Modernising the Amiga at Forty

50 freediver 27 7/29/2025, 5:55:32 AM benjamin.computer ↗

Comments (27)

mrandish · 3h ago
For those in the bay area, the Amiga 040th anniversary is this weekend at the Computer History Museum (in conjunction with the Vintage Computer Festival West). Looks like quite a line-up of Amiga technical sessions, history and luminaries.
amiga386 · 11h ago
I appreciate the experimentation with new software, and the overview of the various OS versions, but the elephant in the room is the Vampire "accelerator".

It's not an accelerator. It's a full hardware Amiga emulator that uses the actual Amiga as a simple I/O daughterboard. You're not really operating your Amiga hardware at this point, you're using the Vampire. I'd say it's _equivalent_ to running a PiMiga (also not an amiga), or if you hooked up something that turned your Amiga's keyboard and mouse/joystick ports into USB devices, then plugged them into a PC running WinUAE - which is entirely fine to do, but none are really using a real Amiga as an actual computer

glimshe · 6h ago
I've been noticing it for a while. Might as well put one of the Amazon $200 Mini PCs in an Amiga computer case and call that "Amiga" (while running Windows/Linux). That hardware would be an order of magnitude faster than the fastest true Amiga ever released.
fidotron · 10h ago
The Amiga scene has been headed this way for decades - it's deeply bizarre. At what point do these things stop being Amigas? PowerPCs? GPUs? FPGAs? A whole separate memory bus?

It's a bit like some retro car modding scene where as long as the car body looks kind of familiar it's all fair game.

caboteria · 9h ago
> At what point do these things stop being Amigas?

Ah, the classic "Ship of Tramiel" gedankenexperiment.

flohofwoe · 7h ago
IMHO it's quite simple: Can it run Amiga software? If yes it's an Amiga, if no it's not :)
glimshe · 6h ago
I have an Amiga phone in my hands right now, then :)
twoodfin · 5h ago
Turing be praised!
bitwize · 10h ago
http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/A/Amiga-Persecution-Complex....

There is a belief among Amiga enthusiasts that the Amiga should have won, that had it not been for sabotage from without (e.g., Microsoft) as well as sabotage from within (upper management, particularly Irving Gould, being interested in squeezing profits out of the C64 and existing Amiga lines rather than R&D), the Amiga would have been a decade or more ahead of the rest of the industry and may have become the dominant computing platform. Kitting out Amigas with more advanced hardware than any real Amiga would have been able to be contemporaneously equipped with thus becomes an alternate reality game: what if Commodore hadn't failed? what if the Amiga were still a contender into the late 90s and beyond? To borrow your analogy, it's like kitting out a 1967 Chevy Impala with a modern engine and drivetrain, to imagine what it would have been like had the values of the '67 Impala, including looks and the sense of being fun to drive, had persisted into the era of fuel injection and continuously-variable transmissions. Maybe it's not an Amiga in terms of actual Amiga hardware configurations, but the idea is that in this alternate universe, what an Amiga is would have changed.

krige · 8h ago
> Linux users used to display symptoms very frequently before Linux started winning

this made me laugh, good stuff

mrandish · 4h ago
> what if Commodore hadn't failed? what if the Amiga were still a contender into the late 90s and beyond?

As a hardcore Amiga user and developer from 1985 to 95, the platform was amazing for the time but having studied the history, talked with some of the key players and thought about it a lot (probably too much), I've sadly come to the conclusion there was no way the Amiga could have survived the 90s as a viable platform. As a retro enthusiast and tech history buff I find it interesting to play the hypothetical game "Time Traveler's Ten" where we go back in time and change up to ten critical decisions or mistakes that were made. Given the same constraints as existed then (financial, technical, market, etc) if different paths were taken and key mistakes avoided can we change the eventual outcome? No matter which decisions or which alternate choices we make, there's no way to take the Amiga as it originally shipped in 1985 and plausibly play the facts and choices into it being a significant and financially viable third platform behind Wintel and Mac in 2000. Even if we mind-control Commodore Chairman Irving Gould to invest the company's resources in R&D instead of pillaging them, even if Microsoft supports the Amiga as much as the Mac - it helps the Amiga sell more and survive a few years longer but eventually only delays the inevitable. As someone who had "Amiga Persecution Complex", this deeper understanding has laid to rest those feelings of being "robbed of a glorious future by a few stupid mistakes."

The reality is there were tectonic shifts changing the computer landscape. The first was the shift from CISC to RISC. Motorola saw the writing on the wall long before the 68060 was even announced that the 68K architecture was a dead end. They decided continuing to pour resources into optimizing the 68K to be competitive was too costly and would become a losing game (probably correctly given their fab technology and corporate resources), and instead chose to break with the past and partner with IBM in moving to Power PC. For Atari, Commodore, Apple et al this was a planetary level asteroid impact. If developers and customers lose all software compatibility with your new products, that makes the choice of moving to your next generation not much different than moving to another platform entirely. Only Apple managed to survive (and even they almost didn't). Arguably, they only treaded water with great design and marketing until saved by the iPod.

