'Self-termination is most likely': the history and future of societal collapse

12 rustoo 6 8/2/2025, 10:44:11 PM theguardian.com ↗

Comments (6)

delichon · 1h ago
According to this theory where social stability arises from equality, we would expect that the most stable civilizations in history must have been the ones with higher equality.

But what were those stable civilizations in history with high equality again? Other than cases of equal poverty. I'm having trouble looking them up. It seems that pretty much all of them had slavery in some form.

recursivecaveat · 1h ago
Are you certain that the civilizations you consider wealthy were not essentially 'equal poverty' with a tiny number of elites of top? From the article: "After the fall of Rome, people actually got taller and healthier". A generic high standard of living for the common people does not necessarily raise conquering armies or monuments to capture the modern imagination. The contrast is mostly against more distributed societies that you might not recognize as 'famous civilizations' per se, perhaps were able to provide better for their inhabitants.
thatcat · 41m ago
Hunter gather
delichon · 32m ago
I agree that if we abandoned agriculture, medicine, education, engineering, etc., and went back to hunter gathering, we would have more stability. It seems drastic though.
AndrewKemendo · 1h ago
The Yanomami are the most surveyed group that fits this category

Their chief threat is the externalities from industrialization and encroachment from transactional extractionist commercial systems.

You can look at the Hadzabe and the Tarawa also for other examples in extant locales

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanomami

delichon · 45m ago
The Yanomami are hunter-gatherers, with no private property and very limited material wealth. They enjoy the equality of subsistence living. Until modern times they were very stable. But apparently that kind of equality goes away when wealth appears.

And even they follow the usual tribal pattern of making war with their neighbors and taking women and children.