I felt like I was dying at 35 years old, my body was completely betraying me, exhausted, constant pain, no life as absolutely no energy on days off and still exhausted starting the next week. Even years in the Army never left me feeling like that
I had no idea it was the misery of the IT job that was causing most of my pain and suffering, and it had nothing to do with the job itself, it was the endless insanity of everyone else around me doing exactly what they were informed would cause problems instead of having discussions with people that actually knew how shit worked. I was endlessly picking up everyone elses mess and treated worse than a pile of shit all because people were incapable of having a speck of respect for other people since all their hatred for computers fell on me
I GTFO of the career of misery and took half a decade to finally start feeling better
I have now spent years and countless hours working on software and I greatly enjoy doing this work again and find I get even more done than I used to simply by doing life the way I need to instead of how some backwards/abusive control freak "needs it done"
mdavid626 · 12m ago
Can you tell us how you recovered?
jdbsbsndn · 2h ago
Great to hear you are feeling better now!
That being said, how sure are you it wasn't a you problem, since the rest of the company seemed to be fine with the way they operated?
aspbee555 · 2h ago
the owner instructed everyone not to talk to me, I found out years later
if it was a me problem then they would not have let the then president of the company go for working with me
I was not the one with communication problems but people are really good at blaming me for their own problems
Buttons840 · 2h ago
That is the same problem I had in my most stressful position.
I was working for a consulting company:
The first project I worked on was great, some of the most enjoyable work I've done at a company.
Then the second project came (same company, same client). Things weren't going so well, so I started talking about the problems that everyone was having, and started talking about how we could fix the problems...
... and that's when the real problem revealed itself. The project manager on the client-side was secretly trying to replace my consulting company with another consulting company (where he had friends). However, my consulting company had ties with higher management at the client company, and my consulting company didn't want to abandon the work, because they wanted the money, of course.
In the end, it was revealed that our team of programmers was surrounded on all sides by people that didn't care about solving the same problem, they only cared about the political games.
It was extremely stressful. I got shingles, and was diagnosed with celiac disease in the same week. It's hard to say for sure, but I think the celiac disease was activated by the stress--I still have it to this day obviously.
My advice to others:
(1) Identify the problem (2) Communicate with the people that are needed to fix the problem (3) Work towards fixing the problem
If at any point communication breaks down, or you realize management is not trying to solve the same problems you are trying to solve, then you need to GTFO.
paulryanrogers · 2h ago
And vaccinate your kids against chicken pox. Don't intentionally expose them repeatedly. Get yourself vaccinated for shingles, if it's not too late.
e40 · 1h ago
Stress is so damaging to our bodies. Glad you got relief!
vertigolimbo · 2h ago
So you went back into software development after 5 years? Maybe you had a burnout and just needed to rest
imhoguy · 1h ago
I read it that OP has left IT and rested then got back to some freelance/co-op/own softwate development.
I am on the same fence, just on my notice period in the shit show called corporate IT where there is 90% time spent on toxic politics.
Now dreaming to burn some savings, detox and then play with Raspberry Pi projects.
foobiekr · 2h ago
What do you do for a living post-escaping the IT career?
foobiekr · 2h ago
I have a pretty severe back injury - double pars fracture and significant spondylolisthesis from an accident (not a car accident). For many years i was in incredible pain, but it just kept going, sometimes getting a lot worse. When this happened I would go get some imaging done to make sure there weren't degenerative changes that needed to be addressed - you should never, ever get back surgery if you don't need it, so I am cautious about it. But I noticed something, all on my own, and that is that it seemed to correlate with periods of intense stress. I still have a ton of stress, but recognizing that actually kind of made a tremendous difference.
I hesitate to add a link to this on the thread, but there is an interesting story around chronic pain actually being psychological and there are now some high quality studies coming out.
I didn't know about any of this and had never been exposed to any of it when I drew my conclusions and started to feel less pain. Don't get me wrong, there are still things that will set my back off, but now I probably go actual years without even thinking about it.
gleenn · 16m ago
"You should never, ever get back surgery" sounds like that easily could be wrong. It's annoying to have to always caveat but talking to a (good) doctor is important when making such decisions and not relying on tech forum advice necessarily. I know someone who said they went in for back surgery and walked out feeling permanently cured from the specific problem they had and the pain was completely gone. Details matter. Always consult experts when possible.
“As pain becomes chronic, it is increasingly associated with activity in the affective and motivational systems tied to avoidance and less closely tied to systems encoding nociceptive input” [1]
I’ve been on the slippery slope of chronic pain. Minor post surgery issues caused me to change my routine and avoid certain activities which only exacerbated the issues, which led to more avoidance. Eventually I couldn’t walk.
The American medical system is very focused on avoiding health issues that show up on mri, rather than quality of life health. But quality of life issues quickly become serious.
I think the middle ground of activity: not all out intense as if you are healthy, but also not avoiding movement is so challenging to find for many people but also so crucial. A lot of chronic pain for myself and I suspect for many others could be avoided with short and quick combination of therapy and daily movement. So simple but so challenging to effectively identify and allocate resources.
Not suggesting this is the total solution but it’s the pathway that I took to return to activity and I’ve seen it help a number of my friends as well.
> used me to change my routine and avoid certain activities which only exacerbated the issues, which led to more avoidance. Eventually I couldn’t walk.
Anecdotally, I had a phase where pretty much the same thing happened to me with the Achilles (+ calf/ankle) flare-ups I was having (during this part of my chronic journey). Eventually got through it by doing small walks around my home, then outside but keeping the frequency high each day (i.e. instead of 1 "long" walk, doing 3-4 short ones). I.e. Desensitisation / daily movement
kianN · 2h ago
Splitting up activity to bite sized chunks was critical for me as well. It prevents over straining but I think more importantly it also prevents you from being stagnant for an extended period of time.
kccqzy · 3h ago
> Minor post surgery issues
My wife has had two surgeries and each time she had a minor post surgery issue. One of them was an area that was tender to touch; another was chronic pain. Neither was mentioned as a possible side effect of the surgery by the surgeon. The main takeaway even if a bit extreme here is avoid all surgeries unless absolutely necessary.
zdragnar · 3h ago
Depending on the underlying issue, delaying a surgery could easily lead to needing an even more invasive or extensive procedure, with worse complications or side effects. A blanket avoidance of all surgeries is a great way to be even more miserable.
Anecdotal case: My wife broke her arm some 10 years ago or so. She was really upset about potential recovery time, insurance copayments and such, especially since she was (at the time) a single mother. The doctor suggested setting it and letting it heal on its own, which was absolutely the wrong call. Had she gotten surgery straight away, she would have recovered by the time she actually ended up getting surgery.
I've often wondered if there wasn't a malpractice case that could have been made, but it was before we met so that's lost to time.
SoftTalker · 23m ago
Any time you have surgery, especially anything to repair a bone, joint, muscle, or tendon, do the post-op physical therapy religously. Do not skip it. It will be uncomfortable at first, but stick with it. If you slack off or don't do it, you may end up with persistent pain and mobility issues.
Retric · 3h ago
Surgery is a bigger deal than doctors make it seem, but after surgery care can make a huge difference.
I had a surgery asked for more pain meds once on day 5 or 6. Instead the surgeon had me come in to look at the wound, made a tiny incision a blob of pus came out and things felt fine the next day. That’s the kind of thing that could have easily resulted in major problems, but just the right treatment at just the right time fixed it.
theshackleford · 2h ago
> Instead the surgeon had me come in to look at the wound
I'm surprised this is not the standard for any surgery involving a significant incision. In my country it's been the standard for instance for all three of my cervical spine surgeries, including the one I just had.
At the 7-10 day mark I must go to my normal GP who performs wound review and checks for signs of infection or other anomaly.
Retric · 2h ago
It was standard to have a follow up. He called me in early, the same day they called. And he looked to it himself rather than having a GP do so.
theshackleford · 1h ago
Oh ok that makes sense, for a second it just sounded like it would have went I caught otherwise and I began wondering if maybe this wasn’t as much of a standard as I thought it was.
TaupeRanger · 2h ago
Vasectomies are never “absolutely necessary”, but the risk of chronic pain (very small) vs the risk of unintended pregnancy, risk to the partner, or potential financial hardship, can make it a good decision. It’s never black and white in medicine.
littlexsparkee · 1h ago
I learned this the hard way, got achilles/ankle tendon issues trying to rest from a joint problem instead of ramping up activity which would've made me more resilient.
anticensor · 3h ago
Pain is a legitimate diagnosis, though.
zdragnar · 2h ago
Pain is a symptom. There's a strong psychological component to pain avoidance which can lead to behaviors that make it worse. Physical therapy isn't going to feel good, but it plays an important role in lots of recovery scenarios, and I think should be more often prescribed after surgeries.
I deal with fibromyalgia pain. When I first developed it, I pretty much avoided doing anything, and really that was the opposite of what I should have done. There's no "recovery" and really no avoiding it; all I ended up doing was letting my physical condition weaken to the point that even normal activities were painful, so I was hurting for two reasons.
Treating the underlying cause of the symptom, and training to avoid behaviors that exacerbate the symptom is the real key.
glasscannon · 5h ago
I recently decided to go all in on addressing chronic pain - a condition which affects an estimated 1/5 adults in the US[1] and nearly the same proportion in my country of Australia.
This is the first of several blog posts exploring this invisible condition.
If you're passionate about this space feel free to reach out, thanks!
[Edit] Thanks so much everyone! Excited to get the next article out soon!
j_bum · 3h ago
Hi Dan, I wanted to share a few links to articles on pain and circadian rhythms that I wrote during my PhD. Would love to connect if you have any questions.
Would love to connect/chat. Will read over these in the meantime.
agumonkey · 1h ago
Hi, thanks for the thread, what are the websites you follow the most to read about this topic ?
Sometimes I wish there was a medHN
eloycoto · 5h ago
Awesome!I had two tumours in my hip and I lost around 90% of a few muscles. Pain is my friend since I started this journey, and I need to say, that learn how to deal with that should be the first treatment!
I'll read this blog with love!
Thanks
mattgreenrocks · 4h ago
I’ve been dealing with chronic reflux for about 8 mos now. On PPIs and they don’t seem to do much. But once I get away from my typical routine of work/dadding then all the symptoms vanish, even to the point of being able to eat foods that are not good for reflux: spicy things, tomatoes, a bit of coffee. In my case, this is absolutely a downstream symptom of something mind-body. Already been scoped and got a diagnosis of visceral hypersensitivity, which is medical speak for “nerves in esophagus are too sensitive.”
The question of why is out of scope.
In this case, docs just don’t know why. (I think it kinda pisses them off not know, tbh). And finding out is not really in their wheelhouse.
I’ve made some life changes (new job) to see what happens here. But I also have to be prepared for the possibility that it doesn’t fix it. Been working through The Body Keeps The Score as well.
Looking forward to seeing what the author discusses here.
