Australian postcodes cover thousands. British Postcodes can be unique to a household.
Japanese postal addresses can be very unlike western addresses. The major unit chome then a sub, then sometimes an offset from a landmark or "street behind"
I've had late night taxi drives from stations have to check in at a Lawson to find the doorway.
Edinburgh has its own notation for which door on a stairwell which sometimes (if the gods will it) aligns to postal registry and council and utility billing. When it doesn't things get complicated. Glasgow, Dundee and Aberdeen all have their own variants of this stairwell door identifying notation as I understand it.
Dutch addresses putting the number after the street name can confuse people.
chmod775 · 1h ago
> Under the system, users can input these seven-digit codes on online shopping websites, and their addresses will automatically appear on the sites.
Why not just let people mail to that code, and the post office then looks up the actual address? That'd also avoid any issues with leaking personal information.
nine_k · 27m ago
> Their digital addresses will not change even if their physical addresses change.
Apparently he new system works a bit like DNS: the physical location may change, but the symbolic name stays. The resolution is done at the order time, not at the delivery time.
I suppose it's because the numerous e-commerce sites already support the physical address system. With the post office resolving the 7-character symbolic address to a physical address requires approximately zero changes in their existing systems, it's just an extra API call on the frontend. Support for direct use of the 7-character address would require serious changes.
Also, the 7-character address resolved to a physical address right before the customer's eyes works as an extra sanity check, and should limit the number of orders to a wrong address.
brody_hamer · 1h ago
Easier to roll out this way would be my guess?
With your approach, the burden is on the post office to update their handling process.
With the implemented approach, nothing changes about the postal process, and the burden of work is shifted to the sender, who must look up the code for the recipient’s current address.
xyst · 52m ago
Imagine inputting: "IiIIil" but meant to input "IiIIi1"
Oops now my package is going to Joe Blow on the other side of the country.
That’s probably why.
saulpw · 38m ago
25^7 is 6 billion, and there are fewer than 200m people in Japan. That's enough for one character to essentially be error correction.
slackr · 42m ago
Addresses in the Netherlands (much smaller country, I know) all work like this out of the box. People write their return addresses on envelopes that way too, like: 1234AB,56 (where 1234AB is a postal code for up to 15 or so addresses, and 56 is the house number)
presentation · 1h ago
On the actual site for these digital addresses [1], they mention some risks and countermeasures - translated:
> Risks and Countermeasures When Using the Service
> 1. Obtaining a Digital Address involves the following risks. Please use the service after understanding them.
> a. If a third party learns your Digital Address, they may be able to determine the corresponding address.
> b. Randomly entering a Digital Address may display the corresponding address.
> 2. Our company anticipates the above risks and has prepared the following mechanisms as countermeasures.
> a. Digital addresses can be deleted immediately, and the linkage between addresses and digital addresses can be disabled. Note that even if deleted once, a new digital address can be reacquired.
> b. The system has mechanisms to detect and prevent abnormal searches, such as a large number of searches in a short period of time.
> c. Even in the unlikely event of a personal information leak, our system is designed with leakage risks in mind to prevent personal identification. Digital address data is managed in a separate database from personal information such as email addresses and phone numbers, as shown below.
1a. is the primary concern for me, and while I can disassociate my identity from a digital address, that would defeat the purpose of using digital addresses to e.g. handle the case when moving. Sounds like they don't have a real answer to this security issue besides just accepting it.
If it were me, I would design it more this way after thinking about it a bit:
1. Japan Post lets you register your address to your Japan Post Account.
2. No static short code is created for your address.
3. Japan Post provides an API (like OAuth) for allowing you to persistently share your address location with a third party, say Rakuten, or Kuroneko Takkyubin, or something.
4. Once you've linked it to those services, they can use this API to get your address at any point in time.
5. You can unlink services whenever you want to revoke access, without changing any code.
6. No way to request an address for a Japan Post account without permission granted.
7. To handle cases like taxis, Japan Post can work with providers like GO Taxi, S.Ride, DiDi, etc. to do an authenticated one-time address share via NFC using the Japan Post App with the digital consoles already present in almost all taxis in major cities (no help for old taxis in the inaka, but that's a tradeoff).
a. or alternatively, persistently link your GO Taxi, S.Ride, etc. accounts to Japan Post for the same purpose.
b. and also potentially allowing to do such a key exchange with NFCs on smartphones or a standalone device, but probably taxi operators wouldn't be motivated enough to actually do that.
That way you just need to trust Japan Post and you can still get a decent amount of the convenience of address sharing.
fvrther · 1h ago
I just tried it and if you suspect it leaked you can delete it immediately and get a new one in 10mn
presentation · 1h ago
Yeah, but if a major point of convenience is that the underlying address can be changed without changing your digital address code, then that's lost every time you cycle it. Without that then this is an extremely minor convenience IMO.
Aziell · 2h ago
I actually really like this idea.
It’s genuinely convenient. The worst part of moving is updating your address everywhere, and even after doing it, you still worry something got missed.
But after reading the details, I’m a bit hesitant. The idea of the code staying the same even if the address changes sounds great. But if it still relies on people manually updating their info, isn’t it pretty easy for things to go wrong if someone forgets?
sarreph · 2h ago
> isn’t it pretty easy for things to go wrong if someone forgets?
What do you imagine going wrong? In my mind, if I had a digital address code, one of the first things I would do after moving would be to update it. Plus, the article alludes to functionality that displays (+ confirms) the physical address anyway…
Aziell · 2h ago
Yeah, you're probably right. Maybe I'm just overthinking it.
It's just that when people get busy, even the simplest things can slip through.
If the system had some kind of reminder or could sync automatically, that would make it perfect.
davchana · 1h ago
Since years I have yearned that USPS lets you rent a PO Box. Maybe divide the country in 5 to 10 parts, and allocate a special zip code for these. The po box is nothing but just a forwarding address. You as a user control its final destination in usps.com account. It is like a link shortener.
Somebody sends a letter to that address. Regular mail system forwards it to machines. There, machines stick a yellow or some color strip on it with its actual destination, then it comes to you. You could move and simply update usps.com address.
presentation · 1h ago
I think in some ways this is better, because I trust the USPS to not actually reveal the true address behind the PO Box. So you can still use the "link shortener" but behind a privacy wall.
Sure, maybe you can't use this for taxi rides, but that's a small price to pay.
numpad0 · 7h ago
It's more of a URL shortener. Users are assigned 7-digit alphanumeric code that macroexpands into full address on participating websites as well as on some paper application processes. There are few safety checks to prevent abuses, and linked address can be changed later when you move.
Many online address forms in Japan uses equivalent of ZIP code to do similar already, but the expanded address are as granular as ZIP codes - I always fill in the rest of the address, but if I think about it, the fractions of users who do religiously verify and clarify the addresses must be less than 100%. I suppose this code will initially solve that problem with minimal infra changes for both users and the PO.
lmz · 5h ago
But if it follows the person unchanged when they move then it's effectively a person addressing system / a synthetic ID for a person.
hn_throwaway_99 · 4h ago
One thing that wasn't quite clear to me is whether your code is what e-commerce companies record, or the expanded address.
Hopefully it's the code, because the benefit of this is that if you move, you wouldn't need to update your address with a bajillion different companies, just the post office.
dcsan · 3h ago
Interesting. More like a dns than physical address?
