Great discussion. In my opinion, the real takeaway isn’t about notebooks vs. digital tools, it’s about what shifts your mental gears. Every time we switch modes, it forces our brain to pay attention differently. That fresh context can boost focus, creativity, even recall.
For example, I recently stopped coding all the time and picked up a new hobby at night, writing. That simple change gave my brain a reset and actually improved the performance during the day. Same goes for planning: switching from digital to pen and paper breaks the routine and makes your brain engage differently. It’s less about the tool and more about how the change wakes you up.
cleak · 22h ago
The book Smarter Faster Better introduced me to the concept of disfluency - the idea that extra friction such as awkward fonts, new environments, different tools, etc will pull you out of autopilot mode and force you to think in new ways. I haven’t seen references to it elsewhere, but it’s changed how I approach problems and learning the last 9 years. Switching to a notebook is one great way I use to trigger this as well.
gjadi · 22h ago
Interesting. I noticed the same and sometimes I change my emacs theme just to get a fresh perspective. Sometimes I also disable syntax highlighting when typing so I won't get distracted.
diggan · 20h ago
> Sometimes I also disable syntax highlighting when typing
Was waiting for someone to comment this. It's a somewhat known strategy if you have to read through a bunch of boring code you don't want to work with, and find hard to focus with, to turn off the syntax highlight and somehow the brain stops glossing over/skimming the code and starts to pay more attention.
I found it led to marginal difference at best, as with most strategies. It does work well initially though, as I guess the brain stops being able to use colors it's used to for grouping stuff together and similar.
WCSTombs · 17h ago
Along similar lines, sometimes I print out code on paper and make notes with a pen, sitting far away from my computer. Of course there's no, or very minimal, syntax highlighting then.
thewebguyd · 17h ago
A bit extreme on my end, but I've got the spare hardware for it - when I get into a rut I change operating systems, so I'm bouncing back and forth between macOS and Windows or Linux.
I'm adept at using both but the change adds just enough friction and visual differences to spark creativity, or a little productivity boost.
fuzztester · 2h ago
I have syntax set to off in my .vimrc file, to have no syntax highlighting at all, and it's off all the time, not just while typing, i.e., even while moving through or changing text (code), or even when just reading it.
I find it much better that way.
brailsafe · 11h ago
This is a somewhat wasteful one, but when I really really can't focus or make progress on untangling an issue or if I just want to fully understand a file, I will print out my code on paper and go through it with a red pen line by line. It's rare, but it works just like editing an essay. I notice things I wouldn't otherwise.
fuzztester · 2h ago
That used to be common some years ago, with or without a red pen or any pen.
ednite · 22h ago
Thanks for sharing. I just added Smarter Faster Better to my reading list, along with Annie Murphy Paul’s The Extended Mind.
Both seem to explore how breaking out of autopilot can unlock better thinking, which is exactly what I’ve been noticing in my own routines.
Interesting. For me it's the opposite, e.g. just changing keyboard layouts between pc and mac breaks my brain hard, and I feel useless.
jahsome · 16h ago
I experience similar and I think of discomfort tolerance like a muscle. The more I (am forced to) use it, the less strain I experience when using it.
I am naturally prone to optimizing friction away--autistic engineer--but have come to realize regularly putting myself in uncomfortable positions professionally and personally works for me as a form of exposure therapy.
Nowadays, in the event I'm thrust into such an unfamiliar situation against my will, I'm still functional.
An enormously valuable knock on effect was coming to the realization the things I enjoy most in life are those which have been a surprise, and I would have simply avoided weren't I being intentional in pushing my own boundaries.
tonyedgecombe · 5h ago
When I was dual booting my Mac between macOS and Windows I used to swap the keyboard and mouse at the same time. I found it helped with handling the differences between the two operating systems.
hinkley · 20h ago
I wonder how many developers today were forced to take an introductory drafting class. I know a lot of us played with Lego. The problem of describing a 3 dimensional object in two dimensions requires extra projections to describe the thing. A 3d object in 2 dimensions takes three drawings to mostly describe. If the object is more complex than three dimensions, you need to look at it from a lot more angles.
ednite · 19h ago
Wow, decades in this field and it finally took your comment to connect my childhood LEGO obsession with coding. Simple enough, but it never actually crossed my mind. The funny thing is, I’ve always linked my love for storytelling to LEGO building, but not coding. Thanks for the insight, that just snapped into place.
hinkley · 18h ago
Did I love Lego because I was like this, or am I like this because I loved Lego?
That'll bake your noodle for a good long while :)
fuzztester · 2h ago
If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there, did make a sound?
- Zen koan I read a while ago, might have got the wording a bit wrong, but a fun one.
Just googled, and it is Wikipedia too, but "koan" is only in the See also section:
With respect to Lego and coding, now I'm thinking of the game Infinifactory, which has the nice property of yielding puzzle-answers where you can go: "Hey, I built that! Look at it operate!"
wglb · 13h ago
I had a drafting class as a freshman in engineering school. The professor would come to class with a piece of chalk and a string and proceed to us only these tools to construct complex three dimensional shapes, and show how to rotate them to give a different view.
One small example of a problem we were required to learn was that of a pipe running through a space at some angle and determine if it intersected something important.
atrettel · 22h ago
This is one of the reasons that I actually take notes in three different media: paper notebooks, an old-school digital voice recorder, and in text files. Different media have different advantages and disadvantages and represent different ideas for more readily.
I have used the voice recorder less over the years but I find it optimal when time is limited and I have to move onto something else. Part of using a voice recorder as a medium is listening closely afterwards and writing down what I said in a different manner (either in a more permanent paper notebook or digitally in a text file). And yes, each iteration transforms the idea at least somewhat. It gives you the chance to see the idea in a different way.
fuzztester · 2h ago
What recorder make and model do you use?
rramadass · 7h ago
This is what i do too.
Paper Notebooks + old-school Digital Voice Recorder (get one which takes replaceable batteries) are a great combo to train oneself to use regularly and consistently for everything.
fuzztester · 2h ago
What recorder make and model do you use?
stronglikedan · 18h ago
I read a study a while back that said context switching costs ~15 minutes on average. I don't know how true it is, but my bosses have always believed it and tried to respect it.
bandoti · 22h ago
Something I noticed for myself—doing a live webinar series over a couple days and taking notes with pen/paper in realtime—I really struggled to keep up at first, but over a few days I started to notice my ability to do a listen-and-write context shift improved and it felt like I was able to retain auditory information better.
kapitar · 12h ago
This is why (apart from being Irish) I drink a fair bit of tea throughout the day.
Going to the kitchen, boiling water and letting it brew, gets me away from my desk and gives me an opportunity to start thinking out loud while I wait.
Sometimes just getting up out of my chair will shake loose some tough problem and the answer will be clear.
Alas, even after all these years, I occasionally grind away on things rather than remembering this.
nemofoo · 18h ago
This is a great insight. I have no data to back it up by my experience is very similar
agarren · 21h ago
Out of curiosity, what kind of writing? Journaling and getting your thoughts out, or fiction, something else?
ednite · 20h ago
Honestly, I’m kind of all over the place with my writing right now, but I can’t stop. It’s one of the reasons I finally joined HN. I’ve been a long-time reader here but recently decided to start sharing my 2-cents here and there.
I started a blog to get my thoughts out and explore whatever sparked my curiosity. It’s been a creative blast, and I’m still figuring it out as I go.
I do journal, though it’s more of a quick log, tracking time and daily developments. My deeper writing is more immersed. Lately, I’ve been spending a few hours most nights working on a self-improvement book, which I’ve been enjoying writing.
One unexpected benefit I can’t emphasize enough is how much writing has helped me stay sharp and more focused in my day job. It’s like a reset button for the brain. If you’re feeling stuck or low on motivation, I really recommend trying something completely different in your routine, especially something outside your comfort zone, like switching from digital to analog. Thanks for asking!
sky2224 · 1d ago
Some of the most intelligent people I've ever met in math, physics, and computer science don't even use a notebook. They use printer paper and pen. When they're done, they throw the paper away.
I have seldom found personal notes from far in the past to be useful. If there's something worth noting down, then it goes into documentation, so others can stumble upon whatever quirk I've come across in the future. If there's something I really want to remember, I create flashcards and do spaced repetition until I've learned the thing. But that's just me, and I imagine my way doesn't work for a lot of people.
I think people are taking this post a little too personally and literally. This is a writer's piece. The title is meant to share a philosophy that this developer subscribes to. Nothing about it is declaring that others must subscribe to it as well.
If a pen and notebook don't work for you, then don't use it.
safety1st · 1d ago
The sciencey side of this is that writing stuff down boosts memory, retention and learning, even if you immediately throw away what you wrote.
Writing by hand also has a greater effect than typing because it engages more of the senses and more of the brain, in particular the motor cortex.
I keep telling myself that this would all make a great excuse to get a Moleskine, but handwriting just isn't a part of my workflow. Typing copious amounts of stuff into text buffers and then transforming it is, especially now that we have LLMs. If my brain is totally non-functional I simply start typing barely intelligible phrases into a text editor until it wakes up, then I go back and edit/refactor/clean up, and frequently something comes out of this that looks like a vague outline of an email or piece of code I need to write that day. Or at least a todo list. Then we're off to the races doing actual work. Most of the initial doodling is destroyed.
Handwriting does aid retention though.
bee_rider · 22h ago
Unscientifically I always assumed that the pencil-and-paper was not really the important part, just the ritual of memorization that modern people have from however many years of schooling. I assumed the important part was the ritual.
I guess we have a large enough population of people who’ve always taken notes on their computers that a natural experiment could have occurred. But I wonder about the crosstabs—computers can be very distracting so I wonder if people who prefer them to notebooks will also just tend to be more distracted.
thfuran · 14h ago
My handwriting was terrible all throughout school, and then I avoided it pretty much entirely for a decade or two. I'm not sure what's left can really be called handwriting. I guess maybe it still works to help recall, but it's barely useful as reference.
tailspin2019 · 4h ago
FWIW My handwriting (and the experience of writing) improved quite a bit when I switched to fountain pens. I always used to find writing a bit uncomfortable physically, and difficult mentally (due to ADHD) but fountain pens improved the experience somewhat.
You don’t need so much force to be applied to the pen compared to other writing instruments and the more comfortable writing experience helped my ADHD brain better tolerate it to.
perrygeo · 19h ago
For me it's critical that the note capture mechanism be unstructured and entirely free form. Typing notes on a keyboard just doesn't work when much of the things I need to keep note of are non-linear, non-verbal, relational, or spatial. Or just facts that I need to keep in temp memory.
I periodically review the notes and summarize anything worth keeping into the appropriate system of record (calendar, tickets, wiki, spaced repetition, doesn't matter). Like you, I find that very little is actually worth keeping. And that's fine; the paper notes are not a system of record but more of an extension of working memory.
freetonik · 1d ago
>I have seldom found personal notes from far in the past to be useful
Same, but I still keep them (both notebooks and random pieces of paper). I find it extremely satisfying to just look into them after many years. It's like looking at random old photos, photos of my thinking process from the past.
cheema33 · 1d ago
This is how my brain works. I do have a notebook. My stream of thoughts for one day go one one page for that day. I turn the page the next day and I almost never look back. There may be some value in looking back. But, I have not been able to make myself do it.
MSFT_Edging · 21h ago
Most of the contents of my notebook are never looked at again, just lists of thoughts, order of events, etc.
Occasionally i'll write something down that I know I'll forget for later reference and put a small post-it sticking out for easy access.
atrettel · 22h ago
I've used printer paper myself in different jobs in science. I personally don't like it but I have done it when it was the only paper available. Budgets in scientific organizations are often very tight, so often nothing else is provided, and many times you do not have the direct authority to order anything yourself.
My point is that I'd view this behavior more as a consequence of the circumstances many scientists find themselves in rather than a conscious choice, though I do admit that some people may like it more than I do.
exe34 · 18h ago
What kind of paper do you prefer?
atrettel · 17h ago
I don't have an exact preference on the kind and weight of the paper, but I do prefer notebooks with firmly bound and numbered pages like old-school laboratory notebooks [1]. My problem is that I often do long derivations or work that can span dozens of pages with diagrams, etc. If I use loose leaf paper like printer paper, I often lose track of pages or their order. I tend to label my pages extensively when I have to use printer paper. I also use binder clips instead of paper clips since they are much more secure. That system works for me but other people might not like it.
Notebooks are cool, but I prefer printer paper for short term notes. I tend to staple them together if there's more than a few pages. If I need to remember something for longer than the few weeks before I lose the sheets, I take a picture with my phone.
sixtyj · 1d ago
I'm sure it's very personal :) Because everyone has their own reality, workflow and reading a piece either resonates or dissonates with you (personally).
I personally find paper&pen both comforting and unsettling at the same time. Soothing because writing really helps sort out thoughts etc. Mindflow is different from flow "on the computer/phone/tablet".
On the other hand, it's distracting because without an index system (I start each notebook with two blank pages trying to index the contents; every other page has a number) it's easy to get lost.
But today's kids, being digital natives, may take a different approach. Paper&pen may present anxiety for them. So it very much depends on the family we grew up in.
sph · 1d ago
Don’t try to transform a paper notebook into a database. All those organizational tools are elaborate forms of procrastination.
What I do is write notes in the best format for paper: an append-only log with a date on top. Whether digitally or on paper, I rarely if at all need to consult notes from a long time ago, so the log is good enough for most use cases. In fact, as I mentioned elsewhere, writing by hand is not to store data, it’s a way to effectively digest information and incorporate it into your brain. You’ll get a lot of benefit of writing something and immediately throwing it away, so who cares about indexing it for later.
reaperducer · 17h ago
On the other hand, it's distracting because without an index system (I start each notebook with two blank pages trying to index the contents; every other page has a number) it's easy to get lost.
I use a smart pen that writes in a notebook, but also stores everything I write in memory. Every month or so I export the content of the pen to my computer via Bluetooth as OCRed PDFs. This is because my boss often asks me to account for time I spend doing different things, and I can quickly search the PDFs.
sky2224 · 8h ago
how reliable are those smart pens actually? I've always been concerned that you'll end up losing out on crucial or really finely drawn stuff.
graboid · 15h ago
That sounds very intriguing, do you mind sharing the smart pen model?
vin047 · 4h ago
Not the GP, but I got a Rocketbook from my most recent workplace when I joined. Not quite a smart pen, more like smart paper - each page is grid paper with a QR code at the bottom that you scan with their app to digitise.
tmaly · 17h ago
I use to just lose my notes. But I have been using tech to transcribe them and put the text into my Obsidian vault.
I am thinking about trying to do something with this like scanning for connections between notes or adding some tags to make ideas easier to find.
hxtk · 12h ago
> I use to just lose my notes.
I used to do this very intentionally. In the past, I've found that taking notes is very valuable for me, but having notes seldom is.
