"the group was seeking government aid of about $24 million to relaunch the company."
sure, let's throw away another $24 million in a company that failed
ccppurcell · 18h ago
Wait I don't understand is this just an excuse? Is this a slightly more subtle example of an "anti" movement being emboldened by what's happening in the US, despite the same legal framework not applying? Like the anti abortionists in Europe are on the rise. Or is there a legitimate reason that it depends a bit on US policy?
passwordoops · 14h ago
Nothing "anti" about this decision. The province's credit rating was recently downgraded (1). Investing in a struggling local company that had a dim outlook even before the US election (2) would be a tough sell.
Yeah, but aren't these bussed mostly subject to state policy and not federal policy?
StressedDev · 1h ago
Tariffs, imports, and exports are controlled by the Federal,Government of the United States of America. The states have no power in these areas.
satanfirst · 17h ago
If there is a federal tariff on Canadian vehicles that applies then everyone including states has to decide if they want to purchase what they intended or keep the budget they planned.
ZeroGravitas · 15h ago
I read it as the opposite. A business that's already in trouble that has cross border entanglements in the current climate and can't get private support is a perfectly reasonable time for a government to cut off money.
The only bit where slowing electrification comes up is the first sentence, which felt like an attempt to spin fallout from Trump chaos as people waking up to the folly of electrification instead.
ccppurcell · 14h ago
Yeah that's what I hoped but there wasn't much discussion of the company in question.
pluc · 16h ago
We just completely lost all investments in Northvolt so the government is being very careful with high profile investments into renewables, especially when we've bankrolled them before and they couldn't deliver.
Animats · 20h ago
They'll have to buy from BYD, like everybody else.
xethos · 20h ago
I'm sitting in a battery-electric bus from New Flyer this very minute. BYD is hardly the only bus OEM around
rsynnott · 15h ago
There are _loads_ of electric bus manufacturers; many of the big incumbent manufacturers, at least in Europe, literally have the same chassis in electric and non-electric versions. My local bus system uses these, for instance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_StreetDeck#StreetDeck_E... - they're available in plain diesel, light hybrid, hydrogen, and electric.
Even for double deckers, which are a bit of a niche and really mostly only used in Ireland and the UK in Europe, there are at least four big manufacturers, only one of which is BYD.
sudosysgen · 18h ago
Quebec (ARTM/STM) already uses electric buses from Novabus (Volvo), so no.
jagger27 · 20h ago
Which Canada currently tariffs at 100% (long predates Trump’s scheme).
cwillu · 19h ago
“Long predates” is overstating it, the 100% tariff was put in place in october 2024, following the u.s.'s lead.
euroderf · 11h ago
Was there some policy reason to follow the US lead ? Follow the Leader does not sound like a valid rationale.
jagger27 · 7h ago
Because of the tightly integrated and codependent auto industries across both countries.
Kon-Peki · 21h ago
> Public Auction Due to closure of US EV Manufacturing facility – Short Notice!
Electric buses are not just about the environment.
They are also so much more comfortable.
Less noisy, less rattly.
I would think it makes society healthier to have quieter, less annoying ways to commute.
hedora · 19h ago
Also, they produce less soot, nox and carbon monoxide for the kids to breathe.
n_ary · 15h ago
The best thing about EBs is, they do not hum and vibrate so much making it feel like the bus is about to transform into some Decepticon bot any minute now.
sudosysgen · 18h ago
Quebec already has electric city buses built in partnership with Novabus and Hydro-Quebec, they are pretty widespread in Montreal.
This is something else, a startup that I've only ever seen schoolbuses from.
OsrsNeedsf2P · 17h ago
They're also more expensive, so cities buy fewer of them, leading to more cars on the road, worsening the problem
mg · 17h ago
Only more expensive in terms of the initial purchase price. Maintenance and energy costs are much lower than for a gasoline bus.
snkzxbs · 15h ago
Until you have to change the battery a few years later and it’s cheaper to buy a new bus.
bbarnett · 14h ago
Actually, this is an interesting point.
Batteries tend to have a max charge/discharge cycle. Unlike a consumer car, buses see a lot more distance. I wonder how much more quickly the batteries go.
rlpb · 4h ago
AIUI, as EV fleets age, we're learning that it's the depth of charge and discharge that degrades batteries, not the total power throughput. Staying within 20% and 80% makes most of the difference to longevity. Additionally, they seem to degrade to about 80% of original capacity and then plateau, and are generally lasting much longer than initially expected.
lesuorac · 12h ago
The lithium doesn't escape from a battery like it does from a gas tank.
I would expect a large scale operator to recover a lot of money from the sale of those rare earth minerals.
bbarnett · 11h ago
Large or small operator, the recovery amount will be a tiny fraction of the overall battery pack cost. Recycling isn't free, and costs, and assemble + profit margins at both ends.
In short, you're diverting "how often" to "meh, who cares, they're recyclable", without any validation that it negates the cost.
akadruid1 · 14h ago
This isn't true:
> Our results indicate that today's electrified bus fleets are roughly cost comparable to their traditional diesel counterparts
Even if they cost a bit more, they are more reliable, better for the environment and air quality, and are so much quieter.
plorg · 18h ago
Huh. I suppose that bus contract probably does make up a sizeable amount of their business. I last saw them at a trade show where they had their class 5 and 6 cab over truck chasses. There was a huge push for EV package delivery, for which that size was ideal. Their offerings looked pretty polished compared to the competition. I would think the CARB rules (and those in the other states that follow CARB) would stir a bit more demand for Lion's product offerings, but I can see what Quebec would be hesitant about such a company operating internationally in the r current political environment.
0xbadc0de5 · 15h ago
Government should not be backstopping poorly run companies from the consequences of their failure to execute. That will only encourage further irresponsibility.
Copernicron · 9h ago
Does that apply to Boeing too? Letting poorly run companies fail runs the risk of causing national security problems when you're suddenly dependent on a hostile power for parts of your supply chain.
StressedDev · 1h ago
I am not sure what your point is. If Boeing went bankrupt, someone could buy them and the company would continue running. Also, Boeing is not the most important defense contractor in the US. They don’t make the F35 and they don’t make the new B21 Raider. The world is not going to end if Boeing disappears.
1. https://www.ctvnews.ca/montreal/article/sp-global-lowers-que...
2. https://globalnews.ca/news/10673318/lion-electric-300-more-l...
The only bit where slowing electrification comes up is the first sentence, which felt like an attempt to spin fallout from Trump chaos as people waking up to the folly of electrification instead.
Here's another example, available in diesel, plugin hybrid, electric, and _natural gas_: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Dennis_Enviro400_Cit... (my local system uses the hybrid version of these).
Even for double deckers, which are a bit of a niche and really mostly only used in Ireland and the UK in Europe, there are at least four big manufacturers, only one of which is BYD.
https://workingmancapital.com/auction/lion-electric-chicago-...
They are also so much more comfortable.
Less noisy, less rattly.
I would think it makes society healthier to have quieter, less annoying ways to commute.
This is something else, a startup that I've only ever seen schoolbuses from.
Batteries tend to have a max charge/discharge cycle. Unlike a consumer car, buses see a lot more distance. I wonder how much more quickly the batteries go.
I would expect a large scale operator to recover a lot of money from the sale of those rare earth minerals.
In short, you're diverting "how often" to "meh, who cares, they're recyclable", without any validation that it negates the cost.
> Our results indicate that today's electrified bus fleets are roughly cost comparable to their traditional diesel counterparts
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0967070X2...