Entering building names can be a bit of a pain. I'm not even sure if it's required - according to Wikipedia it looks like you can just keep adding dashes until you eventually get to room number (e.g. 4-5-10-103) [1]. But a lot of address forms ask for it, so I end up entering it anyway.
The building name is required in many cases because two buildings next to each other will often have the same ban-chi-go (i.e. 4-5-10 could refer to two apartment buildings that were originally on the same lot, both with room 103).
It's exceedingly common, not just some edge-case you see every once in a while.
Tor3 · 3h ago
Quick question - you wrote "There are few safety checks" - did you mean "There are a few safety checks"? I'm trying to figure out if this is implemented badly or not.
powrhouse · 4h ago
Or just a hop of indirection like DNS that lets your "address" move with you.
This is Ireland's postal code system. There's a small level of privacy built in, specific to an address (many taxi drivers ask for this) and 7 digits long. Web forms use it too, so quite common in normal life.
Surprisingly the postal service, An Post, don't use the postal code as their primary way to direct mail (as far as I understand) .
phantomathkg · 1h ago
Sorry to say this is not the same. According to [0], the eircode is tied to the address, which Japan has already implemented a 7 digit postal code system. What this new way is trying to do instead is you can get a new digital address, in 7 character alphanumeric character, that uniquely addressed to you. So today you maybe in Tokyo, maybe a year later in Osaka. The postal code of your address changes, but the digital address will still be the same.
> An Post, don't use the postal code as their primary way to direct mail (as far as I understand) .
I'm not sure how the delivery system works exactly, but I think they use the eircode? Especially in the countryside there often isn't much more than that. At my previous address the street doesn't even have a name; but post addressed to "my name, town, eircode" got delivered.
Also when the eircode was first introduced it really messed up the delivery, which seems to indicate they're using it?
KoolKat23 · 7h ago
They do use it.
Sorry I have it the wrong way round, there was earlier confusion which led to the below article and my incorrect understanding.
The system uses the eircode and the postman uses the address. (It makes sense a person would use the street address.)
He's mostly, but not fully correct when talking about the randomness. The first 3 characters match the Dublin postal districts. People living in Dublin 12 start with D12. On one hand, maybe that's useful but on the other hand, it's a way for people to potentially discriminate based on the "good/bad" areas of the city.
coredog64 · 3h ago
If I have to give you D12 as my postal district anyhow, what is the new mechanism for discrimination?
comrade1234 · 10h ago
I thought this was something else... my cousin has been living in Japan 10+ years in a small town for on the other side of Mt Fuji from Tokyo and I went and stayed with him for a couple of weeks. Every day (maybe twice? I can't remember) loudspeakers on poles around the neighborhood would start playing amateurish announcements - some very old man half-asleep reading a list of events, news, etc. I was hoping they turned it digital and just sent it to your phone. For how peaceful things normally were in this town it was disruptive.
xdfgh1112 · 9h ago
In Okinawa I get music in the morning when kids need to go to school as well as random announcements.
Japan has always been weird like that - people are generally quiet and respectful of others, but when it comes to trucks driving around blaring out political speeches, or a "pay to take your large trash" van playing music while driving around to advertise its presence, all bets are off.
mc3301 · 5h ago
Those can be anything from daily announcements telling kids to get home before dark, testing the emergency announcement system, reminding people about today's festival, or asking people to be on the look-out for 89-year-old Takahashi-san who was last seen at the vegetable stand earlier this morning.
numpad0 · 6h ago
That thing is an air raid siren. It's broadcast from city or town offices, and everyone believes it's for disaster mitigation. Sure, but they run complete human in loop system readiness tests each day every day. You don't need that level of assured reliability for those community announcements.
Tor3 · 3h ago
Where I am there's now only some music at 17:00, ideally that should announce that it's time to leave work and go home, ffs.. but as this is Japan, it doesn't seem to serve a purpose - people don't go home. That music used to be a siren until a few years ago. I like the melody better.
We do get the aforementioned trucks driving around all day announcing loudly that they'll take your trash, for payment.. but it's very rare now. And the pole sellers seem to have disappeared entirely. I could use a new pole though.. for drying clothes. There has fortunately never been any political speech trucks around here. The town is too small I assume.
halpow · 11h ago
Japan is the perfect place for this because their house numbering system already requires you to look at a map to find it.
For those unfamiliar with it, numbers are incremented progressively around a block as doors are added to it. So the door "Block SanChome 4" could be on the opposite side of the building from "Block SanChome 6"
pezezin · 5h ago
It is even more complex than that: within a neighborhood you have "chome", then blocks, then buildings. All three levels are numbered chronologically and don't follow any kind of logical order. Oh, and streets don't have names. Honestly, I don't know how people did before modern navigation systems.
So yeah, this system looks like a godsend, I want to try it as soon as possible.
* I don't know if there is a translation for this word.
Tor3 · 3h ago
Indeed - at least now you can enter the property address (e.g. a four-digit number followed by a dash and another number, as in this small town) into google maps and it'll show you where it is. Not long ago it was more like driving in the general direction while hanging on the mobile phone and trying to agree on a landmark (e.g. a 7/11 or a tower or an office building) while trying to find the place.
Before mobile phones? Well, there's this big big sign in a park near the town center, and on that you can find family names on a kind of map.. of course that had this assumption that Nobody Never Moves. So, no, I don't know how people did this in the past..
"Where the Streets Have No Names", the U2 song. I wouldn't have imagined, but that's how it is.
sabellito · 11h ago
This won't change. The article starts:
> Japan Post said Monday that it has launched a "digital address" system that links seven-digit combinations of numbers and letters to physical addresses.
Their proposal is useful when one wants to move addresses.
bobthepanda · 11h ago
I don’t think they’re saying that the system is intended to replace old addressing but that the new proposed system is fine because the old addressing system, like this new one, is not very good at providing intuitive physical wayfinding anyways.
elif · 11h ago
Also useful for anyone who wants their personal residence recorded in less databases
montroser · 8h ago
Yeah but now it's a personal identifier that actually moves with you when you move to a different physical address. In terms of privacy, that might just be worse.
pezezin · 5h ago
How do you plan to order anything from an online shop without the shop knowing your delivery address?
Freak_NL · 10h ago
Doesn't it just give the shop a way to fetch the full address from some public API? I don't think you can just jot down that number on a box and have it delivered.
> Under the system, users can input these seven-digit codes on online shopping websites, and their addresses will automatically appear on the sites.
itpcc · 2h ago
Thailand have also tried to do Digital ID[0] thing since 2022[1]. Yet, we still have to do it in an traditional way anyway since its service is so limited.
I had this idea years ago when I was moving house and redirecting my post. I'm probably not alone in that. Kudos to Japan Post for implementing it.
mcoliver · 1h ago
Call me crazy but I want this for my digital profile. Let me register and login to apps and websites with an id that is a pointer to my profile where I can update my emails, phones, addresses, profile photo, website, etc.. of course the question is who is the owner of that service. Self host, block chain, public company, non profit, government. Tradeoffs with all of them.
HarHarVeryFunny · 4h ago
> People can obtain digital addresses by registering with Japan Post's Yu ID membership service. Their digital addresses will not change even if their physical addresses change.
OK, so your social security number is your "digital address", and the post office has a database of everyone's current address.
I'm not sure what problem this solves. Shaves seconds off the time it takes you to write an address? Better hope they've got error correction built in, since normal addresses are fairly "fault tolerant" in terms of still being deliverable.
