Incidentally the size of sockets and screws (including the Allen wrench) is very much a technology. William Sellers pushed standards in the mid 1800s specifically to benefit American industry through interoperability. Standards we still use today.
Allot of people have a social media account rather than a website and allot of people use gmail rather than host their own mail. Decentralized means do it yourself, but most people just want something with batteries included that works well and don't really care about centralization.
blooalien · 46m ago
> "Decentralized means do it yourself" ...
Not necessarily. Just one famous example; BitTorrent is decentralized but for most people it's just "run this app, download files". "Decentralized" just means "doesn't rely on a centralized service to accomplish a goal". As long as the application isn't too complex to install and use, most folks won't care one way or the other whether it's decentralized or not, as long as it accomplishes the goal they're looking to accomplish.
cramsession · 40m ago
There has to be a payoff though. BitTorrent is actually pretty hard to get working correctly, track down the torrent files... people do it because it's the only way to get some content and a way to get content you'd otherwise have to pay for. With social media, there's not much reward and most people's friends already post for free on other networks. Not saying it's not worthwhile, but it's hard to extract this lesson from BitTorrent.
blooalien · 30m ago
Yeah, for sure. Anything trying to be a social network in a properly peer-to-peer fashion would have to be as simple to use (or simpler) than existing social networks, and / or offer some genuinely unique and desirable feature(s) in order to attract any serious critical mass of users.
cramsession · 15m ago
Interestingly the original Napster was a pretty good social network! I really liked being able to browse through all of a user's shared files. We should bring something like that back.
bit1993 · 36m ago
BitTorrent is a bad example because it is mostly used for piracy. It is free but most people still use Netflix, Spotify. I don't know if this is because they dont want to not break the law with piracy.
If a decentralized solution has a centralized alternative than it is often a choice between do it your self or have someone do it for you, that is the value that the centralized solution is providing.
bawolff · 38m ago
Perhaps, but i feel like under this definition, bluesky and friends, dsspite all their talk, really does fit in the centralized camp.
blooalien · 33m ago
> ... "under this definition, bluesky and friends, dsspite all their talk, really does fit in the centralized camp."
In my mind, I put them somewhere in-between, leaning a tad more toward "centralized" because they still rely on an individual to host the service no matter how "federated" they are. Until they're truly peer-to-peer, there's still that aspect of centralization involved. We need something kinda like BitTorrent but for messaging / social connections.
alexisread · 2h ago
Decentralised here means keeping companies honest by avoiding lock-in. It's fine to have the centralisation if it's easy to switch. BlackSky users don't need to care about the details, but if they don't like the community they can move their data elsewhere. Try doing that with Instagram.
bawolff · 36m ago
I mean, facebook is pretty easy to switch from, just stop going to their website.
Personally i'm a little doubtful that bluesky is decentralized in a way that matters.
dingnuts · 2h ago
They can also liberate their identity, which is the real innovation of the AT protocol
No comments yet
didibus · 1h ago
I really like their listed user experience goals:
1. Cross-platform engagement
Create content via one platform and engage with users on other platforms.
2. Moderation choice
Voluntarily opt into moderation policies that reflect the experience you want.
3. Data portability
Data portability and credible exit are built in (you can take your data and followers with you).
4. Advertising disincentive
Portability prevents lock-in or captive audiences, which disincentivizes advertising.
5. Algorithmic choice
Users can choose the feeds and algorithms that work for them.
It's not do it yourself, it's more having more control if you want too.
bit1993 · 1h ago
The issue is only developers know the benefits of those features. Most people just want to view content or post and get their likes. That is why they use social media rather than post on their own website.
I don't think this is a technology problem, its more of a socioeconomic problem. People tend to choose the centralized option and projects that start out decentralized tend to end up centralized WWW-Social media, Email-Gmail, Git-Github, Bitcoin-Coinbase etc
binary132 · 12m ago
DNS is decentralized
Kye · 1h ago
The distinction blurs with AT protocol. My data lives on Bluesky's PDS for now, but I can log in to that PDS from anything that supports AT. Like leaflet.pub
This post is stored in Leaflet's own lexicon in its own collection right next to all my Bluesky data. I could move this to a different PDS if I wanted. I could come up with a script to turn the collection into static pages or convert them to another platform's import format.