Chyzwar · 1m ago
For me intermittent fasting after 6pm and small diet changes fixed my acid reflux. PPI were not helping and making things worse. I actually took Betaine HCI supplements to fix digestive issues after PPIs.
This exercise fixed it for me. I was diagnosed with GERD last year, I already had it for 2-3 years before that, but it got worse last year. I got ppis for a couple of months and when I finished all of them it came back worse. Fortunately I found this article, and I started doing the exercise daily morning after I woke up(and still do it). I can now eat tomatoes, food with mint, spicy food etc etc :)
I have shared my experience with others and it helped them too
Edit - Changed the link, had posted something else by mistake
Since reading the above HN comments, I have lost ten pounds and (mostly) stopped drinking carbonated beverages. My GERD is vastly reduced.
¢¢
mattgreenrocks · 1h ago
Thanks for this, will add it to the experiment queue while I work on losing the slight dad bod I have going on.
jrgoff · 2h ago
Thanks for this - it looks interesting, I'm planning on giving it a try for my low level reflux that's been bothering me for over a decade (but always had other health issues that seemed higher priorities to try to address).
eddythompson80 · 4h ago
> In this case, docs just don’t know why. (I think it kinda pisses them off not know, tbh). And finding out is not really in their wheelhouse.
Chronic reflux as a symptom is almost always initially treated by PPIs because the cause among white collar workers is assumed to be chronic stress[1]. Since doctors can't "treat stress" only its symptoms, they will just tell you to try and manage stressors in your life yourself. Maybe suggest counseling but in general they are limited in what they can do. What they can do, if you are persistent in the complaint, is to just run through all the other less likely causes of it.
I was lucky omeprazole worked for me the first time. I knew exactly what was stressing me out 24/7 and the acid reflux and frequent belching combined with the "pit in my stomach" feeling was all too common and connected around my main stressor. In my case, it started 8 months after accepting a role shift from engineering into management. I was cautiously excited initially, but it just soured very quickly. I would feel physical angst parking at work every morning trying to remind myself of all the web of political infighting "what our team is hiding from this other team", "who we can discuss what with", "how that other team is actively undermining us and their other downstream partners, but how we are circumventing that" how to 4d chess maneuver yourself in the most counterproductive ways possible. It was illuminating on where a lot of those special "business requirements" come from sometimes, but it just wasn't for me. Cutting that out was a massive relief
[1]: Stress and glucocorticoids have well documented effects on the digestive system. I recommend the "Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers" book chapter on stress and the digestive system.
mattgreenrocks · 1h ago
> it started 8 months after accepting a role shift from engineering into management. I was cautiously excited initially, but it just soured very quickly.
Thanks for the edit that added this. Very similar experience as this.
It's BS that IC ladders top out at quasi-management roles, but perhaps part of the issue is believing that professional growth is as tidy as a FAANG career ladder (since most companies just copy them wholesale), and that not reaching those rungs reflects on me in any way.
It feels a bit taboo to say, but I believe not everyone can flex into management easily, even part-time. I'm alright at it, but it clearly isn't long-term sustainable.
eddythompson80 · 27m ago
This was years ago now and I came to complete peace and acceptance with it. I don't view it as complete BS tbh. Here is how I look at it:
First of all, there ARE more steps on top of the IC ladder. They are really really exclusive though in our industry. A large company needs thousands of managers, but only a dozen or so those positions. Half those people are really smooth talkers, and the other half are truly remarkable human beings. You can set it as a challenge to yourself to shadow and follow in that direction. It might take you another 10 or 20 years and it might never happen.
The reason I don't view it as BS is because there is a limit on the amount of value a single person can generate. At the end of the day "managers" are viewed as force multipliers. Their job is to direct and control the output of 10 people. A great manager can 2x or 3x the productivity of their team compared to just 10 aimless people with no accountability or structure. Paying that person 2x or 4x is justified. Your entire career in management, from M1 -> CEO is all about trying to convince the one above you that you are a bigger force multiplier than others in your position. That's basically your job.
As an IC, you need to be someone who has had a track record of founding and delivering multiple highly profitable products/business/features/etc. Otherwise, you did, in fact, hit a ceiling of sorts.
From FAANG prospective, for an IC there is a sweet spot between their technical seniority, output vs burnout, and their compensation expectations/asks.
qzw · 3h ago
Western medicine “can’t treat stress” but Eastern medicine definitely claims to be able to. But then so do various nebulous “alternative medicines”. Another comment mentioned deep meditation as being effective, and I believe there are a number of studies that have shown it to have actual effect. I’ll add another tried and true stress cure but with a twist. Exercise has consistently been shown to help reduce stress, but I find that you have to pick an activity that’s different than what you normally do, e.g. if you’re a runner, try swimming or tennis. The goal is to actually raise the stress level while exercising by doing something unfamiliar and therefore more challenging. In my experience, if the exercise is too relaxed or routine, it doesn’t allow your mind to disengage from the other stressors that are causing symptoms. Of course, all this is pure anecdata from an internet rando.
Aurornis · 3h ago
> Western medicine “can’t treat stress”
This is false. Therapy is designed to do just this and it’s readily available in different modalities that have been trialed and studied. You can book an appointment with a therapist today and start working on techniques to build stress resilience and stress handling techniques
> but Eastern medicine definitely claims to be able to. But then so do various nebulous “alternative medicines”.
Much of the allure of so-called Eastern medicines is the feeling that it’s ancient, semi-secret knowledge that is mysteriously superior to modern medicine. There are a lot of herbal medicines that kind of do something, but the effects are small and often prone to rapid tolerance build up and side effects. A large part of the efficacy is getting the patient to believe that the medicine and/or practices are a cure for their ills. Feeling like you’re tapping in to a mysterious ancient solution to stress will encourage a very strong placebo effect, which can actually reduce the stress.
Similarly, when we do randomized trials of medicines for depressive disorder it’s incredible how much the placebo group improves. When people have been told they’re receiving a treatment, it usually helps to some extent even if the treatment does nothing at all!
sampullman · 3h ago
I don't think the allure of Eastern medicine has much to do with a feeling that it's ancient or secret. It's pretty normal here in Taiwan to go to a TCM clinic here in Taiwan for various treatments, including stress. The practitioners have degrees and certifications for it.
I can't say how much is placebo, but there isn't really anything mysterious about it.
Aurornis · 2h ago
The ancient and mysterious part is the idea that it’s based on wisdom passed down through generations and herbal concoctions, as opposed to synthetic medicines tested in RCTs. This is precisely what draws a lot of people to it, and why it falls in the category of alternative medicine.
It’s actually very interesting that many of the herbal compounds they use do have some quantifiable biological activities. So it’s not all placebo, but you’ll also discover that many of the herbs being sold don’t contain the ingredients they claim, don’t contain enough active ingredients to do anything, or might even be contaminated.
I once asked some doctor friends what things they’ll never do after seeing the consequences in their patients. One of the most surprising answers, to me, was that they avoided TCM and Avurvedic medicines. Apparently they see a lot of people come in with elevated liver enzymes or signs of kidney problems and discover that some TCM or Ayurvedic herbal remedy is causing the damage. Discontinuing the supplement can stop the damage. This happens with megadoses of other supplements too, especially some of the things peddled to gym bros. However, TCM and Ayurvedic supplements seem to catch people by surprise because they assume it’s safer.
qzw · 4h ago
> I think it kinda pisses them off not know, tbh
Oh definitely. Some doctors are physically incapable of uttering the words “I/We don’t know.” I know a few doctors, and have asked a couple of them about this. In private, they’re very frank about the limits of modern medicine. But in front of patients, they’re afraid any sign of uncertainty will lead to patients concluding that some other quackery is just as good as actual medicine. I can definitely understand their perspective, but it does sometimes make them come across as arrogant know-it-alls.
rendaw · 53m ago
I'd be fine with that if the posturing didn't go along with unnecessary medication and the lack of suggestions to search for treatment somewhere better equipped.
qualeed · 3h ago
>But in front of patients, they’re afraid any sign of uncertainty will lead to patients concluding that some other quackery is just as good as actual medicine
This, but also in particularly litigious countries like the USA, they have to be extremely careful of opening up lawsuits.
A doctor saying "I don't know." followed by a bad patient outcome has a pretty high chance of being a lawsuit.
xgb84j · 4h ago
Hey, I just wanted to let you know that I have the _exact_ same issue as you since 2 years. It was much worse than what you described 2 years ago. Now it's just very annoying.
The diagnosis I got from my therapist is PTSD from my chikdhood due to the strong connection between stress and body.
The only thing I found that alleviates my symptoms short term is lots of Buddhist meditation (1-2 hours per day).
I wish you all the best and thank you so much for sharing.
ansc · 3h ago
How'd you get started?
glasscannon · 4h ago
The link between the gut and brain (especially in the case of dietary intolerances) is an interesting one! Keen to see if others have come across good research in the space
fossuser · 4h ago
For me, the two big things that help are losing weight and reduced anxiety. When either are high the problem is noticeable when both are low it’s gone.
Foods make it worse, but it’s rarely an issue if I’m in decent shape and not stressed.
wincy · 3h ago
All of my reflux went away last year when I started tirzepatide via my Zepbound prescription. I was having horrible heartburn daily and it’s just completely gone. I used to take tums and omeprazole literally daily, now it’s basically never.
globnomulous · 1h ago
Just a sidenote: GERD can lead to Barrett's Esophagus (precancerous changes in tissue), and erosive damage to the esophagus can accumulate over time and abruptly become life threatening. After decades of terrible GERD, my father nearly died from exactly such an undetected gastric bleed, losing 11/12 of his blood (which doctors replaced as it coursed out) before an emergency-medicine team finally found and sealed the rupture.
He almost certainly suffered minor brain damage during this episode, and later, after about a decade of taking anti-protonic medications for reflux, developed exactly the abnormally rapidly growing abdominal cancer that patients who take anti-protonics apparently develop at a higher rate than similar GERD patients who don't.
I don't mean to give medical advice. I can only describe what happened in my family (which has a heritable deformation in the esophagus, leading to severe GERD). Take it with a grain of salt (and an antacid) as what it is: an anecdote from some anonymous nonexpert on the internet.
Anyhow, good luck. I'm glad to know you're working actively on the problem, not ignoring it as my father did, and I hope you find some long-term relief and peace.
ruthvik947 · 3h ago
I had this for about a year, and it really only went away when I quit my job. It wasn't even a particularly demanding job, but I guess the lifestyle + the fact that I felt I was wasting my life away might have played a role. Nothing else is really different.
mattgreenrocks · 1h ago
I have had near-debilitating non-GI physical symptoms when it was time to leave a job in the past. I might just be bad at responding to those before it gets to be a five alarm fire.
Worth mentioning is I got the same symptoms (tendinitis) a few months prior to this, but went to PT and got them resolved. Bodies/minds are fun!
anonymars · 3h ago
Most people are familiar with the Peter Principle where it talks about people rising to their level of incompetence.