If you move you still need to notify them, although perhaps in Japan big brother already knows you've moved.
__turbobrew__ · 4h ago
> I'm not sure what problem this solves
Have you moved addresses before? It is a giant pain to track down all the services which send you letter mail and change your address with them. With an extra layer of indirection you only need to update your address in one place when you move. Think of it like DNS for physical addresses.
evidencetamper · 4h ago
> If you move you still need to notify them, although perhaps in Japan big brother already knows you've moved.
When we move, we need to register our address change at the city hall. In terms of Big Brother, that's a given.
The problem is that we also need to change all bank, bills, etc. too. So this replaces the need for mail forwarding, for example.
forgotoldacc · 3h ago
> Shaves seconds off the time it takes you to write an address?
More like minutes. Address input in Japan is a colossal pain in the ass. You have some sites that only allow half-width characters (e.g., ｷﾀ), some that only allow full width (キタ), some that require you to write your address twice and once in romaji, which can be half width (kita) or full width (ｋｉｔａ), some require you to write it in hiragana instead, sometimes numbers need to be full width(123 vs １２３), sometimes addresses have random unicode symbols like ・or Ⅲ (yes, Roman numerals are common in addresses) or ⑧ which may or may not be recognized, and more. There's no standardization in addresses at all and no street names, so every building gets some bizarre-ass name unique to it and the names sound like the title of a JRPG. You might even get stuff like 〜ＴＨＥﾋﾞｯｸﾞPALACEモナコ：Dréam Ⅱ〜
And the fun thing: every site has its own input standards, and no, they don't tell you what the error was. Most simply say "You can't submit. There's something wrong on this page." Some let you hit the send button, fail, and make you input everything all over again.
Having a code to input an address saves users loads of time and stress, assuming web developers implement it.
latentsea · 19m ago
It often doesn't compute for people when I tell them that even Japanese people can't read Japanese. Once you've experienced crap like this it really makes you appreciate it on a deeper level. Addresses and place names in general are a near unusable cluster fuck that somehow everyone just manages to put up with.
kalleboo · 4h ago
> Shaves seconds off the time it takes you to write an address?
Entering Japanese addresses on Japanese websites can often be a PITA, with weird requirements for where to split the address sections, fullwidth vs halfwidth, spacing, and even what type of dash you use (ー vs －). I don't think I've ever had Safari's auto-fill be able to do it successfully.
voxelghost · 4h ago
>OK, so your social security number is your "digital address", and the post office has a database of everyone's current address.'
No, not really, Yu-ID is not the same as the My-ID (akin to social security number). So you wont have to reveal your social security to your taxi driver etc. if that was what you worried about.
>If you move you still need to notify them, although perhaps in Japan big brother already knows you've moved.
Yes you would have to change the physical address for your Yu-ID, but you don't need to tell all your acquaintances to update their greeting-card address list ( they can still send to the same Yu-ID)
Another case might be that you are temporarily living at a 'summer-residence' , or that work takes you to a new locations for months at the time.
sollniss · 2h ago
>So you wont have to reveal your social security to your taxi driver etc. if that was what you worried about.
Yea, but now this taxi driver will forever know where I live.
Thanks, but no thanks.
growlNark · 4h ago
> Shaves seconds off the time it takes you to write an address?
Presumably it'd be pretty nice if you lost touch with someone.
HarHarVeryFunny · 4h ago
Also pretty convenient for sending harassing mail to people who'd rather you didn't.
maxgashkov · 3h ago
It solves an issue of Japanese addressing system being a total mess. There is basically a wild wild west when it comes to the address part on most of the ecommerce sites in Japan: some offer address auto-complete via zip code, some don't; some require a building name, some don't; and the address itself may be written down in different ways. Having a source of truth in a form of a provider which has vested interest in keeping the address uniformly correct on entry is god sent here.
powrhouse · 4h ago
DNS for IRL addresses. If you move, you only need to change the address in one place and all your mail will follow you.
waiwai933 · 4h ago
But now you only need to notify the post office, rather than every company who sends you physical mail.
donnachangstein · 11h ago
This being Japan, you still have to sign for your digital delivery with a rubber ink stamp.
GloriousKoji · 10h ago
If it was modernized a little, I think I would enjoy needing to tap a RFID hanko to my phone to sign for digital delivery.
donnachangstein · 10h ago
> tap a RFID hanko
we call those contactless smart cards
kazinator · 10h ago
RFID isn't smart; it's just a little chip that harvests energy from being illuminated by a radio wave signal from the terminal, and reflects back a code. (Well, that's a passive tag; there are self-powered ones also.)
Smart cards contain a considerable embedded system for transactional processing; it's quite different from just transmitting an ID.
abdullahkhalids · 6h ago
Correct. These IC cards [1] do some cryptography, right?
That's not correct. Smartcards are any cards with chips, RFIDs are any cards/tags with radios. Neither has to do with cryptography.
donnachangstein · 9h ago
> RFID isn't smart
Makes it utterly useless as a digital signature then.
kazinator · 8h ago
Correct; an RFID tag cannot hold a cryptographic secret and perform a calculation with it to prove that it knows the secret, without revealing the secret. It has no compute capability. It's just a kind of reflective beacon.
AStonesThrow · 6h ago
False: RFID is a communications technology that doesn’t restrict the use of a “smart” processor.
EMV, NFC, and RFID are all related technologies which may underlie “tap to pay / sign” features.
RFID: Radio Frequency Identification: passive powered by RF, returns data when powered.
NFC: Near Field Communications, is a protocol for communications, built on RFID, includes polling for readers and protocols for defined crypto and data storage/retrieval.
EMV: Eurocard/Mastercard/Visa standard for the data and crypto operations for an EMV chip, extended from physical by the use of NFC for contactless payments, primarily by replicating the data on the magstripe and adding some additional crypto and dynamic elements.
EMV is one standard for how to use an NFC card, there are others, primarily used for transit.
Freak_NL · 10h ago
I wish we had those hanko. Signing off on any parcel is complete bullshit at the moment. Most delivery drivers neglect to ask for one (or that code you are supposed to give them for some delivery services), and when they do, you just make some arbitrary squiggle on their handheld device — it's not like you can actually do a faithful reproduction of your signature on those, even in 2025, and I certainly can't using my finger instead of a pencil or pen.
Yesterday a courier brought a pallet with my new drill press costing over €500. Signature required, but when I asked he told me not to worry, there was no need…
k33l0r · 6h ago
The fundamental problem with deliveries is that you, as the recipient, are not the customer.
The merchant pays for thousands of deliveries, but you on the receiving end are at best getting a handful.
So the courier is incentivised to offer the best rates to the merchant while completely ignoring the requirements or preferences of the recipient.
Your only recourse is to complain to the shop, who might do something if the volume of complaints is high enough, but most likely they’ll just pass the buck to the courier…
dmurray · 5h ago
The recipient getting their stuff stolen is a big deal for the merchant too, though.
Certainly for an expensive item, the customer may be out their time, but they are going to ask for a replacement or a refund or do a chargeback, the merchant is generally going to have to accede to the request, and the merchant ends up being out money.
So if the merchant decides to trade off security for delivery cost (by choosing a courier with a slack approach to verification), that's their prerogative and they are economically incentivized to make the right decision on that.
For delivery problems that don't result in a chargeback (the courier leaves it somewhere inconvenient, or claims you weren't in, etc, but it eventually gets to you) that's the situation where it becomes your problem and the merchant isn't much empowered or incentivized to fix it.