Nobody cares about decentralization until they do[0] and AT seems to have the best answer for that eventuality.
Haven't invested time into bluesky yet but I'm always shocked at how fast the pages load. The contrast to twitter is stunning.
Lemmy is a bit more hit/miss on loads but the content posted seems so much more wholesome than other socials
the_gipsy · 41m ago
I'm shocked that it's as slow as Twitter.
There was a time when tweets were just good ol' regular HTML pages. Today it's unbearable if you remember that you're just trying to read one small paragraph.
dingnuts · 2h ago
Unlike Bluesky, which is a website and community, "Lemmy" is software. There are many Lemmy instances; the content varies wildly, just like it does between Mastodon instances, or web sites.
What instance is more wholesome? As written, your comment is like saying IRC is more wholesome. It is? On what server?
Havoc · 1h ago
I'm thinking of programming.dev in particular but suspect my wholesome comment is pretty universally true. The type of crowd that sets up their own servers like these are in my experience slightly biased towards wholesome side. Setting up software, build initial user base etc...there is a level of intent there that you don't get with the free for all that is reddit or whatever.
Maybe that's just my impression but suspect there is a kernel of truth there
Kye · 1h ago
AP instances tend to reflect the same clusters that emerge in social media where most people are on the same app.
It's just a different way of organizing communities.
sunaookami · 1h ago
Huh? Bluesky loads very slow, a lot of loading circles and placeholder skeletons.
echelon_musk · 1h ago
Maybe someone can decentralize social media so much that it finally goes offline.
devin1 · 2h ago
racial segregation but make it online
utilize1808 · 46m ago
Is it just me but I feel "social" would imply centralization. After all, if I want to socialize I will want to go where other people go, using a tool/client/channel that works for most people --- this inevitably leads to centralization.
daft_pink · 43m ago
I know right. Seems like they’re just reinventing the wordpress blog.
Pocomon · 19m ago
‘Black folks have always been huge culture drivers on social media platforms and other tech products. Systemically excluded from access to capital and distribution, Black folks leverage creativity to make social media platforms their “own” without ever having true ownership.’
I really don't get it. Who has been excluding ‘black folks’ from digital spaces. Does any of the other users of social media actually own the platform.
mrtesthah · 17m ago
Have you looked at response-Tweets on X lately?
Pocomon · 15m ago
I've opted out of social media so you will have to clue me in. (Mainly because of the trolling and the excessive moderation)
krapp · 35m ago
The more decentralized social media platforms there are, the better, but I wonder if there's a reason they didn't go with Mastodon?
adinhitlore · 1h ago
I like bluesky like...a lot but too busy recently to post there and of course, lack of engagement from my part = lack of people to actually give a f@@@ about me.
I'm worried though if it gets too big and their CEO Jay (sorry forgot the last name) turns into another evildoer Marvel villain like Zuck? I hope i won't live long enough to witness her replying with "concerning!!!" under a post "my neighbor speaks spanish".
ChrisArchitect · 1h ago
Why any of this was necessary instead of using the built-in Feeds and moderation capabilities on Bluesky is unclear. Seems like a ton of work to manage the separate server. (a similar refrain from fediverse/mastodon things) But if they're happy sure.
A rare example of another AT protocol PDS running, since most have just stuck with the Bluesky operated central one.
Kye · 1h ago
The whole impetus for the original project inside Twitter was the recognition that centralized moderation at scale is impossible without ignoring what makes different communities unique. Context collapses fast and well-intentioned moderation decisions spark huge, unending imbroglios.
kosolam · 2h ago
I didn’t understand what are these Black users that blacksky is made for? Is it about skin color wtf?
The real question is where are they. Bluesky doesn't have any black users, this is another case of liberal whites pretending to represent black people in some way in order to manipulate other white people.
"Black users" isn't about skin color, it's about a group of people who came from US slavery who the entire world is aware of and patterned their music, dancing, speaking, and any number of things after. It's as cohesive and identifiable a group of people as Poles or the Chinese, but for some reason some people get triggered by their mere existence as a distinct group with distinct concerns. If we're not distinct, why are you so good at screaming about us?
