I parked my Forester behind a sedan and drove back and forth. My lights were not in their cabin.
So other people drive in a way that is not compatible with my driving because I don’t want headlamps in my cabin. Occasionally there’s a lifted truck behind me and it brightens my cabin.
In those moments I fantasize about placing retroreflectors all over my rear seat headrests but then I pull over and let them past and the moment passes.
Besides, a HN truism is “Yield to gross tonnage”. I liked that. It makes sense that HN users who believe that if you’re big others should get out of the way also get large cars.
“The cemeteries are full of people with right of way” so smaller vehicles should get out of the way of larger vehicles or risk death. It’s a good lesson. Can’t say it’s false.
MagnumOpus · 41m ago
It is obviously true.
What is also obviously true is that road damage scales with the fourth power of vehicle mass, and that therefore vehicle taxation should increase at a similar power, so that the drivers of the 3-tonne trucknutted Canyoneros stop freeloading on the community.
mitthrowaway2 · 1h ago
I guess there should be rules about the height of headlights. It seems like exactly the sort of safety and compatibility problem that standards exist to solve.
renewiltord · 1h ago
US mainstream belief is that standards can be enforced at factory but no laws should be enforced on individuals. I act in that ecosystem. Not worsening it, but not sacrificing myself to it.
masklinn · 1h ago
… and that’s why I bought a Marauder MPV to go get groceries.
cosmic_cheese · 42m ago
Nothing less than a decommissioned Abrams tank will do for taking little Billy to school!
adastra22 · 3h ago
Also the arms race of collision survivablity. I have no interest in driving a big truck, but with all the other big trucks out there I’m seriously tempted just for my own safety…
Spooky23 · 1h ago
The big trucks are not evaluated for safety to the same standard as other vehicles. They aren't rigged with exploding gas tanks anymore, but the feeling of safety is mostly psychological.
pantalaimon · 3h ago
The only logical next step is the mini-tank
masklinn · 2h ago
I've been looking at the GTK Boxer since it was first announced. The modularity means you can bring the kids to school then swap the rear module for one more suited to transporting raw materials, you just need a garage equipped with a 15t crane to do the swap at home in just a few minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn_WblYc4xk
No comments yet
miningape · 2h ago
Just wait until 2050 when we all have our own killdozers [1].
The killdozers will all be self driving with no passengers and we will be the target. This will surely come to pass long before 2050.
sneak · 32m ago
It isn’t an arms race, as being in those bigger vehicles only feels more safe; it isn’t actually any safer.
kube-system · 2h ago
Maybe we’ll see that change if the recent CAFE changes stick. I think the big bill passed recently set CAFE fines to zero.
iambateman · 2h ago
I think that’s part of it, but also about 30% of men apparently have a nearly-unlimited budget for buying the biggest truck.
sneak · 33m ago
This is the originally unintended side effect of regulation that applies to cars.
Americans generally don’t want tiny vehicles. The option that leaves them is trucks and, increasingly, SUVs.
ujkhsjkdhf234 · 18m ago
I want a tiny car. The problem is that road design is unsafe so people buy bigger cars so they are safer when they get into an accident. I've seen the aftermath of a Chrysler Fiat getting into a collision with an SUV and lets just say the Fiat driver had much worse day than the SUV driver.
65 · 2h ago
You could have written this exact comment on the Slate Truck announcement post.
carlosjobim · 2h ago
You only need a Pentium 3 machine to read and write on Hacker News.
topato · 2h ago
I don't get it, is the joke, 'stating the obvious'?
carlosjobim · 2h ago
Why is it wrong to have a powerful vehicle if you don't always use it for tasks demanding that power, but it's okay to have a surplus of power for low-demanding computing tasks?
crote · 1h ago
Same reason I don't want to have dinner in a restaurant next to someone trying to cut their steak with a chainsaw: at best they are being incredibly obnoxious, at worst they are going to maim me. Just because it is better for your once-a-month weekend lumberjack trip with the boys doesn't mean it is an appropriate one-size-fits-all cutting tool for day-to-day use.
Contrast that with someone having a needlessly powerful computer. How does that impact the rest of the world? Not at all, it only impacts the owner's wallet. Someone's needlessly-powerful computer has never killed a child, or taken up four spots in public. Heck, it'll even downclock when idle, so there isn't even any extra power use to be worried about!
scubbo · 2h ago
Because accomplishing the same task with a more powerful (i.e. larger) vehicle is a) more polluting, and b) more dangerous for other road users; two things that are not true for a surplus of computing power.
monkeyelite · 28m ago
Are you sure your house is the minimum you need? It's looking a little bit nicer and more spacious than others.
uncletaco · 1h ago
Because by and large the apps and programs you are running on your computer requires lots of resources just to open and allow you to do your low-demanding tasks.
sneak · 28m ago
Having a CPU sitting idle doesn’t cause massive externalities.
daymanstep · 2h ago
You can do it with a raspberry pi.
rambambram · 2h ago
Did that for a couple of years. RPi4 as my daily driver (including image creation and video editing).
The things you listed are _why_ people buy them. If they wanted something smaller, they would go with a Toyota Tacoma or a Nissan Titan.
cosmic_cheese · 31m ago
Even Tacomas are larger than they used to be. One day not too long ago when I was running errands I came across and early 2000s Tacoma (before they got bumped up to midsize trucks) and was almost dumbfounded, because it’d been so long since I’d seen a truck that size. It’s a great size, but nobody makes them like that any more.
I’d like a small truck for DIY house projects in a suburb, but even the “small” Ford Maverick is nearly a foot longer than a 2000 Tacoma and the 2025 Tacoma is about two feet longer, both of which would be awkward to park and maneuver on the tight streets around here. Their increased height is dangeorus with all the kids running around, too. So, well, I don’t have a truck.
The Telo and maybe Slate are the first two modern trucks that I could realistically consider. Hoping for an R3T that’s sized similarly to Rivian’s upcoming R3 (which is comparable in size to a VW Golf) but that’s probably not going to happen.
jama211 · 2h ago
People by and large don’t really know what they want, they purchase based on vibes and manipulation. If people in general really wanted these trucks they’d be more popular outside of America. The truck has been a boiled frog, slowly growing in size and people haven’t realised it. Also Americans in general have a bit of a cultural issue with ego, individualism and all that, which doesn’t help.
neogodless · 26m ago
Titan is full-sized. You mean the Nissan Frontier.
Still those have basically caught up with full-sized vehicles from ~15 years ago..
dyauspitr · 2h ago
I find no problems with them being giant. I drive a F150 Lightning and since it all electric I love that it’s big.
baby_souffle · 3h ago
I spoke to them a lot at OpenSauce.
- The body panels were composite but they want to go to stamped metal for production.
- It's based off of the subaru ascent; at least most of the frame and suspension is.
- NMC chemistry, didn't get an OEM name for the actual cell/pouch though.
- Mostly off the shelf Bosch power-train components. Will be interesting to see a tear-down once they're for sale.
- No commitment on how "open" the vehicle will be to modifications. They have designed in attachment points for upgrades but it didn't seem to be anywhere as extensive as what Slate is doing. This makes some sense; they have a more "finished" vision where Slate is intentionally taking the "our vision is for you to buy the canvas from us and then make it your own" approach.
On that last point, I don't think Slate has released anything substantial either w/r/t the CAN bus either. As far as I know, their plan is still a BYOD approach for the head-unit so here's hoping that it'll be relatively straight forward to interrogate the busses from an android or linux device. The Telo had a head-unit integrated so who knows how much control you'll have over the vehicle.
markbao · 2h ago
This is cool I guess but I don’t get why some of these electric car companies have to design cars that look like toys. Rivian and this. It looks like a golf cart with a flatbed. I think an electric kei truck would have a huge market in the US but the design needs some work to be taken seriously.
There’s something to be said for being distinctive, but you can do that while not looking silly (Lucid is a good example). And simply being a small electric truck is enough differentiation anyway
01100011 · 26m ago
I just want my 2000 Toyota Tacoma but with a small EV(0-60 in 10s is fine, 150hp is fine, 200mi range is fine).
rco8786 · 16m ago
Oh man I would scoop that up in a heartbeat.
rco8786 · 16m ago
The kei truck itself has a ridiculous toy-like design also though.
unethical_ban · 17m ago
This looks like a kei truck, who by definition looks like a toy.
Seriously though, it has the same shape and look of any kei I've seen. Like others, I wish for a 90s era Ford Ranger or Tacoma, but between safety requirements and capability demand from people that's probably not practical.
turnsout · 2h ago
To 99% of consumers in the US, kei trucks look like toys, so I'm not sure that's the best example.
Honestly, if you look at the truck market, it's dominated by masculine designs like the F-150. Arguably this has created a gap in the market for designs that are more compact and approachable. It may never be the majority, but TELO looks perfectly suited to address that niche.
markbao · 2h ago
Kei trucks are small but they look like a workhorse in a similar way to a classic Hilux giving them a respectability that I think this design lacks.
I agree there should be more approachable designs, just seems like this went way too far in the direction of toy-like
plantwallshoe · 15m ago
It doesn’t matter how capable, efficient, affordable, powerful, etc. the truck is. That’s not the point.