Tor3 · 2h ago
Agreed about the signing.. that's useless. But at least for some shipments with value we have to show an ID (not just any ID - I always carry my passport though), back in my home country. Just signing is worthless, in particular when that implies trying to "write" something on a touch screen using your finger.
Here in Japan there's typically this little circle where you're supposed to stamp you hanko.. but I just sign my name, with a pen, whether the parcel is for me or for my wife. But at least the delivery guy will have me read the form to verify that it's actually for someone in the household.
Not that I would prefer the hanko.. that idiocy just have to go. I can see no safety in the system, it's just a made-up stamp after all. It has no place in a modern world. And it's on the way out, as far as I understand, but I still hear stories about people forgetting the hanko when they go to the bank, and despite having passports and other IDs they're denied service. And you need to bring that thing everywhere for contracts and the like.. and everything has to be done by physical presence.
donnachangstein · 10h ago
UPS driver left a $3500 MacBook Pro on my front steps, didn't even ring the bell... signature required my ass.
ortusdux · 10h ago
Most delivery companies enacted signature exemption rules for covid and are in no hurry to rescind them. Getting signatures takes time, which affects their bottom line.
toomuchtodo · 10h ago
Protip: Ask for hold at location. Downside, you must drive to the facility. Upside, less hassle than if package is pirated.
UPS closed my local facility to the public last month. Now I can only drop packages off at third parties for a fee, and the nearest hold location is over an hour away.
ghaff · 9h ago
UPS was very unfriendly for consumer dropoffs for ages. That changed a bit. But seems to be headed back and I rarely get deliveries of Amazon stuff via UPS any longer.
ghaff · 9h ago
I suppose it depends on your assessment of the risk. For me, taking an extra 30-45 minutes to pick something up is a pretty high bar. I've had a couple mis-deliveries at home but it's rare and think I eventually got the items. That's versus hundreds of other deliveries.
somat · 4h ago
Salutes for using the term piracy correctly, well done.
ghaff · 10h ago
Don't know the last time I've been required to sign for something. That said, I live in a semi-rural location very well off the road.
oniony · 7h ago
Ass print?
Tijdreiziger · 10h ago
Signature required shifts the burden of proof.
If your drill press had been delivered to the wrong person, and the sender had chosen insured delivery (which automatically requires a signature), it would be easy to prove that the signature on file with the transporter did not match the actual signature of the recipient (i.e. you) (unless a fraudster forged your signature, that is).
Mind you, from what I understand, the seller is legally responsible up to the point of delivery in the Netherlands*. Therefore, even if your drill press hadn’t been sent with required signature, the shop would still be responsible in case it had been lost (but then the loss would come out of their own pocket, rather than that of the transporter).
Disclaimer: not a lawyer.
* Assuming you’re from the Netherlands due to your user name.
Freak_NL · 9h ago
All that means is that as the receiving party there is absolutely no reason for me to sign anything, or even use my actual signature.
Indeed, if the pallet was delivered to the wrong address and someone just took it, the burden of proof would lie with the selling party. Of course, a reputable transporter will make sure the address is right (plus, people generally don't act as if they were indeed expecting a pallet delivered by lorry).
Tijdreiziger · 7h ago
> All that means is that as the receiving party there is absolutely no reason for me to sign anything, or even use my actual signature.
Yes, but this actually doesn’t matter.
The only time when the signature on file is actually relevant is when the sender lodges a claim for non-delivery. In that case, it could be compared to your actual signature.
Conversely, if no claim is lodged, the package must have been successfully delivered.
Disclaimer: not a lawyer.
SchemaLoad · 6h ago
I bought a Steam Deck off amazon and they sent me a code on the day of delivery telling me to only provide this code to the delivery person face to face while receiving the parcel.
That seems like the perfect system because if you assume Amazon isn't trying to steal from you, the system can prove if the parcel was properly delivered or not.
tokioyoyo · 7h ago
Things have changed in the recent past, and you very rarely need your hanko. Maybe for marriage? Nowadays you cab register your signature at a bank and use it for any activity as well.
xdfgh1112 · 9h ago
I've never had to do that. Hand signature or nothing at all.
ekianjo · 6h ago
Nope. Signature works everytime. Don't spread myths.
nickpeterson · 10h ago
Probably print a receipt using a fax machine hooked to a pc-engine.
pezezin · 5h ago
You misspelled PC-98.
richardw · 7h ago
Almost perfect. Along with mail that follows you, I’ve always wanted a system that lets you grant the right to send you mail, that you can hard revoke. Physical and digital. We could call it “slightly more complex mail protocol”. No more layers of filters, just grant and revoke.
fvrther · 1h ago
Hello, I live in Japan, the thing they don't tell in the article is the Japan Post Digital Address can be tied to the MyNumber system.
It's an official ID card you're required to update by law every time you move, and they plan to link the address of both systems. Meaning every time you update you address on your ID it will automatically propagate everywhere.
In Japan the MyNumber system is live since a few years and a single card can already be used:
* As driving license
* As a unified heath insurance card
* As a unified way to retrieve prescribed medications, lab results, vaccinations..
* For doing the taxes and receive pension
* As a foreigner residence card (very soon)
* For digital signing of official papers (as a way to replace the Hanko stamp culture, it's working but not yet widely used)
The digital ministry is also expected to unveil an Apple Wallet integration in a few months to avoid having to carry the card.
whydoineedthis · 1h ago
So, like, a public ss# tied to an address.
fvrther · 1h ago
Exactly, but I'm not familiar with the American SS# system honestly
perihelions · 11h ago
"We can solve any problem by introducing an extra level of indirection"
As someone who recently moved to Japan, I'm so happy this is a thing. Their addressing system is a little painful.
presentation · 1h ago
As someone who has lived in Japan for the better part of a decade, I am not as excited; at some point I just got used to it and can't recall feeling any pain from it for many years at this point. There are other things that are much more painful than this.
isk517 · 11h ago
When I read 7-digit my first thought was this seems a bit short sighted. Then I saw the the address was going to be a combination of letters and numbers. Since this is the English page for The Japan Times I'll give them a pass on using the wrong word.
elif · 10h ago
Letters are digits. Just not base 10.
Alphanumeric codes are mathematically speaking a completely identical set to base 36 numerics
brynet · 11h ago
> Their [virtual] addresses will not change even if their physical addresses change.
So they've added an MMU (Mail Management Unit).
salynchnew · 10h ago
An address addressing system.
kazinator · 10h ago
This is a nice solution for a good chunk snail mail spam.
The next step would be to refuse to route mail other than to a digital address.
Next step, allow users to have short-lived, throwaway digital addresses which are nest to worthless to harvesters, who have mere weeks to act on them.
The post office should conceal the real addresses, not allowing outsiders access to the database. You shouldn't have to tell someone where you live in order to receive something by mail from them.
tantalor · 9h ago
Nice idea but (according to the article) that's not how it works:
> Under the system, users can input these seven-digit codes on online shopping websites, and their addresses will automatically appear on the sites.
So the sites still use the physical address. In fact, the postal service itself doesn't even use the code.
The purpose is to simplify form input on websites, which was already solved by browser autocomplete.
Tor3 · 2h ago
Browser autocomplete works Really Badly for Japanese addresses (no standardized way of inputting addresses, including which font to use), so it should solve one major problem in Japan. That's different from e.g. my home country. Or almost anywhere else, for that matter.
xenadu02 · 7h ago
Well Japan's physical address system everywhere except Kyoto is complete insanity. Every level get assigned numbers based on build order so block 6 can be across town from block 7 for no apparent reason.