Everybody remembers when the first black stuff came to their country. The first returned immigrant who changed your popular culture by imitating things that black people were doing in the US, whether it was rock and roll, or just how to dance. You don't have to be grateful (cultural transmission is natural), but it's goofy to play blind.
That being said, bluesky 1) doesn't offer anything useful to black people, 2) it took VC (not a charity), and 3) is not decentralized.
ChrisArchitect · 1h ago
tl;dr
Blacksky is a fork of Bluesky, so running on the AT Protocol that has its own infrastructure, mod team etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Sellers
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3102001
Not necessarily. Just one famous example; BitTorrent is decentralized but for most people it's just "run this app, download files". "Decentralized" just means "doesn't rely on a centralized service to accomplish a goal". As long as the application isn't too complex to install and use, most folks won't care one way or the other whether it's decentralized or not, as long as it accomplishes the goal they're looking to accomplish.
If a decentralized solution has a centralized alternative than it is often a choice between do it your self or have someone do it for you, that is the value that the centralized solution is providing.
In my mind, I put them somewhere in-between, leaning a tad more toward "centralized" because they still rely on an individual to host the service no matter how "federated" they are. Until they're truly peer-to-peer, there's still that aspect of centralization involved. We need something kinda like BitTorrent but for messaging / social connections.
Personally i'm a little doubtful that bluesky is decentralized in a way that matters.
No comments yet
1. Cross-platform engagement
Create content via one platform and engage with users on other platforms.
2. Moderation choice
Voluntarily opt into moderation policies that reflect the experience you want.
3. Data portability
Data portability and credible exit are built in (you can take your data and followers with you).
4. Advertising disincentive
Portability prevents lock-in or captive audiences, which disincentivizes advertising.
5. Algorithmic choice
Users can choose the feeds and algorithms that work for them.
It's not do it yourself, it's more having more control if you want too.
I don't think this is a technology problem, its more of a socioeconomic problem. People tend to choose the centralized option and projects that start out decentralized tend to end up centralized WWW-Social media, Email-Gmail, Git-Github, Bitcoin-Coinbase etc
Here's a post on one of my Leaflet publications under my own domain: https://foxes.kyefox.com/3lx46ftzhhc27
This post is stored in Leaflet's own lexicon in its own collection right next to all my Bluesky data. I could move this to a different PDS if I wanted. I could come up with a script to turn the collection into static pages or convert them to another platform's import format.
Nobody cares about decentralization until they do[0] and AT seems to have the best answer for that eventuality.
[0] https://kyefox.com/nobody-cares-about-decentralization-until...
Lemmy is a bit more hit/miss on loads but the content posted seems so much more wholesome than other socials
There was a time when tweets were just good ol' regular HTML pages. Today it's unbearable if you remember that you're just trying to read one small paragraph.
What instance is more wholesome? As written, your comment is like saying IRC is more wholesome. It is? On what server?
Maybe that's just my impression but suspect there is a kernel of truth there
https://bsky.app/profile/pfrazee.com/post/3ltda4vl5322z
It's just a different way of organizing communities.
I really don't get it. Who has been excluding ‘black folks’ from digital spaces. Does any of the other users of social media actually own the platform.
I'm worried though if it gets too big and their CEO Jay (sorry forgot the last name) turns into another evildoer Marvel villain like Zuck? I hope i won't live long enough to witness her replying with "concerning!!!" under a post "my neighbor speaks spanish".
A rare example of another AT protocol PDS running, since most have just stuck with the Bluesky operated central one.
"Black users" isn't about skin color, it's about a group of people who came from US slavery who the entire world is aware of and patterned their music, dancing, speaking, and any number of things after. It's as cohesive and identifiable a group of people as Poles or the Chinese, but for some reason some people get triggered by their mere existence as a distinct group with distinct concerns. If we're not distinct, why are you so good at screaming about us?
Everybody remembers when the first black stuff came to their country. The first returned immigrant who changed your popular culture by imitating things that black people were doing in the US, whether it was rock and roll, or just how to dance. You don't have to be grateful (cultural transmission is natural), but it's goofy to play blind.
That being said, bluesky 1) doesn't offer anything useful to black people, 2) it took VC (not a charity), and 3) is not decentralized.
Blacksky is a fork of Bluesky, so running on the AT Protocol that has its own infrastructure, mod team etc.