But I think there's still plenty more that makes it worth a read. For example, something along the lines of, sometimes a man will pop an antacid and lament that their illness is negatively affecting their work, when in fact the causality is exactly reversed
johnisgood · 4h ago
Have you tried H2 blockers?
And as you have said, avoid anything that increases stomach acid production (such as caffeine or even tea, along with spicy food).
You might also have success with Venter[1] (Sucralfate).
Yep. I track which foods affect that and try not to stack them. In addition, I take famotidine in the evening with two different antihistamines.
I suspect I have a histamine intolerance behind it all, as it tends to be comorbid with ehlers-danlos.
nickspacek · 4h ago
Lots of anecdotal cures here, but I'll add Aloe Vera gel to the mix since it seems to help* both soothe/recover/prevent the return of my reflux symptoms for long periods of time.
mattgreenrocks · 3h ago
Gel, as in, applied to your skin?
I love smoothies with aloe Vera juice and freshly grated ginger. I’ve never felt such a powerfully calming sensation from ingesting something before. Can’t tell if it’s the ritual/association or the ingredients.
justinrubek · 4h ago
I seem to have something very similar going on. I'm on the early end of trying to understand it. Coffee was the first indicator because it'd ruin my day to drink some. I hope the best for us.
amelius · 4h ago
I had this for years. Then I took vitamin K2 (about 50mcg per day I think), and after a few months it went away. No idea why, though. Anyway, happy that I can drink coffee again :)
Micanthus · 4h ago
FYI, The Body Keeps The Score is full of misinformation, and is alternately ignored and criticized by other psychiatrists
> The most consequential problem with BKS is its promotion of a large number of treatments, outside of EMDR, that have limited to no evidence (e.g., massage, acupuncture, yoga, community theater, and neurofeedback), according to the latest treatment guidelines by the International Society for Traumatic Stress Studies (Frank et al., 2020), while simultaneously ignoring or criticizing PE and CPT, the two treatments with the highest quality evidence (Sakaluk et al., 2019).
Thanks for posting. I look forward to following along.
I have had chronic pain and other annoying functional neurological symptoms for the past 4 years. It started about halfway throughout my PhD.
I was born with congenital torticollis (fibrosis of the right sternocleidomastoid muscle) and had surgery for this twice when I was young. I also had 3 other surgical procedures for different reasons as a child.
Because my pain started in my neck and shoulder, I was set on believing that my previous surgeries were the cause of my pain. But as I learned more, meditated more, did yoga more, and faced pushback (and lots of confusion) from health professionals, it became clear that my symptoms are mainly "mind-body" (I hate that dualistic term).
I'd be very interested in talking more.
nwienert · 4h ago
As someone who had years of undiagnosable pain and after many years (and more than one doctor trying to suggest it was all in my head) I just want to say to anyone reading who has it -
Don’t let yourself be gaslit that it’s all mental. It seems some do have that, but there are also many hard to diagnose and completely valid physical health conditions that cause terrible chronic pain. And don’t give up on trying to find out what they are. Once I did, I was able to largely manage mine, and more importantly, to stop constantly questioning my own sanity.
Aurornis · 3h ago
> Don’t let yourself be gaslit that it’s all mental.
I agree, though this is a very difficult subject. Often, the people who would benefit the most from psychosomatic interventions are often the most resistant to accepting those explanations. Meanwhile, many of the physical chronic pain sufferers I know have desperately tried various mind-body programs (without success) because they will try anything that might help.
If people match the description of the author of this post and blog, where the pains are widespread, vague, and popping up around different parts of the body without explanation then you really should explore psychosomatic explanations like this author did.
However, I’m growing weary of the trend of people who fit this description starting newsletters they want you to subscribe to (like this one), writing apps they want you to download/buy, and making comments implying that they know better than doctors about chronic pain (while putting an obligatory “not a doctor” disclaimer juxtaposed to their comments complaining that doctors don’t know what they know). I think it’s great when people share their experience, but it’s getting tiresome to see it productized and generalized as a more universal explanation.
EDIT: Another trend in this space is to productize by building an audience (please subscribe to my Substack) and then introduce the monetization plan later: A subscription app, an e-book, a partnership with some product. It’s possible this person organically decided to quit their job, sell their house, and focus on writing a no strings attached Substack blog series to share information. However, I’ve seen this play out across enough health influencers that I recommend everyone stay cautious about people who claim to hold some information that will change your life but they need you to subscribe first. Be careful.
glasscannon · 3h ago
> and making comments implying that they know better than doctors about chronic pain (while putting an obligatory “not a doctor” disclaimer juxtaposed to their comments complaining that doctors don’t know what they know).
I am not claiming to know better than doctors whom are proficient in pain science/medicine.
Rather, that most doctors are not adequately educated on this topic. If you ask the average doctor they will tell you how little it is taught in most medical education programs. Case in point, most pain sufferers will tell you how many doctors they had to bounce between before they finally got some answers/direction (if they were lucky).
FWIW I was preparing for two months this year after I left my job to sit the Australian med school entry exam. Ultimately, I decided I would be able to help more people today, with tools readily available (including a computer and substack) than spending the next decade of my life preparing for a medical career.
I would consider amending that part of my post to say something more narrow like "Not a pain doctor", but it seems more straightforward as it is now.
glasscannon · 4h ago
Thanks for sharing this.
Very much agree it's critical to get an accurate assessment, ideally from a doctor who understands pain science to rule out a structural cause. In saying this, I recognise many practitioners are not fully across this so I'm hoping this series will help increase awareness.
This first blog is meant as a quick intro to the series - blog post #2 will break down the different categories of chronic pain (i.e. broadly including tissue, nerve damage and pain due to brain plasticity - what the series is primarily focused on).
CoastalCoder · 4h ago
Would you mind sharing a little detail about what the physical malady turned out to be, and why it took so long to diagnose?
Sounds like an interesting medical mystery.
marcinzm · 4h ago
Not OP but similar story with someone I know. Five years of many specialists that always ended in "all the tests are negative so it must either be fibromyalgia or psychological." Doctors never helped but eventually they empirically found that abilify and rexulti in very low doses (ie: half the minimum) made it just go away. Empirically based on the reaction to various medications it was probably some type of dopamine imbalance or issue. There's other case studies of similar reactions to abilify and chronic pain but not many.
Extra fun fact, a deep research AI nowadays will actually suggest this as one of the treatments given a few paragraphs of information on the symptoms/medications tried/etc.
nwienert · 3h ago
Dopamine can help autoimmune issues - if they haven’t seen a rheumatologist I’d recommend it.
nwienert · 3h ago
Combination of two autoimmune conditions, one Ehlers Danlos.
Actually EDS is interesting because it became a fad I guess on TikTok to claim you had it like Tourette’s, further exacerbating the above issue.
It’s got a wide spectrum. My dad had it so lightly he was just considered “double jointed”. I gained a further thing from mom’s side, which seemed to interplay poorly. Spent 19-26 basically having extreme nausea and vomiting episodes every month or two, often having to go to the hospital to stop it. Had other weird symptoms and pains before that and during too.
Did every scan, met tons of specialists. Kept getting referred down the GI side, had gallbladder removed for no reason.
At one point I was convinced it was psychological. This was after a second doctor suggested it. It sent me down a dark path for a few years of trying to figure out what was wrong with me - didn’t help my mental state was terrible from all the uncertainty, and I had developed anxiety about eating since basically any meal could end up in hours of extreme pain. I was a total wreck. Then it just cleared up finally at 26.
It wasn’t until years later I got the EDS diagnosis, and then a genetic test showed the other immune condition. When looking at the two lists of symptoms it was such an intense moment in my life, finally having closure.
theshackleford · 2h ago
> At one point I was convinced it was psychological.
I ended up thinking the same thing after a prolonged period of symptoms that didnt make sense. I 100% began to think I was losing my mind and imaginging it. Turns out I had a spinal cord injury. The problem is, not knowing that for as long as I did ultimately did impact my mental health in other ways.
It was nice to find out ultimately that no, I was not just going insane.
nwienert · 1h ago
Cheers brother, not many people know that specific nightmare. Glad you’re over it.
fu-hn · 1h ago
What were your symptoms?
mkoubaa · 4h ago
Technically it is an experience that is internal to the nervous system... but a doctor telling someone that it's imagined because they can't identify the root cause is criminal!! If we have to make something up about it we're literally better off calling it a demon.
NoTranslationL · 4h ago
I make an app called Reflect [0] that’s designed to track things like chronic pain and help you get to the root cause with self guided experiments. I’ve used it for my own pain symptoms, especially joint pain. Happy to answer any questions. Wish you the best on your journey.
I've been using Bearable too. It's great and price is awesome, but data entry is so slow
glasscannon · 4h ago
Awesome study - thanks for the link!
doddpronter · 2h ago
It's crazy how much your physical health is tied to mental happiness/lack of stress. I had a friend that during his most stressful period as a 24 year old in Investment Banking had strep throat 4 times in 2 months.
Several doctor visits concluded that it was the long hours and insane amount of stress that was severely crushing his immune system.
Moral of the story is love what you do and take care of yourself: nothing is as important as your own health and happiness
godot · 1h ago
I think most people underestimate how much of their immune system depends on their sleep. Sleep quality, amount (hours) of sleep, time in bed, all of it -- they matter.
In stressful periods, it's likely not stress crushing the immune system, it's the indirect relationship that stress causes bad quality sleep and low amount of sleep, that in turn crushes the immune system.
If, even if under stress, you manage to work out a system/habit that allows you to get proper sleep, you'd likely be ok.
hiAndrewQuinn · 2h ago
Did your friend leave IB after this diagnosis, or did he tough it out?
To me that's the real question. I think either option is defensible, depending on what one values in life. I've known certain people who pulled 80 hour work weeks for years only to give away double-digit percentages of their salaries to charity, because that was what was important to them, and I don't think they were wrong for doing that, just making choices at a margin I would find intolerable far earlier.
littlexsparkee · 1h ago
I dealt with mobility issues the last 2.5 years after turf toe (healed after 1 year and then reinjured), didn't realize how crucial strengthening was after losing muscle resting, then after research found out how critical loading tendons is to having them repaired. I left my stable job a couple of months ago to dedicate myself to getting my life back. I'd let thumb RSI simmer for a long time too, even though I got to the point where I could do most things with Talon (friction made me get lazy occasionally). The hardest part is mental - the ups and downs, isolation, not knowing what to do to fix yourself, feeling like your body is betraying you and the lack of help from the medical system besides some basic scans and generic advice. I'm glad that I had a cushion so that I haven't had to stress too much taking time off.
To folks dealing with physical pain, I recommend:
Built From Broken by Scott Hogan, Rehab Science by Tom Walters.
