There was a pretty good Kurzgesagt video posted earlier today on alcohol in general: https://youtu.be/aOwmt39L2IQ
The shift in perception of alcohol is certainly a good sign. Even outside of the health benefits, a night out at the bar is expensive now (at least on the East Coast) and honestly speaking other drugs are simply more cost-effective. I still have the occasional cocktail when going out with friends but now that I'm focused more on my overall fitness I find less of a reason to drink now. Still love the vibe of bars and pubs though.
Anecdotally knowing that club drugs like ketamine and 2c-b are gaining popularity, I wonder whether young people may be turning onto substances like those now or if in general Gen-Z prefers to abstain entirely.
chiffre01 · 1h ago
Anecdotally it seems like alcohol is being replaced with weed or other things. But it doesn't bode well for the future of mental health if social drinking is being replaced with solo drug use or just solo everything.
taeric · 1h ago
Yeah, I have a hard time thinking this is specifically a good thing. A better relationship with drinking is not something to argue against, of course. But I find the dysfunction in so many people that take a strong stance against it rather hard to ignore, as well.
thewebguyd · 1h ago
> being replaced with solo drug use or just solo everything.
Solo everything is definitely happening. People are getting priced out, and the third place (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place) has pretty much disappeared everywhere.
Gen Z is considered the loneliest generation, and its easy to see why. COVID messed things up too, and there's a lot of kids and young adults that have not been properly socialized.
And since you have to spend, increasingly large amounts, of money just to go out with friends, people will just stay home instead. Maybe that looks like chatting on discord while playing a game together, but increasingly its looking like solo activities.
atsushin · 1h ago
The lack of IRL 'third places' for young people to meet locally will only exacerbate the issue -- and probably should bear most of the blame. The car-centric infrastructure of the suburbs (well, the vast majority of America) encourages isolation and asocial behavior. It really sucks that for some, their lives will never go beyond that invisible cage.
epolanski · 1h ago
I think you have a point. While I drink mostly in company, and rarely if ever alone, I do consume weed mostly alone.
Also, as it makes me tired, it also makes me less incline to go out and meet people.
Those, and other reasons generally push me against consuming it more than few times an year.
weinzierl · 1h ago
Quite to the contrary. A big part of alcohol use is group pressure. Much better for everyone if people enjoy their drugs alone.
OkayPhysicist · 1h ago
The entire upside of alcohol use is social lubrication. Frankly, I think our society could benefit from a bit more peer pressure.
littlexsparkee · 1h ago
You can get the social upside with adaptogens which are increasingly showing up in canned drinks or drinking kava with friends. Alcohol doesn't have a monopoly on that.
OkayPhysicist · 1h ago
We could, but we don't. Alcohol currently has a defacto monopoly on lubricated social spaces. Distant second is nicotine. Nothing else comes anywhere close.
amanaplanacanal · 1h ago
if. Other drug use can be just as social as alcohol consumption.
OkayPhysicist · 1h ago
Since opium dens fell out of favor, the only psychoactive substances that have dedicated social spaces are booze (bars, nightclubs) and nicotine (hookah lounges, cigar clubs). This could change, but it hasn't yet. It sure seems like society's just swinging antisocial.
oldmanhorton · 1h ago
And also, a decent chunk of alcohol consumption must be solo? I'd bet alcohol is broadly more social, but I would also wonder if that would change if more public gathering places served weed in some form.
zamalek · 1h ago
> night out at the bar is expensive now
"They" will make it cheaper. If you look at the cost of alcohol in developing countries, it can be wayWAY cheaper. The profit and tax margins are currently colossal, both of which can be changed by big booze.
OkayPhysicist · 1h ago
Substance use is dropping precipitously, because partying and socialization writ large are dropping. The people who party are still drinking, they're really not the ones driving these decreases.
