Ukraine destroys more than 40 military aircraft in drone attack deep in Russia

239 consumer451 313 6/1/2025, 1:39:44 PM npr.org ↗

Comments (313)

nradov · 5h ago
Much of the old USSR heavy aircraft industry supply chain was in Ukraine. Now Russia has minimal capacity to build new strategic aircraft: those few that they managed to put into service since 1991 largely still relied on stockpiled old parts. Even for tactical aircraft they only manage to deliver a few per year. And with their shattered educational system and declining working-age population this trend won't reverse any time soon.
Incipient · 1h ago
Aren't they just buying stuff from china these days? Do they need a domestic supply?
PedroBatista · 35m ago
Electronics, ATVs and clothing not Strategic nuclear bombers
dragonwriter · 53m ago
I don't think China is selling them strategic bombers.
dralley · 1h ago
China isn't gonna be producing parts for Soviet Bombers that they've never used themselves.
jojobas · 2h ago
Russia has either no capacity to build new strategic bombers at all, or has al they need to do it, depending on the timeframe you're talking about.

If they really decided to do it, they could make some kind on narrow-body bomber derivative of Il-96 in a few years.

kevin_thibedeau · 1h ago
Bombers require unpressurized bomb bays. The B-52 is built completely unlike any Boeing airliner. The fuselage is significantly different than an airliner and the structural changes would not be trivial to implement. They also need to have control surfaces designed to take off with a full load and land empty. Airliners don't have to take that into consideration.
jojobas · 1h ago
B-52 was designed in the 40's. Much has changed since and a lot of things that had to be figured out by costly experimentation are much easier and completely calculated.

Sure the resulting plane would not be optimized in a lot of aspects but they could do it.

idiotsecant · 1h ago
The basic premise of nuclear safety is mutually assured destruction. If Russia believes that another superpower believes that Russia might be less capable of MAD due to losing a huge chunk of one leg of the nuclear trifecta they might be more likely to act premptively in launching a nuclear exchange.

Also, The Russian government relies on projection of an image of strength not just externally, but internally as well. If the Russian government is seen as weak internally they might be more likely to take drastic actions to stay in power.

Put all these together, and it seems like the world might just be a bit more dangerous today than it was yesterday. Maybe that is the Ukrainian strategy - make Russia do something monstrous to a western power to force western action.

dralley · 1h ago
Russia was using those bombers to terrorize their cities night after night. Ukrainians are not required to (nor will they) sit back and take it out of abstract MAD force balance concerns. If Russia cared that much about the value strategic aviation holds in their nuclear doctrine, they wouldn't be using it to chuck missiles at chldren's cancer hospitals and apartment blocks.

If you want to try to impose some deeper strategic meaning onto this, a more plausible one would be the reverse: that the more "western powers" pull back from supporting Ukraine, the more Ukraine is are forced to establish they are capable of less conventional, less predictable, more aggressive means of deterrence to compensate for the absence of strong western partners.

goalieca · 1h ago
There’s no 4D chess here. Ukraine was attacking the planes used to bomb their civilians day in and day out.
credit_guy · 1h ago
It doesn't follow. For the US the most survivable part of the nuclear triad was always the submarines. For Russia it was the road-mobile nukes. The rest of the nuclear deterrent for both the US and Russia is quite optional, and serves mostly political reasons.
at0mic22 · 36m ago
Russia has 50 nuclear submarines, of which 14 are ballistic missile carriers. Every couple of years they produce a new one, think its clear where the bets are on
bdangubic · 1h ago
That is entirely too many words written that make no sense… The Ukrainian people were being killed by X, the Ukraine eliminated a bunch of X - end of story
hayst4ck · 1h ago
It is a clever manipulation strategy via controlling the frame of analysis. George Lakoff studied this type of thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lakoff

If you analyze from the US or Russian perspective, you presuppose/assert them as the entities with agency while denying Ukrainians theirs.