For joint issues these may help: celadrin, pro-resolving mediators, red mineral algae w/ aquamin, natural eggshell membrane, collagen peptides w/ fortigel.
godot · 1h ago
I'd be curious to follow along and read more. My experience is that everyone's body is quite different and what causes chronic issues with everyone can be quite different. That's not to say his observations and solutions won't be useful to others, but it's another good anecdote to understand and things worth trying for others having similar issues.
I myself for example have had headache and migraine issues for more than 25 years. I understand deeply an incredible amount about what causes my migraines, how they feel, how I help with it, and so on. I understand migraines more than anyone else I ever know in my life because I observe, pay attention, study, and try different things so much. I understand it more than most doctors I talk to. But I also know that everyone's migraines are a little different and not everyone gets triggered by the same things (though there's a lot of overlaps) and my solutions may not help for everyone. I'd totally write something like this for migraines if I had the time (I don't :( ).
mgz18 · 37m ago
When I was 34, I was laying in bed one night and noticed that muscles all over my body were twitching. It didn't go away. A month later I went to a neurologist in my hometown in the midwest for a workup that culminated in a EMG-NCV study (the neurologist doing that study asked if I liked the NY Yankees.. "I do not.. and I've definitely never heard of Lou Gehrig.. so let's get on with it.."). Ultimately he congratulated me on having no signs of ALS or any other neurodegenerative disease and told me to "live your life." He hadn't seen the widespread persistent muscle twitching I was experiencing before. Six months later, I went to another neurologist, this time at Stanford. She did another workup and said the same things as the first guy, except she added, "yeah, we see this fairly often." The diagnosis was "Benign Fasciculation Syndrome" (BFS), aka "we don't know what caused everything to start twitching or how to stop it, but it won't progress and kill you."
What really struck me was that 1) the midwestern neurologist seemed to have never seen symptoms like mine, whereas the Stanford neurologist had seen them often, and 2) the Stanford neurologist linked it to poorly managed anxiety. At the time I was five years into a data scientist role at a big tech company in the bay area (now it's two year later - the symptoms improved somewhat but are still there). I definitely had burnout and mental health problems and was in denial about them ("I have all these great perks, how could my work be causing my mental health issues?").
The best thing you can say about BFS is it isn't physically painful; I am definitely not equating it with the chronic pain issues that others have described on this thread, which seem much tougher. It's another one of those things that has no known cure (diet / lifestyle / mental health improvements help somewhat), is only vaguely understood ("your nerves are oversensitive"), is linked to mental health issues, and seems overrepresented in the bay area (maybe in other tech/urban centers too, I don't know). Two years in, I don't have any answers, just wanted to share in case it's helpful to anyone.
Adrig · 3h ago
I've dealt with chronic illnesses for the past 10+ years now. It's such a hard path.
I recently found out after a violent burn-out that a significant cause was chronic stress and its psychosomatic symptoms. It made me have a hard look at the topic, and I'm gradually adjusting to solve the issue.
If I get better, I'm tempted to do as OP and spend more time working on this issue for others. It seems so much more impactful than grinding the tech / startup life.
accrual · 3h ago
> I recently found out after a violent burn-out that a significant cause was chronic stress and its psychosomatic symptoms.
Thanks for sharing. I am walking down this path as well. In my experience I can tell I'm deeply out of alignment and it wreaks havoc on the body. My soul says to X but my mind says do Y, it's safer, maintains a stable status quo, income, and relationships, etc., even though it's slowly killing me.
Adrig · 2h ago
It's definitely a difficult time to deal with these issues, especially when the world appears so unstable. But we eventually have to face the music one way or another. Best of luck!
glasscannon · 3h ago
Feel free to get in touch if you'd like to chat Adrig (my contact is in my profile), wishing you the best of luck.
ChrisMarshallNY · 3h ago
I was just talking to a friend of mine, yesterday, about what happened to me.
In 2017, I was laid off of my job (of almost 27 years). I immediately started looking for work. Since the company I worked for, was a marquee-name company, I assumed that it wouldn't be hard.
Boy, was I in for a shock.
I almost immediately learned that no one in tech, is interested in hiring a 55-year-old, regardless of their pedigree. I could have gotten a job, but those companies made it clear that I would be treated quite badly.
So I made the decision to just throw in the towel and retire. I had the means, but I would have liked to have at least another ten years of salary. I have never had any intentions of stopping working, though. I love developing software. It's a hobby and a personal passion; not just a job.
I was really pissed off at the treatment. I suffered great butthurt.
But in the long run, it's the best thing that ever happened to me. I never realized how much stress I was under, while working. I sincerely believe that, if I had kept working, it would have killed me. I have no intentions of returning to the rodent rally; even though I'm quite good at what I do, thanks to all the learning that I've done, in the last eight years.
I now work every day (my GH Activity Graph is quite green), and do a fairly good job on my chosen projects, but I no longer feel that awful weight on my soul.
Sometimes, the only way that we learn how much pain we are in, is to stop suffering it for a while.
tossandthrow · 3h ago
As someone who will, eventually, hit that age, I would love to hear more about that treatment?
My own impression is that the software industry is one of the industries where experience and qualifications are completely divorced.
So from my perspective one is really always back at square 0 when looking for jobs - including the need to prove oneself and stay humble.
ChrisMarshallNY · 3h ago
Well, I found that independent recruiters were the worst. They all ghosted me. A couple actually hung up on me, as soon as they learned my age. In-house recruiters and managers were much better, but the interview process generally derailed, as soon as one single tecchie got involved.
I actually had one refuse to look at my [extensive] code portfolio, because "I probably faked it." One of the luxuries that I had, which I am eternally grateful for, is that I don't have to eat shit.
If reacting badly to that kind of treatment is "not humble," then guilty as charged.
I should add that I am a high school dropout, with a GED, and no matriculated education. Despite that, I ran a "skunkworks" team, employing some very good engineers, and was kept on by a very demanding Japanese corporation, where I was given an insane level of trust.
I'm pretty used to having to prove myself. I've spent almost my entire career, looking up noses. Someone with my background won't make it far, unless I know how to work well with un-humble people, and deliver the goods. I never was given much latitude. I wasn't really allowed to fail.
quicktemp42 · 3h ago
I’ve been struggling with chronic pain for almost eight months. It started when my orthodontic treatment caused the root of one of my teeth to break—it had already been weakened from a previous injury. The extraction was straightforward and only took 10 minutes, and I had an implant placed (with a temporary crown attached to my braces). Healing went smoothly, and the CT scans looked fine.
But soon after, I developed constant headaches that never went away. At first, I assumed they were related to the procedure, but everything had healed well, and multiple check-ups didn’t reveal anything. Since then, my braces have been removed, but the daily headaches persist. Occasionally, I also feel a strange “foreign object” sensation around the implant site.
A follow-up CT scan of the implant showed perfect integration with the bone. I’ve also had other tests done, including a head MRI. Medically, everything appears normal.
It’s getting really hard to manage—painkillers don’t help at all. Has anyone experienced something similar or have any idea what to try next? I’m even considering having the implant removed, despite there being no medical reason for it.
accrual · 3h ago
Not a physician but how long have you had symptoms for? I've had dental work that took much longer than expected to heal.
The pulp in the teeth are quite sensitive and can inflame easily, and that inflamation has nowhere to go (being bound by the hard sides of your teeth and jaw), which can lead to constant pain. I once had a routine filling that took about 3 months to stop aching and I had to take ibuprofen every day during that time to be able to focus. Per the dentist, constant aching pain = it's slowly healing, leave it alone. Sharp intense pain = pulp is dying, need root canal. Granted, this is pain the mouth and not in the head like you described.
If it's been a while and it's still bothering you, I'd definitely consider having it removed too. It would suck to remove it and still have the headaches, but at that point you can start looking at other causes.
quicktemp42 · 3h ago
It has been eight months and there is no tissue damage. Allergic reactions to implant materials are rare and usually stop an implant from fusing with the bone, but mine has integrated perfectly. I would consider removing it, except it is my upper central incisor... I kept waiting for braces to be removed etc but I'm running out of options now.
accrual · 3h ago
Painful! Definitely seems long enough to fully heal, plus you've already done the imaging (CT, MRI) which would be a best next step. Maybe you could try another specialist, though it sounds like you've already done everything correctly and in sequence. I hope you can find relief.
quicktemp42 · 2h ago
Thanks, it's not as bad as for some ppl but made me really rethink what's important in life and I'm 42 lol. Random event you can't control can be life changing. I have 3 more things on the list to try:
- diagnostic temp nerve block around implant
- bite / occlusion specialist
- some blood work for those rare allergies (super unlikely but why not...)
Aurornis · 4h ago
> For the next 4 years, I continued to accumulate weird and persistent pains in different parts of my body.
Anyone who is accumulating weird pains in random, different locations should definitely pursue some of these alternative explanations. Another sign that these techniques are appropriate is if the pains come and go depending on your mood or situation (worse when working, disappear when doing something fun) or are prone to suggestion (someone talks about their back pain and then you have back pain for the following days or weeks).
However, I’m also getting tired of the people who benefit from this techniques deciding that their explanation for chronic pain covers everyone. It’s a huge trend in parts of tech Twitter right now to apply these theories to all chronic pain. A small number of people who had unexplainable pain and addressed it through meditation, therapy, and similar techniques are now pushing it as a far more universal explanation. It really needs to be applied to the appropriate situation, not used as a universal treatment for chronic pains.
This parallels similar trends with topics like PTSD, where a smaller group of people have benefited from therapy that addresses past trauma and now they’re trying to export the theory that past trauma and PTSD is the explanation for all psychological ills. Again, matching the right treatment to the condition is critical and being open-minded is important, but beware of people who are preaching that doctors are misinformed and you should subscribe to their app, blog, newsletter, or course instead.
glasscannon · 4h ago
On your first point, the moving of symptoms is not uncommon in patients with chronic pain - and yes definitely a sign something not normal is going on!
On the second, I've mentioned it elsewhere in this thread (on a different comment) that it's critical to determine if a structural cause is at play (i.e. tissue/nerve damage or something else causing inflammation). It is unfortunate however that many doctors are not familiar with modern pain science so I'm hoping spreading awareness via patients (and some practitioners) will change this.
In the next few blog posts this very thing will be discussed (i.e. exploring when it's likely something is mind related vs the body [though I will focus primarily on the former in this series] - as you're 100% correct sometimes it's the body and sometimes it's the mind, and sometimes it's both!).
nico · 3h ago
For people on the spectrum here, just want to add to the thread the term Fibromyalgia
It seems to be relatively common and under diagnosed. Also somehow controversial and not fully understood
However, looking into it might shed some light on some issues of chronic pain and potential ways to address it
twodave · 5h ago
Life is pain, highness. Anyone who says different is selling something.
mkoubaa · 4h ago
Buddhist?
MarkusWandel · 4h ago
Dread Pirate Roberts
twodave · 31m ago
Yes, and honestly probably the deepest line in the film (though plenty others are often quoted in my family).