Alcohol's primary purpose in our society is as a social lubricant. It both lowers inhibitions, and in the expectation of its doing so creates spaces with freer acceptable behavior. Cannabis doesn't currently fill that niche, because there aren't really spaces dedicated to its consumption.
littlexsparkee · 1h ago
Well, with edibles, mints, drinks - does there need to be? There are lounges opening in some cities like Oakland, SF but that's an emerging thing depending on openness to changing zoning.
OkayPhysicist · 1h ago
Dedicated spaces to consuming social lubricants naturally are social spaces. Losing them would be a dramatic blow to the entire concept of social life.
littlexsparkee · 1h ago
Yeah, I agree with you. I'm just saying someone could take a 5mg THC mint and then grab a beer at a bar to be social. My point is that weed can be social in any third place, whether or not it's dedicated to it.
dmonitor · 44m ago
> and then grab a beer at a bar to be social
I feel like you're missing the point. The bar a necessary part of the equation because alcohol has a social monopoly on physical locations.
socalgal2 · 1h ago
> The shift in perception of alcohol is certainly a good sign.
Is it? That same video, in the last 2-3 mins, mentioned all the positives of alcohol and ton of possibly related fallout from social drinking going down. People being lonely and depressed instead of socializing.
If I had to choose between living an extra few years but being lonely and depressed vs living a few less years but enjoying them a bunch more I'd choose the enjoyment.
I get that *maybe* that can happen without the alcohol but it's not happening and my experience is that alcohol is a net positive at the moment, until some substitute appears.
Also, different cultures have different associations with alcohol. My opinions on alcohol changed over my life:
As a child my parents offered me a sip of wine/beer/etc and it tasted horrible so I had no interest.
As a teen I happened to get interested in a religion that said "no alcohol" and so I saw it as a bad thing.
As a 20-25 I gave up the religion but it was "designated driver" time and I was happy to be that and so alcohol had this negative "drunk drivers" association.
Around 26-30 I got in a relationship with some who liked to drink socially. I tried it, nothing tasted good and it gave me a headache so after a few months I went back to not drinking as i got nothing positive out of it.
As 30 something I moved to Japan where (1) I no longer had to drive so no worries about drunk driving (2) my friends/co-workers/classmates introduced me to izakaya culture - being with friends for 2-6 hours, drinking and snacking and talking. And sometimes going to 2nd, 3rd, or 4th outings. Now, love that experience and I wouldn't give it up for almost anything. I love being with my friends, and, as the video pointed out, the alcohol works. The experience is different than without alcohol, and in a positive way. Remove it and it's influences and I think the experience would die out. I certainly don't like the negative health effects but I'm not going to give up hanging out with friends and the drinking, for me, is a positive part of that experience.
Here's a talk about how alcohol helped civilization
> my friends/co-workers/classmates introduced me to izakaya culture - being with friends for 2-6 hours, drinking and snacking and talking. And sometimes going to 2nd, 3rd, or 4th outings.
There must be something I'm not understanding about "izakaya culture", because that just sounds like hanging with friends without a specific activity planned so you just talk shit, have a drink and eat (whether at home or different places around town), maybe someone breaks out a pack of cards?
staplers · 1h ago
NA beers and cocktails are becoming more common at bars and restaurants, which helps dramatically if you are shifting lifestyles.
You can still go out with friends and enjoy festivities while "blending in". People are often more caged if they're drinking and you're not and that subtle camouflage can help alleviate that social awkwardness.
Mashimo · 1h ago
I really like the trend. It is getting more acceptable to not drink.
I'm a party drinker, but whenever I see someone who does not drink he gets bombarded with "why not?" "You just did not have the right kind of beer yet" "just one?" and that is incredible sad.