Feel free to have any addressing system you like; it need not be number, street, city, state/province like many western countries. But it should at least make some logical sense.
genocidicbunny · 3h ago
I've lived in a town in the US that did the same thing. House numbers were assigned based on the order that properties were built up or split, so you had a lot of places where you'd have several houses in a row that had consecutive numbers, and then the next house would have a much higher number. One of my neighbors had lived there for decades, his house number was in the triple digits. Mine was 5 digits. Neighbor next to me was also 5 digits, but several thousand higher than mine because his house was built almost a decade after mine.
As a sister post said, the build order is that logical reason.
ekianjo · 6h ago
> so block 6 can be across town from block 7 for no apparent reason.
The time when they were built is the reason
rtpg · 6h ago
there's already an address alias system that things like Mercari (think Japanese eBay) has.
You buy something from somebody, they get a QR code and use that to get a delivery label. Delivery label doesn't have your address on it, only the delivery company knows where it's going.
Obviously it doesn't prevent something like "there's an airtag in the box" but it does prevent you having to tell the person selling you a used copy of Resident Evil 5 where you live.
voxelghost · 4h ago
arrange all people in a graph with distance of how well they 'know' each other. Then divide the graph into subnets, and implement an addressing scheme akin to IP v4.
Now we can have masked access-list, and block lists.
karaterobot · 5h ago
> Japan Post plans to spend about a decade to promote broad adoption of the new system.
The actual feature doesn't seem mind-blowingly useful to me, in the era where most of my form fields get populated for me automatically anyway. Doesn't seem bad, just I don't see it being a life changing thing. I'd hope it does not work as a way for the Post to learn a little bit about my shopping habits. Probably not. Who knows.
But what I think is cool is a ten-year commitment to any computer-based system, which is sadly rare to see these days.
Tor3 · 2h ago
As some other comments mentioned, the way addresses are entered in web forms in Japan is not standardized. So autofill just doesn't work, a lot of the time. It may even seem correct, but then this particular site wants the address to be written differently.. half-width vs full-width characters, for example (and it can be way more complicated than that). It's so complicated to even enter your name that my Japanese wife couldn't get it right on a hotel's web form, whatever she tried. With her Japanese PC. Had to book by phone, in the end (and, as we weren't in Japan at the time, that was a costly phone call)
freetime2 · 5h ago
I've had some bad experiences with form autocompletion in the past which resulted in orders being delayed (this would have been a few years ago with 1Password specifically), so I always enter address and payment info manually. I assume plenty of people use autocompletion all the time without issue, and will tell me I'm wrong, but that's just my preference.
So memorizing a 7-digit code to enter address information without error seems like a useful feature to me (though admittedly not mind-blowingly so).
It could also be useful in other contexts such as sharing an address with someone verbally, over LINE, manually entering an address into a GPS, etc. Assuming the system actually catches on and the codes are universally supported in map apps.
wesleychen · 5h ago
It's very useful if you change addresses often.
lucyjojo · 5h ago
if the servers keep the number and not the rendered address, it would save you ungodly amount of times when you move... (you have to go to the city office, register stuff, can take a few hours, then to the police to change your car license, then bank accounts, takes time too, etc. it's a pain)
nan60 · 11h ago
This is really cool. Japanese addresses are longer and more complex than most North American/European ones, so this especially makes sense there.
SoftTalker · 11h ago
Even in the USA, the full 9-digit "Zip + 4" code will often identify a specific building. And some really big customers (e.g. the IRS) will have their own 5-digit zip code.
reaperducer · 7h ago
Even in the USA, the full 9-digit "Zip + 4" code will often identify a specific building.
It can be even more granular than that. ZIP+4+2 is a thing.
JumpCrisscross · 5h ago
The wild thing is we could easily do this with a zip + 4 + 2, given each zip + 4 shouldn't route to more than two dozen addresses [1]. (Or 8 alphanumeric digits.)
That's true, and it would be much easier to remember, but then you lose the feature where you move to somewhere else but you still use the same code - which is also a function of this system (you just update your address once, in that public database). And everyone who already have your digital id will automatically get your new delivery address, unlike if they just have your zip+4+2.
rester324 · 2h ago
Without knowing anything about the technical details, this sounds like a new type of URN to me
frzen · 11h ago
This sounds like the Irish Eircode system
7 characters made up of letters and numbers let you find a specific building.
ProblemFactory · 11h ago
This seems more interesting, as it's not a code for a physical address but a lookup key for one.
You can update your code to point to a new address when you move:
> Their digital addresses will not change even if their physical addresses change. Their new addresses will be linked to the codes if they submit notices of address changes.
PerilousD · 9h ago
So I HOPE you cant mis-type an email address and get it sent to someone else. I get so many bank account statements, library book and device rental notices, car is ready for pickup, or from repair etc notices. ALL APPARENTLY from Bozos who dont know their OWN email addresses. On the other hand on the 2nd notice *I usually do not get a third) when I tell garages/ car impounds / parking spaces to sell the damn thing as Im done with it.
No comments yet
politelemon · 11h ago
> Their digital addresses will not change even if their physical addresses change.
This doesn't sound good for privacy or security, though it's a nice convenience function.
Marsymars · 11h ago
This idea is so close to being great though. It just needs a couple changes:
> Under the system, users can input these seven-digit codes on online shopping websites, and their addresses will automatically appear on the sites.
1. The site shouldn’t get your address at all. They print the code on the package, mail it to Japan Post, and Japan Post takes care of delivering it to you.
2. You should be able to generate new codes arbitrarily.
i.e. A service like Apple’s Hide My Email, but for physical mail.
maxgashkov · 3h ago
Japan Post represents only a portion of shipping providers in Japan, for our idea to work others will need the same privileged access to the system: Yamato, Sagawa etc.
This will also require to alter the package label on the last mile because requiring the courier to scan every package or letter before they could even see an apartment number will slow things down to a crawl.
BurningFrog · 9h ago
It would be pretty trivial to mark some addresses as private. So only the delivery service can resolve it.
My guess is that's already planned, but they don't put all details in the first press release.
bluehex · 9h ago
The "important notes" section on the Japanese page[1] says that you can disable / delete an address at any time and create a new one. If I used this I would rotate every so often and at a minimum for each move. I'm a bit concerned for people that don't understand the risks of updating these. Anyone that's ever seen this code being able to lookup the person's address across moves is scary. I don't feel like this convenience warrants the risk of having this feature, personally. It's already convenient enough to just limit the input required for updating third parties to an alphanumeric code without allowing updating the addresses.
What does this solve? Are Japanese addresses that complex? Does the population of Japan move around quite frequently thus the need for some static identifier?
I don’t see any particular upside at this point. It suffers from "weak enumeration" and possibly make stalking much easier.
(( sure govt will try to limit queries but there are many ways around it. Govt will spend millions over the next few years playing cat and mouse while ))
andy_ppp · 5h ago
Is this partially because Japan has no street names making specific addresses less clear than in most countries?
Tor3 · 2h ago
It's more because entering addresses on web forms can be a major problem in Japan, there's no system to it. You have to use the correct font (half-width, full-width), and sometimes you have to write it twice, and sometimes with different characters, and much more.
And the other thing this system does is that the same code will work when you move somewhere else, as long as you re-register your address. Once.