The point of a truck for 90% of American pickup truck drivers is that it signals to the world around them what team they’re on. This truck is a signal for the wrong team.
sheepscreek · 3h ago
I love the fantastic designs and form factors popping up in mini-EV truck/SUV space. My worry is for the business feasibility for these. Why isn’t Tesla making these? They have the supply chain and expertise to easily pull it off and they’d be such a big hit. People switching to them for light cargo would be a REAL contribution in cutting use of carbon.
I can think of one possibility. At Tesla’s scale, production becomes feasible only if they can produce X million units. This is because setting up production tooling, supply chain channels, and other associated costs is prohibitively expensive. Additionally, the demand for these vehicles will be relatively low until influential YouTubers in the construction, farming, and rural sectors become advocates and start promoting them.
In my opinion, electric vehicles (EVs) are perfectly suited for this task. They are ideal for transporting heavy items between nearby destinations, such as moving Home Depot supplies to a construction site or Costco products to a restaurant or store. A range of even 200 miles is practical for this use-case and keeps the cost low (MT1 is a beast by my standard).
For clarification, I am all for more competition. But I am also selfish and I really want this segment to become wildly successful . In any case, I really and truly hope they can make the business case work and be profitable/sustainable.
benzible · 1h ago
I don't think Tesla's judgement should be the litmus test. They have capacity to produce 250K Cybertrucks / year, currently on pace to sell < 20K and it's only going down from here.
jstummbillig · 1h ago
I kind of think it's cool that reality is configured in such that Cybertruck exists, but only in a very meta way. I lazy-think its dumb and is probably just bad focus from a company mission standpoint.
delabay · 58m ago
Sadly, trucks like these are like the automotive "small smartphone". At first it appears there is a large vocal market, especially if you read the comment section. Alas, nobody will buy it, just like nobody actually buys small smartphones.
girvo · 17m ago
Sadly true: and I’m one of those who walks their talk wrt. small phones. I don’t need a ute, though, so I drive a cupra born instead
unethical_ban · 16m ago
40k with 300hp and 350 mile range? This sounds pretty awesome imo.
notatoad · 1h ago
>My worry is for the business feasibility for these
hopefully the success of the ford maverick can allay some of this concern - i don't think anybody was really expecting it to be as successful as it has been, but it seems like there's actually pretty decent demand for a smaller truck.
rsync · 2h ago
"I love the fantastic designs and form factors popping up in mini-EV truck/SUV space ..."
Exterior designs.
The interior has no design - design and UI were given over to a touchscreen. Go look at the interior renderings to see for yourself ...
Jach · 2h ago
> Additionally, the demand for these vehicles will be relatively low until influential YouTubers in the construction, farming, and rural sectors become advocates and start promoting them.
This is a surprising claim to me. Can you point to any other vehicles (even something from John Deere or a competitor) whose demand significantly rose in a way directly attributable to influential youtubers in those niches, and which influencers in particular you think would be particularly influential?
timeon · 31m ago
> Why isn’t Tesla making these?
Like with most cars they have made it is because Tesla has no taste.
Dig1t · 2h ago
They have to solve a real problem for people hauling cargo, they don’t really do that as they currently exist. They get significantly worse range when hauling than a normal gas or diesel truck, their only benefit is making feel better about their carbon footprint.
I was legit considering getting an F150 lighting for a little while but when I saw how much your range decreases when towing something it became obvious that it’s not really practical. It’s just objectively worse at hauling than a gas car.
Hopefully we see more battery tech breakthroughs that make electric trucks viable work vehicles.
masklinn · 1h ago
It’s pretty complicated. The issue with hauling is that it craters your aerodynamics and explodes your rolling resistance, so you need massive battery capacity. Or to slow down, but most people don’t want to do that.
They are cheaper to run almost everywhere (depending on the cost of electricity versus gas of course). No breakthrough in battery technology needed for that.
dyauspitr · 1h ago
It is worse at hauling. I can get between 150 to 200 miles while towing my 4000 lb RV with my lightning. What’s nice though is I can get a full charge at my campsite for the night so I never really pay for transportation. Turns out 200 miles per day is good enough for cross country RVing.
For everyday driving, I pay about $8.50 for a “full tank” of charge that gets me around 300 miles. That’s about $100 worth of gas in an equivalent gas truck.
That’s being said I think the ideal truck would have about 2x-3x the current battery capacity of the extended range lightning.
Alive-in-2025 · 1h ago
The new huge GM EV & SUV trucks do have way more battery - and weight. The GM Silverado EV Work Truck is EPA 492 miles, tested at 530 by edmonds. So take the common rule of thumb, divide range by half or maybe a little more and you get about 250 miles of towing range. https://news.gm.com/home.detail.html/Pages/topic/us/en/2025/....
In a couple of recent youtube videos, "Aging Wheels" thoroughly tested a variety of trailers towed behind a variety of vehicles and then also added weight to the trailer to see the efficiency impact of towing a trailer with a lot more weight. They found a 4.3% efficiency drop by adding weight to max out the towing, compared to towing without the extra weight. Weight isn't what matters on towing impact, it's the wind resistance of the trailer that matters much more.
They did a long series of comparison drives (in the about 30 mins video) with different trailers and then loaded them with extra weight to see the impact. It was smaller than you expect. The video with all the tests is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmKf8smvGsA.
I heard about this on the batteries included podcast where they interview the author of the video above, and kind of give high level summary with some details, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGJv-xAqcTI.
Maken · 2h ago
But Tesla already did one of these. It's called Cybertruck.
Alive-in-2025 · 1h ago
The CT is a truck and it is electric, but it has some limitations, one being the range is not that great. And it has some weaknesses.
rsync · 2h ago
I immediately searched the site for interior pictures and had my pessimism confirmed ... it's a design-free interior with no physical controls.
At least they kept the stalks on the steering column ...
sockboy · 8m ago
Interesting to see how much the perception of trucks varies globally. For many, it’s about versatility and utility beyond just daily commuting. The off-road and hauling capabilities often get overlooked in city-centric debates.
numpad0 · 4h ago
> 152 in Length 73 in Width 66 in Height
This is 3860 x 1854 x 1676mm, or 14% x 25% x -16% bigger than Japanese Kei car specifications(3400 x 1480 x 2000mm max.) Closest match in features among Kei cars would be Daihatsu Hijet Deck Van, except that one is 465mm / 18" shorter that this having an awkwardly short 880mm / 35" long bed.
doctorpangloss · 31m ago
well, one thing you'll learn from their marketing is that Mini Coopers are kind of big
siva7 · 3h ago
It's aesthetically not pleasing in my eyes. They even have a comparison with ford trucks on their page and all i'm thinking is yeah i'd take that ford instantly over that thing.
I am glad to see EV companies doing something different, aesthetically. In this particular case I do not like it -- at all -- but I much prefer a high-variance aesthetic distribution to the genetic every-car-looks-the-same world we have now, sans a tiny few exceptions.
The side compartment under the bed / in front of the rear wheel is pretty cool too.
999900000999 · 1h ago
41k ?!
The entire point of the Slate truck is to try to come in under 20K or around it, and without the EV subsidies that's probably not going to happen.
apparent · 1h ago
When I scrolled quickly through the landing page looking for the price, I noticed it wasn't there and figured it would be expensive. I didn't think it would be this much though...
Jach · 2h ago
Still as ugly as last time it appeared on HN, it has none of the charm of a Kei truck. I wish any company would just take the old Ford Ranger designs (2011 and earlier) and make a truck on that. Or better yet, Ford themselves could redo the electric version of the Ranger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ranger_EV) from 25 years ago with modern tech but the same look.
programmertote · 1h ago
Looks good and a step in the right direction (speaking as someone who thinks the modern day trucks are getting too big for the danger of those driving alongside them on the roads).
I wonder though if the interior trim can be ordered without this felt-like material. I can easily see that being stained or dirty in a short period of time. I am sure there is.
One thing I have learned.
If you own a pick up like vehicle
You will be helping even people you barely know
to move. and your extended friends and family
whenever they buy something too big to fit in their car
ThinkBeat · 54m ago
This can fun a fun and practical vehicle,
and it has a lot nifty solutions,
and should serve sub(urban) life well.
but if you really need a pickup truck,
this cannot compare to a Tacoma
That said I dont think anyone buying a Tacoma
will be tempted by this vehicle, and I dont think
the buyers of the MT1 will be comparison checking
the Tacoma either.
Separate markets the way I see it,
as do they
""EV pickup for urban living and weekend adventuring""
So why the comparison?
kgoettler · 40m ago
In my experience (US), the Tacoma is often the first vehicle that comes to people’s minds when they think of a small pickup truck.
amacbride · 33m ago
Part of the problem, of course, is that the Tacoma is no longer even remotely small.
I really want a modern version of a mid-90s Tacoma.
devmor · 40m ago
> but if you really need a pickup truck, this cannot compare to a Tacoma
Can you elaborate? This has the same bed size, same crew capacity and greater horsepower than a tacoma.
jsight · 3h ago
People tend to focus on demand, but just getting vehicles like this into production at a profitable cost often turns out to be impossible.