Sadly social gatherings such as "meetups with friends" and "attendance at parties" is also dropping :( Kurzgesagt just had a video about alcohol and the social aspect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOwmt39L2IQ
Edit: Oh, and the trend for non-alcohol wine and beer is also a big plus.
coffeecoders · 1h ago
Meanwhile daily or near-daily marijuana use has increased by 269% from 2008 to 2022.[1]
I wonder how much of that is honesty in reporting? No doubt the wave of legalization has increase usage massively, but I sure as shit wouldn't have told a random poll in the 2010s about my illegal marijuana use. I didn't even tell my doctor for fear of it ending up in a chart somewhere.
altairprime · 1h ago
It’s a more effective misery suppressant per dollar than a drink, and is much less likely to result in humiliating or violent outbursts when overconsumed. Little surprise it’s supplanted booze, then, when fewer each year can afford the romanticism of a cocktail bar.
taeric · 1h ago
No doubt it is not a 100% accurate poll. But hard to think it hasn't gone up? If only from the legal sales numbers.
More, you'd be surprised at how many people would have told pollsters, even in 2010s, that they were doing things like this.
bediger4000 · 1h ago
> you'd be surprised at how many people would have told pollsters
Yeah, when my son was in middle school, they ran a poll. I was surprised by how many kids at his school had artificial limbs. Terrible carnage, just terrible.
softwaredoug · 1h ago
Well we are leaving a massive microbrewery/winery bubble where everyone had a cousin opening a brewery in the 2010s. At the same time marijuana usage is slowly becoming legal. So I might expect the relative change to be quite large.
strangescript · 1h ago
shh, you are going to upset people that think drinking is evil and cutting it has no draw backs
toomuchtodo · 1h ago
No deaths have ever been reported from an overdose on Marijuana [1], and about 10k people a year die from DUI deaths in the US [2]. There is no safe level of alcohol consumption [3] [4]. There is strong evidence alcohol use leads to cancer [5].
So what's the safe level of driving on Marijuana? If people just switch from one drug to another that's no improvement.
nerdjon · 1h ago
I do wish that this was something talked about more, I know there have been studies supposedly showing there is not a correlation but that doesn't make any sense to me. I know there have been several times that I have been stoned enough that I would not want to drive.
Doesn't mean it should not be legal or anything, but I also don't think we should disregard it.
>It's impossible to overdose on Marijuana, and about 10k people a year die from DUI deaths in the US.
It's definitely possible to overdose on edible marijuana, and it's not even that difficult to do.
toomuchtodo · 1h ago
Comment was edited to reflect no reports of death from overdose. You might have an unpleasant experience, but you aren't going to die.
linotype · 1h ago
It’s not evil, it’s just bad for you. A 5 mg edible a couple times a month is going to be a way better for someone than drinking multiple times a week.
mrtksn · 1h ago
Hence the virginity rates. Weed replacing alcohol is a tragedy. Lonelier people in healthier bodies with rotting brains.
amanaplanacanal · 1h ago
Alcohol causes more brain damage than cannabis, if that's what you are talking about. And I doubt lowering inhibitions so that people have sex they wouldn't normally have had seems... Bad.
On the other hand, if this was supposed to be funny, carry on!
mrtksn · 1h ago
Who cares, the civilization came to this point with the damage. Young people need to stop being brain damage-free lonely sad antisocial virgins who hate the world and everything. Get the brain damage have the healthy society.
OneMorePerson · 44m ago
This is not a direct response to this article, but related to the topic of not drinking. I'm usually a follower of the latest data and such but I am highly skeptical of all the recent news about how drinking isn't safe in any quantity.
The latest data can be wrong. No different than how there was a period of time where UV light was considered this evil to avoid, and now we know it's actually pretty critical to get sunlight in moderation (and completely avoiding UV causes its own issues). This seems to be a problem with US health science where they will find something bad like partially hydrogenated fats (a terrible man made substance), and then go on to claim "fats are bad" (this is back in the 90s ish). The health system just ignored the long history of diets that were relatively high in fats (actual good natural fats), and tried to use "data". Ultimately data is only as good as our ability to measure, which is limited with something like the human body. That overcorrection has since come back to a more reasonable middle point but still has some issues.