The missing street address used to be a big problem. The postal delivery people had (and still have, of course) a way to look up your address - which is really just the property number, in the area where I live) and find it on a map. Normal people couldn't. But now we can enter the property number into e.g. google maps, and it'll find the actual location. Which, of course, means that you need to be online with your digital device. Which I wouldn't be until recently (I've got this pocket wifi now), unless I was in a wifi area.
In my home country I can easily find any location just by someone telling me the street name and number. No map needed, no online presence.. my home address has a property id, known by the city, and a street address, for everybody else. Japan is like that, just that the street address is missing..
TulliusCicero · 11h ago
By letters do they mean Latin/English alphabet, or hiragana/katakana characters?
Triple metaphors? I don't like it now, they went too far.
numpad0 · 6h ago
Non-ASCII symbols are kind of non-canonical and don't parse well, even today. Japanese developers are deeply aware of that, so generated identifiers in Japanese systems are almost always either hyphenated numeric or occasionally ASCII alphanumeric. Only when said identifier are guaranteed to never need programmatic handling, or when the system can have complete control of input and output, non-ASCII characters start appearing.
OJFord · 10h ago
I wonder how it works if you have two addresses. (I suppose one possible answer could be that it just doesn't, you register your main one, if you want the other you have to enter it in full.)
kazinator · 10h ago
It seems obvious to me that you would just register a digital address for each of those two addresses.
762236 · 11h ago
Everyone's got an address in the world-wide plus-code system, and they're used for deliveries in many countries: maps.google.com/pluscodes/
xbryanx · 11h ago
How do plus codes handle elevations(floors) or rooms within a building? It seems that the Japan Post system allows for this.
genocidicbunny · 2h ago
Or even just addresses that are split between multiple pluscodes?
For example, a duplex where the front door of each unit is adjacent to the other. Even at the 4m resolution, that means both units front doors (and thus street addresses) can fall into one single pluscode.
varenc · 3h ago
This is a key distinction. Plus codes map to a 14m x 14m square area and aren't aware of things like building units or elevation.
If you live in a high rise apartment, a plus code does not identify you precisely. Sadly to do this you need some knowledge of a structure's internals. It makes sense it's being done on the national level in Japan.
mynameisvlad · 10h ago
> Everyone's got an address in the world-wide plus-code system
Debatable considering it's based on lat/lon only.
> used for deliveries in many countries
Source? Their own website only lists 3 use cases, and only one is used for mail delivery, and even that is in Kolkata only.
constantcrying · 10h ago
A location based system can not possibly work on its own. Mail is not send to one physical address, it is delivered to a specific person.
soorya3 · 7h ago
If we could use use gps co-ordinate then it would make all the life simpler. Imagine how many time you type those address info on the forms and not to forget typing mistakes.
xxpor · 7h ago
How do you account for apartment buildings? Include your elevation? :)
9dev · 7h ago
Why not an email address that you can add a physical address to on the platform of your national postal service? Have parcels be sent to the email address, and the postal service resolves that at dispatch time to your current address. No hassle when moving, no spreading your address everywhere, easy to remember.
AStonesThrow · 6h ago
The USPS is currently delivering some mailpieces electronically.
When I sign in to Informed Delivery, every month or so the USPS sends a postcard advertising their podcast (“Mailin’ It!”)
This is a virtual postcard, so while I can read it in my email or on usps.com, I won’t necessarily find a paper copy delivered.
It is my understanding that commercial mailings can also use this mechanism. I receive some marketing as original JPEG quality, rather than being scanned in grayscale.
crubier · 7h ago
I don't know, I feel like "38.57266, -9.19670" is harder to remember than "55 bridge street, foobar city, mexico". Maybe What3Words would be better: "///obscure.loftily.tasting", but it does not give any idea on locality.
eightys3v3n · 6h ago
We could use Google Plus codes instead.
They look like 3W4J+622 Calgary, Alberta.
The digits after the + can be added or removed to increase of decrease accuracy. They can but need not be also be replaced partially with a locality like Calgary, Alberta.
nivertech · 10h ago
Reminded me of a dot-com era colleague who left to start a startup that would notify your friends when your email address changed ;)
But this thing sounds like a Rube Goldberg machine. A much simpler solution is to have the subscriber log into their account and change their address
constantcrying · 10h ago
Very cool.
The German Post already has "digital stamps", you buy them online and then you just have to write a couple of symbols on the envelope.
If you combined these together you would get a letter which can be fully paid for and addressed by writing a couple of symbols on it, only meaningful to the computer system. In a way this is making the physical world quite digital.
Gothmog69 · 10h ago
I've always wanted this
ericdiao · 11h ago
The ZIP code system in the US CAN somewhat work the same way.
The usual 5 digit ZIP code routes to your Post Office. The longer ZIP+4 code routes more detailed locations: a city block, an apartment building. The even longer ZIP+6 code goes to something called delivery point, which to my understanding is basically a single mailbox. The ZIP+6 code is in fact embedded in the bar code sprayed onto the mail piece.
smw · 11h ago
Though you might have missed the concept that it follows you if you move, I think?
d-us-vb · 11h ago
he said "somewhat work the same way". For a person who doesn't care about whether they have to get a new code when they move, the systems are equivalent in their value proposition. Thus is the case for most things that "somewhat work the same way".
Japanese postal addresses can be very unlike western addresses. The major unit chome then a sub, then sometimes an offset from a landmark or "street behind"
I've had late night taxi drives from stations have to check in at a Lawson to find the doorway.
Edinburgh has its own notation for which door on a stairwell which sometimes (if the gods will it) aligns to postal registry and council and utility billing. When it doesn't things get complicated. Glasgow, Dundee and Aberdeen all have their own variants of this stairwell door identifying notation as I understand it.
Dutch addresses putting the number after the street name can confuse people.
Why not just let people mail to that code, and the post office then looks up the actual address? That'd also avoid any issues with leaking personal information.
Apparently he new system works a bit like DNS: the physical location may change, but the symbolic name stays. The resolution is done at the order time, not at the delivery time.
I suppose it's because the numerous e-commerce sites already support the physical address system. With the post office resolving the 7-character symbolic address to a physical address requires approximately zero changes in their existing systems, it's just an extra API call on the frontend. Support for direct use of the 7-character address would require serious changes.
Also, the 7-character address resolved to a physical address right before the customer's eyes works as an extra sanity check, and should limit the number of orders to a wrong address.
With your approach, the burden is on the post office to update their handling process.
With the implemented approach, nothing changes about the postal process, and the burden of work is shifted to the sender, who must look up the code for the recipient’s current address.
Oops now my package is going to Joe Blow on the other side of the country.
That’s probably why.
[1] https://lp.da.pf.japanpost.jp
What do you imagine going wrong? In my mind, if I had a digital address code, one of the first things I would do after moving would be to update it. Plus, the article alludes to functionality that displays (+ confirms) the physical address anyway…
Somebody sends a letter to that address. Regular mail system forwards it to machines. There, machines stick a yellow or some color strip on it with its actual destination, then it comes to you. You could move and simply update usps.com address.
Sure, maybe you can't use this for taxi rides, but that's a small price to pay.
Many online address forms in Japan uses equivalent of ZIP code to do similar already, but the expanded address are as granular as ZIP codes - I always fill in the rest of the address, but if I think about it, the fractions of users who do religiously verify and clarify the addresses must be less than 100%. I suppose this code will initially solve that problem with minimal infra changes for both users and the PO.