I think there is a lot of strength that comes from waking up and doing the “hard” thing, whatever that is. I’ve had injuries, unexplained health issues, mental health issues, high stress, etc. I have found that for me, at least, refusal to let these things break me and meeting them head-on has been a positive overall for my quality of life.
To abstract it away some, I grew up hearing a lot of family members say things like, “I can’t do X anymore because of Y.” I just refuse to allow any of those damn Ys to kill off my beloved Xs, as far as I am able, despite whatever temporary pain or difficulty it may require me to go through. Sometimes telling the Ys to shut the hell up makes them go away completely. And when it doesn’t, sometimes I just have to be okay “embracing the suck” in order to prevent the Ys from bossing me around.
RickJWagner · 3h ago
Prince Humperdinck: First things first, to the death.
Westley: No. To the pain.
xyst · 1h ago
Very odd pipeline from rank and file tech employee to wellness and alternative medicine "influencer".
Ticks all the boxes:
- not a doctor
- not a physical therapist
- offering tips to solve your pain that somehow nobody could
- emphasizing a single "landmark" study with no other context
- results based off of personal experience
Guy is trying to become the RFK Jr of Aussie land.
tdn291 · 5h ago
Great article, will watch your developments with great interest!
Thank you for sharing your story, and congrats on your endeavour.
ck2 · 2h ago
Low‐Dose Naltrexone aka LDN
not a cure and barely a treatment but it's one of the only tools in the toolbox
Modulates endorphin receptors (by blocking them for a little while)
Not only causes the body to produce more endorphins to reduce pain but is actually proven in studies to make the ion channels work better if dysfunctional
The mind/body part for dealing with chronic pain is vital to embrace, but isn't always enough. Finding ways to "attack" pain would be a relief to millions.
The best I've been able to find is kratom, but that's not without its concerns -- drug laws are no friend to pain patients (let alone society as a whole).
Pro tip: get a shingles vaccine if you are able to -- postherpetic neuralgia is no fun.
paulcole · 3h ago
This should be a show HN.
varispeed · 2h ago
Why this has so many upvotes? This is very much a wall of text with just waffle and very little substance.
The "mind-body" thing is a great tool for doctors who are into abuse and take pleasure in having power over their patients.
"You are still having chronic pain, because you are not working hard enough!"
"No, I will not prescribe you medication. The pain is in your head!"
Oh and abusive partners also love this crap. You have a flare up? No you don't! You are just a lazy slob who doent't want to work and is whinging like a little baby. Stop imagining your pain!
GTFO with this crap.
xyst · 1h ago
It has many upvotes because HN loves to think of itself as "against the establishment." The alternative medicine folks tend to think this.
In reality , nothing more than grifters. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a book or "masterclass" pitch at the end of this series.
ekianjo · 4h ago
> Before moving forward - I’m not a doctor. Just a bit of a nerd with a blog. Please do not sue me or use these posts as a replacement for medical care.
unnecessary disclaimer here. when it comes to chronic pain treatment doctors are mostly useless or even harmful, proposing surgeries or drugs that will do more bad than anything else because they have no interest in learning how to customize their approach and will parrot and prescribe what they heard from medical representatives. Remember, the opoids crisis was enabled by doctors in the first place.
qualeed · 4h ago
It's not unnecessary to tell people you aren't a doctor when people may reasonably believe you are a doctor in the absence of such a disclaimer.
ekianjo · 1h ago
I was not focusing on the 'not. a doctor' part, rather the 'seek medical care' as being bad advice when dealing with chronic pain
glasscannon · 4h ago
Heavily agree much destruction has come from overprescription. With this note I'm just seeking to cover my bases and be transparent with readers who don't know me.
xyst · 1h ago
It was enabled by doctors but they were deceived by Purdue Pharma and Sackler family. They also deceived the (understaffed) FDA, paid off researchers to get their exact wording approved. Purdue used their wealth and influence to launch a nationwide campaign and lobbyist group advocating that mistreatment/mismanagement of patient pain will lead to litigation.
Those stupid pain face charts you see at hospitals, physician offices. Purdue marketing, nothing else.
Everybody is shitty here. This is what happens when a market has loose regulations.
srshihab · 2h ago
Hi
srshihab · 2h ago
No idea
incomingpain · 4h ago
>Pain Reprocessing Therapy
I asked chatgpt to explain this to me and it did a poor job.
Generally speaking in my friend group. Chronic pain used to be opiods; though long ago medical cannabis came along. I couldnt tell you how many people i know who arent stoners who got into the cbd thing and fully got off opiods. 1 addiction for another, but at least cannabis has far less negatives.
>If you don’t have chronic pain and you’re just here for vibes and to see some cute brains, I really appreciate you .
The problem, CBD never fixes the pain. ~8 hours later you need more.
There's no business case for solving chronic pain. Here's my take.
1. There can be cases where there's something legitimately physically wrong causing chronic pain. In detroit I had a friend who got shot with birdshot, a tiny pellet was in his spine that surgeons didnt want to go after but there's no getting away from that pain. If this is the case, you're not seeking explanation.
2. There's stress/emotional pain. "The body keeps the score" by Bessel van der Kolk. He's big on EMDR and yoga. Your achilles pain and such absolutely could be, Probably something like 'change or abandonment' one of my favourites for yoga: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XhJ63OQ7Ww
Do that 23 minute video and see if it helps.
3. Mindfulness meditation. Get into the most comfortable position possible. Dont move; and far more difficult dont think. Your mind will wander. If the pain is in your achilles. The only thing you're doing is monitoring the pain. What's the exact shape of the pain? Is it 4 inches long or is it only 2 inches? Is it sharp like a knife, or is it round in shape? Do you have any taste, smell, or sound from it? You need to wait as long as you have to, maybe it only makes a sound every 2 minutes, you have to wait and your focus is only on waiting for the sound and nothing else.
4. Yoga nidra or progressive muscle relaxation. Start at your toes, you try to flex the muscles to the maximum and hold for 5 seconds, release. then do your feet, ankles, legs, every muscle has to have been flexed and held for 5 seconds. Then when you're done, you simply do nothing at all. dont even focus on anything; maybe your breath at most.
glasscannon · 4h ago
> The problem, CBD never fixes the pain. ~8 hours later you need more.
100%, medication plays a great role in providing comfort and support but it can be ineffective (and often harmful) if relied on solely for recovery from (neuroplastic) chronic pain.
> There's no business case for solving chronic pain
It seems some parties may be incentive aligned (e.g. insurers in Australia) - though I'm still navigating this space to find an approach which makes solving the root cause viable. Keen for your thoughts.
> 1.
Sorry to hear about your friend. This is often referred to as a structural diagnosis - i.e. where a knowledgable/proficient doctor has diagnosed there is legitimate tissue (nociceptive) or nerve (neuropathic) damage.
> 2.
Yep! This is what the series will be targeting, data points to a substantial percentage of chronic pain sufferers solely (or partially in comorbidities) being impacted by psychological disorder (otherwise known as neuroplastic pain / TMS / and a few other names!). There are a lot of causes and factors which have been shown in research to date, but largely it's adverse childhood experience, stress, personality traits, and more.
Will check out that vid!
> 3.
Related to this, there is an exercise called somatic tracking which has helped many people (including myself) - during it people often notice pain shifting throughout your body. This was a big turning point for me seeing how my mind behaves in real time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw1D_UvzIDA
incomingpain · 3h ago
>It seems some parties may be incentive aligned (e.g. insurers in Australia) - though I'm still navigating this space to find an approach which makes solving the root cause viable. Keen for your thoughts.
Ive been sort of part of this sort of approach before. I was sysadmin, not a suit. These do tend to work out.
This is also the mechanism for how they squash and hide stuff that would cut into tylenol sales. Dont sell it, license it for periods of time is my recommendation.
Or you seem to agree much with my post. Put it together. The chronic pain fixer upper place that takes in patients and explains these things and trains them. You hire the emdr and yoga folks.
>Will check out that vid! Big fan of the body keeps the score.
It helped me for sure. I really need to try EMDR but never have. Id bet it works great. Adrienne is one of my favourites, but the science actual says slow yoga is more effective; whereas she needs to go quicker for video length.
>Related to this, there is an exercise called somatic tracking which has helped many people (including myself) - during it people often notice pain shifting throughout your body. This was a big turning point for me seeing how my mind behaves in real time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw1D_UvzIDA
3000 year old religious ritual :)
Its very interesting to me how science when i was young called this all hoo-haa pseudoscience but is now giving it a new name and saying it works.
You know what's interesting, my post is pretty heavily downvoted. I wonder what people disagreed with.
theshackleford · 2h ago
I find CBD about as useful as a sugar pill for pain treatment.
THC amongst its most minimal side effects increases my pain, not decreases it.
I would suggest everyone try everything that is open to them, but cannabis is not a miracle cure for every ailment.
cracoucax · 1h ago
I've always found strange all the talk about using cannabis to manage pain.
I've smoked alot of weed, well before all those talks promoting THC for this.
It was my experience, and common knowledge in my circles at the time that THC made pain way, way worse, at least in resin form.
Probably simply because you'll tend to isolate things and focus on them very strongly when under the influence, it makes you notice pain more. I remember toking some days after a knee surgery and regretting badly having done it. So much pain I hadn't noticed...
varispeed · 1h ago
Are you talking about THC isolate? I found high THC full spectrum oils to be life changing. They don't "cure" pain, but fade it into the background noise. You can still feel it if you focus on it, but pain no longer consumes your attention. I found this to be the most debilitating problem, not being able to do anything because pain just constantly grabs your thoughts and imprisons you. Medical cannabis removes that aspect almost completely.
Now, I found oil to be individual thing - I had to go through a half dozen of them before I found one that is actually working for me. It was discouraging at first, but I still had hope and once I found the one... I got my life back!
I've been taking it for many years now. I don't have any side effects. I don't feel "high" etc.
I had no idea it was the misery of the IT job that was causing most of my pain and suffering, and it had nothing to do with the job itself, it was the endless insanity of everyone else around me doing exactly what they were informed would cause problems instead of having discussions with people that actually knew how shit worked. I was endlessly picking up everyone elses mess and treated worse than a pile of shit all because people were incapable of having a speck of respect for other people since all their hatred for computers fell on me
I GTFO of the career of misery and took half a decade to finally start feeling better
I have now spent years and countless hours working on software and I greatly enjoy doing this work again and find I get even more done than I used to simply by doing life the way I need to instead of how some backwards/abusive control freak "needs it done"
That being said, how sure are you it wasn't a you problem, since the rest of the company seemed to be fine with the way they operated?
if it was a me problem then they would not have let the then president of the company go for working with me
I was not the one with communication problems but people are really good at blaming me for their own problems
I was working for a consulting company:
The first project I worked on was great, some of the most enjoyable work I've done at a company.