It's undisputed that drinking a lot of alcohol is bad for you, but I don't see clear data for the grey area. If I fed a rat a whole bunch of vinegar day after day in large quantities it would get health problems, yet drinking a bit of apple cider vinegar, salt and vinegar chips, etc. are all fine, likely beneficial (pickled vegetables are good for you).
I'm not saying that there's any proof that alcohol is beneficial yet, but the lack of clear data for that grey area of risk is interesting. In Japan for example it's believed that drinking sake in moderate quantities has health benefits.
I guess going back to the sunlight analogy, it's hard to believe that a substance that has been around as long as alcohol has could be so toxic that occasional consumption has any meaningful negative effect.
tokioyoyo · 1h ago
A good chunk of my “fun and memorable nights” involved going out for a drink with friends/meeting new people at the bar. It’s very good if the younger generation is consuming less alcohol, but unless they’re replacing the social-aspect of it with something similar, I pity them. Unfortunately, looking at the data, it shows that people are just lonelier and hang out in social circles even less.
Obviously there are problems with over-consumption, and addiction. However, what is life, if not a large collection of your memories?
softwaredoug · 1h ago
The NA beers out there have become quite good. Athletic brewing timed the market really well.
majora2007 · 15m ago
This is my go to. I hope it becomes cheaper though.
gwbas1c · 1h ago
I recently had a cardiologist wag her finger at me and tell me that recent data pretty much demonstrates that there really isn't any healthy amount of alcohol to consume.
20 years ago, when "1 drink a day is healthiest" was all over the news, I said cheers and picked up the habit. It's kind of hard to break, considering that I really, really enjoy the flavor of alcoholic beverages. Alcohol, as a solvent, allows for flavor profiles that just water don't allow.
moi2388 · 42m ago
Reply to her that this is only true for populations, not individuals.
Plenty of people who drink age well and plenty of people who don’t drink don’t age well.
Statistics say something about aggregates, not individual data points
littlexsparkee · 1h ago
Found myself cutting back, too. I drink beer and usually have 1-2 at a time - any more and the flavors just get muddled. It's water, tea, coffee for me most of the time (added benefit of polyphenols, antioxidants for those brewed drinks). If I drank more, I would be too worried about handicapping my intellect.
jauntywundrkind · 1h ago
I love tea, but because of the caffeine I think of it as a morning/afternoon enjoyment.
It'd be lovely to have more evening refreshments. I have various mixers for seltzer water, which helps. Also just drinking less liquids at night probably helps some with sleeping in general but I really like having something to sip on.
doublepg23 · 26m ago
I’ve been making cold brew tea during this summer and sipping on that.
3-4 decaf black tea bags for a body, 2 or so random herbal teas for flavor all tossed in a large tea jug in the fridge overnight.
littlexsparkee · 1h ago
There's always tisanes like rooibos and herbs (mint, etc). I read that with regular consumption of caffeine you don't tend to notice it anymore (sensitivity aside) which has been my experience. It helps my workouts and getting up but I've never felt like I needed it or it keeps me up (still try to not have it past 3 or 4pm). Agree on tapering liquids near bedtime.
dskrenta · 1h ago
I love drinking Rooibos at night as a replacement for tea, highly recommend. Various flavored options available too.
jsbisviewtiful · 1h ago
I'd be curious to see a breakdown of this data by location/market and with sales data instead of a poll. I have a friend who works in the alcohol distribution industry and he's refuted these kinds of claims multiple times, but he also lives in a midwest state where there's not much to do but eat and drink so perhaps it's all relative.
tptacek · 1h ago
Nightlife customer patronage is way down post-pandemic, to the point where some very famous bars in Chicago (Twisted Spoke, Violet Hour) have shut down. To the extent nightlife drinking was a major component of US alcohol consumption, that may explain much of the drop.
There was a study a few years ago showing that there might not be a safe number of drinks per day.