When I was in school, I would write all my notes on a dry erase board and simply erase it when I had filled up the page. That was when I was studying things that were already known, though, so it was viable to, for reference material, just become skilled at referencing pre-existing reference material.
Now that I'm a professional and often working on something new or combining things in a new way, it's more often useful to me to generate new reference content for myself and especially for a different person who picks up the task on my day off.
esperent · 12h ago
Reminds me of the old joke: all you need to be a philosopher is pen and paper. All you need to be a mathematician is pen, paper, and a trash bin.
hk1337 · 23h ago
> They use printer paper and pen. When they're done, they throw the paper away.
That's the most important takeaway from using pen(cil) and paper. If you can make it reusable for you great but the most important thing is physically writing it down.
I rarely, if ever, keep anything I have written down in the notebook. Eventually, I rip it out and shred it.
foobarian · 21h ago
I used to use fancy watermarked paper just because it was fun, but then I got a job at a place with supply closets stocked with infinite printer paper, and, best of all - 11x17 printer paper! I got a 11x17 clipboard to go with it and been using that ever since.
kamaal · 5h ago
>>Some of the most intelligent people I've ever met in math, physics, and computer science don't even use a notebook. They use printer paper and pen. When they're done, they throw the paper away.
Donald Knuth works that way. In fact, most such people tend to do most of their thinking on paper, making small changes to the problem state, verifying if it sticks, and is going where they want it going. Rollback, make a different change to the same thing, or same change to different things. This goes on over hundreds of pages.
One of the advanced user level performers don't tend to view stationary(especially paper) as something that must be rationed or spent with limits.
XorNot · 17h ago
Reminds me of the sheer optimism which taking a picture of a whiteboard represents...I have not once, ever, needed or wanted to look back at one.
js4ever · 1d ago
Calling a notebook the “most important tool” for a dev is pure romanticism. Useful for some, sure, but let's not pretend it outweighs a debugger, version control, or CI. This isn't craftsmanship cosplay, it's software engineering.
Hamatti · 1d ago
OP here. Last time my blog caught attention in HN, I was told I'm "living in a fantasy" and this time it's "pure romanticism".
The tools you shared are of course important and I enjoy having them a lot. Wouldn't want to work as a developer without version control or debuggers, for sure. Those are tools that if I lost them, it surely would slow me down and be annoying.
I do truly consider notebook more important to me than those. Writing and running code is the tool to get things done but software development to me is more importantly building something valuable that solves problems or makes life easier. And to that, code is often somewhat trivial implementation detail — it's much more important to figure out what to build and how.
Some people are good at thinking when they are in a code editor or other digital tools. My brain goes into detail implementation mode and it's hard for me to see the big picture when I'm writing in code editor and building functionality.
For me, it's crucial part of my job to take my notebook and use it as a tool for thinking before (and during!) coding. While losing access to the other tools would definitely slow me down, not being able to think through writing with pen and paper would cripple my thinking, my problem solving ability, my creativity and thus cause me writing bad software.
brettgriffin · 21h ago
> Those are tools that if I lost them, it surely would slow me down and be annoying.
Yes, but the post above is pointing out that you would be significantly slower without an IDE, compiler or debugger than you would be without a pen/paper.
In fact, I don't think you would be a professional programmer if you didn't have them.
Saying you like a notebook and pen while designing and writing software is very different than saying a notebook and pen are more important than an IDE, compiler, or debugger.
tomjakubowski · 19h ago
> significantly slower without an IDE, compiler or debugger … In fact, I don't think you would be a professional programmer if you didn't have them.
This is a strange take. Programmers were around before any of those tools were. And today, even many professional programmers do their work without using any of them: they use text editors, they write interpreted languages, and they use printf()-debugging or other techniques.
brettgriffin · 17h ago
They are examples, the exactness is not what is important here. Choosing something that is not connected to electricity, an OS, or the internet to be a software developer's _most important_ tool is, in fact, the strange position here.
reaperducer · 17h ago
Choosing something that is not connected to electricity, an OS, or the internet to be a software developer's _most important_ tool is, in fact, the strange position here.
Like a human brain? I'd say that is the programmer's most important tool, and it is not connected to electricity, an OS, or the internet.
brettgriffin · 15h ago
As much as I hate that answer I think it is better than a pen and and a notebook.
DoingIsLearning · 19h ago
> you would be significantly slower without an IDE, compiler or debugger than you would be without a pen/paper.
Slower at creating what? With just great tooling there is still a real risk of creating the wrong thing just very fast.
OP's point is that it is a thinking tool more so than a creating tool.
testing22321 · 19h ago
> Last time my blog caught attention in HN, I was told I'm "living in a fantasy" and this time it's "pure romanticism".
When people criticize like that, you know you’re doing something right.
“Only people doing less than you will criticize “
Keep it up!
noosphr · 22h ago
What you're talking about is software machining, not software engineering.
The difference between the blue collar machinist and the white collar engineer is exactly this view of the machines they use.
For an engineer a machine - be in a slide rule, calculator or super computer - is just a tool. You're not doing engineering because you're using the tool. You're doing engineering because you're thinking and the tool helps you think a bit faster.
For a machinist the machine is the job. You can't make widgets if you don't have a machine to make them on. Thinking about widgets is pointless because they don't get made by thinking.
mediaman · 20h ago
That’s funny, because if you go into any machine shop you’ll find machinists writing things down in notebooks (and probably cursing engineers who never set foot in the shop).
This feels like saying "when building a house, obviously a hammer is more important than the blueprints. This isn't art class, it's construction"
growthwtf · 23h ago
And funny enough, saying that to a group of tradespeople and GCs would elicit essentially the same discussion as this is!
angrysaki · 22h ago
Wouldn't it be:
"when building a house, obviously a hammer is more important than the _paper_ blueprints. This isn't art class, it's construction".
(when digital notes/digital blueprints are an available option)
yokoprime · 15h ago
yes! my thoughts exacly. its the arrogance of a junior engineer
mosselman · 1d ago
Thanks for pointing this out. In the same vein there are so many posts about productivity systems where people put endless amount of time into crafting their gtd notebooks with tabs and lists, etc. All that time spent to be productive instead of actually being productive. Or people describing their ideal Obsidian work flows instead of actually noting anything useful down in it. People writing about how they built their own blogging engine because their particular way of blogging is so unique that they had to hand-roll something. All that time spent on building a blog rather than blogging. (I've been there too).
I love "This isn't craftsmanship cosplay, it's software engineering.". I will definitely steal this, let me put it in my notebook.
martindbp · 1d ago
You see this everywhere. In sports its the people who spend most of their time worrying about their equipment instead of just playing the game. I was there with learning Chinese as well, spent way more time thinking about tools than actually learning the language.
verzali · 22h ago
The people wearing the shiny new running shoes at the start of the race rarely finish anywhere close to the front.
blippage · 1d ago
As some wag on Reddit put it, "Digital Note Taking Systems: Cutting and pasting your life away, one note at a time."
xtiansimon · 1d ago
> “craftsmanship cosplay”
Nice slap down.
Aaaa. I’d like to see stats over the comments—if management role, job history, age, income, education—and I’d expect opinions would be revealed as archetypical. In other words, it says more about the speaker than it says about successful software development.
Clearly the OP is talking about what works for them mentally—focus, creativity.
It’s a mistake for anyone to read a post like this and think of it (and the criticism) as prescriptive. Emulating any of the patterns would have the same result of cargo cult behavior.
onion2k · 1d ago
The literal argument here is fine - using a notebook is antiquated and we have better tools.
But the sentiment holds true. When you're building software designing good code is the most fundamentally important aspect of your job. All the tools you mention are things that enable you to delivery that code, but if the design of the code itself is wrong then they mean very little. The process of designing code feels like a lost art these days; developers are far too happy to throw crap at a wall until enough of it sticks to pass the acceptance criteria. Going back to actually working out the logic and flow of the code (on paper, in a diagramming app, whatever) is missing for a vast amount of the dev community.
If people were happy to work through the logic of a feature before hitting their IDE and debugging the first thing they code up, maybe apps would be a bit less buggy.
MonkeyClub · 1d ago
> using a notebook is antiquated and we have better tools
Although I would agree that we have more modern tools, I'm not sure they're better along every dimension: pen and paper is better for memory retention than typing. Also, while YMMV, oen and paper works wonders for brainstorming for me.
Though admittedly search is easier with digital tools.
directevolve · 22h ago
For fast, physically intuitive, flow-of-thought expression, there’s nothing like pen and paper, for me.
I throw away almost all my handwritten notes, because of the downsides: illegibility, unsearchability, physical bulk.
But the qualitative difference of thinking or reading +/- handwriting is huge. I don’t get caught up in editing. I can draw diagrams easily. It slows me down, makes me dwell on an idea while I’m writing it, and thereby physically calibrates my thought process.
Hamatti · 6h ago
> using a notebook is antiquated and we have better tools.
So far, I haven't found tools that beat pen and paper as tools for thinking _for me_.
I still do write a lot of digital notes too but I find that the flexibility of pen and paper — not to mention never having to worry about running out of battery compared to tablets or similar — crucial benefit.
Digital tools might result in better outputs but that's not what my notes are for. I prioritise minimising the friction that's between my thoughts and getting them on paper. On digital, I'm either limited by structure (f.ex. a Markdown file is limited by text being forced into lines) or having to change between tools when I want to jot down something in different format (text, circles, rectangles, arrows, whatever). It's a very small amount of work to switch between them but it cuts my thought because I need to think about the tools.
Pen and paper is the most direct connection my brain I've found.
rubicon33 · 23h ago
This 100%. I was going to write something similar. In my entire 15 years in software engineering, the amount of times I've reached for a notebook pales in comparison to the amount of times I've relied on version control or a debugger.
Has a notebook or a whiteboard been handy at times? Of course. But the rubber meets the road behind the IDE, and the tooling there is the story of the day.
Jtsummers · 23h ago
> the amount of times I've reached for a notebook pales in comparison to the amount of times I've relied on version control or a debugger.
In my now ~35 years of programming, I've found reaching for the notebook often saves me from needing to rely on a debugger unless it's code I inherited and didn't write myself. Even then, though, mapping it out on paper and using my pseudocode-shorthand to describe what the program does and what it intends to do is often faster than dealing with a debugger for anything but trivial bugs.
ddaud · 11h ago
This is exactly my thought. Be it pen and paper or digital, writing out what your software needs to do and how it will do it saves an immense amount of time debugging or throwing things at the wall. I’m shocked at some of the responses here; there is a qualitative difference in the development experience when you spend the time designing (I also frequently do this by hand, but it doesn’t have to be) before implementing anything vs. opening an IDE and hammering something out.
I’d go further to say that software development isn’t about writing code, it’s about designing and understanding programs. Code is an implementation detail, the understanding is what is crucial.
acuozzo · 23h ago
> the amount of times I've reached for a notebook pales in comparison
What kind of code do you work on?
I find notebooks useful all the time, but I write in C for embedded systems, so a lot of what I do involves setting up data structures, memory layout, etc.
rubicon33 · 16h ago
I do/done a little bit of everything. Backend Java, mobile ObjC (iOS) and Java (Android). Spent 2 years as a firmware dev on NRF platform so very familiar with spending time on data structures and byte alignment. I’ve also spend 4 years doing TS/JS back in the early Angular days.
Everyone’s different I guess, but for me I’ve never really reached much for a notebook. I just start writing code, refactor as needed, and rely on tooling from debugger/IDE/devtools when and where applicable.
r053bud · 23h ago
I’ve definitely fixed more bugs with pen/paper than a debugger.
paganel · 23h ago
That and taking a shower, doing dishes or taking a walk around the block, in fact I'd say that the ratio of bugs/issues I've solved while away from the computer compared to being in front of the computer is quite high (in favour of the "away from the computer"-fixes, that is).
DawsonBruce · 23h ago
The balance of rest is an important factor that I’ve understood the value of only later in my career. Pausing on a difficult engineering task at the end of the workday in favor of exercise or cooking dinner (or both) gives my mind and body time to reset it needs. Often answers or alternate approaches will materialize mid curl, crunch, or vegetable chop.
aragilar · 1d ago
What about an issue tracker? Or requirements? Design and planning? A debugger doesn't help you design, version control doesn't tell you what you still need to do, and CI doesn't tell you you've implemented the requirements (or even that the requirements you think you have are the actual requirements).
crq-yml · 1d ago
Over generations, we'll get to where the software tools are relatively more important, but as of right now, it is almost a certainty that the quality of the software you write benefits from writing less code and relatively more of it with a paper draft that is based on carefully reading sources and documentation, and not from any other kind of tools investment.
The new stuff is often fast and many jobs need it by way of keeping up with the standard practices and creating a hiring filter, but it's a supplement, not a foundational tool for thought. It can't be all that important because it's constantly shifting.
ironman1478 · 22h ago
It's not romanticism and it's very important for me too. I spend a lot of my time drawing out what I'm trying to do before I actually try to do it. I tend to work on greenfield embedded projects though for context. Coding and debugging is hard to get good at and are obviously important, but you still need to figure what to actually build and those tools won't get you there. For me, I use a pen and paper to actually figure out what I need to do.
godshatter · 16h ago
When trying to figure out what to code or how to solve a problem, pen and paper is too "concrete" for me for some reason. If I'm waiting for inspiration I would rather just go for a walk or pace back and forth or just stare at something (monitor, wall, whatever) and think it through. When I write something down (or especially when I type it into a document) it becomes too set in stone for me, and if I do it too much I get way too "close" to it to see the solution.
Pen and paper is more helpful when I'm trying to see how the solution I came up with fits into the code, at least for me. I can't visualize at all, so even basic things about how data flows will be helpful if I write them down. The more concrete I'm getting, the more I use pen and paper or text documents. Otherwise it's just give myself time to work through the code as I know it, thinking of things and discarding them quickly, and waiting for inspiration to strike.
butterlettuce · 22h ago
Apollo 13 crew was saved by duct tape, yet it’s still rocket science.
austin-cheney · 1d ago
If you need a framework to do the job you were hired to perform then, clearly, that framework is the most important tool. You likely don’t exist professionally without it.
For people with higher confidence, those of us who have been around the block a few times, the article is correct. The supporting tools you mention are beneficial, but they aren’t the most important tool. The most important tool is soft skills and taking notes.
wrp · 1d ago
"Most important tool" depends on what you mean by "important". For TFA, it means the environment where most of the thinking is done. So it's a legitimate claim. If you want to restrict "important" to the most critical link in the development chain, I suppose you would have to choose the compiler.
zwnow · 1d ago
In a few years of my career now I never had to use a debugger or CI. Console debugging is good enough usually. On version control I agree.
xnorswap · 1d ago
The conclusion I draw from this is that some debuggers are so bad it's not delivering value over "print debugging".
But perhaps it's a lack of knowing what a debugger can deliver.
A debugger gives you the ability to immediately dive in and instantly inspect the complete stack trace, all the values on the stack, all the values of local variables, etc. Without restarting the program or calling out specifically what you're going to want to inspect ahead of time.