Then the second project came (same company, same client). Things weren't going so well, so I started talking about the problems that everyone was having, and started talking about how we could fix the problems...
... and that's when the real problem revealed itself. The project manager on the client-side was secretly trying to replace my consulting company with another consulting company (where he had friends). However, my consulting company had ties with higher management at the client company, and my consulting company didn't want to abandon the work, because they wanted the money, of course.
In the end, it was revealed that our team of programmers was surrounded on all sides by people that didn't care about solving the same problem, they only cared about the political games.
It was extremely stressful. I got shingles, and was diagnosed with celiac disease in the same week. It's hard to say for sure, but I think the celiac disease was activated by the stress--I still have it to this day obviously.
My advice to others:
(1) Identify the problem (2) Communicate with the people that are needed to fix the problem (3) Work towards fixing the problem
If at any point communication breaks down, or you realize management is not trying to solve the same problems you are trying to solve, then you need to GTFO.
I am on the same fence, just on my notice period in the shit show called corporate IT where there is 90% time spent on toxic politics.
Now dreaming to burn some savings, detox and then play with Raspberry Pi projects.
I hesitate to add a link to this on the thread, but there is an interesting story around chronic pain actually being psychological and there are now some high quality studies coming out.
https://journals.lww.com/painrpts/Fulltext/2021/09000/Psycho...
I especially hate to link to LessWrong but this is an actually decent thread on the topic:
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/BgBJqPv5ogsX4fLka/the-mind-b...
I didn't know about any of this and had never been exposed to any of it when I drew my conclusions and started to feel less pain. Don't get me wrong, there are still things that will set my back off, but now I probably go actual years without even thinking about it.
I’ve been on the slippery slope of chronic pain. Minor post surgery issues caused me to change my routine and avoid certain activities which only exacerbated the issues, which led to more avoidance. Eventually I couldn’t walk.
The American medical system is very focused on avoiding health issues that show up on mri, rather than quality of life health. But quality of life issues quickly become serious.
I think the middle ground of activity: not all out intense as if you are healthy, but also not avoiding movement is so challenging to find for many people but also so crucial. A lot of chronic pain for myself and I suspect for many others could be avoided with short and quick combination of therapy and daily movement. So simple but so challenging to effectively identify and allocate resources.
Not suggesting this is the total solution but it’s the pathway that I took to return to activity and I’ve seen it help a number of my friends as well.
[1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8482298/
Anecdotally, I had a phase where pretty much the same thing happened to me with the Achilles (+ calf/ankle) flare-ups I was having (during this part of my chronic journey). Eventually got through it by doing small walks around my home, then outside but keeping the frequency high each day (i.e. instead of 1 "long" walk, doing 3-4 short ones). I.e. Desensitisation / daily movement
My wife has had two surgeries and each time she had a minor post surgery issue. One of them was an area that was tender to touch; another was chronic pain. Neither was mentioned as a possible side effect of the surgery by the surgeon. The main takeaway even if a bit extreme here is avoid all surgeries unless absolutely necessary.
Anecdotal case: My wife broke her arm some 10 years ago or so. She was really upset about potential recovery time, insurance copayments and such, especially since she was (at the time) a single mother. The doctor suggested setting it and letting it heal on its own, which was absolutely the wrong call. Had she gotten surgery straight away, she would have recovered by the time she actually ended up getting surgery.
I've often wondered if there wasn't a malpractice case that could have been made, but it was before we met so that's lost to time.
I had a surgery asked for more pain meds once on day 5 or 6. Instead the surgeon had me come in to look at the wound, made a tiny incision a blob of pus came out and things felt fine the next day. That’s the kind of thing that could have easily resulted in major problems, but just the right treatment at just the right time fixed it.
I'm surprised this is not the standard for any surgery involving a significant incision. In my country it's been the standard for instance for all three of my cervical spine surgeries, including the one I just had.
At the 7-10 day mark I must go to my normal GP who performs wound review and checks for signs of infection or other anomaly.
I deal with fibromyalgia pain. When I first developed it, I pretty much avoided doing anything, and really that was the opposite of what I should have done. There's no "recovery" and really no avoiding it; all I ended up doing was letting my physical condition weaken to the point that even normal activities were painful, so I was hurting for two reasons.
Treating the underlying cause of the symptom, and training to avoid behaviors that exacerbate the symptom is the real key.
This is the first of several blog posts exploring this invisible condition.
If you're passionate about this space feel free to reach out, thanks!
[1] https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/mm7215a1.htm [data from 2021]
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[Edit] Thanks so much everyone! Excited to get the next article out soon!
[0] Circadian rhythms and pain: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01497...
[1] The disruptive relationship among circadian rhythms, pain, and opioids: https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/neuroscience/articles/1...
[2] Circadian rhythm disruption exacerbates pain behavior in male mice: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03064...
Sometimes I wish there was a medHN
I'll read this blog with love!
Thanks
The question of why is out of scope.
In this case, docs just don’t know why. (I think it kinda pisses them off not know, tbh). And finding out is not really in their wheelhouse.
I’ve made some life changes (new job) to see what happens here. But I also have to be prepared for the possibility that it doesn’t fix it. Been working through The Body Keeps The Score as well.
Looking forward to seeing what the author discusses here.
-https://www.healthcentral.com/digestive-health/acid-reflux-e...
-https://www.refluxguard.com/the-acid-reflux-game-changer-sle...
This exercise fixed it for me. I was diagnosed with GERD last year, I already had it for 2-3 years before that, but it got worse last year. I got ppis for a couple of months and when I finished all of them it came back worse. Fortunately I found this article, and I started doing the exercise daily morning after I woke up(and still do it). I can now eat tomatoes, food with mint, spicy food etc etc :) I have shared my experience with others and it helped them too
Edit - Changed the link, had posted something else by mistake
Since reading the above HN comments, I have lost ten pounds and (mostly) stopped drinking carbonated beverages. My GERD is vastly reduced.
¢¢
Chronic reflux as a symptom is almost always initially treated by PPIs because the cause among white collar workers is assumed to be chronic stress[1]. Since doctors can't "treat stress" only its symptoms, they will just tell you to try and manage stressors in your life yourself. Maybe suggest counseling but in general they are limited in what they can do. What they can do, if you are persistent in the complaint, is to just run through all the other less likely causes of it.
I was lucky omeprazole worked for me the first time. I knew exactly what was stressing me out 24/7 and the acid reflux and frequent belching combined with the "pit in my stomach" feeling was all too common and connected around my main stressor. In my case, it started 8 months after accepting a role shift from engineering into management. I was cautiously excited initially, but it just soured very quickly. I would feel physical angst parking at work every morning trying to remind myself of all the web of political infighting "what our team is hiding from this other team", "who we can discuss what with", "how that other team is actively undermining us and their other downstream partners, but how we are circumventing that" how to 4d chess maneuver yourself in the most counterproductive ways possible. It was illuminating on where a lot of those special "business requirements" come from sometimes, but it just wasn't for me. Cutting that out was a massive relief
[1]: Stress and glucocorticoids have well documented effects on the digestive system. I recommend the "Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers" book chapter on stress and the digestive system.
Thanks for the edit that added this. Very similar experience as this.
It's BS that IC ladders top out at quasi-management roles, but perhaps part of the issue is believing that professional growth is as tidy as a FAANG career ladder (since most companies just copy them wholesale), and that not reaching those rungs reflects on me in any way.
It feels a bit taboo to say, but I believe not everyone can flex into management easily, even part-time. I'm alright at it, but it clearly isn't long-term sustainable.
First of all, there ARE more steps on top of the IC ladder. They are really really exclusive though in our industry. A large company needs thousands of managers, but only a dozen or so those positions. Half those people are really smooth talkers, and the other half are truly remarkable human beings. You can set it as a challenge to yourself to shadow and follow in that direction. It might take you another 10 or 20 years and it might never happen.
The reason I don't view it as BS is because there is a limit on the amount of value a single person can generate. At the end of the day "managers" are viewed as force multipliers. Their job is to direct and control the output of 10 people. A great manager can 2x or 3x the productivity of their team compared to just 10 aimless people with no accountability or structure. Paying that person 2x or 4x is justified. Your entire career in management, from M1 -> CEO is all about trying to convince the one above you that you are a bigger force multiplier than others in your position. That's basically your job.
As an IC, you need to be someone who has had a track record of founding and delivering multiple highly profitable products/business/features/etc. Otherwise, you did, in fact, hit a ceiling of sorts.
From FAANG prospective, for an IC there is a sweet spot between their technical seniority, output vs burnout, and their compensation expectations/asks.
This is false. Therapy is designed to do just this and it’s readily available in different modalities that have been trialed and studied. You can book an appointment with a therapist today and start working on techniques to build stress resilience and stress handling techniques
> but Eastern medicine definitely claims to be able to. But then so do various nebulous “alternative medicines”.
Much of the allure of so-called Eastern medicines is the feeling that it’s ancient, semi-secret knowledge that is mysteriously superior to modern medicine. There are a lot of herbal medicines that kind of do something, but the effects are small and often prone to rapid tolerance build up and side effects. A large part of the efficacy is getting the patient to believe that the medicine and/or practices are a cure for their ills. Feeling like you’re tapping in to a mysterious ancient solution to stress will encourage a very strong placebo effect, which can actually reduce the stress.
Similarly, when we do randomized trials of medicines for depressive disorder it’s incredible how much the placebo group improves. When people have been told they’re receiving a treatment, it usually helps to some extent even if the treatment does nothing at all!
I can't say how much is placebo, but there isn't really anything mysterious about it.
It’s actually very interesting that many of the herbal compounds they use do have some quantifiable biological activities. So it’s not all placebo, but you’ll also discover that many of the herbs being sold don’t contain the ingredients they claim, don’t contain enough active ingredients to do anything, or might even be contaminated.
I once asked some doctor friends what things they’ll never do after seeing the consequences in their patients. One of the most surprising answers, to me, was that they avoided TCM and Avurvedic medicines. Apparently they see a lot of people come in with elevated liver enzymes or signs of kidney problems and discover that some TCM or Ayurvedic herbal remedy is causing the damage. Discontinuing the supplement can stop the damage. This happens with megadoses of other supplements too, especially some of the things peddled to gym bros. However, TCM and Ayurvedic supplements seem to catch people by surprise because they assume it’s safer.
Oh definitely. Some doctors are physically incapable of uttering the words “I/We don’t know.” I know a few doctors, and have asked a couple of them about this. In private, they’re very frank about the limits of modern medicine. But in front of patients, they’re afraid any sign of uncertainty will lead to patients concluding that some other quackery is just as good as actual medicine. I can definitely understand their perspective, but it does sometimes make them come across as arrogant know-it-alls.
This, but also in particularly litigious countries like the USA, they have to be extremely careful of opening up lawsuits.
A doctor saying "I don't know." followed by a bad patient outcome has a pretty high chance of being a lawsuit.
