Apps/platforms don't work for learning Japanese. You just need to memorize the hell out of the vocabulary, spend some time learning the grammar, and most importantly IMMERSE. Watch, read and listen to content in Japanese.
The “culture” around learning Japanese is so different from other languages. There’s a large amount of software engineers studying the language, so there’s tons of apps/websites that center around it (for better or worse).
The communities are also… particular. People tend to espouse certain deep beliefs or attitudes that you just don’t see for other languages (and I don’t think complexity is the reason; you don’t see that for Chinese or Russian or Finnish, to name some other notoriously hard languages).
OneMorePerson · 45m ago
My argument in support of the general immersion concept but against AJATT is that most people can't actually effectively use that method without hitting a wall. The amount differs for everyone but after some ratio (say around 50% of your waking hours) your brain will stop working as well and you need space to process what you learned. Finishing a long study session (say listening to a few YouTube videos then having a session on iTalki with a tutor, etc.) and having my phone in Japanese just sounds like hell to me.
zaik · 1h ago
Anki definitely works for memorizing the hell out of vocabulary and I also don't regret completing WaniKani, although I would probably choose an Anki only approach if I had to start over. At some intermediate level I stopped looking at the mnemonics completely and just did as many reviews as possible until it stuck.
awirth · 12m ago
I also got a lot of value out of wanikani even without completing it.
I tried and failed several times to get started with Anki before having success with Wanikani. The key diffentiator for me was the learning step. Anki is great for remembering things you were taught or learned outside of it, but using Anki to learn new things is very much a learned skill that Wanikani holds your hand through.
I have N2 and am working on N1 now, and feel I still have a very long way to go before getting to CEFR C1. Now I only use Anki with the yomitan and takoboto integrations to quickly add any words I look up, which seems to be working well.
coldblues · 1h ago
I agree with you, but Anki is a generalized flashcard SRS memorization tool, not specifically made for learning Japanese, so it's not within my area of critique; I'm thinking of apps similar to Duolingo. It works extremely well because it helps you memorize very efficiently. One of the few applications that will indeed boost your learning by a lot. Anything requiring manual input rather than a simple Again or Good button choice tends to be worse. Any Anki deck requiring manual input as an answer should not be used.
wodenokoto · 1h ago
Ajatt is absolutely ridiculous and I never understood how it rose to prominence online.
His result to efforts ratio listed back in the days was terrible and reading through is blog - back when it was a blog - was impossible. Everything read like an informercial and never got to the point.
Last time I checked it was a book club. Didn’t bother to check this time.
linehedonist · 35m ago
And maybe talk to people in Japanese? And do some writing? Not just passive consumption.
adastra22 · 1h ago
Apps are really good at the first two though.
TheDong · 21m ago
Some constructive criticism:
1. For picking the kana answers, using the keyboard key is better than numbers. When you actually type an え, you type 'e', so it's a useful mapping to learn in terms of how IME works.
2. For vocabulary, there should be an option to turn off romaji in favor of kana only. No explanation needed I think
3. The vocab quiz, between kanji and just an english word, is an anti-pattern in my opinion. Recognizing the meaning if vocab in a full japanese sentence is a much better basic quiz, especially since not all words have 1-1 mappings. It also doesn't quiz on the reading, which seems weird. Also, an easy example of something confusing there is that 辺 is 'area', but if I see 'area' my first thought is 面積 (like the area of a triangle), while 辺 would be edge in that context... and my second thought is 地域, like "the area of the country I grew up in". I think 辺 is maybe 4th or 5th for 'area', and that's just because 'area' is a broad english word. My point is, quizzing vocab -> english word, without reading, without an example sentence, is a recipe to confuse learner's brains.
4. Same complaints as vocab for the kanji quiz, but moreso since kanji's meaning is more abstract.
The beautiful aesthetic and open-source way to learn Japanese is to make Anki flash cards, and customize the cards using html (which it already supports).
This entire site could have been anki decks, and then it would have had spaced repetition for free, and users could even more easily edit things to suit themselves ad add to it.
danbolt · 23m ago
I really like the UI’s use of screen real estate on mobile!
For studying N5 and N4, I’ve found Bunpro’s lesson grouping by JLPT levels a really nice format. It’s been encouraging seeing a progress bar for each step of the journey. I’d suggest looking for inspo there too if that interests you.
jv22222 · 1h ago
Speaking as someone who knows nothing about Japanese and is unlikely to use any app to ever learn Japanese... but just as a software ui/ux dev first time in. (ie take this with a pinch of salt)
On the test screens I was expecting there to be an option to shown the answers (ie cheat mode) so I could go through and get 100% score first few times.
And use that as a kind of flash card mode to get my footing in understanding stuff.