Any framing of an analysis that does not start from the frame of a Ukrainian with agency is suspect.

ericmay · 1h ago
Escalation from picking on Ukraine to using nuclear weapons is an escalator ladder that doesn’t make sense with respect to projecting strength - because utilization means direct war with the United States, which Russia will decisively lose. Once they use a nuclear weapon there is nothing else left to escalate. All the cards have been played.

Their only action would then be to use more nuclear weapons and they just aren’t going to do that because they don’t want to end the world.

hayst4ck · 1h ago
> because utilization means direct war with the United States, which Russia will decisively lose.

Not necessarily, Russia's successful intelligence efforts for regime change in the US may have nullified US response.

ericmay · 1h ago
Nah that’s just marketing. The US hasn’t fundamentally changed anything with respect to Ukraine. Even Trump can’t, and hasn’t changed that.
hayst4ck · 1h ago
Did you watch the same oval office event I did? The national rhetoric has absolutely changed. The talk of mineral "deals" instead of values and realpolitik is also a clear change. We are literally experiencing a purge of the old guard for replacement with loyalists throughout the US government bureaucracy, and once there are loyalists in every position of enforcement, the actions can be changed to match the rhetoric change, assuming they already haven't.
ericmay · 1h ago
No because I don’t waste my time watching press releases like that. If you’re watching those videos and thinking something has changed, you’re the target audience and the marketing was successful. Those are for entertainment purposes only.

Instead, find clear instances where the US is doing things like no longer sending Patriot missile launchers and missiles to Ukraine. [1]

[1] https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-working-allies-deliveries-patr...

hayst4ck · 1h ago
Right now you are wearing ignorance like a shield. You are proud of not watching a "manipulative press release."

Watch it, then try saying nothing has changed. You seem like someone with a strong world view that's strong because you reject anything that challenges it.

dragonwriter · 1h ago
> The US hasn’t fundamentally changed anything with respect to Ukraine.

At a minimum, the US stopped giving targeting intel to Ukraine; that itself is a pretty fundamental change.

coderenegade · 47m ago
I don't see anyone risking a global nuclear exchange by intervening in Ukraine if the Russians use nukes. I also think the average person probably underestimates how personal this is for the Russians. It's akin to the US fighting a war in Canada over resources, and what they believe to be an unacceptable military encroachment by an old enemy. This is probably the closest we've been to nuclear weapons being used since the Cuban missile crisis, maybe even since the second world war.
DonHopkins · 1h ago
Boy what a classically insincere insecure schoolyard bully's rationalization of why he brutally attacked an innocent child.

Blame Putin for being a vicious bully, not the kids he's brutalizing for provoking him by defending themself from the assault.

at0mic22 · 1h ago
I would assume having supply chain in place and aircraft manufacturer's like antonov, Ukraine is hiding its supersonic bombers somewhere.
JumpCrisscross · 10h ago
It looks like Ukraine just took out a third of the Russian bomber fleet, conventional and nuclear [1].

[1] https://www.wdmma.org/russian-air-force.php

thrill · 2h ago
It may have been even more effective than that if the intel supported specific target selection. Russia is likely already having a difficult time keeping their fleet operational, and if Ukraine was able to select aircraft that had recently flown then it's likely to have left mostly the non-flyable aircraft, causing Russia that much more difficulty to employ them.
duxup · 4h ago
The cost of those aircraft vs the cost of this operation has to be astounding.
rhcom2 · 3h ago
It's pretty crazy all other spots in the top 5 are taken by the US except #3 by Russia.
neilv · 1h ago
cosmicgadget · 8h ago
Would it be reasonable to assume some of the damaged aircraft are not bombers?
PedroBatista · 27m ago
It would, but these were FPVs and their targets can be precisely chosen at the very moment of the strike.

Also, these are remote airbases where all the strategic bombers are stationed. Fighter jets would not be there in significant numbers if any since they are needed in other bases closer to the front-lines and also some at the borders.