It is a 10-15k/year product at best. How does an independent maker get that profitable at <$50k, despite all the costs of setting up a sales and service network?
graeber_28927 · 3h ago
On one hand I agree. It makes me sad but I'm skeptical they are going to make it.
On the other hand, electric cars seem to be relatively "easy" to build. Sure, Fisker went bankrupt, but Rivian seems to do sort of fine. Xiaomi even managed to build a car, and I actually saw one of them by chance charging next to me today.
Seems to me like a lot more newcomers succeed in getting cars built, than was and is the case with ICE cars.
doctorpangloss · 28m ago
most profit in autos is in personalization and financing, which in principle you can do at any scale, with whatever fixed costs. I believe these guys are building on top of a Subaru with vendor motors.
that said, the problem with these utilitarian vehicles is that they appeal to people who buy cars once every 20 years, whereas most of the industry is serving the very large, very abundant population of Americans buying 2 cars every 2 years
treetalker · 4h ago
The real question is whether it's compatible with standard truck nuts: if not, the Florida market will remain inaccessible.
api · 3h ago
I was thinking a while back about how you could roll coal in an EV. Maybe a huge Tesla coil throwing lightning everywhere would be analogous? Or a giant Jacob’s ladder?
maxerickson · 3h ago
Seems like the Cybertruck is sort of that.
Maybe a few people get some functionality out of the design.
derektank · 3h ago
Spark gap ozone generator
zikduruqe · 2h ago
... proceeds to throw harmonics from DC to daylight
At least the Fiat Multipla was a great car. It is filled to the brim with small features which improve the driving experience, and it is a miracle that it can fit six(!) people. It has a massive amount of storage space and great visibility, what's not to like?
Besides the way it looks, of course. But if you're inside a Multipla, at least you don't have to look at its exterior?
dvh · 2h ago
Fiat multipla - car so ugly that Michael Schumacher had to do a commercial for it.
zubiaur · 1h ago
They have a very strange presence. They are quite wide. All the proportions are odd. It catches one’s eye. I uggly-puppy like it.
jama211 · 2h ago
This isn’t a mini truck, it’s a truck. It’s just that the others are giant trucks.
chrisco255 · 2h ago
What's the tow capacity and range when towing? No 4WD either. It's not a truck it's a UTV.
iambateman · 2h ago
I’d love to drive something like this. Looking forward to these hitting the market!
nelsonic · 43m ago
Really hope enough people buy these new so that in a few years time I can get a second hand one. ;-)
> We're tired of oversized, impractical trucks designed for show over substance.
I wonder if Telo is attempting to define a new category. Substance in a truck, in my lived opinion, is about utility. Towing capacity, ruggedness, ability to go (very) off road. An electric power train shows promise, but is limited by infra.
If that’s not the target, then maybe it’s a different target, such as San Francisco residents where space is limited and a slight nod to utility is adequate.
Further down the peninsula, and specifically in the Santa Cruz mountains, this is less interesting. I can’t imagine this for outdoor (e.g. mountain biking) or project oriented (e.g. landscaping) people.
So back to the top: if they’re marketing substance over show, maybe they’re really marketing to people who desire show over substance.
Edit: let me also throw in my drive down to the bottom tip of Baja a few months ago. The roads were rough in places, and I definitely went off road to reach some interesting places. It reminded me of some rough terrain and roads in Wyoming and Oklahoma - truck states. Without big wheels and tough suspension - I wouldn’t take a Telo.
jcrawfordor · 4h ago
A tremendous portion of the truck market are people who live in urban to suburban areas and need to move things. For that audience, the ability to fit a 4x8' plywood sheet easily puts this ahead of a surprising number of conventional trucks on utility. The 2k lbs payload on the 2WD drive model is more than a Tacoma and some configurations of the F150, for example, popular models that also don't fit a 4x8 sheet without strapping it down over the cab or another awkward technique. It also lists a towing cap of 6,600 which is competitive with many production pickups.
There's a divide in needs between off-roading and moving things around, and this seems oriented in the moving things around direction. I can easily see it working for a landscaper in a suburban environment, for example, where the driving miles per day are really not that high and 6,600 is plenty for a typical landscaper's trailer.
From everything I've seen, true off-roading applications are a pretty small portion of the overall truck market, and one that many popular trucks right now are also poorly optimized for (popular 2WD configurations, middling clearances, etc).
numpad0 · 3h ago
> I wonder if Telo is attempting to define a new category.
It's a Kei truck. That's not a new thing. Online discourses categorizing Telo as one leads to people pointing out Kei are equipped with weaker engines for legal reasons, that doesn't matter. US finally started making its own Kei truck.
ColonelPhantom · 2h ago
I would say "kei" does pretty specifically refer to vehicles adhering to those Japanese regulations. I think "minitruck" or "compact truck" would be a better, more general name.
laurencerowe · 4h ago
What would be the limitation that prevents you from mountain biking? It seems to have a similar sized bed to a Tacoma?
I’m unsure why people think they need such big vehicles for outdoors sports. We drove thousands of miles around Europe with 4 kayaks on the roof of a Ford Fiesta. Or you can easily fit three mountain bikes on a rear bike rack.
dfee · 4h ago
I also used to throw my mountain bike on the back of my sports car! It was, in retrospect, ridiculous.
I’ve also seen a motorcyclist having a bike mounted on a hitch!
Optimization for tiny isn’t a factor in the big outdoors. Indeed, I see more people in Sprinter vans than Teslas by mountain biking hot spots. So it’s not about “could you”, it’s about comfort and practicality of anything / everything else you may want to do beyond just lugging a bike to a trail. Such as: the optionality to go truly off road - in the vehicle not on the bike.
esseph · 2h ago
Depends on what you're in to, but there's a HUGE amount of land in the US and a lot of lakes and mountains don't have paved roads to them.
(Check out Montana, Wyoming, Alaska, etc.)
garciasn · 4h ago
I need to tow a 5000lb boat 300 miles without charging and I need to fit 6 passengers. It needs to be $30K or less.
I realize Europeans have a much different understanding of distance and cargo needs; I do. But, 300 miles and 6 passengers is a pretty common requirement here in the US.
raddan · 4h ago
Why without charging? Are there time constraints?
I often find that I want to take a break after a couple hours of driving, and even when I drove a gas vehicle, those breaks would be 30-40 minutes long unless it was an exceptionally long day of driving. With a little planning I’ve found that I can do 90% of the trips in my EV that I used to do in my gas car. I probably can’t replicate the couple 1000-mile-in-one-day trips I did in my previous vehicle, but those experiences also made me not want to.
FWIW, in the last two years alone I have driven my EV from MA to Nova Scotia and back, MA to Iowa and back, MA to MD and back, and all over the eastern seaboard (trips to the Adirondacks, WV, etc). Lately I have not even had to plan anymore. It was surprising to discover that I could plug my car (a Bolt) into a GM charger in Indiana this summer and not even need to fiddle with an app. Things have improved dramatically for road trips in the last two years, and I have probably one of the slowest charging cars out there. Really, the only thing stopping me from buying an EV pickup is that I don’t want to pay that much for a vehicle with such an absurdly small bed. My Bolt can pull a small trailer just fine.
jebarker · 1h ago
I started looking at camping trailers recently to tow with my Rivian. I quickly went off the idea when I realized that each time I’d need to charge en-route I’d have to find somewhere to park the camper, unhitch, go charge, then do it all in reverse. That’s going to add at least 20 mins to each charging session. None of this is necessary if I were filling with gas. For typical places I go camping here in CO that could be two or three times per journey direction.
GiorgioG · 3h ago
Because he can tow 300 miles easily with a ICE vehicle, and he can fill up anywhere in 5 minutes or less. Once you can charge cars in 5 minutes or less, I doubt he’d have made that a requirement.
garciasn · 4h ago
Because I travel to places without charging infra.
laurencerowe · 3h ago
I was responding to someone worried about the practicality of carrying mountain bikes to the Santa Cruz mountains 50 miles from San Francisco.
I don't think it's possible to buy a new 6 passenger vehicle rated for towing 5000lb in the US for under $30K.
Europe allows towing with much smaller vehicles. There you can do 4400lb in a Golf and 4850lb in Passat though you might still struggle for 6 passengers for $30k new.
dfee · 3h ago
Well, you were responding to me, after I noted my excursions through Baja, the mountain west and Oklahoma.
Santa Cruz Mountain roads tend to be well paved. Though, large exceptions definitely exist! (E.g. Highland Way)
chipsa · 4h ago
No pickup will do that. Even crew cab pickups normally max out at 5 people (4 passengers), because there is no bench seat up front anymore. Even a Ford Maverick is $30k or so, and that won’t tow a 5000lb boat. Max listed towing is 4klb.
baby_souffle · 2h ago
> I need to tow a 5000lb boat 300 miles without charging and I need to fit 6 passengers. It needs to be $30K or less.