A debugger will "pause the world" and let you see all the parallel stacks.
A debugger will let you set conditional breakpoints. If you need to debug the conditions for when a variable gets set to a particular value, a conditional breakpoint on the variable set to break when it's set to that particular value makes that a doddle.
A debugger will let you enumerate collections and re-write values on the fly.
A debugger will let you break on exceptions, even ones normally caught and handled.
A debugger can launch and attach itself.
All of that is a massive force-multiplier and time-saver, which print debugging doesn't deliver.
wiz21c · 1d ago
A debugger doesn't show you the evolution of your program over time. A few well placed prints give you that.
I use my debugger often, but sometimes you need to track the value of something over time (say, over 1000 iterations) and a debugger can't show you that.
So prints are still relevant. Debugger are more for "needle-in-haystack" stuff I think.
A debugger that could record the execution over time (and query that execution), that would be great. I know there are some, but are there for python for example ?
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF · 1d ago
> I know there are some
Do you mind providing examples? I’m not sure what I would search to find that and I’m interested in the idea.
A debugger will also allow you to step through library and framework code where you can't usually go and place print statements.
planb · 1d ago
I don't know you or your work. But I know (senior) developers that don't use a debugger and I've often noticed that when fixing a bug, they don't build a full mental model of what really goes wrong and often just fix the symptoms. Think "that shouldn't be null, we need a null check here" instead of "why is this value null? we should check here, but also make sure the caller works correctly."
vacuity · 1d ago
On the other hand, though this is n = 1 and from 2000 (and it is classic Linus):
Linus Torvalds:
> I don't like debuggers. Never have, probably never will. I use gdb all the time, but I tend to use it not as a debugger, but as a disassembler on steroids that you can program.
> I don't think kernel development should be "easy". I do not condone single-stepping through code to find the bug. I do not think that extra visibility into the system is necessarily a good thing.
> Oh. And sure, when things crash and you fsck and you didn't even get a clue about what went wrong, you get frustrated. Tough. There are two kinds of reactions to that: you start being careful, or you start whining about a kernel debugger.
> I happen to believe that not having a kernel debugger forces people to think about their problem on a different level than with a debugger. I think that without a debugger, you don't get into that mindset where you know how it behaves, and then you fix it from there. Without a debugger, you tend to think about problems another way. You want to understand things on a different _level_.
And I agree. At least for me, print debugging goes a long way, and I'm already invested in building mental models about code. I think using a proper debugger has to be the last resort, because nothing else works and it's time to get into the ugly details. Two valuable avenues for producing good code are formal verification (and its ilk, such as specification) and horse sense/common sense, which combine to say that we should have rigorous mental models that impose on our code. That's the primary objective, to me. The use of tools such as debuggers is secondary, and in my experience, largely neutral or harmful. There's the classic caveat of "if your goal is to ship code fast, then this isn't practical", which is fair, but I have some things to say about shucking off that culture.
skydhash · 18h ago
Debugger for me is more about inspection than actual debugging, especially when dealing with a complex systems. It's possible to just use a printf, but the debugger gives more information. It's rare that I need to do stepping. I mostly just want to see the stack trace and the state of the program. One of the nice thing about Common Lisp and Smalltalk is to be able to do this any single point.
johnisgood · 1d ago
You can have that kind of thinking or mental model with and without debuggers though. I do not see how it is relevant to debuggers.
aerhardt · 1d ago
I do not know what you work on, but debugging is indispensable for certain workloads. Print debugging doesn’t come close to setting up a breakpoint and inspecting every single variable in the stack with a good interface. You don’t even have to select what to print and where, anything can be printed anywhere in two clicks. A UI like the debuggers in Jetbrains IDEs provides smart rendering for all types so that for example map or list elements can be collapsed. The entire call stack is neatly organized and searchable too. It saves hours, creates less friction and also greatly enhances exploratory debugging, where you don’t even know where in the call stack your problem might be. I’d feel very hindered and unhappy if I didn’t have access to a good debugger.
zwnow · 1d ago
I dont know, sounds more like a design issue to me, if your app requires this amount of information to get debugged properly.
trueismywork · 1d ago
Really? Just try debugging a Dijkstra like algorithm and then talk about design issues.
coderenegade · 14h ago
My bread and butter at one point was working on various pathfinding and numerical computing problems, and I'm primarily a print statement debugger. The time evolution of the system is usually the most important signal for debugging these types of problems, and is easy to dump.
That's not to say I don't also use debuggers when necessary, I just reserve those for very hairy problems that can't be solved any other way, e.g. stepping into dependencies. Let's not forget that debuggers have their limitations too, e.g. release build GC optimization (or indeed any release-only bug), and any init process where you have to attach the debugger after the startup, fundamentally cannot be debugged using debuggers.
yetihehe · 1d ago
Debuggers are important tool, but not all debugger are good and not all problems require debugger. That's why I wrote a simple tool, which given a list of methods and classes will printf to log every invocation and exit of selected functions (via java reflection and function rewriting). It was much better than a normal debugger at finding actual flow of data in very complex multi-program system, so essentially machinegun-printf saved the day.
karn97 · 1d ago
You seem to have worked on small simple projects thus far then.
guappa · 1d ago
Or on embedded systems
No comments yet
polishdude20 · 1d ago
I was the same until I started working on a Go server. It helps immensely when I want to know the value of objects say when a request is handled and how that flows.
HelloNurse · 1d ago
There are different categories of tools.
You can design a house on paper, but you need e.g. mallets and wheelbarrows to build it; you can design software with "tools for thought", more or less computerized, but you need the automation offered by CI, version control etc. to handle the more concrete aspects properly.
stackedinserter · 23h ago
It means that you don't write anything complex.
paganel · 23h ago
Which is most probably the majority of us, computer programmers.
01HNNWZ0MV43FF · 1d ago
CI is really nice with multiple platforms or multiple people. Solo projects for Linux, I never bother
wglb · 10h ago
Consider that Knuth first wrote TeX in a notebook. So there is that.
coldblues · 1d ago
Finally someone had the guts to say it. I see the same arguments again and again that writing in a notebook makes you remember things better and think more thoroughly, but who exactly was tested here? Were people with an extensive and deeply personal Zettelkasten note taking system added as participants in the studies? What was their note taking process? Most people severely underutilize or even misuse their digital tools. Just take a look at people who use Notion ;)
I iterate faster, have more freedom and information is displayed and manipulated in a more ergonomic way to me on a computer, in such a way that it creates a symbiotic relationship. I severely doubt physical notetaking and brainstorming could ever compare
anonzzzies · 1d ago
> Finally someone had the guts to say it.
? It's the (mostly anonymous) internet and not linkedin. People call these things out all the time?
ptero · 1d ago
Different people learn and work in different ways. To become comfortable with a new complex topic I personally have to work things out, with a pencil and an eraser, on a piece of paper.
And even writing software I often make toss-away paper sketches; they help me see things in a way that make sense to me. Not replacing a computer, but complementing it. I would not push my method on everyone but it works for me. I also think similar techniques are fairly common. People discuss ideas verbally. They take walks to let brain take a different view, etc. My 2c.
reaperducer · 16h ago
I see the same arguments again and again that writing in a notebook makes you remember things better and think more thoroughly, but who exactly was tested here?
Plenty of the research is online for you to answer your own question.
runjake · 22h ago
Think of it this way: The brain outweighs those tools (for now). The notebook is an extension of thought and the brain.
Some of us who grew up in the 1970s and 1980s even used to "program" by handwriting code on paper as kind of a rough draft.
I did this particularly for systems I didn't have at home, like the Apple ][. I'd handwrite programs at home, then take it to school and type it into an Apple ][. This was somewhat common.
epolanski · 1d ago
I would say that planning, analyzing and tracking is by far the most important part of engineering process, software or not.
I'm personally not a fan of pen and paper, I find it to not scale, I often change devices or I'm on the move, so I rely mostly on note apps (mostly Notion).
ioslipstream · 1d ago
As a developer my most important tools are a computer with working keyboard, monitor, and mouse. Everything else is secondary. A notebook and pen falls somewhere below cpu, gpu, hard drive, ram, reliable internet, etc.
I agree with parent comment of notebook and pen being pure romanticism. I mean, heck, I'd rate Obsidian or some other back linking note software as more important than a notebook and pen. A sticky note and pen would be even more important than a notebook and pen.
yokoprime · 15h ago
CI or VCS is worth diddely squat if you dont organise your thoughts
hooverd · 23h ago
I thought engineers frequently used notebooks? I guess if an electrical engineer ever sketched anything in a notebook, they're just pretending.
AnimalMuppet · 1d ago
All right, let me put it this way: As a developer, my most important tool is my brain. The time I spend figuring out what to build and how to build it is more important than just banging out some code.
For at least some people, stepping away from the keyboard may be the best way to do that thinking.
To put it in your own style: This isn't typing class, it's software engineering.
Apocryphon · 1d ago
And yet, you’ll be hard-pressed to be given access to those during computer science exams, unlike a pen and notebook.
(Maybe it’s different in modern college classes now but wasn’t for decades.)
reaperducer · 16h ago
And yet, you’ll be hard-pressed to be given access to those during computer science exams, unlike a pen and notebook.
(Maybe it’s different in modern college classes now but wasn’t for decades.)
/Old enough to have heard, "OK, now put away your slide rules…"
kstenerud · 1d ago
Most comments are focusing on the physical pen and paper aspect of this post, but are missing the underlying principle:
The author uses pen and paper because when they sit down at a computer they end up shifting to "function mode" where they're implementing rather than designing.
That's it.
The important takeaway is to make sure you don't fall into the trap of implementing when you should be designing. How you maintain that balance is up to you.
Hamatti · 1d ago
OP here.
Exactly! So happy to read you managed to pick up the core gist of the story.
It's important to find the tools that work best for YOU.
I partially wanted to write this because I've often felt as an outsider in tech teams where everyone sits at a computer 7.5 hours every day and I'm the one thinking better when I'm away from the screen and keyboard. So I wanted to offer an example to those who are like me and also feel like they might not belong.
noosphr · 22h ago
I used computers for a lot longer than 7.5 hours a day. Doubly so since I got a home desktop with a tablet display and 3 other screens. I find that the reason why productivity in offices is so low is that:
1). The available screen real estate for doing work is tiny.
2). The tools people use have happy paths that force you to work a specific way.
3). Deep thinking is impossible with interruptions.
As an example of a tool which works best on computers, I've finally recreated the literate environment I used at a previous job on my own time and from scratch: https://olive-alayne-28.tiiny.site/
I can now work happily with Emacs in an environment that supports deep thinking about code instead of fighting with it every step of the way.
If you're interested [1] and [3] from that paper are great introductions to literate programming and noweb + emacs + synctex is by far the most pleasant IDE I've ever used.
I also can't rave enough about how well pen tablets work with xournalpp these days. I can take notes on top of multi-thousand page printouts of code bases and rearrange, doodle, remix, and add new pages wherever I feel like. Even five years ago there was no tool that would let you do that without the threat of a major crash is you wrote too fast.
adampwells · 1d ago
I have been writing software for about 20 years (following on from OChem PhD and research for a few years). I am 'senior' and get paid plenty in Oz...
I have aphantasia - I can't visualise/picture things in my mind, so I use pen and paper or whiteboards A LOT!
I create various ERDs, mind maps, sequence diagrams etc. I use a ReMarkable which makes it a bit easier to move stuff around and makes it more effective.
I get that some people might think it is 'pure romanticism', but pen and paper has been crucial for my success.
cheema33 · 1d ago
Most humans cannot visualize too many things in their minds at one time. I think the limit is low on average. We all therefore benefit from pen and paper. But I recognize that some more than others.
alfiedotwtf · 4h ago
Same boat - 20 years experience, in Oz, with aphantasia... I've only realise in the past month that I do poorly on Live Coding interviews because since the interview is on the clock I immediately start coding so I have something to show, but since I can't picture anything in my minds eye I'm literally coding blind - rereading the question over and over hoping the solution will come! So after realising this I've started using an A2 notebook to draw out the problem, work my way through the problem on paper, and finally map out a solution (still on paper)
... then like magic, the code comes naturally (I'm guessing that's how normal people think when programming)!
voilavilla · 18h ago
The bell-curve meme popular on reddit showing both extremes using the same solution, while the "average" cries, is dead on.
OP is on the right path: think before you code.
One of the neat things about being in the last few years of my career (started in 1988) is how the tools change. I'm a senior principal software architect at a large-ish company. And I don't write a single line of code. I write everything in Visio, Word, and PowerPoint (and sometimes PlantUML). As you move up the abstraction ladder the tools become simpler. I define architectures that will deploy into 10-year lifespan applications (think military, medical, and automotive tier-1), and the code that implements it--or even the language used--has absolutely zero impact on the architecture. Mostly C and C++ (went through an Ada period, too), and some of it might even be implemented in Rust over the next few years as it matures into the automotive world, but when you're high enough up, the implementation is irrelevant.
What matters are the building blocks, the apis, and most importantly, the encapsulation because that has an impact on the silicon, security, manufacturing, and test. Stuff that can be drawn and explained in a few slides, and not the code itself. (Of course, my lovely boxes have to be able to withstand upstream discoveries of flaws in the architecture, but that's the fun part!)
sylens · 22h ago
After trying all sorts of note taking tools and apps over the years to try to get myself organized, part of my New Year's Resolution this year was to just buy a stack of To-Do list notepads that had a spot for the date and just let me write stuff down ad-hoc while in meetings or working on stuff. It's amazing how much more productive I've been since doing this.
I don't understand the pen/physical notebook thing. It's slow to write, insanely slow to search what you've written, almost impossible to copy or share.
Writing by hand definitely is better for a squirrel brain like me. And searching is overrated, most note-taking is write-only and tends to accumulate without anyone ever reading it back. So optimize for memory retention so you can later form better mental associations with the material, rather than how searchable on a computer it is. Notes on a PC are inert, what you want is to integrate their contents into your brain so you can actually do something with it.
WalterBright · 1d ago
Write on!
gofreddygo · 1d ago
Funny. I was tolling the virtues of my spiral notebook which is always on my desk to a coworker, whom I was trying to get out of some trouble and i got... silence. That notebook is the difference between said coworker and I. She didn't get it.
That notebook is the fastest most accessible tool to capture my thoughts. I can state concisely what was discussed in a team meeting last october before any notetaking tool boots up. I know kids names, birthdays and favorite movies of almost all my coworkers which I can glance without switching windows while sharing my screen.
the impossibility of such content being legible to anyone else and being shared is a feature I value very highly.
i take it where i want, introspect, take notes. No screen. No distractions. I doodle, draw lines, write jokes, whatever.
Pages on the right are work things. On the left are my ideas. Index on the first page tells me exactly where to turn to for that idea and mockups i had on filling tedious forms.