In in of the videos you could see a Mi-8 which was ignored because of it's insignificance compared to the primary targets.

dragonwriter · 59m ago
> Would it be reasonable to assume some of the damaged aircraft are not bombers?

Probably not many if any, they weren't attacked with area munitions but with FPV drones they were attacking bomber bases, specifically aiming to reduce offensive capability, there's not a lot of reason to target non-bomber other aircraft.

distances · 8h ago
Well, claims included also Beriev A-50, which is clearly more expensive than any of the bombers.
cosmicgadget · 8h ago
Absolutely, not trying to dump cold water on this remarkable feat of covert action. I just imagine there are a few support aircraft, fighters, non-op planes, helicopters, etc.
SkyPuncher · 1h ago
My understanding is the bases targeted are far away from the front lines. They keep the large, strategic aircraft here because (1) they out of range of conventional missile/drone attacks (2) they still have the range to make the trip to the front and back (3) these aircraft are largely launching missiles that fly hundreds of miles (so they don't actually need to be too close to the front). The smaller aircraft tend to be closer to the front.
mopsi · 7h ago
Doesn't look like that. The footage released so far shows almost exclusively bombers. Here's a row of Tu-95 bombers burning, plus a single transporter at the end of the row: https://bsky.app/profile/noelreports.com/post/3lqkf6ghq3s2l

At the very end, you can even see how the bombers were hit: a drone strikes the right wing of a Tu-95, causing the internal fuel tanks to catch fire and spill burning fuel. The wing then breaks off and collapses.

duxup · 48m ago
It’s interesting that amidst the attack there’s nobody trying to put out the fires or such activity.
3eb7988a1663 · 34m ago
You mean when there were hostile drones in the sky? Fire suppression takes a back seat when risking your life for some aircraft is going to do nothing to change the immediate engagement.
robocat · 3h ago
The attack worked against those aircraft because they were fueled.

Why were they loaded with fuel?

hshdhdhj4444 · 3h ago
Russia has been using these planes to bomb Ukrainian cities.

They also have a pattern of engaging in massive attacks right before major diplomatic events.

Russia and Ukraine have peace discussions scheduled for June 2 so Ukraine probably (and apparently correctly) anticipated Russia would be loading up for a bombing campaign the night before.

morkalork · 3h ago
Maintain a high level of readiness? At one point during the cold war, the US had B-52s not only fueled and ready to go but also airborne 24/7 (operation chrome dome).

Could also just be fuel vapors in the tanks going off too. Do bears have rigid tanks? In WW2 there was a big difference in survival between planes that did vs ones with bladders that collapsed as fuel was consumed.

robocat · 2h ago
If they were nuclear bombers, then an attack on nuclear deterrent infrastructure should really put the shits up the US (what if Russia mistook who was attacking?).

From another article (although maybe journalist is making shit up):

  The attacks that went after the heart of Russia's strategic [bomber] capabilities and one arm of its nuclear deterrent should serve as a global wake-up call.
Also if they are part of Russia's strategic military assets, then wouldn't Russia wonder if the US was a secret puppetmaster?
myk9001 · 1h ago
They didn't mistake anything and aren't wondering about anything.

Here's a primer on how these things work in Russia.

You can be as careful as you want, if they decide they want confrontation with the US, they'll make up a reason.

If they don't feel confrontation is in their best interest, you can hit Moscow with a Tomahawk and, magically, no one will notice anything but a clapping sound.

dragonwriter · 55m ago
> If they were nuclear bombers

They were nuclear-capable bombers that have regularly been used to attack Ukraine with conventional weapons (mostly cruise missiles.)

> Also if they are part of Russia's strategic military assets, then wouldn't Russia wonder if the US was a secret puppetmaster?

