Trump Just Militarized the Capital — What Comes Next?
Well, this will be unpopular as [edit: some] of my comments are here ... but ... hopefully rinse and repeat in the rest of the big cities that have given up on enforcing laws and in effect have decriminalized crime. If states and cities can't keep people safe then unfortunately the national guard will have to step in. I do not envy those in the national and state guards as only handfuls of them are trained for this. I predict there will be some ugly mistakes and mishaps that may escalate some incidents.
[Edit] Thread is flagged. Will continue discussion on the next one.
ysavir · 2h ago
What's your take on the article saying that D.C.'s crime rate is at a 30 year low? Do you feel that things in big cities are so bad that an overreach of powers is justified in an attempt to fix it?
Bender · 2h ago
What's your take on the article saying that D.C.'s crime rate is at a 30 year low?
I do not believe crime is accurately tracked [1]. Calling in the guard is not overreach when a city is demanding it through inaction.
Thanks for sharing the link, I hadn't seen that before! Very serious allegations there.
> Calling in the guard is not overreach when a city is demanding it through inaction.
Is the city calling for protection, though? There's a big difference between police departments fabricating data and a need for intervention, whether through taking control of the city police or bringing in the national guard. What's the actual situation? Why is the Trump administration militarizing the city instead of running statistics to get actual crime numbers?
daft_pink · 1h ago
People in this thread are focusing on change in crime instead of the total rate of crime. The bottom line is that total crime in Washington DC is one of the highest among states and cities and is a clear outlier.
chaps · 1h ago
So you think it's justified?
lefstathiou · 1h ago
Is crime down because they are safer or because police have been told to stand down or see no point if the perp walks free an hour later?
Bottom line, I am skeptical. Cities all over have de-criminalized crime, which makes the statistics untrustworthy.
chaps · 2h ago
Do you think that crime is "on the rise"?
Bender · 2h ago
I think that crime is not recognized or tracked in some cities. This is a problem in the USA. Canada is not having these issues in big cities as they have zero tolerance for violent crime.
thePhytochemist · 17m ago
Gun control is the main reason we have less violent crime in Canada. There is still violent crime here though, it's not a safe wonderland.
There is often impunity given to certain people for serious but nonviolent crime like identity theft and selling schedule 1 narcotics (the most illegal kind of drug in Canada). They simply keep what they steal or the profit and are allowed to carry on even if there is clear proof in possession by law enforcement. I don't think an authoritarian response is really what we need but it does make a mockery of the criminal system when this is the policy. And the damage is real, with the victims left to just put the pieces back together on their own.
jhanschoo · 1h ago
What personal experiences, reporting, or studies have led you to this belief? If you have them easily available, please share them so that they can convince others reading your comment as well.
chaps · 2h ago
Let me ask a different question.
Do you think violent crime is on the rise?
Bender · 1h ago
Do you think violent crime is on the rise?
Nobody knows the real answer to this. Rather cities have become violent over time and criminals are released shortly after their violent crimes. The general public is well aware of this and why there is a non-partisan rise in home and self defense purchases.
atmavatar · 45m ago
> Rather cities have become violent over time and criminals are released shortly after their violent crimes.
Do you have evidence for this? Literally your prior sentence says no one knows, but now you're making a concrete claim that not only is violent crime on the rise, but that we're releasing criminals shortly thereafter.
Citation needed.
All crime statistics I've seen indicate that violent crime has been on a steady decline for decades. If you have a credible source with data that refutes this, then by all means, please provide a link to it.
> The general public is well aware of this and why there is a non-partisan rise in home and self defense purchases.
This doesn't really mean anything. It is no surprise that the perception of peril is at an all time high, given reporting on violent crime has dramatically increased over time, especially on right-leaning media. When there isn't anything sufficiently terrifying to report, stuff gets made up (e.g., immigrants eating pets).
A fearful audience is more engaged, but perhaps more importantly, a fearful public is easier to manipulate.
chaps · 1h ago
Couple more questions:
1. "Nobody knows the real answer to this." Including you?
2. Do you think, specifically for argumentation, that Chicago is going up or down in its murder rates?
rolph · 1h ago
thats relative, it would be more enlightening to look at who is commiting what types of crime at what rate, then you would have useful information rather than a stark single metric of crime count.
i.e. type and freq of crime cross with income and/or occupation.
chaps · 51m ago
The question wasn't asked to extract enlightenment. This person in particular does not trust statistics, so the question is aimed at understanding the edges of their lack of trust through Socratic-questioning. Like, I fundamentally disagree with everything they're saying and suggesting, but they're absolutely right that "crime statistics" are garbage and uncollected[1]. But their belief is so confident that crime in DC is so rampant that they feel that it's okay to send the national guard. That confidence comes from somewhere, so I'm trying to ink it out.