That sort of thing makes a difference as the knowledge percolates through society.
throwmeaway222 · 1h ago
i like my mind clear 100% of the time
suddenlybananas · 1h ago
I like booze and I think social drinking is good for society.
littlexsparkee · 1h ago
It's good to have 3rd places to meet folks and bars can offer low/no alc. options to broaden their base in light of these changing habits. Locally, I'm seeing Yemeni coffee places open up where people go to hang out - helps that they're often open to midnight.
lagniappe · 1h ago
Casinos are also seeing a similar drop
bdcravens · 1h ago
I can only speak to my personal experience, in Vegas, but the electronic machines have become pretty unfriendly to casual players who just want to enjoy themselves. Gone are the true 1-25 cent machines, replaced with games that pretty much require you to wager dollars at a time. Plus Vegas has gotten more entertainment oriented over time, so that the casinos really aren't that interesting anymore. The trend away from smoking probably plays a role, with few casino floors being smoke-free.
Analemma_ · 1h ago
That's not a positive development: it's because casinos are getting replaced by sports betting on your phone, which is much much worse.
wcunning · 1h ago
Also they've been bought out by private equity an prices have shot through the roof -- Vegas is seeing massive downturns in tourism and from my cursory following of the problem, it's all price increases on food, booze, travel, hotels on the Strip making people uninterested in going.
trollski · 1h ago
dont forget the casinoization of the stock market
dlachausse · 1h ago
I think it’s also the lack of disposable income to gamble with.
tokioyoyo · 1h ago
“Why gamble in Vegas, when you can do it from your phone in NYC?”.
There’s a significant devaluation of “in-person fun”, and it’s sad to see.
FirmwareBurner · 1h ago
Why go to a casino to loose money, when you can loose money betting on Polymarket/Crypto online from your phone anywhere you are?
andrewclunn · 1h ago
Maybe on the coasts, but I can tell you that here in the mid-West, booze is still going strong.
tptacek · 1h ago
I don't think this is true, at least not in Chicago.
tartoran · 1h ago
THC is the new Ethanol
mrtksn · 1h ago
Such a sad development, Young people need to drink more and socialize. No wonder the virginity rates are skyrocketing. You don't get into situations by getting stoned at home.
Sure it is bad for your body but when used in moderation the benefits are much much more than that risk. What a scam the weed culture is. Maybe we should ban it again together with the social media to save the birth rates and the society in general.
alcyone · 1h ago
IDK if you're kidding, but I think you're right. Bar prices are a problem for sure. Beers at a bar cost $5 - $10 each, but a joint is just $2. Drinking and driving is a huge problem for people in the 'burbs and simply not worth the risk.
mrtksn · 1h ago
Why people are acting like alcohol wasn't the substance that got people laid and socialize for thousands of years? Of course I'm not kidding. Not going out and getting a few beers a few times a week is destroying the society.
Gunax · 25m ago
We will all live long, safe, and boring lives
Barrin92 · 1h ago
Yup. Hitchens was pretty prophetic about this when he wrote his "in defense of teenage drinking" piece 30 years ago.
Now you have an entire generation of permanently in therapy pill poppers or weed smoking loners. An entire cohort of Biedermeiers, bores and shut-ins. Here in Germany where the drinking age is 16 it was always funny to see US expats let loose when they realized that teenagers can legally drink and don't need to do it secretly
These days you have people in their mid 20s watching 10 hours per day of right-wing influencers online because they can't talk to women instead of going to a party and getting drunk and laid. It's honestly no surprise the world's craziest autocrats tend to be teetotalers, it's how you breed yourself an army of frustrated followers
mrtksn · 45m ago
True. Trump is also a teetotaler and he definitely needs a drink sometimes.
throwmeaway222 · 1h ago
super bad faith that this is downvoted without comments
bdcravens · 1h ago
Especially when you consider this user's profile:
"Sometimes I will say things I don't actually believe so we can have a more lively debate."
mrtksn · 1h ago
I do actually believe that weed replacing alcohol as drug of choice is destroying the social fabric of the society.