Increasing distrust between Putin and the Trump Administration would also be a coup for Ukraine, but, no, I don't think that's a real threat here.

morkalork · 2h ago
Tu-95 bears are indeed Russia's equivalent of a B-52 long range strategic bomber. You can see four of them burning in one video alone. A nuclear state losing one third of a leg in their nuclear triad in one morning to asymmetric warfare should put a fire under everyone's ass.
lmz · 2h ago
The US, a secret puppetmaster?
pmfgpmfg · 1h ago
Of course they will. russia, and russians disparage Ukrainians as a default. A success such as this will absolutely be blamed on “Western puppentmasters” rather than absolute mastery by Ukrainians. After all, the alcoholic descendants of a subservient Mongol enforcers couldn’t possibly have had their ass handed to them by Ukrainians. This is standard russian racism, beaten into them throughout the generations.
baby_souffle · 2h ago
Loaded with fuel so they could be up in the air ASAP, probably.
comrade1234 · 1h ago
Imagine this scenario... Ukraine tells USA that they're launching long-range drone attacks on Russian strategic bomber bases. USA tells Russia through back-channels. Russia preps bombers to fly if the long-range attacks are launched. Ukraine launches short-range attacks too fast for the bombers to escape.
JumpCrisscross · 42m ago
> Why were they loaded with fuel?

Arrogance. My Diamond Star stays fuelled. But I’m not committing imbecilic war crimes.

at0mic22 · 2h ago
I find it more interesting seeing tires on the wings.

Would assume that drones do not drop cumulative ammo, but the shrapnel ones. Those tires in theory should have protected from smaller pieces flying around causing a mess of a damage.

Russian media reports of 2-4 planes being destroyed while others are damaged. Think this dumb cheap hack actually helped a lot in minimizing the effectiveness of the strike.

dieortin · 2h ago
They didn’t drop any ammo, the drones themselves exploded on top of the wings, making the plane catch fire. So if there were tires (I didn’t see any) they didn’t do much to protect the planes.

Also, I don’t know why you would consider the reports in russian media. There’s more than 4 planes being destroyed on video.

at0mic22 · 2h ago
It does not really matter, as long as it is not cumulative, its spreading smaller particles around.

The proven historical rule of thumb is take ukrainian reports, take russian reports, and the truth is in the middle. You'd have to question your own sanity to trust numbers from either side blindfoldingly

tokai · 1h ago
>the truth is in the middle

No it isn't. Russia's reports are complete fabrications.

rcxdude · 1h ago
In the generous interpretation of 'middle'. Ukrainian reports tend to be a lot closer to the truth than Russian reports, but they do still have some bias (as in it's rare that things are better then Ukraine is making out).
at0mic22 · 49m ago
Ukraine is damn good at media war, although it has nothing to do with real life.

The real marker is immediate numbers. I bet even Russians yet to find out how many aircrafts have they irrecoverably lost, however we get numbers reported as if they are confirmed.

Cheap

bdangubic · 1h ago
This is a war, both on the ground and even more in the media. Both Russian and Ukrainian reports will generally be fabrications…
at0mic22 · 1h ago
In 2022 Ukraine reported Russia has missiles for 3 days. Trustworthy.
DonHopkins · 1h ago
Russian reports are so reliably untrustworthy that your pathetic "both sides" argument is nothing but spectacularly insincere Russian shilling, 100% bullshit, not even a half truth.

Ukraine doesn't have to fabricate about how Russia is killing its innocent civilians, or how Russia drove a Buk surface-to-air missile across their border and shot down a plane full of innocent civilians, which Russia 100% flat out denied. There is no "truth in the middle" there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17