I know when I'm spinning my wheels. I can see the gaps in my thinking from months ago. I can see patterns in human behavior that I would otherwise have not noticed.
The simplicity is a huge advantage. I stopped looking for anything better. I don't try to promote it
either (except on rare occasions). Saved me hours.
MrGilbert · 1d ago
I think an analog note taking device (woah!) requires more discipline than a digital one. In the digital world, you can always re-arrange your chaos at almost no cost, whereas you are screwed in the analog world. I'm curious: How do you organize your notes? If you mind to share.
gofreddygo · 1d ago
First there's a work notebook and a personal one. both are semi structured, but work one has more structure.
first page is always for index, split vertically and you get roughly 80 entries with about 3-4 words each. one for each page that i number as i go writing through the book. index usually has just pointers to days when i get interesting ideas.
each right page is for 1 week that i label up top. a small margin is dedicated for recurring meetings. using only the right side allows quickly flipping through. rest of the page is for todos and logs.
left pages are for related thoughts, ideas, etc from that week. sometimes overflows but not by much.
For wordy stuff, i use pages from the back of the book. I don't use sentences much. Just few words with lines connecting them.
Thats pretty much it - index, numbered pages and using just the right side per week. It works wonders for how simple it is. You'll find something else that works for you. Don't overthink this. Just start with a structure and let it evolve.
side note - i do use a folder for plain text notes on my work laptop (that i keep open in sublime) for links and text that benefits from copy and paste. i would not care if it all got deleted or leaked out to the world. I also have another folder of interesting bookmarks and articles exported to pdf for reading on a flight on my phone. i have a dozen or so google docs with my thoughts on topics i'm interested in.
MrGilbert · 1d ago
> You'll find something else that works for you. Don't overthink this. Just start with a structure and let it evolve.
I'm currently looking at a stack of lovely "Leuchtturm1917" A5 note books. The way I took notes for the last three years has been chaotic, that's why I was interested in your way of doing them. I think, finding a mode of work and let it grow and iterate over time is the way to go. I see room for improvement with regards to how I structure my notes, so that I can find them again - that's what I'm struggeling with in my analog world. So, thanks for your insights, they are really valuable!
johnisgood · 1d ago
What do you do when you make a mistake? Do you use an eraser instead of backspace? That is my major problem with notebooks.
I type much faster on a keyboard, I can read it even a month from now while I can't do that with my own handwriting, and when I make a mistake, I can quickly and easily correct it.
MrGilbert · 1d ago
> What do you do when you make a mistake? Do you use an eraser instead of backspace?
I my books, I use Tipp-Ex for that. I usually write with a ballpoint pen.
Hamatti · 1d ago
I do almost no organising of my paper notes. The only thing I do is that I add a date to the corner of the first page of when I start making a specific note and I keep index pages where I list page/note titles (or topics, themes, not everything have a title) and a page number.
I often browse my notes even when I'm not looking for anything. I read what I've been thinking previously because that often sparks new ideas and thoughts.
One thing where I find pen and paper superior to digital is that it's easy to write in the margins, draw arrows and annotate. When I got my first iPad and tested out digital notebook tools (with stylus), I was excited about the idea that I can resize and move my existing drawings around.
Then it took me a few days to notice that I don't really ever need that. I don't need my "finished" notes to look tidy or good. I got over the need to have organised and structured notebooks and embraced the chaos.
I guess it's different things for different people. For me, the flexibility of paper is superior to any digital solution because it has the shortest "input lag" or "feedback loop" to my brain. I'm happy to sacrifice other potential benefits for that.
rsclarke · 1d ago
The bullet journal method is a popular way.
specproc · 1d ago
Each to their own.
I wholeheartedly agree with the author. I find it really hard to think deeply at a computer. Too many distractions.
The speed of writing and search isn't a problem for me. With the writing, I wish I could write faster, but deep thinking isn't fast anyway.
Search, well, 99% of what I write is never looked at again. It's all a process of working things out, committing stuff to memory.
Whenever I'm stuck, stepping away from the computer is usually the best way forward.
WalterBright · 1d ago
If you want to get the most out of a physics lecture, leave the laptop at home. Instead, bring a spiral notebook and some colored pens. Write everything down the prof writes on the blackboard.
It's remarkable how much of the lecture you'll remember. And when you read your handwritten notes, you'll remember the lecture that went with it.
2b3a51 · 1d ago
Suggestion: Write on the right hand page and leave the left page blank (that's the back of the page if you fold the pages over).
Then go over the notes later and summarise or add details on those left hand pages. I used to do the colour pen/highlighting then.
Worked for me half a century ago. No data format problems or need for legacy hardware either.
johnisgood · 1d ago
But I am left-handed!
Jokes aside, I often used to take notes only on the left side because of it, and sometimes the right side, except upside down.
guappa · 1d ago
Yeah good luck writing with coloured pens at the speed teachers speak.
WalterBright · 22h ago
I managed it for 4 years in college, with usually 3 hours of lecture per day. Was it work? Sure. One was busy the whole lecture. But the results were clear.
My favorite pens at the time were the Pilot pens. Today I love the Tul pens.
I have long since scanned them all in. I should post them on my website, just for fun.
aragilar · 1d ago
Why are you focusing on what they are saying, rather than what they are writing (there's an important distinction)?
WalterBright · 22h ago
I would copy what they were writing. The professors had 9 blackboards available, and they'd use them all during a 55 minute lecture, and then some. Some would write with their left hand while erasing with the right (!). It was a heluva time for me. Never before or since have I learned so much so fast. Blink and I fell behind.
In retrospect, I sorely wished I had set up a cassette recorder and recorded all the audio. It would be a gold mine today, as all those lectures are lost to time.
On the other hand, I had no money to buy cassette tapes at the time.
tonyedgecombe · 2h ago
I never learnt much in those sort of lectures. Eventually I figured out I needed to study the material before the lecture and use the lecture to cement what I had already learnt or occasionally answer questions that had come up.
aragilar · 2h ago
Sorry, I was replying to guappa suggesting that they were focusing on the wrong thing.
Edd314159 · 1d ago
I also use a notebook and pen constantly as a software engineer - but never when I need any of the properties you just mentioned.
It is absolutely the wrong tool for any long-term information store. Ephemeral think-it-through process notes only. Obsidian for anything that should live longer than the current problem I’m trying to solve.
_thisdot · 1d ago
I used to have a hybrid setup of paper as an offloading tool + Notion as a knowledge management system. However, since moving to Obsidian, I've never felt the need to use paper. Adding a line item in my daily note is much faster and efficient for me
Hamatti · 1d ago
OP here.
> It's slow to write
Only to an extent. I write fast enough with pen and paper that my thinking is the bottleneck — which isn't really that fast. I don't need to write down everything I think so it also acts as a filter and processor of those thoughts.
> insanely slow to search what you've written
Compared to digital notes system, sure. But the way I use my notes, I don't usually need a full-text search to find stuff. I remember what I've been working on, I often browse through my notebooks to revisit ideas and most often these notebook notes are kind of a "working copy" where the search relevance is often just for the feature so it only needs to be fast to search for a few days or weeks.
I also do copy many of my notes down in digital format too when there's something worth capturing for long term storage for the sake of searching for example.
> almost impossible to copy or share
100%. Sharing is not a consideration for me, these are my raw pure thoughts and explorations, they don't often make much sense to other people as-is. Sometimes I may take a photo of a UI sketch or something to share if needed but otherwise when I have something to share, I write it based on my notes rather than sharing my notes as they are.
roryirvine · 21h ago
Searching through a physical notebook does take a few moments, but the upside is all of that context you get to drink in during the search.
I typically get through a couple of B5 pages a day, so homing in on the thing I want to look at is a matter of opening the notebook to roughly the right fortnight and then flicking through up to a dozen pages in either direction. A tenth of a second per page is enough to scan for major events - what projects was I working on at the time? Were there any major interruptions to my flow, or changes in direction?
And then, once I've found the right day, seeing the detail of everything I was doing at the time triggers a flood of memories - I remember all of the conversations, decisions, problems, and ideas that were current at the time of the entry in question.
I've tried a number of digital notetaking systems, but none has been able to give me so much context so quickly as a paper notebook.
kubami · 1d ago
In the context of this post it's not about preserving or sharing the thoughts. Writing, in this case, is a "thinking tool". Forcing yourself to materialise the thoughts as actual, written, text helps form clear ideas.
jes5199 · 1d ago
that’s so alien to me. for me, writing by hand is frustrating to the point of distraction. if I want to think clearly, my best bet is to do it silently, in my head.
serial_dev · 1d ago
That's great if you can do it!
To me, if the problem is too complex, or more likely, if I expect to be distracted by family and chores, "building in my head" is not the best option as it all falls apart and need to build it up from scratch (though admittedly faster than last time).
karn97 · 1d ago
My brain has enough memory
cladopa · 1d ago
I use A4 sheets of paper, pens with different colours and fluorescent markers. Nothing beats that for me (and I have a iPad Pro with stylus) and I use emacs with org mode too.
I use an automatic scanner to store the important papers as documentation. Now you can even send those to gemini or google cloud to digitalise it for cheap.
At any given time I have four sheets of paper over my desk that I can see in parallel, but I could have 8 or 10 for complex problems with areas equivalent to engineering or architectural blueprints.
Having said that, I can draw and paint very well as I was interested since childhood and had formal training. Probably is not for everyone, but it is for me.
raincole · 1d ago
It's a road bump that forces you to slow down. Which is sometimes a good thing, like taking a shower or walk.
serial_dev · 1d ago
I took the pen+notebook idea a bit further, I use pen+paper (a sheet of paper).
To me, none of the qualities you listed matter when it comes to sketching ideas, thinking about problems, staying on track while problem solving. When I'm done with the task, I read through my notes once and throw it out.
WalterBright · 1d ago
I date the handwritten pages and keep them. I've been attacked more than once for copying, the notebook offers acceptable proof of provenance.
It serves the same purpose as the lab notebook does for a researcher.
The notebook doesn't take up significant room. If you still have a space problem, run it through a scanner.
Brajeshwar · 1d ago
I believe that is the beauty. It makes you be intentional, your mind slows down at a pace that does a double write to your brain (helping you remember better). If remembering with your brain is the RAM, then writing it down is the ROM.
draven · 1d ago
I use a notebook. It forces me to slow down. I don´t like to cross/erase blocks of text so I actually think about what I'm about to write before writing it. It helps the same way rubber duck debugging does.
Also: I just like writing.
hk1337 · 23h ago
> slow to write
that's probably the most important thing. it forces you to slow down and think it through and actually absorb it.
Searching what I have written in the past would be useless for me because it wouldn't necessarily make sense. It's more about the physically writing it out.
abid786 · 1d ago
In comparison it’s much faster to draw, infinitely more portable and much less distracting. I use pen and paper for self notes that are throwaway in nature or exploring ideas. For artefacts that are meant to be shared with others I use a computer
Eavolution · 1d ago
I like it when trying to work things out/design things as I can easily scribble down quick drawings to keep myself right. This is much easier with a pencil and paper than trying to do it on a computer to me.
wrp · 1d ago
Division on this topic reminds me of the division between those who prefer light vs heavy development tools. Some enjoy mastering and wielding powerful tools, but others see them as a distraction.
forty · 1d ago
people's brains all work differently and for some of them manually writing help them think better, and apparently your are not in this case. I don't think there is much else to understand.
pif · 1d ago
If you only need to write sentences, what you say makes sense.
If you need to draw approximate diagrams, or formulae, or flows, or trees, or whatever else, instead...
jbs789 · 1d ago
Many studies showing it aids recall more effectively than typing or event writing on a tablet.
tony-allan · 1d ago
All true but I find that a pen and paper and a couple of diagrams help me think and solidify an idea.
Veen · 1d ago
They aren’t optimising for speed, sharing, or searchability. Notes of this type aren’t an inadequate database, but a tool for thinking. Note-takers visualize and symbolise their thinking while they work through a problem. Writing and drawing reduce cognitive load and externalise information so it doesn’t have to be held in memory. Notes also create a useful record of that process so you can see how you got to your solution. Notebooks are just a convenient UI for that process.
_Algernon_ · 1d ago
I mean the obvious example is that you can sketch graphs or figures easily without any additional friction. Very few digital notes allow that.
bananapub · 1d ago
So what? It’s not for any of those things. It’s part of the thinking process, same as having a walk and letting your mind wander or having a shower.
FigurativeVoid · 23h ago
One of the few things that I miss about working in an office is a large whiteboard and standing in front of it with a colleague.
Working on an architecture with a peer and marker really led to some elegant class designs.
noosphr · 23h ago
I have a 24 inch pen display.
The last time I worked as a CTO I bought them for the whole team. Being able to redraw things on a shared digital white board beats having to redraw the same 4 boxes a dozen times because you keep running out of space.
Also saves people taking photos of the white board before erasing.
alfiedotwtf · 4h ago
> I bought them for the whole team
I have to say, that's pretty damn cool! I'm such a fan of diagramming code and systems, so having this for everyone on the team I'm guessing would have done wonders!
I now have a A2 paper notebook (I think it's actually supposed to be used as an artist's sketchbook) permanently next to my keyboard (my mouse sits on it) and I can't imagine living without it now... but a 24" pen display, mindblown!
4k and quite affordable. And it's a real screen the rest of the time.
Like I said the main quality of life improvement has been xournalpp. Development in the last year has taken off and it's one of the most pleasant projects to contribute to.
barrenko · 23h ago
Whiteboard (blackboard etc.) is life.
abletonlive · 20h ago
I use excalidraw for this and think it’s better than whiteboard because
1) it’s prettier and less messy
2) the digital markers are never dry
3) it encourages more edits and changes
I basically start all my technical designs in excalidraw now
FigurativeVoid · 17h ago
Digital whiteboarding tools are close, but I think they miss some of the magic of working in a shared space with an analog too.
I can make more complex drawings in excalidraw than I could on a really drawing surface. I suspect that leads to simpler drawings and thus simpler designs.
unsungNovelty · 1d ago
I have tried both. Going fully digital and fully notebook oriented. The best I have come up with is to have long term notes in a note app but your on going current thought process in a book. Like what you are currently doing or it's process.
This helps with the search and copy issue of going physical. But writing things for your ongoing process / tasks makes you remember things so much better. Sometimes, all I have to do is write. I don't have refer them. But if I have to, I usually have a better sense of how I got to the end result cos I have the journey written down in my notebook. Also being a fountain pen lover helps.
quectophoton · 1d ago
Sorry, that's not allowed.
You must choose one side or the other, and fully commit to it (like everyone else in this comment section). But it's too late now, since you've already tried both sides (fully digital and fully notebook) with an open mind, that means your opinion is automatically invalid and wrong.
Them's the rules.