We also need to consider the other huge asteroid heading for vertically integrated non-Wintel computer platforms right behind the CISC/RISC asteroid. In the early to mid 90s Moore's Law scaling was allowing desktop computers to improve rapidly by growing dramatically more complex. It was getting to be more than one company could do to win on each separate front. On the Wintel side, the market solved this complexity by splitting the challenge among different ecosystems of companies. One ecosystem would compete to make the CPU and chipset (Intel, NEC, Cyrix, AMD), another would make the OS (Windows/OS/2), another ecosystem would compete to make the best graphics and yet another would compete on sound (Creative, Yamaha, Ensoniq, etc). It would require a truly extraordinary company to compete effectively against all that with a custom vertically integrated computer. There was no way a Commodore or Atari could survive that onslaught. The game changed from company vs company to ecosystem vs ecosystem. And that next asteroid even wiped out stronger, better-capitalized companies that were on pure RISC architectures (Sun, SGI, Apollo, etc).

Finally, it's clear that post 1990 both Atari and Commodore were in increasingly weaker positions, not only financially but in terms of staff depth. While both still had some remarkably talented engineers, the bench wasn't deep. I know that at least at Commodore, toward the end they'd canceled their much improved, new Amiga chipset project (AAA). Even though it was almost complete with (mostly) working test silicon on prototype boards, they canceled it because it had become obvious future Pentium and RISC CPUs would outperform even the 68060 and AAA custom chips. At the time the company folded, Commodore engineering was working on the 'Hombre', an entirely new design which would have been based on an HP RISC CPU. For graphics the main thrust would have been new retargetable graphics modes for hi-res, high-frequency monitors (1280 x 1024). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_Hombre_chipset

The plan was to support legacy Amiga software with a 68K emulator on the RISC CPU driving a new chip created specifically to support legacy Amiga graphics modes. When I later read this, I was quite skeptical that Commodore could have developed hybrid software/hardware emulation in 18 months that would have covered enough of the legacy Amiga software library. Looking at the history of Amiga software emulators shows how hard it would have been. Also, as much as I loved the Amiga, the OS stack could then only be described as 'crufty'. It had been upgraded a little over the years but still contained major legacy components from different eras and many of the people involved were no longer at Commodore. Given that reality, the plan had been to base the new Amiga on Windows NT.

But - even if Commodore somehow overcame the myriad technical challenges, lack of resources and depleted talent bench, once a next-gen Amiga isn't based on the 68K, AmigaOS or the custom chips and boots Windows NT in XGA mode - is it still really an Amiga? Certainly, at least some of my software wouldn't have worked so, facing the decision to buy a new, quite different computer, why wouldn't users also look at the, probably, cheaper Packard Bell Pentium running Windows 95 down at Costco? After all, with the Pentium and Windows 95, the PC juggernaut had finally coalesced into a coherent whole that could be compelling to both home users and graphics, gaming, multimedia obsessed hobbyists. And new Doom/Quake quality games were coming out almost weekly.

No matter how we play the cards we're dealt, the historical deck is too stacked against the Amiga and the Time Traveler Ten game always ends with an unwinnable hand. While Commodore (and Atari, Sinclair et al) did make many mistakes, none of them were the root cause of their eventual demise. In each case, macro factors beyond their control that were baked into the market, the technology or their own DNA, had already sealed their fate. One of the Amiga's greatest advantages in 1985 was the brilliant custom chip set designed to exploit every quirk of analog video timing. As resolutions increased and 3D became essential in the 90s that huge advantage, arguably the reason we still talk about it, turned into one of the Amiga's biggest weaknesses. In many ways the Amiga blazed the trail showing the way to the future - but it was a future it wouldn't be a part of.

anotherlab · 3h ago
As an Amiga developer and user in the same timeframe, I could see the handwriting on the wall. The consumer market had shifted to Windows 3.1 and then 95 on those awful Packard Bell computers. I like the asteroid analogy. The Wintel commodity took out the boutiques.

An Hombre-based Amiga would have been interesting, but I wouldn't have bought one.

mrandish · 2h ago
> An Hombre-based Amiga would have been interesting

I wouldn't have bought an Hombre either because I doubt I would have seen it as really an Amiga. My regret is that the earlier AAA chip set was never completed and shipped because I would have bought that computer. It wouldn't have changed the Amiga's eventual fate but we'd have another really interesting machine that would have likely been more of what we love about the Amiga from a retro perspective.

TheAmazingRace · 2h ago
There was talk that the Hombre graphics chipset would have also been available as an add-in PCI card, possibly even compatible with bog-standard Pentium PCs. If that had happened... Commodore could have been the first company ever to have released a proper 3D accelerator, years before 3Dfx or Nvidia hit the scene with their offerings.