Then you need a used diesel pickup truck. 6 people is a stretch unless at least one of those is an infant or you have people on laps.
bastawhiz · 3h ago
> I need to tow a 5000lb boat 300 miles without charging
That's a 4-5 hour trip and you don't want to stop to charge for thirty minutes? One bathroom break or stop for food and you've already spent probably half of those 30m stopped anyway.
> fit 6 passengers
This truck does? It has a third row.
But I'm curious what truck you think will comfortably fit six passengers for under $30k. If the second row fits three people and the front row fits two passengers (and frankly, having a person ride in the middle of the front row is ridiculous), you only seat five passengers. Even if you count the driver as a passenger, at best you've got one uncomfortable occupant.
- Ram 1500 starts at 40k
- F150 starts at 38k
- Silverado 1500 starts at 37k
- Ford Superduty starts above 40k
- Sierra 1500 starts at 38k
And most of these are just bench seats in the front, not a third row.
k12sosse · 2h ago
Do the Ranger
bastawhiz · 2h ago
It's base MSRP is 33k and it only does five passengers
wpm · 3h ago
OK buy a different fucking vehicle then? Sorry this one isn't for you.
rossjudson · 38m ago
"I commute 400 miles each way to work, every day, towing my 5000 pound boat, fully equipped outdoor kitchen trailer/classroom, my home-schooled family of 6, 6 dogs, a portable sawmill, solar-powered game freezer + ammunition, and an extra trailer because I might have to go to home depot."
TulliusCicero · 4h ago
I'm American and this sounds really off. AFAIK pickups in the US typically have space for five passengers, not six. And good luck finding new pickups that can tow 5000 lbs under 30k; as a category, pickups have experienced quite a lot of price inflation, as I understand it.
garciasn · 4h ago
Right. What I’m saying is if you’re going to make a compact car with a bed, it better cost less than a pickup.
darknavi · 4h ago
The CEO pretty clearly says it's meant to be a city truck with small size but just as much utility (or more) than something like a Tacoma.
I'm failing to see how this could have as much or more utility than a Tacoma. I don't see any mention of towing or payload. Not to mention, the clearance will be limiting for anyone who wants to venture off road at all.
garciasn · 4h ago
A $41K ($46K for AWD) “truck” is absurd. This isn’t a viable option for Americans, at all.
Slate is targeting mid-twenties and has over 70+ prototypes vehicles on the road.
Last I checked Telo has... one prototype?
Telo's doomed, anyways.
revnode · 3h ago
Slate is ugly and not nearly as functional. Predicting who is doomed at this point is silly. But there will be a small electric truck soon, which is nice.
kennywinker · 3h ago
Slate: $27k, 150 mile range
Telo: $41k 350 mile range
Slate: 2 door with bed, or 4 door no bed.
Telo: 4 door with bed.
I’d hardly say telo isn’t a viable option compared to slate.
Anyway what really matters is if any of these companies can get a vehicle to market, and at what price point. I’m not about to buy an imaginary car, and neither are you.
Fwiw if they were for sale i would strongly consider buying a telo. It looks perfect for my needs - slate less so, but if they’re all that’s available i’d strongly consider it
baby_souffle · 3h ago
> Last I checked Telo has... one prototype?
As of OpenSauce last month, they had 3 that were roadworthy. I think the company is 15 people big so it would be odd if they had a fleet with mfgr/prototype plates.
They were cagey on their manufacturing strategy but I got the sense that it'll be mostly contract manufacturing. I think slate is trying to keep as much in-house as possible and that means saying "no" to some design decisions that would require a step-up in terms of manufacturing capabilities. E.G.: Composite panels are a hell of a lot cheaper to make than stamped metal panels so slate isn't going to contract the metal stamping out.
garciasn · 4h ago
This isn’t a F150; it’s a mini with a bed. They’re apples to oranges.
jmspring · 4h ago
People are buying Rivians that cost much more.
garciasn · 3h ago
People who can afford $100K+ for a new one and $65K+ for a used one are not most people.
stingrae · 4h ago
$41k is not an absurd starting price for a truck. Look at f150 prices, starting at 39k.
MarcelOlsz · 2h ago
Next level ugly. One of the worst designs I've ever seen.
torginus · 2h ago
I really like the idea of taking advantage of there not being an engine bay in the front, and moving the driver position forward, and eliminating the unused length of the engine bay - but this looks very unsafe for the driver in a crash, with no crumple zone to speak of - not to mention it turns a simple fender bender into a front axle replacement (though with modern cars and their sensors, there's no such thing as a cheap crash anyway)
nacholar · 2h ago
Apparently nobody speaks spanish in the team. Telo MT1 can be read as "te lo mete uno" which translates to sombedy puts it into you.
fallingmeat · 2h ago
still better than “doesn’t go”
rpmisms · 36m ago
Just make a gas-powered one that's repairable. This is not complicated. I love my Tesla, but my other vehicle is a Hardbody for a reason. EVs SUCK as trucks.
01100011 · 28m ago
I'd love an EV truck but not the weird little thing highlighted in this post. I watched an overview video someone linked but turned it off as soon as I saw the guy trying to fit inside the tiny cab.
Also, why is this goofy little truck so powerful and so expensive? Can I please just get a modestly powered EV work truck with capacity for sheet goods, a few tools, and a single passenger other than the driver? Can it not cost $50k?
flankstaek · 28m ago
>EVs SUCK as trucks.
What makes you say that?
sneak · 17m ago
Battery energy density and the huge amounts of energy required to tow or haul heavy, un-aerodynamic loads.
barbegal · 2h ago
The reason why we don't generally have vehicles this small any more is because they don't pass crash tests so I'm wondering how this fares in a crash test. I can't see any way this could be sold in Europe unless there's some very clever engineering to make the front end more resilient in a crash.
masklinn · 2h ago
> I can't see any way this could be sold in Europe
It's 3860 x 1854mm, there are vehicles smaller than that being sold in europe right now (in the A segment, not quadricycles): the fiat 500e is 3632x1683, the suzuki ignis is 3700x1660. The citroen c1 (discontinued 2022) used to be just 3470x1620.
Hell there are B segment cars which aren't much bigger, the R5 e-tech is 3920x1770, the yaris is 3940x1745.
barbegal · 1h ago
There are smaller vehicles being sold but the distance from the front bumper to the driver's legs is much longer because they don't have a bed taking up space at the back.
ColonelPhantom · 2h ago
I guess modern crash safety does require decent crumple zones, but I'm not sure in how far Europe is different than North America in this.
If anything, small vehicles aren't a thing in NA, but extremely popular still in Europe, even though SUVification is also happening here.
There's plenty of small cars left, like the Toyota Aygo X. Renault is also working on a new electric Twingo, and the new 5 isn't huge either.
mattlondon · 2h ago
Probably also the open wheels would be an immediate issue in Europe, especially for pedestrians.
I love the look of the front wheels though!
crote · 1h ago
The Smart ForTwo and Smart ForFour sold pretty well in Europe, and they are minuscule: the ForTwo was only 270cm (106in) long and 150cm (61in) wide!
barbegal · 5m ago
The ForTwo has two seats and no truck bed so it can have enough space for a crash structure in front of the driver. On top of that its NCAP rating expired in 2021 and it is no longer being sold. The next generation of the ForTwo is likely to be longer in order to improve safety (if it ever makes it into production)
hackama · 2h ago
This seems dangerous. Where's the crumple zone?
SilverElfin · 3h ago
What’s the range when loaded with things or people? That’s what matters. I find that most EVs have too many impracticalities to be convenient. For a fixed commute, sure. But for versatility, absolutely not.
1. Adding weight to the bed, if it doesn't affect aerodynamics, doesn't affect highway range much. For stop-and-go traffic I assume the range would get worse, but he didn't test it.
2. Adding a big air pusher to an otherwise empty trailer murders the range
3. Adding an aerodynamic car or truck on a trailer is better for your range than the air pusher
I do wish it was a hybrid. Maybe small companies don't have the knowledge built up to make a good hybrid drivetrain but hell, Edison is going for it. They're planning to build logging trucks with a diesel generator under the hood as prime mover for a series plug-in hybrid drivetrain. It looks very practical and their initial tests show it tows great. (Since that's their entire selling point, they'd have to fold if it couldn't haul logs)
lend000 · 2h ago
As much as I like the novelty of the design, there isn't much of a crumple zone for a head on collision. I could see the wheel placement making this a fun off-road vehicle, though.
andy_ppp · 1h ago
It looks like a pug. I’m not saying that is bad :-)
WorldPeas · 1h ago
Let's hope now that CAFE is dead or at least disarmed, more cars like this will come from the woodwork. I was always jealous that the japanese had so many cool small kei cars like the Subaru Sambar or Suzuki Cappuccino
antisthenes · 1h ago
The information you're looking for is $41,520
wstrange · 2h ago
This is what Tesla should have built instead of the Cybertruck.
With their distribution and service centers, this would sell like hot cakes.
jeffbee · 2h ago
Is there some reason they have to make these have 300 or 500hp? Or is there nothing to be gained in terms of cost and weight from having, say, 90hp (like my completely functional Mighty Max had).
neogodless · 30m ago
For the most part there is a floor with EVs where if you go small in battery, weight, and motor... You have a golf cart, not nearly enough range.