Brajeshwar · 1d ago
I like writing much better,[1] and after a fair share of Moleskin, Field Notes, and a long streak with Muji, I’m now blown away by Midori. I have already gotten a few, and I’m going to get a lot more. The tactile ‘scratch’ of the fountain pen on the Midori Paper is so soothing, it makes me feel like I’m a poet even when I’m writing down the most mundane idea that I just had. :-)
wow, what a website. got totally immersed in your backstory.
last time i had such fun was with https://meyerweb.com/
jandrewrogers · 20h ago
I use engineering paper and a mechanical pencil extensively for software development work, a habit I picked up in my chemical engineering days.
None of it is saved. I use it to extend my working memory for complex design problems, and for this purpose I find it very effective. The advantage of paper and pencil is that it is naturally and efficiently amenable to non-linear and somewhat arbitrary patterns of access and representation.
Software really struggles at this because computer UIs force everything into coarse linear workflows no matter the presentation, which makes navigating and rewiring a large number of orthogonal dimensions awkward and inefficient on the best days.
neilv · 19h ago
> None of it is saved.
As we're absorbing this idea... I've seen employment contracts for technical people that arguably might consider these handwritten notes to be IP artifacts, which must be preserved and made accessible to the company.
If that's your situation, you could scribble the date, your name, project, etc. in some margin of the piece of paper, and stick it in a pile/folder. To eventually be scanned, and the file put somewhere accessible, and/or the paper technically preserved.
In a startup, you might also want to preserve things like these for nostalgia, even if they have no IP value. One seed startup, I kept a folder of "nostalgia" photos, video clips, screenshots, etc., of early prototypes, people working late, incremental successes, etc., and it was quickly a good thing. It's amazing how well you can progress, and what positive feelings you have some of these things that quickly become nostalgic. Anyone can see the current state of the code in the repo, but here's the pencil sketch on quadrille paper (or a napkin) one evening that became our architecture.
jandrewrogers · 19h ago
At least in my case, it is difficult to overstate how unlike linear “notes” those scribblings actually are. They aren’t remotely consumable outside the context in which they were created. It really is treated like swap space for working memory.
I do go through all the old papers when I discard them but 99% of the time there is no discernible value. The thought process that created them is strongly non-linear, which does not lend itself to naive linear consumption at all later date.
jimlawruk · 1d ago
I have a notebook that I bring on vacations or weekend trips to jot down occasional bouts of inspiration. A few of those pages contain designs of pet projects that may or may not get implemented later. It can be fun to sit on the beach and map out a potential design even if you never end up implementing it.
fallinditch · 14h ago
I highly recommend the Leuchturm 1917 A4 Master notebook with a dotted grid. Beautiful quality and a delight to use, especially with a good fountain pen.
Yes A4 is quite big but has good advantages for inserting loose papers and the A4 real estate is a great size for user interface design.
CommenterPerson · 12h ago
Aside, as a SQL data analyst working with undocumented or poorly documented dbs and business processes .. notes are a lifesaver. Important / obscure details are easily forgotten. I used to use paper but confess to now using OneNote (hate it and hate MS, but it works).
The other place where typed up notes are extremely useful is with business users and meetings that go back and forth ending in confusion. A shared screen with minimal notes that the requester sees (and agrees) works wonders in bringing focus.
bschwindHN · 11h ago
I love notebooks + erasable Frixion pens as an alternative to whiteboards. You can still get multiple colors the ability to erase, but you have a finer pen point for more accuracy and more permanence than a whiteboard (though I know you have to keep these notes away from heat as that's how they erase).
It's especially useful for graphics/visual programming tasks.
bryan2 · 11h ago
I have only had bad experiences trying to write with those pens. I bought a note capturing system that used them and it was just awful.
bschwindHN · 5h ago
Like actual Pilot Frixion pens, or something else? I know there's a hobby around nice pens and the frixion ones probably feel awful compared to those, but as a layperson when it comes to pens they seemed totally fine to work with.
dustbunny · 18h ago
Taking detailed notes in meetings, and keeping a record of what I'm doing/thinking about has allowed me to drastically shorten the "context switching time" between meetings and days. And having those notes is vital every once in a while, ie: X person said Y thing on Z date. Or It took me X days to do this thing, etc... doing this is a great way to be "management material" if that's what you wanna do. Because you are visibly very organized.
I literally just write down everything important in meetings because it keeps me focused and I enjoy the act of hand writing.
And then I keep notes in a giant endless .md file of what my goals are for the day. It's like 10 lines per day max.
agentultra · 22h ago
As I like to say, I do most of my programming before I touch a keyboard.
The single most powerful thing I do is ask questions and write down the answers. When I want to understand a system this is the fundamental step that cannot be skipped. How crucial it is that I understand the system will tell me how formal I need to be in my thinking. If it's a basic web application or a report I need to generate it's a simple, informal note. If we're talking about a critical system that's distributed and requires high-availability with hard limits on processing time and the consequence of getting things wrong is that businesses and people lose money/property? Then I'll bust out the mathematics and model things formally.
I've experimented as well with writing code on paper first. This doesn't work so well with procedural languages without some form of shorthand/formalism. It works much better with statically-typed functional programming languages. When using such languages I mostly need to reason about the types: the implementation is a matter of filling in the holes which can be done when I'm at the keyboard. The more I learn to "think in types," the better this works but I'm not super great at it yet.
Notebooks are where it all begins.
I also use notebooks to journal my work. I use the bullet journal system to keep track of my work. Keeping it on paper forces me to sit in front of it and physically remind myself of my tasks. It helps me stay focused on the day to day activities and not lose track of my longer-term goals. After using one long enough this way it becomes a chronicle of my work. Handy for performance review season. A great deal of programming work comes out of these journals.
Some folks prefer digital tools and that's fine and dandy. I'm just old school and prefer physicality. Paper and pen work on the level my brain works on and gives me a break from screen, keyboard, and constant stream of notifications. Room and freedom to think without interruptions is important and useful.
psyclobe · 13h ago
I find writing really calms my brain and forces me to straighten my thoughts out. Even if I never review the notes it’s a big benefit.
tanin · 14h ago
With this kind of things, it's a personal productivity. You need to experiment and figure out what setting and process works best for you.
Pen and paper are great because it forces you to think and design without going into too much details and being distracted.
I find myself alternating between 2 modals: pen and paper vs. use Sublime Text to just write down some thoughts. Either seems to work well.
roskelld · 16h ago
I find that using ways to step away from code help think things through in ways to overcome roadblocks. One recent trick I've found is rubber duck my issue into ChatGPT, which I used to do in a notepad (either digital or physical), the added advantage of ChatGPT is I can hit Enter once I'm done with my thoughts and get a response, which might have a solution in it.
The D programming language was designed on a spiral notebook.
sa-tre · 1d ago
For me, pen/pencil and paper is for throwaway notes when I need to distil an idea down or slow my thinking to focus on something I can't quite reason about in my head fully. It's more of an unloading mechanism that gives me more space to think than my head allows alone. It's not actually something I use for note taking at all, for this I tend to just use OneNote/Obsidian/Confluence (whatever I need to at the time).
I would like to explore using stuff like Zettlekastan note systems with emacs a bit more for actually holding onto a web of knowledge that I refer to. Though this is a different ends, and so requires a different means.
jwpapi · 18h ago
I see that point but now discussing approaches with AI replaces that most of the time, not because the AI is genius but because me formulating it helps me to think and me getting challenged helps as well (I ask for it)
The input speed on keyboard is just way faster than with pen:/
Sometimes I still use notebook but it becomes less unfortunately.
But my my challenges are just not challenging
spidersouris · 17h ago
> me getting challenged helps as well (I ask for it)
Can you elaborate? Do you have any examples of such interactions with LLMs?
I don't tend to use it extensively, but I find it much easier to work out things, especially graphical things, when I can doodle it on some paper rather than having to type it into notepad. For example, yesterday I was working out how to generate a mesh of triangles and needed to work out the vertex indices. It was quicker to doodle a net of triangles and note number them than to try and do it on the computer. It's probably because I'm a very visual thinker. It's also easier to work out an equation on paper than on a computer when I've got fractions and powers and stuff that are annoying at best to represent in plain text
hnthrowaway0315 · 22h ago
A notebook and a pen clear one's mind before touching the keyboard. I agree it is essential to clear one's mind before committing code to the computer. Sometimes I even write full pages of pseudo code before writing code in real programming languages.
However this is only for things that I care about. I'm OK to throw shits on the wall and see if it sticks for anything I don't care about.
I must say, without hesitation and doubt, that Claud 4 is my most important tool. I literally feel like I have the intelligence of the entire human race at my fingertips, giddily awaiting a caress from the tips of my fingertips. I honestly could not imagine my developer life without the twain of Opus and Sonnet.
Not my opinion of course, I just thought I'd include it as I found it surprisingly missing from the comments.
directevolve · 22h ago
You definitely don’t have the intelligence of the entire human race on Claude. You have a generative model of most of the published, digitized text the human race has produced. I’m happy to call it intelligent, and, as a daily user of the most recent pro LLM models, extremely useful for tasks like coding and, to some extent, search.
But as soon as I turn from implementing and debugging code to conceptual thinking or building a mental mode of a problem domain, LLMs currently function for me mainly as Grammarly on steroids. There’s no one tool in this space that’s supreme - Zotero, DuckDuckGo, Google Scholar, pen and paper, draw.io, and Google Docs all play a role. I’m a PhD student, YMMV, the LLMs do improve over time, etc.
justinrubek · 23h ago
That model has been out for something like a week, and it's already the most important tool? That's a very interesting take to me. I tried it, and it found Claude 4 particularly unusable personally, 3.7 seems better.
Aziell · 1d ago
It actually works. Every time I get stuck, writing things down helps me slow down, think more clearly, and move forward more steadily. Pen and notebook really are an underrated but essential part of being a developer.
sawaali · 22h ago
I have thought through tough problems using pen and paper. Have tried a lot of iterations of digital notebooks, but lost the fluidity and malleability of paper.
These days I have found the iPad + Pencil with an infinite canvas to be the best fit. I use Ahmni (https://www.ahmni.app/) which is a delight.
hk1337 · 23h ago
One more person confirming pen(cil) to paper helps make the connection.
I go through several different notebooks, none of which I keep what is in it because it wouldn't make sense to me now but writing it out helped for it to make sense to me then.
It's like those tv episodes with the kid making a cheat sheet on his shoe then never needs it because he remembered everything.
avinassh · 1d ago
I want to ask developers here who keep and maintain notebooks: How exactly do you take notes? What things do you write down? And how does it help you, or how has it made you a better developer?
OP's post also references a similar post [0], but I am curious to hear from the people here.
I had to work on a coding project with a serious geometric problem in the core, and no amount of thinking over code itself could help, whereas on paper, I could find the solution easily. And implementing it in code didn't progress, until I wrote down all the formulae, in sequence, on paper too.
ho_schi · 1d ago
I'm also into team note taking.
Work In Progress
Endless printer paper or doted A4 paper (I love it). It is is the planing area of my brain. Some specific notes are kept for long term and re-used, which is seldom - this can (should) moved into a moleskin. Probably I should use the moleskin more? I need a pen or pencil, on paper to plan.
Long Term Storage
I don't use it to think. Mostly digital, Markdown. Stored on my filesystem, Git or IMAP. Avoiding all weird and soon defunct commercial things.
kennu · 1d ago
I understand the sentiment, but I don't get how you could draw more complex software plans by hand. I usually use Draw.io/Diagrams.net, and the drawings get pretty large and need reorganizing dozens of boxes several times while planning the architecture.
OTOH if the plan is very simple and obvious, and can be drawn out in one go, it doesn't really need a diagram in the first place, so I skip spending time drawing the obvious stuff.
Hamatti · 1d ago
OP here.
I don't often do very complex software plans like that. My working notes are often on a smaller scale like individual features or so. If we need to document the full architecture for the project, I'm happy to do that with digital tools.
But while I'm planning parts of it or designing it, I do better with pen and paper. My main issue with many of the digital tools I've tried comes down to the added friction if I need to switch to a different tool in the app when I switch between circles and rectangles and text and the fact that I find free-hand drawing with mouse really difficult.
> OTOH if the plan is very simple and obvious, and can be drawn out in one go, it doesn't really need a diagram in the first place, so I skip spending time drawing the obvious stuff.
I think there's a middle ground where it might be easy to draw on one go but deciding what to draw and how things work together and what's needed requires iterations and for that, thinking through drawing and writing helps me a ton.
kennu · 23h ago
I guess there's many cases where you don't really know how complicated or simple the solution will end up to be, and start drawing it while thinking about it.. I must admit that those are usually the most interesting parts of the work.
kayodelycaon · 23h ago
I actually do all this stuff in my head and use hierarchies of bullet points in a text file to externalize some stuff. Some of these may end in arrows that point to a different process.
I never use paper because I'm always moving these bullet points around and inserting stuff between them. Apps are too slow.
I never write down all the information because these notes are enough for me to reload everything. It's pretty easy to see that I didn't write something when there's a gap in my notes. I never wrote it down because I'm going to come up with the same or better solution quickly.
This isn't really helpful for anyone else and doesn't work well with pair programming.
atum47 · 1d ago
I still have my notebook with the notes and drooling from my machine learning class back in college. I remember drawing nodes and connections to wrap my head around hidden layers, weights and all that. It is definitely super helpful to take notes and draw stuff when you're a dealing with a complex subject.
regus · 23h ago
I have tried multiple times to make notebooks work for me for note taking or tracking tasks but it always falls apart eventually. First it was bullet journals, then I tried something a little less structured but in the end I couldn’t get it to stick. Now I use Apple Notes which is good enough.
idlip · 21h ago
Tbh for me both seems the same. I can ignore both digital notifications and open book/paper lying there to reminder me of a task.
Its the mental state of person to commit for getting things done.
Digital method gives lot of space for organizing tho.
WCSTombs · 17h ago
I used to be able to walk down to a local store and buy a Leuchtturm1917. Sadly, I believe they've all closed in the last few years. At least I can still order them online...
gherkinnn · 1d ago
As in "the most important accessory beyond a computer and a text editor", I absolutely agree for how I work and think.
Nothing I have tried comes close. No iPad, writing code directly, talking it through, thinking it through, sketching it out on whatever drawing tool you might like. Pencil and paper are all I want.
Now, let's argue about our favourite colours and why teal is objectively the best.
t1234s · 15h ago
What does one do when their handwriting gets worse and worse as the years go on due to constant keyboard use? Is there any way to get it back?
cameron_b · 15h ago
Summarizing some discussion here before: practice, and with a goal or example.
The wayback is called practicing, i think i told that story before but at 14 i basically started writing pages and pages of alphabets and numbers, working on individual signs and ligatures
chipsrafferty · 15h ago
Are you writing often?
wrp · 1d ago
> I learned very early on in my career that I’m not very good at thinking when I’m at a computer.
Before personal computers, I had the same experience at the typewriter. I find it very inhibiting to have a machine staring me in the face, waiting, while I try to be creative.
irjustin · 1d ago
Hard disagree. My most important tool is google sheets.