hollerith · 11h ago
The longest-range battery-powered drones have a range of only 14 km or so (and probably cannot carry enough explosive that far to help much with an attack like yesterday's attack) thus the need for the Ukrainians to use trucks to transport the drones used in this attack to within a km or so of the target. It is easy for Ukrainians to pass for Russian (e.g., if stopped at a checkpoint inside Russia) because there were 3 million Ukrainians living inside Russia at the start of the invasion in 2022. The same cannot be said for many future conflicts. To give an example, the German regime got almost no useful information coming from spies in England during WWII because it proved easy for British society to detect and capture German spies. It probably would have proved equally difficult or almost as difficult and risky for the Germans to get a truck loaded with drones, explosives, drone operators and the electronics needed to control the drones to within a km of an English military target (if the citizenry knew about drones the way we in 2025 know about them).
wisty · 3h ago
In WWII, a joint Australian / British force carried out an attack, posing as Japanese fishing boat, and sailed right into Singapore harbour to place explosives on the vessels there. They flew a Japanese ensign, wore sarongs and wore tan makeup. Operation Jaywick was not a huge strategic success (and the local population was subject to reprisals since the Japanese thought it was their fault) but it did raise morale a lot in allied forces, as it was an early blow against Japan (which had seemed invincible at the time).

Even in the extreme example of white Australians trying to pass as Malaysians, special forces have pulled of plenty of raids without the need for native language speakers.

Even if you need someone highly fluent who can pass as a native, most of the time there's a nearby country where they have some kind of grudge against the belligerent. I can think of a lot of potential theatres where finding an enemy of a belligerent who can pass as a "native" would not be difficult. North / South Korea, China / Taiwan, The Middle East ... conflicts often occur in places where there's a lot of conflict.

Also, in a war, often the military and civilian sector are stretched thin. Russia can't spare the troops to guard everything as well as they could in peacetime, and even if they could search every vehicle they can't afford to gum up their logistics.

sureglymop · 3h ago
Drones also easily get jammed. Which is why both sides are using cable based drones with spools of fiber optics cable.
anigbrowl · 3h ago
It's only a matter of time before they go fully autonomous. The technology exists now and tbh I'd be surprised if it hasn't been deployed already.
solid_fuel · 1h ago
m463 · 59m ago
why can't drones park on or near power lines and inductively charge?
ncr100 · 33m ago
Would be kinda neat to see drones hanging off power lines like bats.
ClumsyPilot · 3h ago
> It is easy for Ukrainians to pass for Russian

It would not be necessary, as you pointed out, plenty of Ukrainians still live in Russia and they are free to drive trucks. Best of my knowledge, there is nothing like interment of Japanese that happened in US during WW2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_America...

justsomehnguy · 10h ago
> It is easy for Ukrainians to pass for Russian

There is no need to do so because they did employ a civilian drivers who never knew what 'cargo' they are hauling. Just like in the previous attack on the bridge.

andix · 3h ago
Someone still needs to hire the driver and set up everything. Much easier for someone that can just blend in, looks like everyone else, speaks the language and doesn’t only know the culture well, but even grew up in a similar culture.
hollerith · 10h ago
I was assuming that the drone operators were in the truck to make it more difficult for the Russians to jam the control signals. Do you know whether that is true?

Maybe the drones were pre-programmed for a particular destination (given to the Ukrainians by the US and its reconnaissance satellites), i.e., no drone operators needed.

mdhb · 5h ago
The latest technique is (besides the fiber optic stuff) is running the command and control over the local phone network of the country you’re in so it just looks like regular mobile data. That’s what allegedly happened here.
at0mic22 · 2h ago
Starting July 1st all SIM cards in Russia need to have the owner register his biometry and passport details, otherwise the number is blocked. Ukrainians had a window to perform this operation but I doubt they'll have the same approach possible in future.
grugagag · 1h ago
You think hacking SIMS is not possible in Russia?
at0mic22 · 1h ago
What do you mean by that? Stealing someone's sim? Doable, but detectable.
grugagag · 43m ago
Detectable after the attack is not very useful. They could even clone high ranking officials’ sims cards or the sims of just any regular folk…
at0mic22 · 18m ago
Quite easy to track though, like double sign-ins from different devices, uncommon locations, location and speed matching - like phone going 25mph in the forest.

And you don't need to permablock it, few minutes would be enough.

maxgashkov · 3h ago
According to videos published they still seem to be flying drones manually, so won't additional latency introduced by the cellular network & repeaters make this really hard / impossible?
tonyarkles · 3h ago
I don’t have a link handy but one of the videos I saw on Twitter looked like there was pretty bad latency. Once they got to the target aircraft they went into a hover and very slowly set it down on the wing before the FPV feed froze.