What's so controversial about it? What is the last time when a joint got someone laid or made friends?
amanaplanacanal · 1h ago
Lots of people are able to get laid and make friends without alcohol. If there is a person who can't, I think it says more about them than about alcohol.
mrtksn · 1h ago
Lot's of people get white collar jobs without going to college, this doesn't mean that college doesn't help.
lagniappe · 1h ago
>What is the last time when a joint got someone laid or made friends?
Surely you jest..
leptons · 1h ago
If you need alcohol to get laid or make friends then I feel very sorry for you. Most people I know got laid in high school (sometimes actually inside the school), without any alcohol involved at all. We also made plenty of friends. YMMV, I guess. I suppose some people are only likable if other people are drunk? I generally avoid those kinds of people no matter how inebriated I am.
mrtksn · 58m ago
I'm happy that people you know got laid in high school but loneliness has become society destroying epidemic and your friends that are getting laid are not doing enough to save the fertility rates.
The strange tone in your writing reminds me of Dinesh from the Silicon Valley series :) I'm sure you are one of the cool ones with the good hairstyle who doesn't need alcohol unlike the lesser people haha.
Alcohol is not about being so drunk that you do degenerate stuff and fuck people you don't like. It's about easing the social anxieties and improving the mood together with a good company and some music.
leptons · 17m ago
Since you think you know me, I'll just say that your social skills suck if you need to be intoxicated to do anything. It seems like your parents failed you.
But you don't know me and no, I don't have "a good hairstyle", and no, I'm not "one of the cool ones". I'm just as average as anyone.
"fertility rates" and people getting laid are two very different things. People don't have sex only to produce offspring.
And the world could use a lot less people anyway, so I don't see it as a bad thing if fertility rates drop, no matter the cause, even if the drop is significant. The world will be fine with a billion or two less people, in fact it may just improve some situations.
charcircuit · 1h ago
Water exists and is much healthier, cheaper, and tastier than many other drinks. It's just a shame so many restaurants ruin it by putting ice in it and chilling it.
subjectsigma · 1h ago
Why even post this?
charcircuit · 1h ago
Because I have never had the desire to buy alcohol since there is a superior alternative. I am providing context on why me and many others are contributing to the fall of the statistic.
Larrikin · 1h ago
Then post it on your blog, nobody actually wants your thoughts on why you think you're superior for not enjoying one of the most common beverages in human history.
charcircuit · 1h ago
Posting about not drinking alcohol in a thread about not drinking alcohol is on topic. Don't enter such a thread if you don't want to see such comments.
nerdjon · 1h ago
I mean... I am not drinking alcohol because I am thirsty...
Often I have both in front of me. It isnt a one or the other situation.
dlachausse · 1h ago
You can always ask your server for room temperature water as long as you’re okay with drinking tap.
cpursley · 1h ago
You're getting downvoted, but most of the time I prefer room temperature water.
ramenmeal · 1h ago
probably downvoted because it doesn't really add to the conversation.
mmsc · 1h ago
I think what will happen in the future is that the people that drink, will be drinking way more; while the people that rarely drink, will more rarely drink.
The shift in perception of alcohol is certainly a good sign. Even outside of the health benefits, a night out at the bar is expensive now (at least on the East Coast) and honestly speaking other drugs are simply more cost-effective. I still have the occasional cocktail when going out with friends but now that I'm focused more on my overall fitness I find less of a reason to drink now. Still love the vibe of bars and pubs though.
Anecdotally knowing that club drugs like ketamine and 2c-b are gaining popularity, I wonder whether young people may be turning onto substances like those now or if in general Gen-Z prefers to abstain entirely.
Solo everything is definitely happening. People are getting priced out, and the third place (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place) has pretty much disappeared everywhere.
Gen Z is considered the loneliest generation, and its easy to see why. COVID messed things up too, and there's a lot of kids and young adults that have not been properly socialized.
And since you have to spend, increasingly large amounts, of money just to go out with friends, people will just stay home instead. Maybe that looks like chatting on discord while playing a game together, but increasingly its looking like solo activities.