As you increase each of those, a larger motor will probably be more efficient for propelling a heavier load with a larger battery.
Because of the instant torque plus high speeds of an EV motor, it's not hard at all to have high HP figures.
bikamonki · 1h ago
Super ugly and super pricey.
largbae · 2h ago
Telo vs Slate.... Fight!
kart23 · 4h ago
why are there no pictures of the backseat? tired of cars with four doors and backseats made exclusively for children. and they say it can fit 8 people???
matthewfcarlson · 3h ago
You can go on YouTuber and find reviews of the car and most people seem to say the backseat is fairly roomy (the one 6'5" reviewer said he fit). I put a reservation down a few months ago and at 6' (1.9 m for the sane people), I'm really banking on that one off-hand comment.
devmor · 38m ago
If it had full physical controls in the interior, this would be my dream vehicle. I'd reserve one today.
The second I saw that touchscreen garbage dashboard I closed the window. I'll never buy a vehicle with that nonsense.
__0x01 · 2h ago
Is this cheaper to run than the gas equivalent?
jimmoores · 3h ago
Wow, that is one ugly vehicle. It looks like it's been in an accident.
lysace · 2h ago
When your legs are an integral part of the crumple zone.
yahoozoo · 2h ago
Looks like a Kei truck
drivingmenuts · 2h ago
I saw this on JerryRigEverything and was thinking that this is the perfect city pickup. Compact, yet with a reasonable payload size. It has a good range (which, in my case, is not as important) and the horsepower is good. The dash takes a bit of getting used to, but OK.
It's the second electric vehicle I actually like (Rivian being the first - but it's a full-size).
macinjosh · 3h ago
way too expensive for its size and capability
prmoustache · 2h ago
Too small, this won't sell.
aynyc · 2h ago
This is what Ford e-transit could’ve been. Another missed opportunity by Ford.
tills13 · 3h ago
Can't wait to see what mental gymnastics are done to make this illegal or heavily taxed in some US States.
mrtesthah · 3h ago
That will only happen if the right-wing propagandists manage to turn these into a wedge issue. But ultimately more EV cars and trucks (as opposed to e-bikes) won’t threaten the car-dependent culture that enables the population-density-driven fear or urban culture driving their narratives to begin with.
gotoeleven · 1h ago
The extreme regulation of automobiles in the US is entirely from the left, specifically from people who dislike cars and want everyone on public transit (except for the few special people of course).
roschdal · 2h ago
Telo MT1 - "your knees are the crumble zone"
throw123xz · 44m ago
Is it much worse than having an engine there?
holoduke · 1h ago
Sorry. But to me it looks like a truck i can order on alieexpress. Does not show any robustness, strength and is not sexy at all. Nice for your local laundry delivery service at your beach resort. But thats it.
TheGuyWhoCodes · 4h ago
Very little information about safety other than marketing speak "Utilizing the latest in advanced safety technology—sensors to predict and classify collisions before they happen, airbags, and structural technology—to make our vehicles safer for everyone on the road."
Have they never heard of a crumple zone?
chipsa · 4h ago
You think a crumple zone isn’t required by current FMVSS, which they are designing against? That is, in fact, what they referred to with “ structural technology”.
null0ranje · 4h ago
I'm pretty skeptical of the safety as well. It's also pretty hard to judge where there don't seem to be any actual photographs of the vehicle, only computer renderings.
I would love a small truck like this, but I would honestly buy an old Tacoma or Ranger before even considering buying this on spec.
*edit: digging around I did find some footage on YouTube with actual vehicles. I'm definitely skeptical on the safety now.
k12sosse · 2h ago
'22 rangers are in a sweet spot right now.
geuis · 4h ago
Who is the target market here?
* Purely subjective opinion: It's ugly as hell. The front of vehicles isn't just for engines, it's also for aerodynamics.
* It's crazy expensive.
* The bed looks too short to be practically useful.
* The wheels look comically small.
* The ground clearance doesn't seem to make it useful for more than suburban and urban road environments.
wpm · 3h ago
> It's ugly as hell.
So is a Ford Transit van? Who cares. This is a work truck.
> The bed looks too short to be practically useful.
The bed is 5 ft long. From TF website: "Same truck bed length as the Toyota Tacoma. Larger than a Rivian R1T."
> The wheels look comically small.
They look fine? How big should they be?
> The ground clearance doesn't seem to make it useful for more than suburban and urban road environments.
Oh, so they designed it for the environments it was...designed to be used in? And the same environments most macho big boy trucks spend 99% of their life in? What's the problem here?
Honestly, what's your problem? Why is your comment so harshly negative? You can't fathom a target market for this because you don't seem to be in it?
bastawhiz · 3h ago
I'm the target market.
- I think it looks fine
- I don't need a full sized bed for anything I'd be transporting
- Tricked out it's a little over half the cost of an R1T Dual and $10K less than a comparable F150 Lightning upgraded to the long range battery
- The wheels are small because it's a small truck. Big wheels would look ridiculous.
- This isn't a truck for off roading or unmaintained dirt roads.
What would I use this truck for?
- towing a motorcycle trailer
- Picking up stuff from Costco that won't fit in my trunk
- Buying and transporting dirt, gravel, and stone for my yard
- Going up to my cabin with my partner and two friends and having enough room to seat everyone and have room for all the luggage
monkeyelite · 25m ago
I'm excited to hear your review after purchase.
matthewfcarlson · 3h ago
Exactly. I love that it's small. I used to have a 4 door full length bed GMC and it felt like driving a boat. Seattle was particularly awful. My current garage is only 210 inches deep (5.334 m) so most trucks will not fit in my current house (very first world problems I know). But yes, smaller, lower cost, and does everything I need a truck for.
SilverElfin · 3h ago
Isn’t a ford lightning much bigger and more capable?
bastawhiz · 2h ago
More capable how? It's more capable if it does more things that you want it to do, but in my case it doesn't add more utility. When you compare it based on range and power, it's still more expensive.
ParetoOptimal · 1h ago
Maybe it's more capable because driving small truck could make people think your genitalia is small?
Not my personal opinion... but wonder how much of a factor this is :)
toast0 · 3h ago
> * The bed looks too short to be practically useful.
Have you looked at the mainstream 'small' truck market lately?
Small in quotes, because actual small trucks disappeared, and we're left with mid sized trucks as the smallest. Used to be you could get a 6-ft bed standard and an optional longer bed on a small truck. Fuel efficiency standards now dictate you can't have that without a larger truck and worse fuel efficency.
ocdtrekkie · 3h ago
I'm not willing to preorder an unproven brand, but I am excited about this. I'm a Toyota RAV4 owner, and I'd like something (much) more fuel efficient, or a fairly affordable EV, but I don't want to lose moderate hauling capacity for equipment, tools, parts for home, etc. I would seriously consider a very small/compact car but I do need to fit a car seat and I do occasionally move things.
I hope this makes it to market because if I was buying a car today, and this was available today, I'd pick this.
wg0 · 1h ago
EVs are scam of the century. They have diverted so much economic resources into an end product that isn't even reliable let alone having a long life.
Yet to talk about the amount of mining, its carbon footprint and pretty much irreversible or really high cost extraction/restoration of batteries apart.
Longevity and carbon footprint - If that's not your yardstick than other than that the EVs are great. Have more power than any combustion engine can ever have, have more torque, more acceleration and pretty much zero maintenance as far as the "engine" is concerned. No noise, no emissions, no vibrations either.
throw123xz · 49m ago
> an end product that isn't even reliable let alone having a long life
What's unreliable on a modern EV? And what do you mean by "long life", because you now have 10-15 year old EVs that are fine.
Obviously some cars aged poorly, like some Tesla which had poor build quality (not an EV problem, but a company problem) or cars like the Nissan Leaf that didn't have battery cooling for years, but what's exactly unreliable on a modern Polestar or a Hyundai?
wg0 · 45m ago
You don't need to ask me, check what happened with car rental companies and EVs.
It's all pretty evident.
throw123xz · 32m ago
If you're referring to what happen to companies like Hertz, then according to them the problem wasn't reliability.
The cars had more accidents, probably because some were not used to the speed or would get an EV just to test the speed. Why buy Tesla in that case then, when their repairs are known to be super expensive and slow? Then you had people who are not used to EVs and charging trying to use EVs and the companies themselves didn't build the charging infrastructure so customers left with a full battery, but that has nothing to do with reliability. Vehicle depreciation? Again, a Tesla problem because they sold them the cars at a high price before dropping prices (the covid years were very weird).
So again, what makes EVs unreliable? It's a simple question.
slater · 42m ago
> Yet to talk about the amount of mining, its carbon footprint and pretty much irreversible or really high cost extraction/restoration of batteries apart.
Do you also have similar thoughts on all the infrastructure needed for oil, or is that not to be discussed?
I always wonder with the "all the mineral-mining!!!" crowd, do they think the oil infrastructure just arrived overnight? And there was no cost (money and long-term ecological) to it all?