Hopefully it's the code, because the benefit of this is that if you move, you wouldn't need to update your address with a bajillion different companies, just the post office.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_addressing_system
It's exceedingly common, not just some edge-case you see every once in a while.
This is Ireland's postal code system. There's a small level of privacy built in, specific to an address (many taxi drivers ask for this) and 7 digits long. Web forms use it too, so quite common in normal life.
Surprisingly the postal service, An Post, don't use the postal code as their primary way to direct mail (as far as I understand) .
[0] https://www.eircode.ie/getting-an-eircode [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_codes_in_Japan
I'm not sure how the delivery system works exactly, but I think they use the eircode? Especially in the countryside there often isn't much more than that. At my previous address the street doesn't even have a name; but post addressed to "my name, town, eircode" got delivered.
Also when the eircode was first introduced it really messed up the delivery, which seems to indicate they're using it?
Sorry I have it the wrong way round, there was earlier confusion which led to the below article and my incorrect understanding.
The system uses the eircode and the postman uses the address. (It makes sense a person would use the street address.)
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/an-post-c...
Addresses are one of those things that “what programmers frequently get wrong about X”.
https://www.eircode.ie/business/business-overview
Japan has always been weird like that - people are generally quiet and respectful of others, but when it comes to trucks driving around blaring out political speeches, or a "pay to take your large trash" van playing music while driving around to advertise its presence, all bets are off.
We do get the aforementioned trucks driving around all day announcing loudly that they'll take your trash, for payment.. but it's very rare now. And the pole sellers seem to have disappeared entirely. I could use a new pole though.. for drying clothes. There has fortunately never been any political speech trucks around here. The town is too small I assume.
For those unfamiliar with it, numbers are incremented progressively around a block as doors are added to it. So the door "Block SanChome 4" could be on the opposite side of the building from "Block SanChome 6"
So yeah, this system looks like a godsend, I want to try it as soon as possible.
* I don't know if there is a translation for this word.
> Japan Post said Monday that it has launched a "digital address" system that links seven-digit combinations of numbers and letters to physical addresses.
Their proposal is useful when one wants to move addresses.
> Under the system, users can input these seven-digit codes on online shopping websites, and their addresses will automatically appear on the sites.
Ref:
[0] https://www.thailandpost.co.th/un/article_detail/article/11/... [1] https://workpointtoday.com/digital-post-id/
OK, so your social security number is your "digital address", and the post office has a database of everyone's current address.
I'm not sure what problem this solves. Shaves seconds off the time it takes you to write an address? Better hope they've got error correction built in, since normal addresses are fairly "fault tolerant" in terms of still being deliverable.
If you move you still need to notify them, although perhaps in Japan big brother already knows you've moved.
Have you moved addresses before? It is a giant pain to track down all the services which send you letter mail and change your address with them. With an extra layer of indirection you only need to update your address in one place when you move. Think of it like DNS for physical addresses.
When we move, we need to register our address change at the city hall. In terms of Big Brother, that's a given.
The problem is that we also need to change all bank, bills, etc. too. So this replaces the need for mail forwarding, for example.
More like minutes. Address input in Japan is a colossal pain in the ass. You have some sites that only allow half-width characters (e.g., ｷﾀ), some that only allow full width (キタ), some that require you to write your address twice and once in romaji, which can be half width (kita) or full width (ｋｉｔａ), some require you to write it in hiragana instead, sometimes numbers need to be full width(123 vs １２３), sometimes addresses have random unicode symbols like ・or Ⅲ (yes, Roman numerals are common in addresses) or ⑧ which may or may not be recognized, and more. There's no standardization in addresses at all and no street names, so every building gets some bizarre-ass name unique to it and the names sound like the title of a JRPG. You might even get stuff like 〜ＴＨＥﾋﾞｯｸﾞPALACEモナコ：Dréam Ⅱ〜
And the fun thing: every site has its own input standards, and no, they don't tell you what the error was. Most simply say "You can't submit. There's something wrong on this page." Some let you hit the send button, fail, and make you input everything all over again.
Having a code to input an address saves users loads of time and stress, assuming web developers implement it.
Entering Japanese addresses on Japanese websites can often be a PITA, with weird requirements for where to split the address sections, fullwidth vs halfwidth, spacing, and even what type of dash you use (ー vs －). I don't think I've ever had Safari's auto-fill be able to do it successfully.
No, not really, Yu-ID is not the same as the My-ID (akin to social security number). So you wont have to reveal your social security to your taxi driver etc. if that was what you worried about.
>If you move you still need to notify them, although perhaps in Japan big brother already knows you've moved.
Yes you would have to change the physical address for your Yu-ID, but you don't need to tell all your acquaintances to update their greeting-card address list ( they can still send to the same Yu-ID)
Another case might be that you are temporarily living at a 'summer-residence' , or that work takes you to a new locations for months at the time.
Yea, but now this taxi driver will forever know where I live. Thanks, but no thanks.
Presumably it'd be pretty nice if you lost touch with someone.
we call those contactless smart cards
Smart cards contain a considerable embedded system for transactional processing; it's quite different from just transmitting an ID.
[1] https://aruarian.dance/blog/japan-ic-cards/
Makes it utterly useless as a digital signature then.
EMV, NFC, and RFID are all related technologies which may underlie “tap to pay / sign” features.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contactless_payment
RFID: Radio Frequency Identification: passive powered by RF, returns data when powered.
NFC: Near Field Communications, is a protocol for communications, built on RFID, includes polling for readers and protocols for defined crypto and data storage/retrieval.
EMV: Eurocard/Mastercard/Visa standard for the data and crypto operations for an EMV chip, extended from physical by the use of NFC for contactless payments, primarily by replicating the data on the magstripe and adding some additional crypto and dynamic elements.
EMV is one standard for how to use an NFC card, there are others, primarily used for transit.
Yesterday a courier brought a pallet with my new drill press costing over €500. Signature required, but when I asked he told me not to worry, there was no need…
The merchant pays for thousands of deliveries, but you on the receiving end are at best getting a handful.
So the courier is incentivised to offer the best rates to the merchant while completely ignoring the requirements or preferences of the recipient.
Your only recourse is to complain to the shop, who might do something if the volume of complaints is high enough, but most likely they’ll just pass the buck to the courier…
Certainly for an expensive item, the customer may be out their time, but they are going to ask for a replacement or a refund or do a chargeback, the merchant is generally going to have to accede to the request, and the merchant ends up being out money.
So if the merchant decides to trade off security for delivery cost (by choosing a courier with a slack approach to verification), that's their prerogative and they are economically incentivized to make the right decision on that.
For delivery problems that don't result in a chargeback (the courier leaves it somewhere inconvenient, or claims you weren't in, etc, but it eventually gets to you) that's the situation where it becomes your problem and the merchant isn't much empowered or incentivized to fix it.
Here in Japan there's typically this little circle where you're supposed to stamp you hanko.. but I just sign my name, with a pen, whether the parcel is for me or for my wife. But at least the delivery guy will have me read the form to verify that it's actually for someone in the household.