Also, as it makes me tired, it also makes me less incline to go out and meet people.
Those, and other reasons generally push me against consuming it more than few times an year.
"They" will make it cheaper. If you look at the cost of alcohol in developing countries, it can be way WAY cheaper. The profit and tax margins are currently colossal, both of which can be changed by big booze.
Alcohol's primary purpose in our society is as a social lubricant. It both lowers inhibitions, and in the expectation of its doing so creates spaces with freer acceptable behavior. Cannabis doesn't currently fill that niche, because there aren't really spaces dedicated to its consumption.
I feel like you're missing the point. The bar a necessary part of the equation because alcohol has a social monopoly on physical locations.
Is it? That same video, in the last 2-3 mins, mentioned all the positives of alcohol and ton of possibly related fallout from social drinking going down. People being lonely and depressed instead of socializing.
If I had to choose between living an extra few years but being lonely and depressed vs living a few less years but enjoying them a bunch more I'd choose the enjoyment.
I get that *maybe* that can happen without the alcohol but it's not happening and my experience is that alcohol is a net positive at the moment, until some substitute appears.
Also, different cultures have different associations with alcohol. My opinions on alcohol changed over my life:
As a child my parents offered me a sip of wine/beer/etc and it tasted horrible so I had no interest.
As a teen I happened to get interested in a religion that said "no alcohol" and so I saw it as a bad thing.
As a 20-25 I gave up the religion but it was "designated driver" time and I was happy to be that and so alcohol had this negative "drunk drivers" association.
Around 26-30 I got in a relationship with some who liked to drink socially. I tried it, nothing tasted good and it gave me a headache so after a few months I went back to not drinking as i got nothing positive out of it.
As 30 something I moved to Japan where (1) I no longer had to drive so no worries about drunk driving (2) my friends/co-workers/classmates introduced me to izakaya culture - being with friends for 2-6 hours, drinking and snacking and talking. And sometimes going to 2nd, 3rd, or 4th outings. Now, love that experience and I wouldn't give it up for almost anything. I love being with my friends, and, as the video pointed out, the alcohol works. The experience is different than without alcohol, and in a positive way. Remove it and it's influences and I think the experience would die out. I certainly don't like the negative health effects but I'm not going to give up hanging out with friends and the drinking, for me, is a positive part of that experience.
Here's a talk about how alcohol helped civilization
https://longnow.org/talks/02022-slingerland/
There must be something I'm not understanding about "izakaya culture", because that just sounds like hanging with friends without a specific activity planned so you just talk shit, have a drink and eat (whether at home or different places around town), maybe someone breaks out a pack of cards?
You can still go out with friends and enjoy festivities while "blending in". People are often more caged if they're drinking and you're not and that subtle camouflage can help alleviate that social awkwardness.
I'm a party drinker, but whenever I see someone who does not drink he gets bombarded with "why not?" "You just did not have the right kind of beer yet" "just one?" and that is incredible sad.
Sadly social gatherings such as "meetups with friends" and "attendance at parties" is also dropping :( Kurzgesagt just had a video about alcohol and the social aspect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOwmt39L2IQ
Edit: Oh, and the trend for non-alcohol wine and beer is also a big plus.
[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/611714/marijuana-use-dur...
More, you'd be surprised at how many people would have told pollsters, even in 2010s, that they were doing things like this.
Yeah, when my son was in middle school, they ran a poll. I was surprised by how many kids at his school had artificial limbs. Terrible carnage, just terrible.
[1] https://www.dea.gov/factsheets/marijuana
[2] https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving
[3] https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/04-01-2023-no-level-of-...
[4] https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.10.21256931v...
[5] https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/a...
Doesn't mean it should not be legal or anything, but I also don't think we should disregard it.
Medical cannabis and automobile accidents: Evidence from auto insurance - https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/hec.4553 | https://doi.org/10.1002/hec.4553
It's definitely possible to overdose on edible marijuana, and it's not even that difficult to do.