Multiplayer mind mapping; idea organization; clear understanding for all; fast reorg; sequential and/or parallel flows or concepts; etc etc.
The worst part is having large calls watch me misspell things and fumble to correct it on a shared screen.
ggdhdj · 21h ago
I think my brain works the exact opposite of what he describes. I can only think about code, while I write it. Interpreted languages are a blessing for me. I was taught the approach described in the post in school (it's the Pascal way after all) and I never understood, how people can actually work like this. There really seem to be (at least) two types of programmer brains.
agcat · 18h ago
I agree. Documenting your thoughts, ideas on a notebook is one of the best ways that helps you think clearly.
bellBivDinesh · 1d ago
Can’t grep a notebook.
There’s a good insight in there about preserving your process of arriving at a conclusion, but it’s better done in obsidian or notion or something like that.
Why a superlative? For me it’s lots of things: My notebook, my editor, my terminal, my ide, my ipad, and so much more. So why „the“ most important? :)
infermore · 23h ago
read the article?
indrex · 1d ago
I thought so too. But I would rather use docstrings and comments because:
- Readable by LLMs/others in the context of the code
- Searchable
- Version controlled
visviva · 19h ago
I was kind of hoping for a deep-dive on notebook types and features, not gonna lie.
xutopia · 21h ago
For me it's taking a walk.
codyb · 18h ago
Basically any... autopilot behavior for me is going to turn into some insight at some point or another (although it's good to be in the present too! Now I try to think in Spanish which forces me to be present cause it's such a slow process for me still lol, but actually super useful I've found for continuing to flesh out those neural pathways is to just sit and talk to myself outloud in Spanish about whatever I'm doing all day)
Also love writing things on paper. I love using different pens, and write in different styles sometimes (cursive, block, normal, whatever). I just take quick throwaway notes on paper or I'll sometimes sit down and outline things for an hour over a few sheets just to put organization to some large task which I'll translate into something for consumption by others later. Almost always throw these away. Sometimes I work through a notepad, sometimes it's a little notebook, sometimes it's printer paper... getting away from the screen for a bit is lovely.
And I set up a notes section on my computer which I can pop open with a quick <space>X in ViM which has a directory structure giving me spaces for recurring meetings, architecture work, or notes on whatever initiatives I'm trying to push through. I index file names with 01-, 02- etc and if I have a section that branches out I'll just add another index so 01A-, 01B-, etc...
Having everything in ViM with a tmux conf setup that scaffolds out a ton of different spaces I've set up mnemonic keyboard shortcuts to navigate to is really helpful in reducing the overload of having Slack, IDEs, browsers, notepads, music, etc etc etc all open at once (since on a good day I just have Slack, Outlook, iTerm, Firefox and maybe Figma or Music open at most points). I'm also quick to wipe away tabs in the browser...
Next up I'm diving into Figma so I can turn these ideas into beautiful diagrams and even mock interfaces my partners can ingest visually for easier understanding of complex spaces
Finally, and I'm thankful I can afford to do this, but I turn all notification sounds off, Slack'll bounce once from the hidden dock...
It's great, distraction free, tailored to my needs, a fair amount of variety, and some really nice productive times.
babuloseo · 11h ago
My most important tool is ChatGPT.
calebm · 21h ago
I'm pretty sure a developer can get more done with a computer than a notebook...
zuzuleinen · 1d ago
I like to have an Obsidian vault for every company I work for.
But when I really need to think I upgrade to pen and paper.
jokoon · 22h ago
many times, I solved problem I was stuck with, by hanging outside at the park, with pen and paper
digitalsushi · 23h ago
we have given new life to the vim-emacs religious war, this time pens-vs-keyboards. fascinating
namblooc · 23h ago
That got me curious how the author debugs his code using a notebook!
backendEngineer · 14h ago
mine is now gemma3-12b-qat local, come at me AI doomers
amelius · 1d ago
And your secretary types in the code and it runs in the first attempt?
thecrumb · 21h ago
After scribbling down notes in paper notebooks for years I finally decided I didn't want to kill any more trees to take notes I seldom referenced.
Now I have a digital tablet (Supernote) on which I scribble down all the meaningless stuff throughout the day. Then I review that and anything useful or important goes into Obsidian where I can tag/search it later.
magistr4te · 21h ago
I've never done the math on this, but my immediate thought on that reasoning was always that you'd have to burn through a LOT of paper to actually have such an electronic product be more environmentally friendly. Does anyone have concrete data on this?
__natty__ · 21h ago
I found some data on slate - between 7000-14000 sheets to balance an iPad over 3 years of usage. [0]
On the scale of the amount of harm you personally do to the planet on a daily basis, I have to imagine wasting paper is one of the least consequential things.
ge96 · 23h ago
Most jobs I've had I use a macbook and I take daily notes in the Apple Notes app
Ex:
W22 D111 Wed May 28, 2025 (7)
The (7) means hours since I'm a contractor and I do walks/subtracts time that I fill in with PTO
I will probably get a remarkable 2 again at some point, it seems redundant if you have a tablet like device (I have a Surface Book 3) but that is rarely used funny. I used to use an RM2 a lot but had to sell it when I needed cash. It's cool that it's programmable.
For example, I recently stopped coding all the time and picked up a new hobby at night, writing. That simple change gave my brain a reset and actually improved the performance during the day. Same goes for planning: switching from digital to pen and paper breaks the routine and makes your brain engage differently. It’s less about the tool and more about how the change wakes you up.
Was waiting for someone to comment this. It's a somewhat known strategy if you have to read through a bunch of boring code you don't want to work with, and find hard to focus with, to turn off the syntax highlight and somehow the brain stops glossing over/skimming the code and starts to pay more attention.
I found it led to marginal difference at best, as with most strategies. It does work well initially though, as I guess the brain stops being able to use colors it's used to for grouping stuff together and similar.
I'm adept at using both but the change adds just enough friction and visual differences to spark creativity, or a little productivity boost.
I find it much better that way.
Both seem to explore how breaking out of autopilot can unlock better thinking, which is exactly what I’ve been noticing in my own routines.
I am naturally prone to optimizing friction away--autistic engineer--but have come to realize regularly putting myself in uncomfortable positions professionally and personally works for me as a form of exposure therapy.
Nowadays, in the event I'm thrust into such an unfamiliar situation against my will, I'm still functional.
An enormously valuable knock on effect was coming to the realization the things I enjoy most in life are those which have been a surprise, and I would have simply avoided weren't I being intentional in pushing my own boundaries.
That'll bake your noodle for a good long while :)
- Zen koan I read a while ago, might have got the wording a bit wrong, but a fun one.
Just googled, and it is Wikipedia too, but "koan" is only in the See also section:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_a_tree_falls_in_a_forest_...
One small example of a problem we were required to learn was that of a pipe running through a space at some angle and determine if it intersected something important.
I have used the voice recorder less over the years but I find it optimal when time is limited and I have to move onto something else. Part of using a voice recorder as a medium is listening closely afterwards and writing down what I said in a different manner (either in a more permanent paper notebook or digitally in a text file). And yes, each iteration transforms the idea at least somewhat. It gives you the chance to see the idea in a different way.
Paper Notebooks + old-school Digital Voice Recorder (get one which takes replaceable batteries) are a great combo to train oneself to use regularly and consistently for everything.
Going to the kitchen, boiling water and letting it brew, gets me away from my desk and gives me an opportunity to start thinking out loud while I wait.
Sometimes just getting up out of my chair will shake loose some tough problem and the answer will be clear.
Alas, even after all these years, I occasionally grind away on things rather than remembering this.
I started a blog to get my thoughts out and explore whatever sparked my curiosity. It’s been a creative blast, and I’m still figuring it out as I go.
I do journal, though it’s more of a quick log, tracking time and daily developments. My deeper writing is more immersed. Lately, I’ve been spending a few hours most nights working on a self-improvement book, which I’ve been enjoying writing.
One unexpected benefit I can’t emphasize enough is how much writing has helped me stay sharp and more focused in my day job. It’s like a reset button for the brain. If you’re feeling stuck or low on motivation, I really recommend trying something completely different in your routine, especially something outside your comfort zone, like switching from digital to analog. Thanks for asking!
I have seldom found personal notes from far in the past to be useful. If there's something worth noting down, then it goes into documentation, so others can stumble upon whatever quirk I've come across in the future. If there's something I really want to remember, I create flashcards and do spaced repetition until I've learned the thing. But that's just me, and I imagine my way doesn't work for a lot of people.
I think people are taking this post a little too personally and literally. This is a writer's piece. The title is meant to share a philosophy that this developer subscribes to. Nothing about it is declaring that others must subscribe to it as well.
If a pen and notebook don't work for you, then don't use it.
Here's one of the hundreds of articles about this, it's a very well documented phenomenon https://www.newscientist.com/article/2414241-writing-things-...
Writing by hand also has a greater effect than typing because it engages more of the senses and more of the brain, in particular the motor cortex.
I keep telling myself that this would all make a great excuse to get a Moleskine, but handwriting just isn't a part of my workflow. Typing copious amounts of stuff into text buffers and then transforming it is, especially now that we have LLMs. If my brain is totally non-functional I simply start typing barely intelligible phrases into a text editor until it wakes up, then I go back and edit/refactor/clean up, and frequently something comes out of this that looks like a vague outline of an email or piece of code I need to write that day. Or at least a todo list. Then we're off to the races doing actual work. Most of the initial doodling is destroyed.
Handwriting does aid retention though.
I guess we have a large enough population of people who’ve always taken notes on their computers that a natural experiment could have occurred. But I wonder about the crosstabs—computers can be very distracting so I wonder if people who prefer them to notebooks will also just tend to be more distracted.
You don’t need so much force to be applied to the pen compared to other writing instruments and the more comfortable writing experience helped my ADHD brain better tolerate it to.
I periodically review the notes and summarize anything worth keeping into the appropriate system of record (calendar, tickets, wiki, spaced repetition, doesn't matter). Like you, I find that very little is actually worth keeping. And that's fine; the paper notes are not a system of record but more of an extension of working memory.
Same, but I still keep them (both notebooks and random pieces of paper). I find it extremely satisfying to just look into them after many years. It's like looking at random old photos, photos of my thinking process from the past.
Occasionally i'll write something down that I know I'll forget for later reference and put a small post-it sticking out for easy access.
My point is that I'd view this behavior more as a consequence of the circumstances many scientists find themselves in rather than a conscious choice, though I do admit that some people may like it more than I do.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38772707
I personally find paper&pen both comforting and unsettling at the same time. Soothing because writing really helps sort out thoughts etc. Mindflow is different from flow "on the computer/phone/tablet".
On the other hand, it's distracting because without an index system (I start each notebook with two blank pages trying to index the contents; every other page has a number) it's easy to get lost.
But today's kids, being digital natives, may take a different approach. Paper&pen may present anxiety for them. So it very much depends on the family we grew up in.
What I do is write notes in the best format for paper: an append-only log with a date on top. Whether digitally or on paper, I rarely if at all need to consult notes from a long time ago, so the log is good enough for most use cases. In fact, as I mentioned elsewhere, writing by hand is not to store data, it’s a way to effectively digest information and incorporate it into your brain. You’ll get a lot of benefit of writing something and immediately throwing it away, so who cares about indexing it for later.
I use a smart pen that writes in a notebook, but also stores everything I write in memory. Every month or so I export the content of the pen to my computer via Bluetooth as OCRed PDFs. This is because my boss often asks me to account for time I spend doing different things, and I can quickly search the PDFs.
I am thinking about trying to do something with this like scanning for connections between notes or adding some tags to make ideas easier to find.
I used to do this very intentionally. In the past, I've found that taking notes is very valuable for me, but having notes seldom is.
When I was in school, I would write all my notes on a dry erase board and simply erase it when I had filled up the page. That was when I was studying things that were already known, though, so it was viable to, for reference material, just become skilled at referencing pre-existing reference material.
Now that I'm a professional and often working on something new or combining things in a new way, it's more often useful to me to generate new reference content for myself and especially for a different person who picks up the task on my day off.
That's the most important takeaway from using pen(cil) and paper. If you can make it reusable for you great but the most important thing is physically writing it down.
I rarely, if ever, keep anything I have written down in the notebook. Eventually, I rip it out and shred it.
Donald Knuth works that way. In fact, most such people tend to do most of their thinking on paper, making small changes to the problem state, verifying if it sticks, and is going where they want it going. Rollback, make a different change to the same thing, or same change to different things. This goes on over hundreds of pages.
One of the advanced user level performers don't tend to view stationary(especially paper) as something that must be rationed or spent with limits.
The tools you shared are of course important and I enjoy having them a lot. Wouldn't want to work as a developer without version control or debuggers, for sure. Those are tools that if I lost them, it surely would slow me down and be annoying.
I do truly consider notebook more important to me than those. Writing and running code is the tool to get things done but software development to me is more importantly building something valuable that solves problems or makes life easier. And to that, code is often somewhat trivial implementation detail — it's much more important to figure out what to build and how.
Some people are good at thinking when they are in a code editor or other digital tools. My brain goes into detail implementation mode and it's hard for me to see the big picture when I'm writing in code editor and building functionality.
For me, it's crucial part of my job to take my notebook and use it as a tool for thinking before (and during!) coding. While losing access to the other tools would definitely slow me down, not being able to think through writing with pen and paper would cripple my thinking, my problem solving ability, my creativity and thus cause me writing bad software.
Yes, but the post above is pointing out that you would be significantly slower without an IDE, compiler or debugger than you would be without a pen/paper. In fact, I don't think you would be a professional programmer if you didn't have them.
Saying you like a notebook and pen while designing and writing software is very different than saying a notebook and pen are more important than an IDE, compiler, or debugger.
This is a strange take. Programmers were around before any of those tools were. And today, even many professional programmers do their work without using any of them: they use text editors, they write interpreted languages, and they use printf()-debugging or other techniques.
Like a human brain? I'd say that is the programmer's most important tool, and it is not connected to electricity, an OS, or the internet.
Slower at creating what? With just great tooling there is still a real risk of creating the wrong thing just very fast.
OP's point is that it is a thinking tool more so than a creating tool.
When people criticize like that, you know you’re doing something right. “Only people doing less than you will criticize “
Keep it up!
The difference between the blue collar machinist and the white collar engineer is exactly this view of the machines they use.
For an engineer a machine - be in a slide rule, calculator or super computer - is just a tool. You're not doing engineering because you're using the tool. You're doing engineering because you're thinking and the tool helps you think a bit faster.
For a machinist the machine is the job. You can't make widgets if you don't have a machine to make them on. Thinking about widgets is pointless because they don't get made by thinking.
"when building a house, obviously a hammer is more important than the _paper_ blueprints. This isn't art class, it's construction".
(when digital notes/digital blueprints are an available option)
I love "This isn't craftsmanship cosplay, it's software engineering.". I will definitely steal this, let me put it in my notebook.