Then move out of cheat mode and see if I learnt anything!
anigbrowl · 2h ago
It's pretty good straight out of the gate. I think giving customization of fonts is an excellent idea. There's huge variation in this area and font-switching is a definite stumbling block for anyone doing JSL. If someone has gotten used to a sans serif font from a textbook or Anki deck, for example, the more visually complex serif fronts used on official documents and exam papers require extra mental effort to parse. Likewise being able to switch color combinations easily is a good idea.
Might be good to allow the kanji/vocabulary to be filtered by JLPT or Jouyou stage. Picking multiple sets on the kanji units was a bit tedious, it's be nice to 'pick all' for a drill (but I was using it to test myself rather than learn new ones). I don't understand the pick options (pick, reverse, input, output) - they seem superfluous and perhaps need tooltips. Maybe add audio recordings at some point, although that's a bunch of work. You can use AI to generate it of course and it will be mostly correct as far as individual words go, but Japanese AI voices still seem to get pitch shapes and timing wrong sometimes.
1317 · 1h ago
I'm afraid I found selecting sets to be very unclear, and I only figured it out by poking around the interface until it let me press the button
Edit: I didn't realise there were multiple modes either until I stumbled upon that as well
anyway drilling vocab/characters isn't the same thing as learning a language
gazook89 · 1h ago
I think there is something wrong with the total time for round stat. It only told me 0 minutes 0 seconds. The other time related stats were fine
ktimespi · 1h ago
Hi, would it be possible to randomly trigger furigana for kanji and vocabulary during recall?
tentoumushi · 4h ago
The idea is actually quite simple. As a Japanese learner and a coder, I've always wanted there to be an open-source, 100% free for learning Japanese, similar to Monkeytype in the typing community.
Unfortunately, pretty much all language learning apps are closed-sourced and paid these days, and the ones that are free have unfortunately been abandoned.
But of course, just creating yet another language learning app was not enough - there has to be a unique selling point. And then I thought to myself: why not make it crazy and do what no other language learning app ever did by adding a gazillion different color themes and fonts, to really hit it home and honor the app's original inspiration, Monkeytype?
And so I did. Now, I'm looking to find contributors and testers for the early stages of the app.
Why? Because weebs and otakus deserve to have a 100% free, beautiful, quality language learning app too！
For anyone interested, you can check it out at --> https://kanadojo.com and let me know what you think ^ ^
clbrmbr · 1h ago
Great start! I like the aesthetic and focus on a single language. Most of all, making it open source and just getting it out there!
I'd love to collaborate, but I think we've got to look at overall concept first. There's a lot of information on the screen and it's not really clear how the learner journeys through. Greatly reducing the amount of info on the screen at once, focusing learner's attention on a single path would be helpful.
There's many theories of language acquisition, but I think Krashen is most on-point: we learn through comprehensible input. New vocabulary really needs to be encountered in context of meaningful sentences that are understandable to the learner. Further, when training, production with spaced repetition is really the most effective strategy.
I'd love to see there be a really great free learning tool that brings a pedagogically sound approach to Japanese learners!
agnishom · 1h ago
> Unfortunately, pretty much all language learning apps are closed-sourced
Mainly because of the content. Designing a beautiful UI and framework is one thing, but what is your plan for pooling together enough effort to produce enough learning material that the app becomes a meaningful learning resource?
3np · 4h ago
Looks neat but wish it wasn't sending user data to Google Analytics of all places.
colesantiago · 2h ago
What do you suggest they do instead?
me_bx · 2h ago
What do they need Google Analytics for? Is it a must-have or a nice to have? In my experience most small website owners have web analytics setup but barely ever check the reports.
Some alternatives:
* don't have web analytics at all
* self-host a Plausible Analytics or other open source analytics solution
* use the data from server-side access logs (for those using nginx, apache or other similar solutions)
* use Vercel web analytics' free tier (relevant for kanadojo which appears to be hosted there) - more privacy friendly than Google Analytics.
asimovfan · 2h ago
the UI is very good. Especially on my touchscreen laptop.
agnishom · 1h ago
I love the fonts! So playful
innocentoldguy · 2h ago
It looks great. I would suggest changing the kanji next to the label "Kanji" to 字 instead of 出, though. 字 is the second character in the word 漢字 (kanji) and means "character." I would also suggest changing the kanji next to the "Vocabulary" label from 言 to 語. 語 is the second character in the word 単語 (tango) and means "word." The あ next to the "Kana" label is perfect.
出 means "to go out or exit" and doesn't have anything to do with learning Kanji.
言 means "to say" and is only tangentially related to learning vocabulary.
https://learnjapanese.moe
https://alljapanesealltheti.me/ (this used to be THE guide for learning)
The communities are also… particular. People tend to espouse certain deep beliefs or attitudes that you just don’t see for other languages (and I don’t think complexity is the reason; you don’t see that for Chinese or Russian or Finnish, to name some other notoriously hard languages).