Frankly, this would have been a worthwhile pivot getting into 3D accelerators if the Amiga gambit wouldn't have paid off in the long run.

kazinator · 3h ago
Not to forget that the boutiques didn't overcome Apple MacIntoshes either.
vidarh · 2h ago
I'm not convinced we'd have liked the direction with Hombre, but consider how the Amiga community did embrace PowerPC. It's clear a substantial portion of the community is willing to accept large breaks with the hardware. To me, elements of the OS are far more important, and I find my Linux environment gets closer and closer... I even have assigns of a sort...
layer8 · 2h ago
The Mac successfully transitioned from 68K to PPC and beyond, so why not the Amiga?

You’re probably still right, but I think the argument is a little more complex.

scj · 2h ago
Could Commodore have made a financially successful low-cost Amiga laptop circa 1991 - 1993?
bitwize · 2h ago
You explained and elaborated very well on why I've always thought the PC was doomed to win. By the early 1990s, IBM compatible hardware was not under the control of a single company anymore. It was an ecosystem which could survive the death of any one company, and where innovation can be driven forward by any of its participating companies. Suddenly the Amiga's custom chips don't seem so sexy anymore; before 1995, PCs were rocking high-res video cards with their own blitters and sound hardware capable of CD-quality sound, in multiple channels sometimes (see Gravis UltraSound). The main proprietary link was now in software, to wit: Windows, but when Linux came along Windows was no longer the sole linchpin.

So I think you're right. There's no universe in which the Amiga was a serious contender. Every company is at risk of management blunders or changing market tides, and the scene is littered with the corpses of proprietarily integrated platforms that fell with their parent companies: not just the Amiga but Atari ST, SGI, Sun, DEC, Lisp machines, etc. The PC ecosystem outlasted them all and just kept going on, delivering the advantages those systems had in a cheaper, more accessible package.

The sole exception was Apple. I think Apple won in the long run by subsidizing Mac development with iPod/iPhone/iPad sales, and what this means is yet another market turn away from general purpose computing and toward devices that only run approved curated "apps" and are discarded rather than upgraded. Maybe Commodore could have anticipated this back in the day, but it would have been against the Amiga spirit I think.

I still love my Amiga 500. What it can do was amazing in the late 1980s, and I'm content to appreciate that for what it is.

emchammer · 7h ago
There were Windows, DOS, and CP/M boards available for Apple, IBM, SGI and other heterogeneous hardware in the 1980s and 1990s. I don’t see what the big deal is now.
vidarh · 2h ago
And for the Amiga. The Amiga 2000 has ISA slots, and the bridge board let you run PC apps in a window.

My Amiga 2000 had a 68000 CPU, a 68020 accelerator, an 8086 on the bridge board, a 286 accelerator, a Z80 on the SCSI controller, and of course the 6502 compatible in the keyboard....

(of course only up to 4 of those were in use at any one time)

bitwize · 10h ago
Indeed, there is a model of Vampire, the Vampire Standalone, which is pretty much just straight up an Amiga on FPGA with lots of advanced goodies that speculate on what a mid-late 90s Amiga might look like (CPU ~100MHz, 3D acceleration, 16mil colors, etc.).

https://www.apollo-computer.com/v4standalone.php

krige · 10h ago
I'd heard Vampire's compatibility can be spotty and you can obviously see why. My own 1200 is kept very barebones by design (just a spot of fast ram and a CF drive) to keep max compatibility with the software I do want to run there instead of trying to convince everyone it can still be a viable do-anything system in 2025. Although a TerribleFire (an actual accelerator, unlike the Vampire) is very tempting at times...
bitwize · 9h ago
Yeah. I have an A500, and it pleases me very much to keep it at its base configuration, with the exception of a Gotek floppy emulator and maybe, eventually, an IDE card. I have plenty of modern PCs for modern PC tasks. The idea of being inventive with what the capabilities of the original-spec hardware were pleases me more than attempting to turn it into a more modern machine.
kwanbix · 4h ago
1486.31 €. Crazy.
ilaksh · 8h ago
Very interesting content thank you. I don't understand why you would not use a CRT with this (especially if you are showing off your setup) or why you would have that lamp on right next to the screen just providing glare.
ahjetz4_1 · 8h ago
...ah... but...but xbox (2001) and you may do your programming in a virtual-machine, too? *Heck' there was a chip-mod to play own software, not? It seem to be the same, but (sry, non computer-anthropolgist here)...maybe useful and "eben anders" (german)? and it tooked me 25,- Bucks to get one of these (3D able) ~700MHz "Heavy-Weights" and sure there are still Games around... PS: I'd not know that there was a Amiga 5000 ^^

Quoting: "Applications are fun and fast!" Randomly attached (but viewable) stuff:

[1]: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/05/the-a-eon-amiga-x500...

[2]: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/neuro...