The diagnosis I got from my therapist is PTSD from my chikdhood due to the strong connection between stress and body.
The only thing I found that alleviates my symptoms short term is lots of Buddhist meditation (1-2 hours per day).
I wish you all the best and thank you so much for sharing.
Foods make it worse, but it’s rarely an issue if I’m in decent shape and not stressed.
He almost certainly suffered minor brain damage during this episode, and later, after about a decade of taking anti-protonic medications for reflux, developed exactly the abnormally rapidly growing abdominal cancer that patients who take anti-protonics apparently develop at a higher rate than similar GERD patients who don't.
I don't mean to give medical advice. I can only describe what happened in my family (which has a heritable deformation in the esophagus, leading to severe GERD). Take it with a grain of salt (and an antacid) as what it is: an anecdote from some anonymous nonexpert on the internet.
Anyhow, good luck. I'm glad to know you're working actively on the problem, not ignoring it as my father did, and I hope you find some long-term relief and peace.
Worth mentioning is I got the same symptoms (tendinitis) a few months prior to this, but went to PT and got them resolved. Bodies/minds are fun!
But I think there's still plenty more that makes it worth a read. For example, something along the lines of, sometimes a man will pop an antacid and lament that their illness is negatively affecting their work, when in fact the causality is exactly reversed
And as you have said, avoid anything that increases stomach acid production (such as caffeine or even tea, along with spicy food).
You might also have success with Venter[1] (Sucralfate).
[1] https://www.medicinesfaq.com/brand/venter
I suspect I have a histamine intolerance behind it all, as it tends to be comorbid with ehlers-danlos.
I love smoothies with aloe Vera juice and freshly grated ginger. I’ve never felt such a powerfully calming sensation from ingesting something before. Can’t tell if it’s the ritual/association or the ingredients.
> The most consequential problem with BKS is its promotion of a large number of treatments, outside of EMDR, that have limited to no evidence (e.g., massage, acupuncture, yoga, community theater, and neurofeedback), according to the latest treatment guidelines by the International Society for Traumatic Stress Studies (Frank et al., 2020), while simultaneously ignoring or criticizing PE and CPT, the two treatments with the highest quality evidence (Sakaluk et al., 2019).
https://web.archive.org/web/20250120164320/https://journals....
I have had chronic pain and other annoying functional neurological symptoms for the past 4 years. It started about halfway throughout my PhD.
I was born with congenital torticollis (fibrosis of the right sternocleidomastoid muscle) and had surgery for this twice when I was young. I also had 3 other surgical procedures for different reasons as a child.
Because my pain started in my neck and shoulder, I was set on believing that my previous surgeries were the cause of my pain. But as I learned more, meditated more, did yoga more, and faced pushback (and lots of confusion) from health professionals, it became clear that my symptoms are mainly "mind-body" (I hate that dualistic term).
I'd be very interested in talking more.
Don’t let yourself be gaslit that it’s all mental. It seems some do have that, but there are also many hard to diagnose and completely valid physical health conditions that cause terrible chronic pain. And don’t give up on trying to find out what they are. Once I did, I was able to largely manage mine, and more importantly, to stop constantly questioning my own sanity.
I agree, though this is a very difficult subject. Often, the people who would benefit the most from psychosomatic interventions are often the most resistant to accepting those explanations. Meanwhile, many of the physical chronic pain sufferers I know have desperately tried various mind-body programs (without success) because they will try anything that might help.
If people match the description of the author of this post and blog, where the pains are widespread, vague, and popping up around different parts of the body without explanation then you really should explore psychosomatic explanations like this author did.
However, I’m growing weary of the trend of people who fit this description starting newsletters they want you to subscribe to (like this one), writing apps they want you to download/buy, and making comments implying that they know better than doctors about chronic pain (while putting an obligatory “not a doctor” disclaimer juxtaposed to their comments complaining that doctors don’t know what they know). I think it’s great when people share their experience, but it’s getting tiresome to see it productized and generalized as a more universal explanation.
EDIT: Another trend in this space is to productize by building an audience (please subscribe to my Substack) and then introduce the monetization plan later: A subscription app, an e-book, a partnership with some product. It’s possible this person organically decided to quit their job, sell their house, and focus on writing a no strings attached Substack blog series to share information. However, I’ve seen this play out across enough health influencers that I recommend everyone stay cautious about people who claim to hold some information that will change your life but they need you to subscribe first. Be careful.
I am not claiming to know better than doctors whom are proficient in pain science/medicine.
Rather, that most doctors are not adequately educated on this topic. If you ask the average doctor they will tell you how little it is taught in most medical education programs. Case in point, most pain sufferers will tell you how many doctors they had to bounce between before they finally got some answers/direction (if they were lucky).
FWIW I was preparing for two months this year after I left my job to sit the Australian med school entry exam. Ultimately, I decided I would be able to help more people today, with tools readily available (including a computer and substack) than spending the next decade of my life preparing for a medical career.
I would consider amending that part of my post to say something more narrow like "Not a pain doctor", but it seems more straightforward as it is now.
Very much agree it's critical to get an accurate assessment, ideally from a doctor who understands pain science to rule out a structural cause. In saying this, I recognise many practitioners are not fully across this so I'm hoping this series will help increase awareness.
This first blog is meant as a quick intro to the series - blog post #2 will break down the different categories of chronic pain (i.e. broadly including tissue, nerve damage and pain due to brain plasticity - what the series is primarily focused on).
Sounds like an interesting medical mystery.
Extra fun fact, a deep research AI nowadays will actually suggest this as one of the treatments given a few paragraphs of information on the symptoms/medications tried/etc.
Actually EDS is interesting because it became a fad I guess on TikTok to claim you had it like Tourette’s, further exacerbating the above issue.
It’s got a wide spectrum. My dad had it so lightly he was just considered “double jointed”. I gained a further thing from mom’s side, which seemed to interplay poorly. Spent 19-26 basically having extreme nausea and vomiting episodes every month or two, often having to go to the hospital to stop it. Had other weird symptoms and pains before that and during too.
Did every scan, met tons of specialists. Kept getting referred down the GI side, had gallbladder removed for no reason.
At one point I was convinced it was psychological. This was after a second doctor suggested it. It sent me down a dark path for a few years of trying to figure out what was wrong with me - didn’t help my mental state was terrible from all the uncertainty, and I had developed anxiety about eating since basically any meal could end up in hours of extreme pain. I was a total wreck. Then it just cleared up finally at 26.
It wasn’t until years later I got the EDS diagnosis, and then a genetic test showed the other immune condition. When looking at the two lists of symptoms it was such an intense moment in my life, finally having closure.
I ended up thinking the same thing after a prolonged period of symptoms that didnt make sense. I 100% began to think I was losing my mind and imaginging it. Turns out I had a spinal cord injury. The problem is, not knowing that for as long as I did ultimately did impact my mental health in other ways.
It was nice to find out ultimately that no, I was not just going insane.
[0] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/reflect-track-anything/id64638...
Thanks!
https://bearable.app/
Here’s an actual peer reviewed study evaluating a pile (over 1000!) symptom tracking apps, including Bearable.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S245210942...
Several doctor visits concluded that it was the long hours and insane amount of stress that was severely crushing his immune system.
Moral of the story is love what you do and take care of yourself: nothing is as important as your own health and happiness
In stressful periods, it's likely not stress crushing the immune system, it's the indirect relationship that stress causes bad quality sleep and low amount of sleep, that in turn crushes the immune system.
If, even if under stress, you manage to work out a system/habit that allows you to get proper sleep, you'd likely be ok.
To me that's the real question. I think either option is defensible, depending on what one values in life. I've known certain people who pulled 80 hour work weeks for years only to give away double-digit percentages of their salaries to charity, because that was what was important to them, and I don't think they were wrong for doing that, just making choices at a margin I would find intolerable far earlier.
To folks dealing with physical pain, I recommend: Built From Broken by Scott Hogan, Rehab Science by Tom Walters.
For joint issues these may help: celadrin, pro-resolving mediators, red mineral algae w/ aquamin, natural eggshell membrane, collagen peptides w/ fortigel.
I myself for example have had headache and migraine issues for more than 25 years. I understand deeply an incredible amount about what causes my migraines, how they feel, how I help with it, and so on. I understand migraines more than anyone else I ever know in my life because I observe, pay attention, study, and try different things so much. I understand it more than most doctors I talk to. But I also know that everyone's migraines are a little different and not everyone gets triggered by the same things (though there's a lot of overlaps) and my solutions may not help for everyone. I'd totally write something like this for migraines if I had the time (I don't :( ).
What really struck me was that 1) the midwestern neurologist seemed to have never seen symptoms like mine, whereas the Stanford neurologist had seen them often, and 2) the Stanford neurologist linked it to poorly managed anxiety. At the time I was five years into a data scientist role at a big tech company in the bay area (now it's two year later - the symptoms improved somewhat but are still there). I definitely had burnout and mental health problems and was in denial about them ("I have all these great perks, how could my work be causing my mental health issues?").
The best thing you can say about BFS is it isn't physically painful; I am definitely not equating it with the chronic pain issues that others have described on this thread, which seem much tougher. It's another one of those things that has no known cure (diet / lifestyle / mental health improvements help somewhat), is only vaguely understood ("your nerves are oversensitive"), is linked to mental health issues, and seems overrepresented in the bay area (maybe in other tech/urban centers too, I don't know). Two years in, I don't have any answers, just wanted to share in case it's helpful to anyone.
I recently found out after a violent burn-out that a significant cause was chronic stress and its psychosomatic symptoms. It made me have a hard look at the topic, and I'm gradually adjusting to solve the issue.
If I get better, I'm tempted to do as OP and spend more time working on this issue for others. It seems so much more impactful than grinding the tech / startup life.
Thanks for sharing. I am walking down this path as well. In my experience I can tell I'm deeply out of alignment and it wreaks havoc on the body. My soul says to X but my mind says do Y, it's safer, maintains a stable status quo, income, and relationships, etc., even though it's slowly killing me.
In 2017, I was laid off of my job (of almost 27 years). I immediately started looking for work. Since the company I worked for, was a marquee-name company, I assumed that it wouldn't be hard.
Boy, was I in for a shock.
I almost immediately learned that no one in tech, is interested in hiring a 55-year-old, regardless of their pedigree. I could have gotten a job, but those companies made it clear that I would be treated quite badly.
So I made the decision to just throw in the towel and retire. I had the means, but I would have liked to have at least another ten years of salary. I have never had any intentions of stopping working, though. I love developing software. It's a hobby and a personal passion; not just a job.
I was really pissed off at the treatment. I suffered great butthurt.
But in the long run, it's the best thing that ever happened to me. I never realized how much stress I was under, while working. I sincerely believe that, if I had kept working, it would have killed me. I have no intentions of returning to the rodent rally; even though I'm quite good at what I do, thanks to all the learning that I've done, in the last eight years.