Not that I would prefer the hanko.. that idiocy just have to go. I can see no safety in the system, it's just a made-up stamp after all. It has no place in a modern world. And it's on the way out, as far as I understand, but I still hear stories about people forgetting the hanko when they go to the bank, and despite having passports and other IDs they're denied service. And you need to bring that thing everywhere for contracts and the like.. and everything has to be done by physical presence.
https://www.ups.com/us/en/track/change-delivery
https://www.fedex.com/en-us/shipping/hold-at-location.html
If your drill press had been delivered to the wrong person, and the sender had chosen insured delivery (which automatically requires a signature), it would be easy to prove that the signature on file with the transporter did not match the actual signature of the recipient (i.e. you) (unless a fraudster forged your signature, that is).
Mind you, from what I understand, the seller is legally responsible up to the point of delivery in the Netherlands*. Therefore, even if your drill press hadn’t been sent with required signature, the shop would still be responsible in case it had been lost (but then the loss would come out of their own pocket, rather than that of the transporter).
Disclaimer: not a lawyer.
* Assuming you’re from the Netherlands due to your user name.
Indeed, if the pallet was delivered to the wrong address and someone just took it, the burden of proof would lie with the selling party. Of course, a reputable transporter will make sure the address is right (plus, people generally don't act as if they were indeed expecting a pallet delivered by lorry).
Yes, but this actually doesn’t matter.
The only time when the signature on file is actually relevant is when the sender lodges a claim for non-delivery. In that case, it could be compared to your actual signature.
Conversely, if no claim is lodged, the package must have been successfully delivered.
Disclaimer: not a lawyer.
That seems like the perfect system because if you assume Amazon isn't trying to steal from you, the system can prove if the parcel was properly delivered or not.
It's an official ID card you're required to update by law every time you move, and they plan to link the address of both systems. Meaning every time you update you address on your ID it will automatically propagate everywhere.
In Japan the MyNumber system is live since a few years and a single card can already be used:
* As driving license
* As a unified heath insurance card
* As a unified way to retrieve prescribed medications, lab results, vaccinations..
* For doing the taxes and receive pension
* As a foreigner residence card (very soon)
* For digital signing of official papers (as a way to replace the Hanko stamp culture, it's working but not yet widely used)
The digital ministry is also expected to unveil an Apple Wallet integration in a few months to avoid having to carry the card.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_theorem_of_softwar...
Alphanumeric codes are mathematically speaking a completely identical set to base 36 numerics
So they've added an MMU (Mail Management Unit).
The next step would be to refuse to route mail other than to a digital address.
Next step, allow users to have short-lived, throwaway digital addresses which are nest to worthless to harvesters, who have mere weeks to act on them.
The post office should conceal the real addresses, not allowing outsiders access to the database. You shouldn't have to tell someone where you live in order to receive something by mail from them.
> Under the system, users can input these seven-digit codes on online shopping websites, and their addresses will automatically appear on the sites.
So the sites still use the physical address. In fact, the postal service itself doesn't even use the code.
The purpose is to simplify form input on websites, which was already solved by browser autocomplete.
Feel free to have any addressing system you like; it need not be number, street, city, state/province like many western countries. But it should at least make some logical sense.
As a sister post said, the build order is that logical reason.
The time when they were built is the reason
You buy something from somebody, they get a QR code and use that to get a delivery label. Delivery label doesn't have your address on it, only the delivery company knows where it's going.
Obviously it doesn't prevent something like "there's an airtag in the box" but it does prevent you having to tell the person selling you a used copy of Resident Evil 5 where you live.
Now we can have masked access-list, and block lists.
The actual feature doesn't seem mind-blowingly useful to me, in the era where most of my form fields get populated for me automatically anyway. Doesn't seem bad, just I don't see it being a life changing thing. I'd hope it does not work as a way for the Post to learn a little bit about my shopping habits. Probably not. Who knows.
But what I think is cool is a ten-year commitment to any computer-based system, which is sadly rare to see these days.
So memorizing a 7-digit code to enter address information without error seems like a useful feature to me (though admittedly not mind-blowingly so).
It could also be useful in other contexts such as sharing an address with someone verbally, over LINE, manually entering an address into a GPS, etc. Assuming the system actually catches on and the codes are universally supported in map apps.
It can be even more granular than that. ZIP+4+2 is a thing.
[1] https://www.smarty.com/articles/zip-4-code
7 characters made up of letters and numbers let you find a specific building.
You can update your code to point to a new address when you move:
> Their digital addresses will not change even if their physical addresses change. Their new addresses will be linked to the codes if they submit notices of address changes.
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This doesn't sound good for privacy or security, though it's a nice convenience function.
> Under the system, users can input these seven-digit codes on online shopping websites, and their addresses will automatically appear on the sites.
1. The site shouldn’t get your address at all. They print the code on the package, mail it to Japan Post, and Japan Post takes care of delivering it to you.
2. You should be able to generate new codes arbitrarily.
i.e. A service like Apple’s Hide My Email, but for physical mail.
This will also require to alter the package label on the last mile because requiring the courier to scan every package or letter before they could even see an apartment number will slow things down to a crawl.
My guess is that's already planned, but they don't put all details in the first press release.
[1]: https://lp.da.pf.japanpost.jp/#importantnotes
I don’t see any particular upside at this point. It suffers from "weak enumeration" and possibly make stalking much easier.
(( sure govt will try to limit queries but there are many ways around it. Govt will spend millions over the next few years playing cat and mouse while ))
The missing street address used to be a big problem. The postal delivery people had (and still have, of course) a way to look up your address - which is really just the property number, in the area where I live) and find it on a map. Normal people couldn't. But now we can enter the property number into e.g. google maps, and it'll find the actual location. Which, of course, means that you need to be online with your digital device. Which I wouldn't be until recently (I've got this pocket wifi now), unless I was in a wifi area.
In my home country I can easily find any location just by someone telling me the street name and number. No map needed, no online presence.. my home address has a property id, known by the city, and a street address, for everybody else. Japan is like that, just that the street address is missing..
https://lp.da.pf.japanpost.jp/svg/digitaladdress_img_01_pc.s...
https://lp.da.pf.japanpost.jp/
For example, a duplex where the front door of each unit is adjacent to the other. Even at the 4m resolution, that means both units front doors (and thus street addresses) can fall into one single pluscode.
If you live in a high rise apartment, a plus code does not identify you precisely. Sadly to do this you need some knowledge of a structure's internals. It makes sense it's being done on the national level in Japan.
Debatable considering it's based on lat/lon only.
> used for deliveries in many countries
Source? Their own website only lists 3 use cases, and only one is used for mail delivery, and even that is in Kolkata only.
When I sign in to Informed Delivery, every month or so the USPS sends a postcard advertising their podcast (“Mailin’ It!”)
https://usps-mailin-it.simplecast.com/
This is a virtual postcard, so while I can read it in my email or on usps.com, I won’t necessarily find a paper copy delivered.
It is my understanding that commercial mailings can also use this mechanism. I receive some marketing as original JPEG quality, rather than being scanned in grayscale.
But this thing sounds like a Rube Goldberg machine. A much simpler solution is to have the subscriber log into their account and change their address
The German Post already has "digital stamps", you buy them online and then you just have to write a couple of symbols on the envelope.
If you combined these together you would get a letter which can be fully paid for and addressed by writing a couple of symbols on it, only meaningful to the computer system. In a way this is making the physical world quite digital.
The usual 5 digit ZIP code routes to your Post Office. The longer ZIP+4 code routes more detailed locations: a city block, an apartment building. The even longer ZIP+6 code goes to something called delivery point, which to my understanding is basically a single mailbox. The ZIP+6 code is in fact embedded in the bar code sprayed onto the mail piece.