Good overviews of the truck https://youtu.be/aEq-vTLimrQ?si=fS-UhjndoWuxwBip
https://youtu.be/1OgN_qctcGs?si=nEysWQHzafRpxfRp
When I was off-roading and traveling a lot of dirt trails with my truck I would also wash it, wax it, and keep it in pristine condition when I got back home.
What did you expect? That we’d leave the mud on it forever, never wash it, and all of the side panels would be bashed in? If you’d climb under the truck (as I do for oil changes) you could see a lot of scrapes and dings from rocks, but I avoid damaging the side and front because that’s very expensive to repair.
Anyway, most of the trucks sold today aren’t sold in the off-road trim. They’re sold with features like lower clearance air dams up front for better fuel economy, on-road tires for better road noise and fuel economy, and commonly in 2WD trims. A new F150 can get 25mpg on the freeway even without the hybrid option.
I work remote so my truck isn’t used for commutes. I frequently haul things in the bed. I off road with friends.
Yet that doesn’t stop some people from making snide remarks about driving a truck. Some people love being angry at truck drivers and imagining they’re all just making irrational choices. They won’t be happy until we’re driving to Home Depot or UHaul every other weekend to rent a truck or trailer instead of parking one in our driveways.
It doesn’t stop them from calling me up and asking for help moving furniture when they need it, though. :)
That's exactly how we always did it growing up.
As a non-American it's super weird that this is considered a good thing. That'd be considered utterly atrocious in most parts of the developed world.
I completely get that a truck is absolutely the best tool for the job for many people. But it's pretty obvious the OP was pointing out the people who own a truck and use it to get from home to their desk job.
It’s about having one vehicle that can do it all. Maybe you’re noticing when there’s one human but you don’t really know how else that person is using the vehicle at other times. Trucks can haul people, things, do road trips, etc. pretty well.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42638394 - January 2025
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21631704 - November 2019
Ray Delahanty | CityNerd: Rural Cosplay is, Unfortunately, A Thing - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q_BE5KPp18
(Americans buy trucks out of emotion and cosplay, not realized utility and rational TCO, based on the evidence and data)
I really wonder what kind of world people live in who write such articles and what kind of world people live in who seriously read them. It's hard to believe that they live among us, there must be some separate island in the ocean or something like that where they can write their articles in complete isolation from the rest of the world.
Would you cry for me if I wanted a Lambo but couldn’t afford it? You would not. This is different? Everyone is entitled to wildly conspicuous consumption? I argue no.
But that complete bs. Vehicle affordability is not in any danger, average price of a new pickus trucks depends on the amount of money the population has. Even if the middle class completely disappears, people will just drive cheaper pickups.
>Would you cry for me if I wanted a Lambo but couldn’t afford it?
But they could. And that the reason why "the average price of a new full-size pickup truck is around $64,000"
You don't need anything besides tent and food!
Every person buys almost everything for emotion.
This is a hilarious take for anyone who has spent any time living outside of a big city.
Yes, there are some people who buy trucks because they want one but don’t actually use the truck features.
Generalizing to “Americans are cosplaying” is just trolling.
https://www.powernationtv.com/post/most-pickup-truck-owners-...
https://www.axios.com/ford-pickup-trucks-history
I’d like to see the study on what percentage of people use all 4 seats in their car so you can dunk on people who buy 4 seaters next.
If you buy something for one of its features and don’t use the others, it doesn’t have anything to do with cosplay.
This is like saying people who buy electric cars should just buy race car driver costumes instead. Unbridled ignorance.
Also, check out the underside of most of these monster vehicles. The approach, breakover, and departure angles may be awesome, but that’s only because the definitions assume uniform height transverse to the driving direction. If you drive these things over any substantial bump that the wheels don’t go over, the differential will bottom out. Oops. This means that, for many practical purposes, the height of the vehicle and the absurd suspensions don’t buy nearly as much capability as they might appear to.
95% of big trucks I see on the road have one person in them and beyond my anecdotal experience we know statistically that most vehicle trips involve 1 person. It's not super hard to extrapolate from there.
I'm not even particularly "anti" truck, though I do think the increase in size and weight has gotten totally ridiculous.
For other times, use a car.
* a truck is just a car that misses a roof over the back part of it
Respectfully, a truck is not just a car missing the back part of it. It often has a lot more power, is lifted, has off-road springs, larger wheels, low and high speed gear box, roll cage for the front cabin, raised air intake - the list goes on.
Most people, though, do just need a car with a removable back.
Yes, yes, we all know. "You'll own nothing and be happy". Fewer and fewer people believe you.
That’s not to say there aren’t real uses for trucks, or people who use them for their designed purpose.
That’s also not to say people should be required to purchase only vehicles that meet their basic transportation requirements. People drive sports cars even without ever going out to a track.
Trucks (and full-size SUVs) specifically push some pretty crappy externalities onto other road users, so it’s not exactly crazy to be annoyed with people who buy and drive big trucks a personality trait.
You can tell how few people in this thread have any idea how light off roading or hauling works.
Driving your truck down a dirt road or putting something in the back of it doesn’t destroy the paint job. You can have a work truck and keep it nice.
Ironically they’re also often old small models that owners have been keeping running forever because they’re cheap to fix, practical, and easy to park unlike their embiggened modern counterparts.
Not really. Lots of people use trucks and keep them in pristine condition too. Beds have liners now to keep them looking new. And you aren’t getting random dings on the outside unless you drive into things.
No you wouldn’t. Off-roading, hauling things, and towing trailers does not require destroying the finish or exterior of the truck in any way.
Best case you’re looking at 28.5% weekend utilization which isn’t that bad, much better than the 1% I joked with, but how many people do you know taking an offroad adventure every single weekend?
So what? Yeah I don’t really care. It’s mostly hilarious watching them try to park.
Yes, as can most vehicles?
And, the sub contractors - the ones doing the work (immigrants) - they had a wide variety of vehicles. I took note that some had Camrys, Prius, old Golfs, small picks ups like Rangers, and some older mid size trucks that were visually heavily used. Else, they used commercial trucks or vans. When did I see the prestigious full cab F150s or Silverado RTs? When I originally interviewed GCs which is when I noticed they drove their clean and new trucks.
If the road existed in the 1990s, it's quite likely accessible by a mid-size SUV. Similarly, if families of 4 could go camping with cars from 1950-2000, you can today as well. In fact, you can get more compact tents, etc. today.
Trucks and huge SUVs come in handy if you want to bring lots of modern toys like gigantic prestige coolers and 4x4s.
The main objection is the buffoonish size. Look at trucks in the 1990s and compare the size.
There is absolutely an element of clownish machismo involved.
If you specifically exclude work trucks and define “haul a load” as filling up the bed with loose dirt or gravel or something then I could believe this.
I haven’t put a cubic yard of anything in my truck bed this year but hauling a cubic yard of anything is a rare occurrence for someone who isn’t doing landscaping.
But you have to really stretch the definitions if you believe that people never put anything in the bed to haul.
Not to mention Christmas trees, moving, helping friends out, etc.
If you off-road with a truck and keep it clean afterwards, this is exactly what it looks like on the street.
I noticed the lack of a "crumple zone" the instant I saw the image.
...and a moment later, I also realized it's usually a solid engine block that sits there. I shudder to think of what actually happens when that zone "crumples".
Back to the Telo MT1, it's great that they redesigned it from the ground up, around it being an EV -- it's like the Phelps Tractor having reins, and then somebody asking "why does it need to have reins if there's no horse?"
The engine is designed to move based on the design of the frame rails and mounts -- it is pushed under the passenger compartment, absorbing and deflecting more energy.
I'm sure the Telo is designed to modern standards and would perform similarly. I'd be more worried about expensive damage to the vehicle in less personally dangerous collisions.
I believe the engine drops down and the rest crumples inward, at least in theory.
Although I don’t know about American trucks. I think they are meant to wreak havoc on every single person involved.
Quite a challenge with heavy duty trucks shipping tens of tons of stuff, but anyway.
So other people drive in a way that is not compatible with my driving because I don’t want headlamps in my cabin. Occasionally there’s a lifted truck behind me and it brightens my cabin.
In those moments I fantasize about placing retroreflectors all over my rear seat headrests but then I pull over and let them past and the moment passes.
Besides, a HN truism is “Yield to gross tonnage”. I liked that. It makes sense that HN users who believe that if you’re big others should get out of the way also get large cars.
“The cemeteries are full of people with right of way” so smaller vehicles should get out of the way of larger vehicles or risk death. It’s a good lesson. Can’t say it’s false.
What is also obviously true is that road damage scales with the fourth power of vehicle mass, and that therefore vehicle taxation should increase at a similar power, so that the drivers of the 3-tonne trucknutted Canyoneros stop freeloading on the community.
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[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Heemeyer
Americans generally don’t want tiny vehicles. The option that leaves them is trucks and, increasingly, SUVs.
