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Canada has not been the greatest for individual freedoms in the last 20 years. This is another step in the authoritarian direction, and will be used to punish people for speech ultimately.

briga · 6h ago

Certainly we are not perfect, but I think overall Canada has done more for the world to uphold human rights and freedoms than otherwise. When the government does act against "individual freedom", it is usually for the good of larger society. For instance because of firearm restrictions Canadian citizens are (or used to be?) free from getting shot with firearms on the streets. Is it a perfectly free society? No, but for the most part people here have it pretty good. I'd wager most of the immigrants moving here are much more free than they were in their home countries

SilverElfin · 6h ago

> When the government does act against "individual freedom", it is usually for the good of larger society.

This line of thinking can be used to justify anything. That’s why it’s important to protect the individual and their rights, even in face of what a majority - who can be unjust - wants. And speech in particular, is so fundamental to the idea of freedom, that it should be almost absolutely protected. A constitutional guarantee of free speech and privacy is critical.

briga · 6h ago

You're posting that reply on a message board that, strictly speaking, does not have free speech. If I started flaming you my post would get removed pretty quickly. This forum is heavily moderated. Does that make it a better, or worse, place for discussion?

SilverElfin · 5h ago

It’s one among a large number of forums you can choose from, not a monopoly, with no restriction by the government, who has a monopoly on violence and the ability to take away your time or money.

briga · 5h ago

By that line of thinking, Canada is just one country you can choose to live in. Certainly people here have the choice to move to other countries that they think has more freedom. I have a hard time thinking of any other countries that entirely fit that criteria at the moment.

SilverElfin · 5h ago

You are arguing in bad faith. People as individuals, including Canadians, deserve freedom of speech, without threat of fines or jail time. Most people can’t just move to another country. They can however move to another website as an alternative to HN.

briga · 4h ago

I have never once received threats of fines or jail time for their speech, nor have any of the Canadians I know. Are you aware that freedom of opinion and expression is very clearly spelled out in the Canadian charter of rights?

dismalaf · 2h ago

Our murder rate is several times higher than European nations with less restrictive gun laws...

briga · 1h ago

And we also share an extremely long land border with the US, go figure

CommenterPerson · 6h ago

Yeah and tell me America is great at this. Where a authoritarian sacks a government official for publishing government stats. Wonderfully democratic TACO state.

SilverElfin · 6h ago

America has constitutional protections for freedom of speech, that are greater than any other country. I mean that literally. The government official was not sacked for “publishing government stats” - that is, it’s not their speech as an individual that led to their firing.

And I have no idea what you mean by “TACO state”.

yongjik · 5h ago

I think the point is, despite America having "constitutional protections for freedom of speech, that are greater than any other country," it has fallen to such a sorry state that a government officer is fired for reporting inconvenient numbers and that's not even the craziest thing the president did this week.

...which raises question on whether "freedom of speech" is the great defense against authoritarianism Americans believe it to be.

SilverElfin · 5h ago

Yes it obviously is a great defense against authoritarianism. Trump still can’t stop you as an individual in exercising your freedom of speech. A government “officer” here is just an employee (of an agency that is controlled by the president), fired for doing their job poorly (allegedly), not for speech.

watwut · 5h ago

Sorry, Americas constitutional protections are effectively a myth. There is nothing to enforce or even defend them. They are theory at best, easy to be twisted any time powerful enough person wants.

SilverElfin · 5h ago

How is it a myth? Anyone can say what they want, barring a small set of exceptions like defamation. This is enforced and defended by the legal system. It’s the opposite of what you are claiming.

watwut · 3h ago

The power of literal government agencies are used against people and organizations literally based on their speech. Literally over words.

Meanwhile, literal financial political corruption is framed as speech.

And second, give how expensive civil suits are, you not having enough money to pay layers means that slapp suits are very effective limits on free speech in practice.

chrononaut · 5h ago

Couldn't you make that argument for any law in any society?

10000truths · 5h ago

Sure, which is why the value of such a law should be judged based on how well it's enforced, and not merely how often it's espoused.

dismalaf · 6h ago

Great. Slipping freedoms and another barrier to entry for online businesses.