On the other hand, if this was supposed to be funny, carry on!
The latest data can be wrong. No different than how there was a period of time where UV light was considered this evil to avoid, and now we know it's actually pretty critical to get sunlight in moderation (and completely avoiding UV causes its own issues). This seems to be a problem with US health science where they will find something bad like partially hydrogenated fats (a terrible man made substance), and then go on to claim "fats are bad" (this is back in the 90s ish). The health system just ignored the long history of diets that were relatively high in fats (actual good natural fats), and tried to use "data". Ultimately data is only as good as our ability to measure, which is limited with something like the human body. That overcorrection has since come back to a more reasonable middle point but still has some issues.
It's undisputed that drinking a lot of alcohol is bad for you, but I don't see clear data for the grey area. If I fed a rat a whole bunch of vinegar day after day in large quantities it would get health problems, yet drinking a bit of apple cider vinegar, salt and vinegar chips, etc. are all fine, likely beneficial (pickled vegetables are good for you).
I'm not saying that there's any proof that alcohol is beneficial yet, but the lack of clear data for that grey area of risk is interesting. In Japan for example it's believed that drinking sake in moderate quantities has health benefits.
I guess going back to the sunlight analogy, it's hard to believe that a substance that has been around as long as alcohol has could be so toxic that occasional consumption has any meaningful negative effect.
Obviously there are problems with over-consumption, and addiction. However, what is life, if not a large collection of your memories?
20 years ago, when "1 drink a day is healthiest" was all over the news, I said cheers and picked up the habit. It's kind of hard to break, considering that I really, really enjoy the flavor of alcoholic beverages. Alcohol, as a solvent, allows for flavor profiles that just water don't allow.
Plenty of people who drink age well and plenty of people who don’t drink don’t age well.
Statistics say something about aggregates, not individual data points
It'd be lovely to have more evening refreshments. I have various mixers for seltzer water, which helps. Also just drinking less liquids at night probably helps some with sleeping in general but I really like having something to sip on.
3-4 decaf black tea bags for a body, 2 or so random herbal teas for flavor all tossed in a large tea jug in the fridge overnight.
That sort of thing makes a difference as the knowledge percolates through society.
There’s a significant devaluation of “in-person fun”, and it’s sad to see.
Sure it is bad for your body but when used in moderation the benefits are much much more than that risk. What a scam the weed culture is. Maybe we should ban it again together with the social media to save the birth rates and the society in general.
Now you have an entire generation of permanently in therapy pill poppers or weed smoking loners. An entire cohort of Biedermeiers, bores and shut-ins. Here in Germany where the drinking age is 16 it was always funny to see US expats let loose when they realized that teenagers can legally drink and don't need to do it secretly
These days you have people in their mid 20s watching 10 hours per day of right-wing influencers online because they can't talk to women instead of going to a party and getting drunk and laid. It's honestly no surprise the world's craziest autocrats tend to be teetotalers, it's how you breed yourself an army of frustrated followers
"Sometimes I will say things I don't actually believe so we can have a more lively debate."
What's so controversial about it? What is the last time when a joint got someone laid or made friends?
Surely you jest..
The strange tone in your writing reminds me of Dinesh from the Silicon Valley series :) I'm sure you are one of the cool ones with the good hairstyle who doesn't need alcohol unlike the lesser people haha.
Alcohol is not about being so drunk that you do degenerate stuff and fuck people you don't like. It's about easing the social anxieties and improving the mood together with a good company and some music.
But you don't know me and no, I don't have "a good hairstyle", and no, I'm not "one of the cool ones". I'm just as average as anyone.
"fertility rates" and people getting laid are two very different things. People don't have sex only to produce offspring.
And the world could use a lot less people anyway, so I don't see it as a bad thing if fertility rates drop, no matter the cause, even if the drop is significant. The world will be fine with a billion or two less people, in fact it may just improve some situations.
Often I have both in front of me. It isnt a one or the other situation.