Contrast that with someone having a needlessly powerful computer. How does that impact the rest of the world? Not at all, it only impacts the owner's wallet. Someone's needlessly-powerful computer has never killed a child, or taken up four spots in public. Heck, it'll even downclock when idle, so there isn't even any extra power use to be worried about!
https://www.heyhomepage.com/?module=blog&link=1&post=4
I’d like a small truck for DIY house projects in a suburb, but even the “small” Ford Maverick is nearly a foot longer than a 2000 Tacoma and the 2025 Tacoma is about two feet longer, both of which would be awkward to park and maneuver on the tight streets around here. Their increased height is dangeorus with all the kids running around, too. So, well, I don’t have a truck.
The Telo and maybe Slate are the first two modern trucks that I could realistically consider. Hoping for an R3T that’s sized similarly to Rivian’s upcoming R3 (which is comparable in size to a VW Golf) but that’s probably not going to happen.
Still those have basically caught up with full-sized vehicles from ~15 years ago..
- The body panels were composite but they want to go to stamped metal for production. - It's based off of the subaru ascent; at least most of the frame and suspension is. - NMC chemistry, didn't get an OEM name for the actual cell/pouch though. - Mostly off the shelf Bosch power-train components. Will be interesting to see a tear-down once they're for sale. - No commitment on how "open" the vehicle will be to modifications. They have designed in attachment points for upgrades but it didn't seem to be anywhere as extensive as what Slate is doing. This makes some sense; they have a more "finished" vision where Slate is intentionally taking the "our vision is for you to buy the canvas from us and then make it your own" approach.
On that last point, I don't think Slate has released anything substantial either w/r/t the CAN bus either. As far as I know, their plan is still a BYOD approach for the head-unit so here's hoping that it'll be relatively straight forward to interrogate the busses from an android or linux device. The Telo had a head-unit integrated so who knows how much control you'll have over the vehicle.
There’s something to be said for being distinctive, but you can do that while not looking silly (Lucid is a good example). And simply being a small electric truck is enough differentiation anyway
Seriously though, it has the same shape and look of any kei I've seen. Like others, I wish for a 90s era Ford Ranger or Tacoma, but between safety requirements and capability demand from people that's probably not practical.
Honestly, if you look at the truck market, it's dominated by masculine designs like the F-150. Arguably this has created a gap in the market for designs that are more compact and approachable. It may never be the majority, but TELO looks perfectly suited to address that niche.
I agree there should be more approachable designs, just seems like this went way too far in the direction of toy-like
The point of a truck for 90% of American pickup truck drivers is that it signals to the world around them what team they’re on. This truck is a signal for the wrong team.
I can think of one possibility. At Tesla’s scale, production becomes feasible only if they can produce X million units. This is because setting up production tooling, supply chain channels, and other associated costs is prohibitively expensive. Additionally, the demand for these vehicles will be relatively low until influential YouTubers in the construction, farming, and rural sectors become advocates and start promoting them.
In my opinion, electric vehicles (EVs) are perfectly suited for this task. They are ideal for transporting heavy items between nearby destinations, such as moving Home Depot supplies to a construction site or Costco products to a restaurant or store. A range of even 200 miles is practical for this use-case and keeps the cost low (MT1 is a beast by my standard).
For clarification, I am all for more competition. But I am also selfish and I really want this segment to become wildly successful . In any case, I really and truly hope they can make the business case work and be profitable/sustainable.
hopefully the success of the ford maverick can allay some of this concern - i don't think anybody was really expecting it to be as successful as it has been, but it seems like there's actually pretty decent demand for a smaller truck.
Exterior designs.
The interior has no design - design and UI were given over to a touchscreen. Go look at the interior renderings to see for yourself ...
This is a surprising claim to me. Can you point to any other vehicles (even something from John Deere or a competitor) whose demand significantly rose in a way directly attributable to influential youtubers in those niches, and which influencers in particular you think would be particularly influential?
Like with most cars they have made it is because Tesla has no taste.
I was legit considering getting an F150 lighting for a little while but when I saw how much your range decreases when towing something it became obvious that it’s not really practical. It’s just objectively worse at hauling than a gas car.
Hopefully we see more battery tech breakthroughs that make electric trucks viable work vehicles.
Aging wheels has a recent video on the subject: https://youtu.be/UmKf8smvGsA
For everyday driving, I pay about $8.50 for a “full tank” of charge that gets me around 300 miles. That’s about $100 worth of gas in an equivalent gas truck.
That’s being said I think the ideal truck would have about 2x-3x the current battery capacity of the extended range lightning.
In a couple of recent youtube videos, "Aging Wheels" thoroughly tested a variety of trailers towed behind a variety of vehicles and then also added weight to the trailer to see the efficiency impact of towing a trailer with a lot more weight. They found a 4.3% efficiency drop by adding weight to max out the towing, compared to towing without the extra weight. Weight isn't what matters on towing impact, it's the wind resistance of the trailer that matters much more.
They did a long series of comparison drives (in the about 30 mins video) with different trailers and then loaded them with extra weight to see the impact. It was smaller than you expect. The video with all the tests is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmKf8smvGsA.
I heard about this on the batteries included podcast where they interview the author of the video above, and kind of give high level summary with some details, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGJv-xAqcTI.
At least they kept the stalks on the steering column ...
This is 3860 x 1854 x 1676mm, or 14% x 25% x -16% bigger than Japanese Kei car specifications(3400 x 1480 x 2000mm max.) Closest match in features among Kei cars would be Daihatsu Hijet Deck Van, except that one is 465mm / 18" shorter that this having an awkwardly short 880mm / 35" long bed.
https://i.imgur.com/omF3Abn.jpeg
The side compartment under the bed / in front of the rear wheel is pretty cool too.
The entire point of the Slate truck is to try to come in under 20K or around it, and without the EV subsidies that's probably not going to happen.
I wonder though if the interior trim can be ordered without this felt-like material. I can easily see that being stained or dirty in a short period of time. I am sure there is.
but if you really need a pickup truck, this cannot compare to a Tacoma
That said I dont think anyone buying a Tacoma will be tempted by this vehicle, and I dont think the buyers of the MT1 will be comparison checking the Tacoma either.
Separate markets the way I see it, as do they
""EV pickup for urban living and weekend adventuring""
So why the comparison?
I really want a modern version of a mid-90s Tacoma.
Can you elaborate? This has the same bed size, same crew capacity and greater horsepower than a tacoma.
It is a 10-15k/year product at best. How does an independent maker get that profitable at <$50k, despite all the costs of setting up a sales and service network?
On the other hand, electric cars seem to be relatively "easy" to build. Sure, Fisker went bankrupt, but Rivian seems to do sort of fine. Xiaomi even managed to build a car, and I actually saw one of them by chance charging next to me today.
Seems to me like a lot more newcomers succeed in getting cars built, than was and is the case with ICE cars.
that said, the problem with these utilitarian vehicles is that they appeal to people who buy cars once every 20 years, whereas most of the industry is serving the very large, very abundant population of Americans buying 2 cars every 2 years
Maybe a few people get some functionality out of the design.
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/remembering-fiat-multipla-quite...
Besides the way it looks, of course. But if you're inside a Multipla, at least you don't have to look at its exterior?
I wonder if Telo is attempting to define a new category. Substance in a truck, in my lived opinion, is about utility. Towing capacity, ruggedness, ability to go (very) off road. An electric power train shows promise, but is limited by infra.
If that’s not the target, then maybe it’s a different target, such as San Francisco residents where space is limited and a slight nod to utility is adequate.
Further down the peninsula, and specifically in the Santa Cruz mountains, this is less interesting. I can’t imagine this for outdoor (e.g. mountain biking) or project oriented (e.g. landscaping) people.
So back to the top: if they’re marketing substance over show, maybe they’re really marketing to people who desire show over substance.
Edit: let me also throw in my drive down to the bottom tip of Baja a few months ago. The roads were rough in places, and I definitely went off road to reach some interesting places. It reminded me of some rough terrain and roads in Wyoming and Oklahoma - truck states. Without big wheels and tough suspension - I wouldn’t take a Telo.
There's a divide in needs between off-roading and moving things around, and this seems oriented in the moving things around direction. I can easily see it working for a landscaper in a suburban environment, for example, where the driving miles per day are really not that high and 6,600 is plenty for a typical landscaper's trailer.
From everything I've seen, true off-roading applications are a pretty small portion of the overall truck market, and one that many popular trucks right now are also poorly optimized for (popular 2WD configurations, middling clearances, etc).
It's a Kei truck. That's not a new thing. Online discourses categorizing Telo as one leads to people pointing out Kei are equipped with weaker engines for legal reasons, that doesn't matter. US finally started making its own Kei truck.
I’m unsure why people think they need such big vehicles for outdoors sports. We drove thousands of miles around Europe with 4 kayaks on the roof of a Ford Fiesta. Or you can easily fit three mountain bikes on a rear bike rack.
I’ve also seen a motorcyclist having a bike mounted on a hitch!
Optimization for tiny isn’t a factor in the big outdoors. Indeed, I see more people in Sprinter vans than Teslas by mountain biking hot spots. So it’s not about “could you”, it’s about comfort and practicality of anything / everything else you may want to do beyond just lugging a bike to a trail. Such as: the optionality to go truly off road - in the vehicle not on the bike.
(Check out Montana, Wyoming, Alaska, etc.)