Nice slap down.
Aaaa. I’d like to see stats over the comments—if management role, job history, age, income, education—and I’d expect opinions would be revealed as archetypical. In other words, it says more about the speaker than it says about successful software development.
Clearly the OP is talking about what works for them mentally—focus, creativity.
It’s a mistake for anyone to read a post like this and think of it (and the criticism) as prescriptive. Emulating any of the patterns would have the same result of cargo cult behavior.
But the sentiment holds true. When you're building software designing good code is the most fundamentally important aspect of your job. All the tools you mention are things that enable you to delivery that code, but if the design of the code itself is wrong then they mean very little. The process of designing code feels like a lost art these days; developers are far too happy to throw crap at a wall until enough of it sticks to pass the acceptance criteria. Going back to actually working out the logic and flow of the code (on paper, in a diagramming app, whatever) is missing for a vast amount of the dev community.
If people were happy to work through the logic of a feature before hitting their IDE and debugging the first thing they code up, maybe apps would be a bit less buggy.
Although I would agree that we have more modern tools, I'm not sure they're better along every dimension: pen and paper is better for memory retention than typing. Also, while YMMV, oen and paper works wonders for brainstorming for me.
Though admittedly search is easier with digital tools.
I throw away almost all my handwritten notes, because of the downsides: illegibility, unsearchability, physical bulk.
But the qualitative difference of thinking or reading +/- handwriting is huge. I don’t get caught up in editing. I can draw diagrams easily. It slows me down, makes me dwell on an idea while I’m writing it, and thereby physically calibrates my thought process.
So far, I haven't found tools that beat pen and paper as tools for thinking _for me_.
I still do write a lot of digital notes too but I find that the flexibility of pen and paper — not to mention never having to worry about running out of battery compared to tablets or similar — crucial benefit.
Digital tools might result in better outputs but that's not what my notes are for. I prioritise minimising the friction that's between my thoughts and getting them on paper. On digital, I'm either limited by structure (f.ex. a Markdown file is limited by text being forced into lines) or having to change between tools when I want to jot down something in different format (text, circles, rectangles, arrows, whatever). It's a very small amount of work to switch between them but it cuts my thought because I need to think about the tools.
Pen and paper is the most direct connection my brain I've found.
Has a notebook or a whiteboard been handy at times? Of course. But the rubber meets the road behind the IDE, and the tooling there is the story of the day.
In my now ~35 years of programming, I've found reaching for the notebook often saves me from needing to rely on a debugger unless it's code I inherited and didn't write myself. Even then, though, mapping it out on paper and using my pseudocode-shorthand to describe what the program does and what it intends to do is often faster than dealing with a debugger for anything but trivial bugs.
I’d go further to say that software development isn’t about writing code, it’s about designing and understanding programs. Code is an implementation detail, the understanding is what is crucial.
What kind of code do you work on?
I find notebooks useful all the time, but I write in C for embedded systems, so a lot of what I do involves setting up data structures, memory layout, etc.
Everyone’s different I guess, but for me I’ve never really reached much for a notebook. I just start writing code, refactor as needed, and rely on tooling from debugger/IDE/devtools when and where applicable.
The new stuff is often fast and many jobs need it by way of keeping up with the standard practices and creating a hiring filter, but it's a supplement, not a foundational tool for thought. It can't be all that important because it's constantly shifting.
Pen and paper is more helpful when I'm trying to see how the solution I came up with fits into the code, at least for me. I can't visualize at all, so even basic things about how data flows will be helpful if I write them down. The more concrete I'm getting, the more I use pen and paper or text documents. Otherwise it's just give myself time to work through the code as I know it, thinking of things and discarding them quickly, and waiting for inspiration to strike.
For people with higher confidence, those of us who have been around the block a few times, the article is correct. The supporting tools you mention are beneficial, but they aren’t the most important tool. The most important tool is soft skills and taking notes.
But perhaps it's a lack of knowing what a debugger can deliver.
A debugger gives you the ability to immediately dive in and instantly inspect the complete stack trace, all the values on the stack, all the values of local variables, etc. Without restarting the program or calling out specifically what you're going to want to inspect ahead of time.
A debugger will "pause the world" and let you see all the parallel stacks.
A debugger will let you set conditional breakpoints. If you need to debug the conditions for when a variable gets set to a particular value, a conditional breakpoint on the variable set to break when it's set to that particular value makes that a doddle.
A debugger will let you enumerate collections and re-write values on the fly.
A debugger will let you break on exceptions, even ones normally caught and handled.
A debugger can launch and attach itself.
All of that is a massive force-multiplier and time-saver, which print debugging doesn't deliver.
I use my debugger often, but sometimes you need to track the value of something over time (say, over 1000 iterations) and a debugger can't show you that.
So prints are still relevant. Debugger are more for "needle-in-haystack" stuff I think.
A debugger that could record the execution over time (and query that execution), that would be great. I know there are some, but are there for python for example ?
Do you mind providing examples? I’m not sure what I would search to find that and I’m interested in the idea.
Linus Torvalds:
> I don't like debuggers. Never have, probably never will. I use gdb all the time, but I tend to use it not as a debugger, but as a disassembler on steroids that you can program.
> I don't think kernel development should be "easy". I do not condone single-stepping through code to find the bug. I do not think that extra visibility into the system is necessarily a good thing.
> Oh. And sure, when things crash and you fsck and you didn't even get a clue about what went wrong, you get frustrated. Tough. There are two kinds of reactions to that: you start being careful, or you start whining about a kernel debugger.
> I happen to believe that not having a kernel debugger forces people to think about their problem on a different level than with a debugger. I think that without a debugger, you don't get into that mindset where you know how it behaves, and then you fix it from there. Without a debugger, you tend to think about problems another way. You want to understand things on a different _level_.
https://lkml.org/lkml/2000/9/6/65
And I agree. At least for me, print debugging goes a long way, and I'm already invested in building mental models about code. I think using a proper debugger has to be the last resort, because nothing else works and it's time to get into the ugly details. Two valuable avenues for producing good code are formal verification (and its ilk, such as specification) and horse sense/common sense, which combine to say that we should have rigorous mental models that impose on our code. That's the primary objective, to me. The use of tools such as debuggers is secondary, and in my experience, largely neutral or harmful. There's the classic caveat of "if your goal is to ship code fast, then this isn't practical", which is fair, but I have some things to say about shucking off that culture.
That's not to say I don't also use debuggers when necessary, I just reserve those for very hairy problems that can't be solved any other way, e.g. stepping into dependencies. Let's not forget that debuggers have their limitations too, e.g. release build GC optimization (or indeed any release-only bug), and any init process where you have to attach the debugger after the startup, fundamentally cannot be debugged using debuggers.
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You can design a house on paper, but you need e.g. mallets and wheelbarrows to build it; you can design software with "tools for thought", more or less computerized, but you need the automation offered by CI, version control etc. to handle the more concrete aspects properly.
I iterate faster, have more freedom and information is displayed and manipulated in a more ergonomic way to me on a computer, in such a way that it creates a symbiotic relationship. I severely doubt physical notetaking and brainstorming could ever compare
? It's the (mostly anonymous) internet and not linkedin. People call these things out all the time?
And even writing software I often make toss-away paper sketches; they help me see things in a way that make sense to me. Not replacing a computer, but complementing it. I would not push my method on everyone but it works for me. I also think similar techniques are fairly common. People discuss ideas verbally. They take walks to let brain take a different view, etc. My 2c.
Plenty of the research is online for you to answer your own question.
Some of us who grew up in the 1970s and 1980s even used to "program" by handwriting code on paper as kind of a rough draft.
I did this particularly for systems I didn't have at home, like the Apple ][. I'd handwrite programs at home, then take it to school and type it into an Apple ][. This was somewhat common.
I'm personally not a fan of pen and paper, I find it to not scale, I often change devices or I'm on the move, so I rely mostly on note apps (mostly Notion).
I agree with parent comment of notebook and pen being pure romanticism. I mean, heck, I'd rate Obsidian or some other back linking note software as more important than a notebook and pen. A sticky note and pen would be even more important than a notebook and pen.
For at least some people, stepping away from the keyboard may be the best way to do that thinking.
To put it in your own style: This isn't typing class, it's software engineering.
(Maybe it’s different in modern college classes now but wasn’t for decades.)
(Maybe it’s different in modern college classes now but wasn’t for decades.)
/Old enough to have heard, "OK, now put away your slide rules…"
The author uses pen and paper because when they sit down at a computer they end up shifting to "function mode" where they're implementing rather than designing.
That's it.
The important takeaway is to make sure you don't fall into the trap of implementing when you should be designing. How you maintain that balance is up to you.
Exactly! So happy to read you managed to pick up the core gist of the story.
It's important to find the tools that work best for YOU.
I partially wanted to write this because I've often felt as an outsider in tech teams where everyone sits at a computer 7.5 hours every day and I'm the one thinking better when I'm away from the screen and keyboard. So I wanted to offer an example to those who are like me and also feel like they might not belong.
1). The available screen real estate for doing work is tiny.
2). The tools people use have happy paths that force you to work a specific way.
3). Deep thinking is impossible with interruptions.
As an example of a tool which works best on computers, I've finally recreated the literate environment I used at a previous job on my own time and from scratch: https://olive-alayne-28.tiiny.site/
I can now work happily with Emacs in an environment that supports deep thinking about code instead of fighting with it every step of the way.
If you're interested [1] and [3] from that paper are great introductions to literate programming and noweb + emacs + synctex is by far the most pleasant IDE I've ever used.
I also can't rave enough about how well pen tablets work with xournalpp these days. I can take notes on top of multi-thousand page printouts of code bases and rearrange, doodle, remix, and add new pages wherever I feel like. Even five years ago there was no tool that would let you do that without the threat of a major crash is you wrote too fast.
I have aphantasia - I can't visualise/picture things in my mind, so I use pen and paper or whiteboards A LOT!
I create various ERDs, mind maps, sequence diagrams etc. I use a ReMarkable which makes it a bit easier to move stuff around and makes it more effective.
I get that some people might think it is 'pure romanticism', but pen and paper has been crucial for my success.
... then like magic, the code comes naturally (I'm guessing that's how normal people think when programming)!
OP is on the right path: think before you code.
One of the neat things about being in the last few years of my career (started in 1988) is how the tools change. I'm a senior principal software architect at a large-ish company. And I don't write a single line of code. I write everything in Visio, Word, and PowerPoint (and sometimes PlantUML). As you move up the abstraction ladder the tools become simpler. I define architectures that will deploy into 10-year lifespan applications (think military, medical, and automotive tier-1), and the code that implements it--or even the language used--has absolutely zero impact on the architecture. Mostly C and C++ (went through an Ada period, too), and some of it might even be implemented in Rust over the next few years as it matures into the automotive world, but when you're high enough up, the implementation is irrelevant.
What matters are the building blocks, the apis, and most importantly, the encapsulation because that has an impact on the silicon, security, manufacturing, and test. Stuff that can be drawn and explained in a few slides, and not the code itself. (Of course, my lovely boxes have to be able to withstand upstream discoveries of flaws in the architecture, but that's the fun part!)
The item in question for anyone curious: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BS1WJZNW
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-writing-by-ha...
https://stackoverflow.blog/2022/11/23/why-writing-by-hand-is...
Writing by hand definitely is better for a squirrel brain like me. And searching is overrated, most note-taking is write-only and tends to accumulate without anyone ever reading it back. So optimize for memory retention so you can later form better mental associations with the material, rather than how searchable on a computer it is. Notes on a PC are inert, what you want is to integrate their contents into your brain so you can actually do something with it.
That notebook is the fastest most accessible tool to capture my thoughts. I can state concisely what was discussed in a team meeting last october before any notetaking tool boots up. I know kids names, birthdays and favorite movies of almost all my coworkers which I can glance without switching windows while sharing my screen.
the impossibility of such content being legible to anyone else and being shared is a feature I value very highly.
i take it where i want, introspect, take notes. No screen. No distractions. I doodle, draw lines, write jokes, whatever.
Pages on the right are work things. On the left are my ideas. Index on the first page tells me exactly where to turn to for that idea and mockups i had on filling tedious forms.
I know when I'm spinning my wheels. I can see the gaps in my thinking from months ago. I can see patterns in human behavior that I would otherwise have not noticed.
The simplicity is a huge advantage. I stopped looking for anything better. I don't try to promote it either (except on rare occasions). Saved me hours.
first page is always for index, split vertically and you get roughly 80 entries with about 3-4 words each. one for each page that i number as i go writing through the book. index usually has just pointers to days when i get interesting ideas.
each right page is for 1 week that i label up top. a small margin is dedicated for recurring meetings. using only the right side allows quickly flipping through. rest of the page is for todos and logs.
left pages are for related thoughts, ideas, etc from that week. sometimes overflows but not by much.
For wordy stuff, i use pages from the back of the book. I don't use sentences much. Just few words with lines connecting them.
Thats pretty much it - index, numbered pages and using just the right side per week. It works wonders for how simple it is. You'll find something else that works for you. Don't overthink this. Just start with a structure and let it evolve.
side note - i do use a folder for plain text notes on my work laptop (that i keep open in sublime) for links and text that benefits from copy and paste. i would not care if it all got deleted or leaked out to the world. I also have another folder of interesting bookmarks and articles exported to pdf for reading on a flight on my phone. i have a dozen or so google docs with my thoughts on topics i'm interested in.
I'm currently looking at a stack of lovely "Leuchtturm1917" A5 note books. The way I took notes for the last three years has been chaotic, that's why I was interested in your way of doing them. I think, finding a mode of work and let it grow and iterate over time is the way to go. I see room for improvement with regards to how I structure my notes, so that I can find them again - that's what I'm struggeling with in my analog world. So, thanks for your insights, they are really valuable!
I type much faster on a keyboard, I can read it even a month from now while I can't do that with my own handwriting, and when I make a mistake, I can quickly and easily correct it.
I my books, I use Tipp-Ex for that. I usually write with a ballpoint pen.
I often browse my notes even when I'm not looking for anything. I read what I've been thinking previously because that often sparks new ideas and thoughts.
One thing where I find pen and paper superior to digital is that it's easy to write in the margins, draw arrows and annotate. When I got my first iPad and tested out digital notebook tools (with stylus), I was excited about the idea that I can resize and move my existing drawings around.
Then it took me a few days to notice that I don't really ever need that. I don't need my "finished" notes to look tidy or good. I got over the need to have organised and structured notebooks and embraced the chaos.
I guess it's different things for different people. For me, the flexibility of paper is superior to any digital solution because it has the shortest "input lag" or "feedback loop" to my brain. I'm happy to sacrifice other potential benefits for that.
I wholeheartedly agree with the author. I find it really hard to think deeply at a computer. Too many distractions.
The speed of writing and search isn't a problem for me. With the writing, I wish I could write faster, but deep thinking isn't fast anyway.