I tried and failed several times to get started with Anki before having success with Wanikani. The key diffentiator for me was the learning step. Anki is great for remembering things you were taught or learned outside of it, but using Anki to learn new things is very much a learned skill that Wanikani holds your hand through.
I have N2 and am working on N1 now, and feel I still have a very long way to go before getting to CEFR C1. Now I only use Anki with the yomitan and takoboto integrations to quickly add any words I look up, which seems to be working well.
His result to efforts ratio listed back in the days was terrible and reading through is blog - back when it was a blog - was impossible. Everything read like an informercial and never got to the point.
Last time I checked it was a book club. Didn’t bother to check this time.
1. For picking the kana answers, using the keyboard key is better than numbers. When you actually type an え, you type 'e', so it's a useful mapping to learn in terms of how IME works.
2. For vocabulary, there should be an option to turn off romaji in favor of kana only. No explanation needed I think
3. The vocab quiz, between kanji and just an english word, is an anti-pattern in my opinion. Recognizing the meaning if vocab in a full japanese sentence is a much better basic quiz, especially since not all words have 1-1 mappings. It also doesn't quiz on the reading, which seems weird. Also, an easy example of something confusing there is that 辺 is 'area', but if I see 'area' my first thought is 面積 (like the area of a triangle), while 辺 would be edge in that context... and my second thought is 地域, like "the area of the country I grew up in". I think 辺 is maybe 4th or 5th for 'area', and that's just because 'area' is a broad english word. My point is, quizzing vocab -> english word, without reading, without an example sentence, is a recipe to confuse learner's brains.
4. Same complaints as vocab for the kanji quiz, but moreso since kanji's meaning is more abstract.
The beautiful aesthetic and open-source way to learn Japanese is to make Anki flash cards, and customize the cards using html (which it already supports).
This entire site could have been anki decks, and then it would have had spaced repetition for free, and users could even more easily edit things to suit themselves ad add to it.
For studying N5 and N4, I’ve found Bunpro’s lesson grouping by JLPT levels a really nice format. It’s been encouraging seeing a progress bar for each step of the journey. I’d suggest looking for inspo there too if that interests you.
On the test screens I was expecting there to be an option to shown the answers (ie cheat mode) so I could go through and get 100% score first few times.
And use that as a kind of flash card mode to get my footing in understanding stuff.
Then move out of cheat mode and see if I learnt anything!
Might be good to allow the kanji/vocabulary to be filtered by JLPT or Jouyou stage. Picking multiple sets on the kanji units was a bit tedious, it's be nice to 'pick all' for a drill (but I was using it to test myself rather than learn new ones). I don't understand the pick options (pick, reverse, input, output) - they seem superfluous and perhaps need tooltips. Maybe add audio recordings at some point, although that's a bunch of work. You can use AI to generate it of course and it will be mostly correct as far as individual words go, but Japanese AI voices still seem to get pitch shapes and timing wrong sometimes.
Edit: I didn't realise there were multiple modes either until I stumbled upon that as well
anyway drilling vocab/characters isn't the same thing as learning a language
Unfortunately, pretty much all language learning apps are closed-sourced and paid these days, and the ones that are free have unfortunately been abandoned.
But of course, just creating yet another language learning app was not enough - there has to be a unique selling point. And then I thought to myself: why not make it crazy and do what no other language learning app ever did by adding a gazillion different color themes and fonts, to really hit it home and honor the app's original inspiration, Monkeytype?
And so I did. Now, I'm looking to find contributors and testers for the early stages of the app.
Why? Because weebs and otakus deserve to have a 100% free, beautiful, quality language learning app too！
For anyone interested, you can check it out at --> https://kanadojo.com and let me know what you think ^ ^
I'd love to collaborate, but I think we've got to look at overall concept first. There's a lot of information on the screen and it's not really clear how the learner journeys through. Greatly reducing the amount of info on the screen at once, focusing learner's attention on a single path would be helpful.
There's many theories of language acquisition, but I think Krashen is most on-point: we learn through comprehensible input. New vocabulary really needs to be encountered in context of meaningful sentences that are understandable to the learner. Further, when training, production with spaced repetition is really the most effective strategy.
I'd love to see there be a really great free learning tool that brings a pedagogically sound approach to Japanese learners!
Mainly because of the content. Designing a beautiful UI and framework is one thing, but what is your plan for pooling together enough effort to produce enough learning material that the app becomes a meaningful learning resource?
Some alternatives:
出 means "to go out or exit" and doesn't have anything to do with learning Kanji. 言 means "to say" and is only tangentially related to learning vocabulary.
Still, great job!