Military occupation as a solution to a crime problem that either doesn't exist (if you believe the statistics) or is unknown and unknowable (if you don't) seems like a very bad thing. Advocating for military occupation under these circumstances seems like you've got some other motivation than tough on crime.
happytoexplain · 1h ago
I too want us to get much harsher on crime, but I think it's naive to portray Trump's use of force as anything but a boot on the throat of dissidents and protesters, an authoritarian show of force, a purposeful provocation of his political enemies in an attempt to escalate, etc. I.e. not an honest reaction to crime statistics, obviously. That would mean reform, not ephemeral military takeover.
happytoexplain · 1h ago
>most of my comments
I clicked through five pages of your comment history and only saw one other grey comment besides this one (I have show-dead enabled).
I suggest not doing the whole "this will get downvoted, but..." thing. It creates a tone of "I'm the underdog, who knows the uncomfortable truth".
Bender · 1h ago
I get dog-piled when a post is active but yes over time people come back and it usually levels out. I am not complaining at all. It's more of a disclaimer that I might trigger someone. I edited my comment to say some.
lefstathiou · 1h ago
Agreed, I can't wait. It's this or they should install facial recognition cameras with social credit scores. Either way, something needs to happen.
Not an exaggeration, I witness some physical escalation 3 out of 5 days a week between Union Square and Midtown NYC on my daily commute. 10 minutes ago a delivery guy and a pedestrian got into it when the bicyclist ran the red light and went into the cross walk while a swarm of people were walking through it. I've personally been accosted 3x while holding hands and walking my 5-year old son to school in completely "random" acts aggression. Strangely, it's not them trying to rob me, the aim is just to harass.
Well, this will be unpopular as [edit: some] of my comments are here ... but ... hopefully rinse and repeat in the rest of the big cities that have given up on enforcing laws and in effect have decriminalized crime. If states and cities can't keep people safe then unfortunately the national guard will have to step in. I do not envy those in the national and state guards as only handfuls of them are trained for this. I predict there will be some ugly mistakes and mishaps that may escalate some incidents.
[Edit] Thread is flagged. Will continue discussion on the next one.
I do not believe crime is accurately tracked [1]. Calling in the guard is not overreach when a city is demanding it through inaction.
[1] - https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/dc-police-commander...
> Calling in the guard is not overreach when a city is demanding it through inaction.
Is the city calling for protection, though? There's a big difference between police departments fabricating data and a need for intervention, whether through taking control of the city police or bringing in the national guard. What's the actual situation? Why is the Trump administration militarizing the city instead of running statistics to get actual crime numbers?
Bottom line, I am skeptical. Cities all over have de-criminalized crime, which makes the statistics untrustworthy.
There is often impunity given to certain people for serious but nonviolent crime like identity theft and selling schedule 1 narcotics (the most illegal kind of drug in Canada). They simply keep what they steal or the profit and are allowed to carry on even if there is clear proof in possession by law enforcement. I don't think an authoritarian response is really what we need but it does make a mockery of the criminal system when this is the policy. And the damage is real, with the victims left to just put the pieces back together on their own.
Do you think violent crime is on the rise?
Nobody knows the real answer to this. Rather cities have become violent over time and criminals are released shortly after their violent crimes. The general public is well aware of this and why there is a non-partisan rise in home and self defense purchases.
Do you have evidence for this? Literally your prior sentence says no one knows, but now you're making a concrete claim that not only is violent crime on the rise, but that we're releasing criminals shortly thereafter.
Citation needed.
All crime statistics I've seen indicate that violent crime has been on a steady decline for decades. If you have a credible source with data that refutes this, then by all means, please provide a link to it.
> The general public is well aware of this and why there is a non-partisan rise in home and self defense purchases.
This doesn't really mean anything. It is no surprise that the perception of peril is at an all time high, given reporting on violent crime has dramatically increased over time, especially on right-leaning media. When there isn't anything sufficiently terrifying to report, stuff gets made up (e.g., immigrants eating pets).
A fearful audience is more engaged, but perhaps more importantly, a fearful public is easier to manipulate.
1. "Nobody knows the real answer to this." Including you?
2. Do you think, specifically for argumentation, that Chicago is going up or down in its murder rates?
i.e. type and freq of crime cross with income and/or occupation.
[1] https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022/08/15/see-if-police-...
This is projection by the administration.
Trump pardoned 237 people on his first day: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_granted_executi...
I clicked through five pages of your comment history and only saw one other grey comment besides this one (I have show-dead enabled).
I suggest not doing the whole "this will get downvoted, but..." thing. It creates a tone of "I'm the underdog, who knows the uncomfortable truth".
Not an exaggeration, I witness some physical escalation 3 out of 5 days a week between Union Square and Midtown NYC on my daily commute. 10 minutes ago a delivery guy and a pedestrian got into it when the bicyclist ran the red light and went into the cross walk while a swarm of people were walking through it. I've personally been accosted 3x while holding hands and walking my 5-year old son to school in completely "random" acts aggression. Strangely, it's not them trying to rob me, the aim is just to harass.