Search, well, 99% of what I write is never looked at again. It's all a process of working things out, committing stuff to memory.
Whenever I'm stuck, stepping away from the computer is usually the best way forward.
It's remarkable how much of the lecture you'll remember. And when you read your handwritten notes, you'll remember the lecture that went with it.
Then go over the notes later and summarise or add details on those left hand pages. I used to do the colour pen/highlighting then.
Worked for me half a century ago. No data format problems or need for legacy hardware either.
Jokes aside, I often used to take notes only on the left side because of it, and sometimes the right side, except upside down.
My favorite pens at the time were the Pilot pens. Today I love the Tul pens.
I have long since scanned them all in. I should post them on my website, just for fun.
In retrospect, I sorely wished I had set up a cassette recorder and recorded all the audio. It would be a gold mine today, as all those lectures are lost to time.
On the other hand, I had no money to buy cassette tapes at the time.
It is absolutely the wrong tool for any long-term information store. Ephemeral think-it-through process notes only. Obsidian for anything that should live longer than the current problem I’m trying to solve.
> It's slow to write
Only to an extent. I write fast enough with pen and paper that my thinking is the bottleneck — which isn't really that fast. I don't need to write down everything I think so it also acts as a filter and processor of those thoughts.
> insanely slow to search what you've written
Compared to digital notes system, sure. But the way I use my notes, I don't usually need a full-text search to find stuff. I remember what I've been working on, I often browse through my notebooks to revisit ideas and most often these notebook notes are kind of a "working copy" where the search relevance is often just for the feature so it only needs to be fast to search for a few days or weeks.
I also do copy many of my notes down in digital format too when there's something worth capturing for long term storage for the sake of searching for example.
> almost impossible to copy or share
100%. Sharing is not a consideration for me, these are my raw pure thoughts and explorations, they don't often make much sense to other people as-is. Sometimes I may take a photo of a UI sketch or something to share if needed but otherwise when I have something to share, I write it based on my notes rather than sharing my notes as they are.
I typically get through a couple of B5 pages a day, so homing in on the thing I want to look at is a matter of opening the notebook to roughly the right fortnight and then flicking through up to a dozen pages in either direction. A tenth of a second per page is enough to scan for major events - what projects was I working on at the time? Were there any major interruptions to my flow, or changes in direction?
And then, once I've found the right day, seeing the detail of everything I was doing at the time triggers a flood of memories - I remember all of the conversations, decisions, problems, and ideas that were current at the time of the entry in question.
I've tried a number of digital notetaking systems, but none has been able to give me so much context so quickly as a paper notebook.
To me, if the problem is too complex, or more likely, if I expect to be distracted by family and chores, "building in my head" is not the best option as it all falls apart and need to build it up from scratch (though admittedly faster than last time).
I use an automatic scanner to store the important papers as documentation. Now you can even send those to gemini or google cloud to digitalise it for cheap.
At any given time I have four sheets of paper over my desk that I can see in parallel, but I could have 8 or 10 for complex problems with areas equivalent to engineering or architectural blueprints.
Having said that, I can draw and paint very well as I was interested since childhood and had formal training. Probably is not for everyone, but it is for me.
To me, none of the qualities you listed matter when it comes to sketching ideas, thinking about problems, staying on track while problem solving. When I'm done with the task, I read through my notes once and throw it out.
It serves the same purpose as the lab notebook does for a researcher.
The notebook doesn't take up significant room. If you still have a space problem, run it through a scanner.
Also: I just like writing.
that's probably the most important thing. it forces you to slow down and think it through and actually absorb it.
Searching what I have written in the past would be useless for me because it wouldn't necessarily make sense. It's more about the physically writing it out.
If you need to draw approximate diagrams, or formulae, or flows, or trees, or whatever else, instead...
Working on an architecture with a peer and marker really led to some elegant class designs.
The last time I worked as a CTO I bought them for the whole team. Being able to redraw things on a shared digital white board beats having to redraw the same 4 boxes a dozen times because you keep running out of space.
Also saves people taking photos of the white board before erasing.
I have to say, that's pretty damn cool! I'm such a fan of diagramming code and systems, so having this for everyone on the team I'm guessing would have done wonders!
I now have a A2 paper notebook (I think it's actually supposed to be used as an artist's sketchbook) permanently next to my keyboard (my mouse sits on it) and I can't imagine living without it now... but a 24" pen display, mindblown!
4k and quite affordable. And it's a real screen the rest of the time.
Like I said the main quality of life improvement has been xournalpp. Development in the last year has taken off and it's one of the most pleasant projects to contribute to.
1) it’s prettier and less messy 2) the digital markers are never dry 3) it encourages more edits and changes
I basically start all my technical designs in excalidraw now
I can make more complex drawings in excalidraw than I could on a really drawing surface. I suspect that leads to simpler drawings and thus simpler designs.
This helps with the search and copy issue of going physical. But writing things for your ongoing process / tasks makes you remember things so much better. Sometimes, all I have to do is write. I don't have refer them. But if I have to, I usually have a better sense of how I got to the end result cos I have the journey written down in my notebook. Also being a fountain pen lover helps.
You must choose one side or the other, and fully commit to it (like everyone else in this comment section). But it's too late now, since you've already tried both sides (fully digital and fully notebook) with an open mind, that means your opinion is automatically invalid and wrong.
Them's the rules.
https://brajeshwar.com/2025/notes/
None of it is saved. I use it to extend my working memory for complex design problems, and for this purpose I find it very effective. The advantage of paper and pencil is that it is naturally and efficiently amenable to non-linear and somewhat arbitrary patterns of access and representation.
Software really struggles at this because computer UIs force everything into coarse linear workflows no matter the presentation, which makes navigating and rewiring a large number of orthogonal dimensions awkward and inefficient on the best days.
As we're absorbing this idea... I've seen employment contracts for technical people that arguably might consider these handwritten notes to be IP artifacts, which must be preserved and made accessible to the company.
If that's your situation, you could scribble the date, your name, project, etc. in some margin of the piece of paper, and stick it in a pile/folder. To eventually be scanned, and the file put somewhere accessible, and/or the paper technically preserved.
In a startup, you might also want to preserve things like these for nostalgia, even if they have no IP value. One seed startup, I kept a folder of "nostalgia" photos, video clips, screenshots, etc., of early prototypes, people working late, incremental successes, etc., and it was quickly a good thing. It's amazing how well you can progress, and what positive feelings you have some of these things that quickly become nostalgic. Anyone can see the current state of the code in the repo, but here's the pencil sketch on quadrille paper (or a napkin) one evening that became our architecture.
I do go through all the old papers when I discard them but 99% of the time there is no discernible value. The thought process that created them is strongly non-linear, which does not lend itself to naive linear consumption at all later date.
Yes A4 is quite big but has good advantages for inserting loose papers and the A4 real estate is a great size for user interface design.
The other place where typed up notes are extremely useful is with business users and meetings that go back and forth ending in confusion. A shared screen with minimal notes that the requester sees (and agrees) works wonders in bringing focus.
It's especially useful for graphics/visual programming tasks.
I literally just write down everything important in meetings because it keeps me focused and I enjoy the act of hand writing.
And then I keep notes in a giant endless .md file of what my goals are for the day. It's like 10 lines per day max.
The single most powerful thing I do is ask questions and write down the answers. When I want to understand a system this is the fundamental step that cannot be skipped. How crucial it is that I understand the system will tell me how formal I need to be in my thinking. If it's a basic web application or a report I need to generate it's a simple, informal note. If we're talking about a critical system that's distributed and requires high-availability with hard limits on processing time and the consequence of getting things wrong is that businesses and people lose money/property? Then I'll bust out the mathematics and model things formally.
I've experimented as well with writing code on paper first. This doesn't work so well with procedural languages without some form of shorthand/formalism. It works much better with statically-typed functional programming languages. When using such languages I mostly need to reason about the types: the implementation is a matter of filling in the holes which can be done when I'm at the keyboard. The more I learn to "think in types," the better this works but I'm not super great at it yet.
Notebooks are where it all begins.
I also use notebooks to journal my work. I use the bullet journal system to keep track of my work. Keeping it on paper forces me to sit in front of it and physically remind myself of my tasks. It helps me stay focused on the day to day activities and not lose track of my longer-term goals. After using one long enough this way it becomes a chronicle of my work. Handy for performance review season. A great deal of programming work comes out of these journals.
Some folks prefer digital tools and that's fine and dandy. I'm just old school and prefer physicality. Paper and pen work on the level my brain works on and gives me a break from screen, keyboard, and constant stream of notifications. Room and freedom to think without interruptions is important and useful.
Pen and paper are great because it forces you to think and design without going into too much details and being distracted.
I find myself alternating between 2 modals: pen and paper vs. use Sublime Text to just write down some thoughts. Either seems to work well.
Default mode network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_mode_network
I would like to explore using stuff like Zettlekastan note systems with emacs a bit more for actually holding onto a web of knowledge that I refer to. Though this is a different ends, and so requires a different means.
The input speed on keyboard is just way faster than with pen:/
Sometimes I still use notebook but it becomes less unfortunately.
But my my challenges are just not challenging
Can you elaborate? Do you have any examples of such interactions with LLMs?
However this is only for things that I care about. I'm OK to throw shits on the wall and see if it sticks for anything I don't care about.
https://hamatti.org/posts/how-i-take-work-notes-as-a-develop...
Not my opinion of course, I just thought I'd include it as I found it surprisingly missing from the comments.
But as soon as I turn from implementing and debugging code to conceptual thinking or building a mental mode of a problem domain, LLMs currently function for me mainly as Grammarly on steroids. There’s no one tool in this space that’s supreme - Zotero, DuckDuckGo, Google Scholar, pen and paper, draw.io, and Google Docs all play a role. I’m a PhD student, YMMV, the LLMs do improve over time, etc.
These days I have found the iPad + Pencil with an infinite canvas to be the best fit. I use Ahmni (https://www.ahmni.app/) which is a delight.
I go through several different notebooks, none of which I keep what is in it because it wouldn't make sense to me now but writing it out helped for it to make sense to me then.
It's like those tv episodes with the kid making a cheat sheet on his shoe then never needs it because he remembered everything.
OP's post also references a similar post [0], but I am curious to hear from the people here.
[0] - https://hamatti.org/posts/how-i-take-work-notes-as-a-develop...
Work In Progress
Endless printer paper or doted A4 paper (I love it). It is is the planing area of my brain. Some specific notes are kept for long term and re-used, which is seldom - this can (should) moved into a moleskin. Probably I should use the moleskin more? I need a pen or pencil, on paper to plan.
Long Term Storage
I don't use it to think. Mostly digital, Markdown. Stored on my filesystem, Git or IMAP. Avoiding all weird and soon defunct commercial things.
OTOH if the plan is very simple and obvious, and can be drawn out in one go, it doesn't really need a diagram in the first place, so I skip spending time drawing the obvious stuff.
I don't often do very complex software plans like that. My working notes are often on a smaller scale like individual features or so. If we need to document the full architecture for the project, I'm happy to do that with digital tools.
But while I'm planning parts of it or designing it, I do better with pen and paper. My main issue with many of the digital tools I've tried comes down to the added friction if I need to switch to a different tool in the app when I switch between circles and rectangles and text and the fact that I find free-hand drawing with mouse really difficult.
> OTOH if the plan is very simple and obvious, and can be drawn out in one go, it doesn't really need a diagram in the first place, so I skip spending time drawing the obvious stuff.
I think there's a middle ground where it might be easy to draw on one go but deciding what to draw and how things work together and what's needed requires iterations and for that, thinking through drawing and writing helps me a ton.
I never use paper because I'm always moving these bullet points around and inserting stuff between them. Apps are too slow.
I never write down all the information because these notes are enough for me to reload everything. It's pretty easy to see that I didn't write something when there's a gap in my notes. I never wrote it down because I'm going to come up with the same or better solution quickly.
This isn't really helpful for anyone else and doesn't work well with pair programming.
Nothing I have tried comes close. No iPad, writing code directly, talking it through, thinking it through, sketching it out on whatever drawing tool you might like. Pencil and paper are all I want.
Now, let's argue about our favourite colours and why teal is objectively the best.
Most notably - https://joshldavis.com/2013/05/20/the-path-to-dijkstras-hand...
Discussed - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20791049
Before personal computers, I had the same experience at the typewriter. I find it very inhibiting to have a machine staring me in the face, waiting, while I try to be creative.
Multiplayer mind mapping; idea organization; clear understanding for all; fast reorg; sequential and/or parallel flows or concepts; etc etc.
The worst part is having large calls watch me misspell things and fumble to correct it on a shared screen.
There’s a good insight in there about preserving your process of arriving at a conclusion, but it’s better done in obsidian or notion or something like that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-ZzGNQnuo8
Also love writing things on paper. I love using different pens, and write in different styles sometimes (cursive, block, normal, whatever). I just take quick throwaway notes on paper or I'll sometimes sit down and outline things for an hour over a few sheets just to put organization to some large task which I'll translate into something for consumption by others later. Almost always throw these away. Sometimes I work through a notepad, sometimes it's a little notebook, sometimes it's printer paper... getting away from the screen for a bit is lovely.
And I set up a notes section on my computer which I can pop open with a quick <space>X in ViM which has a directory structure giving me spaces for recurring meetings, architecture work, or notes on whatever initiatives I'm trying to push through. I index file names with 01-, 02- etc and if I have a section that branches out I'll just add another index so 01A-, 01B-, etc...
Having everything in ViM with a tmux conf setup that scaffolds out a ton of different spaces I've set up mnemonic keyboard shortcuts to navigate to is really helpful in reducing the overload of having Slack, IDEs, browsers, notepads, music, etc etc etc all open at once (since on a good day I just have Slack, Outlook, iTerm, Firefox and maybe Figma or Music open at most points). I'm also quick to wipe away tabs in the browser...
Next up I'm diving into Figma so I can turn these ideas into beautiful diagrams and even mock interfaces my partners can ingest visually for easier understanding of complex spaces
Finally, and I'm thankful I can afford to do this, but I turn all notification sounds off, Slack'll bounce once from the hidden dock...
It's great, distraction free, tailored to my needs, a fair amount of variety, and some really nice productive times.
But when I really need to think I upgrade to pen and paper.
Now I have a digital tablet (Supernote) on which I scribble down all the meaningless stuff throughout the day. Then I review that and anything useful or important goes into Obsidian where I can tag/search it later.
[0] https://slate.com/technology/2011/09/paper-versus-the-ipad-i...
Ex:
W22 D111 Wed May 28, 2025 (7)
The (7) means hours since I'm a contractor and I do walks/subtracts time that I fill in with PTO
I will probably get a remarkable 2 again at some point, it seems redundant if you have a tablet like device (I have a Surface Book 3) but that is rarely used funny. I used to use an RM2 a lot but had to sell it when I needed cash. It's cool that it's programmable.