I now work every day (my GH Activity Graph is quite green), and do a fairly good job on my chosen projects, but I no longer feel that awful weight on my soul.
Sometimes, the only way that we learn how much pain we are in, is to stop suffering it for a while.
My own impression is that the software industry is one of the industries where experience and qualifications are completely divorced.
So from my perspective one is really always back at square 0 when looking for jobs - including the need to prove oneself and stay humble.
I actually had one refuse to look at my [extensive] code portfolio, because "I probably faked it." One of the luxuries that I had, which I am eternally grateful for, is that I don't have to eat shit.
If reacting badly to that kind of treatment is "not humble," then guilty as charged.
I should add that I am a high school dropout, with a GED, and no matriculated education. Despite that, I ran a "skunkworks" team, employing some very good engineers, and was kept on by a very demanding Japanese corporation, where I was given an insane level of trust.
I'm pretty used to having to prove myself. I've spent almost my entire career, looking up noses. Someone with my background won't make it far, unless I know how to work well with un-humble people, and deliver the goods. I never was given much latitude. I wasn't really allowed to fail.
But soon after, I developed constant headaches that never went away. At first, I assumed they were related to the procedure, but everything had healed well, and multiple check-ups didn’t reveal anything. Since then, my braces have been removed, but the daily headaches persist. Occasionally, I also feel a strange “foreign object” sensation around the implant site.
A follow-up CT scan of the implant showed perfect integration with the bone. I’ve also had other tests done, including a head MRI. Medically, everything appears normal.
It’s getting really hard to manage—painkillers don’t help at all. Has anyone experienced something similar or have any idea what to try next? I’m even considering having the implant removed, despite there being no medical reason for it.
The pulp in the teeth are quite sensitive and can inflame easily, and that inflamation has nowhere to go (being bound by the hard sides of your teeth and jaw), which can lead to constant pain. I once had a routine filling that took about 3 months to stop aching and I had to take ibuprofen every day during that time to be able to focus. Per the dentist, constant aching pain = it's slowly healing, leave it alone. Sharp intense pain = pulp is dying, need root canal. Granted, this is pain the mouth and not in the head like you described.
If it's been a while and it's still bothering you, I'd definitely consider having it removed too. It would suck to remove it and still have the headaches, but at that point you can start looking at other causes.
Anyone who is accumulating weird pains in random, different locations should definitely pursue some of these alternative explanations. Another sign that these techniques are appropriate is if the pains come and go depending on your mood or situation (worse when working, disappear when doing something fun) or are prone to suggestion (someone talks about their back pain and then you have back pain for the following days or weeks).
However, I’m also getting tired of the people who benefit from this techniques deciding that their explanation for chronic pain covers everyone. It’s a huge trend in parts of tech Twitter right now to apply these theories to all chronic pain. A small number of people who had unexplainable pain and addressed it through meditation, therapy, and similar techniques are now pushing it as a far more universal explanation. It really needs to be applied to the appropriate situation, not used as a universal treatment for chronic pains.
This parallels similar trends with topics like PTSD, where a smaller group of people have benefited from therapy that addresses past trauma and now they’re trying to export the theory that past trauma and PTSD is the explanation for all psychological ills. Again, matching the right treatment to the condition is critical and being open-minded is important, but beware of people who are preaching that doctors are misinformed and you should subscribe to their app, blog, newsletter, or course instead.
On the second, I've mentioned it elsewhere in this thread (on a different comment) that it's critical to determine if a structural cause is at play (i.e. tissue/nerve damage or something else causing inflammation). It is unfortunate however that many doctors are not familiar with modern pain science so I'm hoping spreading awareness via patients (and some practitioners) will change this.
In the next few blog posts this very thing will be discussed (i.e. exploring when it's likely something is mind related vs the body [though I will focus primarily on the former in this series] - as you're 100% correct sometimes it's the body and sometimes it's the mind, and sometimes it's both!).
It seems to be relatively common and under diagnosed. Also somehow controversial and not fully understood
However, looking into it might shed some light on some issues of chronic pain and potential ways to address it
I think there is a lot of strength that comes from waking up and doing the “hard” thing, whatever that is. I’ve had injuries, unexplained health issues, mental health issues, high stress, etc. I have found that for me, at least, refusal to let these things break me and meeting them head-on has been a positive overall for my quality of life.
To abstract it away some, I grew up hearing a lot of family members say things like, “I can’t do X anymore because of Y.” I just refuse to allow any of those damn Ys to kill off my beloved Xs, as far as I am able, despite whatever temporary pain or difficulty it may require me to go through. Sometimes telling the Ys to shut the hell up makes them go away completely. And when it doesn’t, sometimes I just have to be okay “embracing the suck” in order to prevent the Ys from bossing me around.
Westley: No. To the pain.
Ticks all the boxes:
- not a doctor
- not a physical therapist
- offering tips to solve your pain that somehow nobody could
- emphasizing a single "landmark" study with no other context
- results based off of personal experience
Guy is trying to become the RFK Jr of Aussie land.
No comments yet
not a cure and barely a treatment but it's one of the only tools in the toolbox
Modulates endorphin receptors (by blocking them for a little while)
Not only causes the body to produce more endorphins to reduce pain but is actually proven in studies to make the ion channels work better if dysfunctional
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=Low-Dose+Naltrexone
https://reddit.com/r/LowDoseNaltrexone
The best I've been able to find is kratom, but that's not without its concerns -- drug laws are no friend to pain patients (let alone society as a whole).
Pro tip: get a shingles vaccine if you are able to -- postherpetic neuralgia is no fun.
The "mind-body" thing is a great tool for doctors who are into abuse and take pleasure in having power over their patients.
"You are still having chronic pain, because you are not working hard enough!"
"No, I will not prescribe you medication. The pain is in your head!"
Oh and abusive partners also love this crap. You have a flare up? No you don't! You are just a lazy slob who doent't want to work and is whinging like a little baby. Stop imagining your pain!
GTFO with this crap.
In reality , nothing more than grifters. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a book or "masterclass" pitch at the end of this series.
unnecessary disclaimer here. when it comes to chronic pain treatment doctors are mostly useless or even harmful, proposing surgeries or drugs that will do more bad than anything else because they have no interest in learning how to customize their approach and will parrot and prescribe what they heard from medical representatives. Remember, the opoids crisis was enabled by doctors in the first place.
Those stupid pain face charts you see at hospitals, physician offices. Purdue marketing, nothing else.
Everybody is shitty here. This is what happens when a market has loose regulations.
I asked chatgpt to explain this to me and it did a poor job.
Generally speaking in my friend group. Chronic pain used to be opiods; though long ago medical cannabis came along. I couldnt tell you how many people i know who arent stoners who got into the cbd thing and fully got off opiods. 1 addiction for another, but at least cannabis has far less negatives.
>If you don’t have chronic pain and you’re just here for vibes and to see some cute brains, I really appreciate you .
The problem, CBD never fixes the pain. ~8 hours later you need more.
There's no business case for solving chronic pain. Here's my take.
1. There can be cases where there's something legitimately physically wrong causing chronic pain. In detroit I had a friend who got shot with birdshot, a tiny pellet was in his spine that surgeons didnt want to go after but there's no getting away from that pain. If this is the case, you're not seeking explanation.
2. There's stress/emotional pain. "The body keeps the score" by Bessel van der Kolk. He's big on EMDR and yoga. Your achilles pain and such absolutely could be, Probably something like 'change or abandonment' one of my favourites for yoga: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XhJ63OQ7Ww
Do that 23 minute video and see if it helps.
3. Mindfulness meditation. Get into the most comfortable position possible. Dont move; and far more difficult dont think. Your mind will wander. If the pain is in your achilles. The only thing you're doing is monitoring the pain. What's the exact shape of the pain? Is it 4 inches long or is it only 2 inches? Is it sharp like a knife, or is it round in shape? Do you have any taste, smell, or sound from it? You need to wait as long as you have to, maybe it only makes a sound every 2 minutes, you have to wait and your focus is only on waiting for the sound and nothing else.
4. Yoga nidra or progressive muscle relaxation. Start at your toes, you try to flex the muscles to the maximum and hold for 5 seconds, release. then do your feet, ankles, legs, every muscle has to have been flexed and held for 5 seconds. Then when you're done, you simply do nothing at all. dont even focus on anything; maybe your breath at most.
100%, medication plays a great role in providing comfort and support but it can be ineffective (and often harmful) if relied on solely for recovery from (neuroplastic) chronic pain.
> There's no business case for solving chronic pain
It seems some parties may be incentive aligned (e.g. insurers in Australia) - though I'm still navigating this space to find an approach which makes solving the root cause viable. Keen for your thoughts.
> 1.
Sorry to hear about your friend. This is often referred to as a structural diagnosis - i.e. where a knowledgable/proficient doctor has diagnosed there is legitimate tissue (nociceptive) or nerve (neuropathic) damage.
> 2.
Yep! This is what the series will be targeting, data points to a substantial percentage of chronic pain sufferers solely (or partially in comorbidities) being impacted by psychological disorder (otherwise known as neuroplastic pain / TMS / and a few other names!). There are a lot of causes and factors which have been shown in research to date, but largely it's adverse childhood experience, stress, personality traits, and more.
Will check out that vid!
> 3.
Related to this, there is an exercise called somatic tracking which has helped many people (including myself) - during it people often notice pain shifting throughout your body. This was a big turning point for me seeing how my mind behaves in real time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw1D_UvzIDA
Ive been sort of part of this sort of approach before. I was sysadmin, not a suit. These do tend to work out.
This is also the mechanism for how they squash and hide stuff that would cut into tylenol sales. Dont sell it, license it for periods of time is my recommendation.
Or you seem to agree much with my post. Put it together. The chronic pain fixer upper place that takes in patients and explains these things and trains them. You hire the emdr and yoga folks.
>Will check out that vid! Big fan of the body keeps the score.
It helped me for sure. I really need to try EMDR but never have. Id bet it works great. Adrienne is one of my favourites, but the science actual says slow yoga is more effective; whereas she needs to go quicker for video length.
>Related to this, there is an exercise called somatic tracking which has helped many people (including myself) - during it people often notice pain shifting throughout your body. This was a big turning point for me seeing how my mind behaves in real time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw1D_UvzIDA
3000 year old religious ritual :)
Its very interesting to me how science when i was young called this all hoo-haa pseudoscience but is now giving it a new name and saying it works.
You know what's interesting, my post is pretty heavily downvoted. I wonder what people disagreed with.
THC amongst its most minimal side effects increases my pain, not decreases it.
I would suggest everyone try everything that is open to them, but cannabis is not a miracle cure for every ailment.
It was my experience, and common knowledge in my circles at the time that THC made pain way, way worse, at least in resin form.
Probably simply because you'll tend to isolate things and focus on them very strongly when under the influence, it makes you notice pain more. I remember toking some days after a knee surgery and regretting badly having done it. So much pain I hadn't noticed...