I realize Europeans have a much different understanding of distance and cargo needs; I do. But, 300 miles and 6 passengers is a pretty common requirement here in the US.
I often find that I want to take a break after a couple hours of driving, and even when I drove a gas vehicle, those breaks would be 30-40 minutes long unless it was an exceptionally long day of driving. With a little planning I’ve found that I can do 90% of the trips in my EV that I used to do in my gas car. I probably can’t replicate the couple 1000-mile-in-one-day trips I did in my previous vehicle, but those experiences also made me not want to.
FWIW, in the last two years alone I have driven my EV from MA to Nova Scotia and back, MA to Iowa and back, MA to MD and back, and all over the eastern seaboard (trips to the Adirondacks, WV, etc). Lately I have not even had to plan anymore. It was surprising to discover that I could plug my car (a Bolt) into a GM charger in Indiana this summer and not even need to fiddle with an app. Things have improved dramatically for road trips in the last two years, and I have probably one of the slowest charging cars out there. Really, the only thing stopping me from buying an EV pickup is that I don’t want to pay that much for a vehicle with such an absurdly small bed. My Bolt can pull a small trailer just fine.
I don't think it's possible to buy a new 6 passenger vehicle rated for towing 5000lb in the US for under $30K.
Europe allows towing with much smaller vehicles. There you can do 4400lb in a Golf and 4850lb in Passat though you might still struggle for 6 passengers for $30k new.
Santa Cruz Mountain roads tend to be well paved. Though, large exceptions definitely exist! (E.g. Highland Way)
Then you need a used diesel pickup truck. 6 people is a stretch unless at least one of those is an infant or you have people on laps.
That's a 4-5 hour trip and you don't want to stop to charge for thirty minutes? One bathroom break or stop for food and you've already spent probably half of those 30m stopped anyway.
> fit 6 passengers
This truck does? It has a third row.
But I'm curious what truck you think will comfortably fit six passengers for under $30k. If the second row fits three people and the front row fits two passengers (and frankly, having a person ride in the middle of the front row is ridiculous), you only seat five passengers. Even if you count the driver as a passenger, at best you've got one uncomfortable occupant.
- Ram 1500 starts at 40k
- F150 starts at 38k
- Silverado 1500 starts at 37k
- Ford Superduty starts above 40k
- Sierra 1500 starts at 38k
And most of these are just bench seats in the front, not a third row.
https://youtu.be/pw250Va1JFo?t=469
Last I checked Telo has... one prototype?
Telo's doomed, anyways.
Telo: $41k 350 mile range
Slate: 2 door with bed, or 4 door no bed.
Telo: 4 door with bed.
I’d hardly say telo isn’t a viable option compared to slate.
Anyway what really matters is if any of these companies can get a vehicle to market, and at what price point. I’m not about to buy an imaginary car, and neither are you.
Fwiw if they were for sale i would strongly consider buying a telo. It looks perfect for my needs - slate less so, but if they’re all that’s available i’d strongly consider it
As of OpenSauce last month, they had 3 that were roadworthy. I think the company is 15 people big so it would be odd if they had a fleet with mfgr/prototype plates.
They were cagey on their manufacturing strategy but I got the sense that it'll be mostly contract manufacturing. I think slate is trying to keep as much in-house as possible and that means saying "no" to some design decisions that would require a step-up in terms of manufacturing capabilities. E.G.: Composite panels are a hell of a lot cheaper to make than stamped metal panels so slate isn't going to contract the metal stamping out.
Also, why is this goofy little truck so powerful and so expensive? Can I please just get a modestly powered EV work truck with capacity for sheet goods, a few tools, and a single passenger other than the driver? Can it not cost $50k?
What makes you say that?
It's 3860 x 1854mm, there are vehicles smaller than that being sold in europe right now (in the A segment, not quadricycles): the fiat 500e is 3632x1683, the suzuki ignis is 3700x1660. The citroen c1 (discontinued 2022) used to be just 3470x1620.
Hell there are B segment cars which aren't much bigger, the R5 e-tech is 3920x1770, the yaris is 3940x1745.
If anything, small vehicles aren't a thing in NA, but extremely popular still in Europe, even though SUVification is also happening here.
There's plenty of small cars left, like the Toyota Aygo X. Renault is also working on a new electric Twingo, and the new 5 isn't huge either.
I love the look of the front wheels though!
The results were:
1. Adding weight to the bed, if it doesn't affect aerodynamics, doesn't affect highway range much. For stop-and-go traffic I assume the range would get worse, but he didn't test it.
2. Adding a big air pusher to an otherwise empty trailer murders the range
3. Adding an aerodynamic car or truck on a trailer is better for your range than the air pusher
I do wish it was a hybrid. Maybe small companies don't have the knowledge built up to make a good hybrid drivetrain but hell, Edison is going for it. They're planning to build logging trucks with a diesel generator under the hood as prime mover for a series plug-in hybrid drivetrain. It looks very practical and their initial tests show it tows great. (Since that's their entire selling point, they'd have to fold if it couldn't haul logs)
With their distribution and service centers, this would sell like hot cakes.
As you increase each of those, a larger motor will probably be more efficient for propelling a heavier load with a larger battery.
Because of the instant torque plus high speeds of an EV motor, it's not hard at all to have high HP figures.
The second I saw that touchscreen garbage dashboard I closed the window. I'll never buy a vehicle with that nonsense.
It's the second electric vehicle I actually like (Rivian being the first - but it's a full-size).
Have they never heard of a crumple zone?
I would love a small truck like this, but I would honestly buy an old Tacoma or Ranger before even considering buying this on spec.
*edit: digging around I did find some footage on YouTube with actual vehicles. I'm definitely skeptical on the safety now.
* Purely subjective opinion: It's ugly as hell. The front of vehicles isn't just for engines, it's also for aerodynamics.
* It's crazy expensive.
* The bed looks too short to be practically useful.
* The wheels look comically small.
* The ground clearance doesn't seem to make it useful for more than suburban and urban road environments.
So is a Ford Transit van? Who cares. This is a work truck.
> The bed looks too short to be practically useful.
The bed is 5 ft long. From TF website: "Same truck bed length as the Toyota Tacoma. Larger than a Rivian R1T."
> The wheels look comically small.
They look fine? How big should they be?
> The ground clearance doesn't seem to make it useful for more than suburban and urban road environments.
Oh, so they designed it for the environments it was...designed to be used in? And the same environments most macho big boy trucks spend 99% of their life in? What's the problem here?
Honestly, what's your problem? Why is your comment so harshly negative? You can't fathom a target market for this because you don't seem to be in it?
- I think it looks fine
- I don't need a full sized bed for anything I'd be transporting
- Tricked out it's a little over half the cost of an R1T Dual and $10K less than a comparable F150 Lightning upgraded to the long range battery
- The wheels are small because it's a small truck. Big wheels would look ridiculous.
- This isn't a truck for off roading or unmaintained dirt roads.
What would I use this truck for?
- towing a motorcycle trailer
- Picking up stuff from Costco that won't fit in my trunk
- Buying and transporting dirt, gravel, and stone for my yard
- Going up to my cabin with my partner and two friends and having enough room to seat everyone and have room for all the luggage
Not my personal opinion... but wonder how much of a factor this is :)
Have you looked at the mainstream 'small' truck market lately?
Small in quotes, because actual small trucks disappeared, and we're left with mid sized trucks as the smallest. Used to be you could get a 6-ft bed standard and an optional longer bed on a small truck. Fuel efficiency standards now dictate you can't have that without a larger truck and worse fuel efficency.
I hope this makes it to market because if I was buying a car today, and this was available today, I'd pick this.
Yet to talk about the amount of mining, its carbon footprint and pretty much irreversible or really high cost extraction/restoration of batteries apart.
Longevity and carbon footprint - If that's not your yardstick than other than that the EVs are great. Have more power than any combustion engine can ever have, have more torque, more acceleration and pretty much zero maintenance as far as the "engine" is concerned. No noise, no emissions, no vibrations either.
What's unreliable on a modern EV? And what do you mean by "long life", because you now have 10-15 year old EVs that are fine.
Obviously some cars aged poorly, like some Tesla which had poor build quality (not an EV problem, but a company problem) or cars like the Nissan Leaf that didn't have battery cooling for years, but what's exactly unreliable on a modern Polestar or a Hyundai?
It's all pretty evident.
The cars had more accidents, probably because some were not used to the speed or would get an EV just to test the speed. Why buy Tesla in that case then, when their repairs are known to be super expensive and slow? Then you had people who are not used to EVs and charging trying to use EVs and the companies themselves didn't build the charging infrastructure so customers left with a full battery, but that has nothing to do with reliability. Vehicle depreciation? Again, a Tesla problem because they sold them the cars at a high price before dropping prices (the covid years were very weird).
So again, what makes EVs unreliable? It's a simple question.
Do you also have similar thoughts on all the infrastructure needed for oil, or is that not to be discussed?
I always wonder with the "all the mineral-mining!!!" crowd, do they think the oil infrastructure just arrived overnight? And there was no cost (money and long-term ecological) to it all?