Edit: https://x.com/jimmysecuk/status/1929164382061092952

Teever · 3h ago
Have you checked the latency on modern cell networks lately?

I had a friend who was gaming on his phone that was tethered to his desktop about a decade ago and after he disabled some power saving stuff in the settings on android he was getting a reasonable 100ms ping that had negligible jitter.

lawn · 9h ago
The operators weren't present at the site.

They either used the trucks as a relay for the operators far away or the drones themselves were automated.

smackeyacky · 5h ago
An amazing idea: Drive a truck full of drones deep into enemy territory and let them loose. In the process, manage to poke serious holes into Russia's nuclear deterrent.

Hard to know whether to be seriously impressed or seriously concerned - if Europe decided that enough was enough and started helping Ukraine with troops if they decided the Russian nuclear threat was a paper tiger we're in for some very interesting times.

BuyMyBitcoins · 3h ago
Russia has a nuclear triad. Unless all of their submarines were in port and taken out during the attack, there’d be no way to prevent them from losing all three delivery mechanisms simultaneously.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_triad

Braxton1980 · 1h ago
Which is why a simultaneous targetted assassinations of Putin, his key government supporters, and the oligarchs is needed. Whomever would take over would have no reason to nuke others when he could just have power over Russia
rcxdude · 56m ago
Putin has very carefully put himself in the position that his death would cause a very chaotic power vacuum in Russia (to the detriment or at least risk of almost everyone), to dissuade any would-be assassins.
dragonwriter · 43m ago
> Drive a truck full of drones deep into enemy territory

They trucks used for the delivery were acquired (along with the mobile homes the drones were launched from that were on their beds) in Russia, as I understand it, not driven from Ukraine (of course, the drones still needed to be delivered from Ukraine for the attack packages to be assembled.)

throwaway422432 · 1h ago
I can imagine this could have been the motivation 18 months ago.

"In the early morning hours of 29 December 2023, Russia launched what was seen to be the largest wave of missiles and drones yet seen in the Russo-Ukrainian War, with hundreds of missiles and drones hitting the Ukrainian capital Kyiv and other cities across the country."

You have to wonder how much of that time was inventing/creating the actual capability on top of planning/rehearsing. Would be an interesting story in the mold of the "Dam Busters".

smackeyacky · 16m ago
It’s just an incredible of a story to me. The logistics and spycraft required boggle the mind
Teever · 4h ago
Imagine an assassination that is done with a drone mailed internationally to a PO Box. Send a gig driver to pick up a small box and drop it off at an abandoned lot.

The box has a machine inside that cuts the box open and opens up to release a drone that pops out and hits the target.

Bonus points if the box itself can fly away and self destruct so there's even less of a physical trail to figure out where the drone came from.

smackeyacky · 4h ago
The ultimate sleeper agents.

By all accounts the Ukrainian attack took a year to execute. It's the kind of planning that was behind the explosive pagers that Israel cooked up.

It's a new kind of automated terrorism - who knows what is planted around Russia now and when the Ukrainians will set it off.

alisonatwork · 2h ago
It's not terrorism if a country is at war and their military facilities were targeted.
o11c · 1h ago
But the definition of "country", "at war", and "military facility" depend entirely on whether your audience perceives that you're winning or not.
Teever · 3h ago
The next step in the automation is a cargo container sized machine that can be fed parts and spit out packaged drones ready to go.[0]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Variety

m463 · 1h ago
I imagine a "glitter bomb" operation. Basically a postal package that leaks drones all along its delivery route.

Also, why can't drones just infiltrate a country in little spurts from the borders, pausing near power lines to inductively power themselves.

A lot of this stuff is terrifying, and conflicts like the ukraine are basically funding/inventing nightmares.

hayst4ck · 4h ago
When it comes to abuse of trust, I'm worried about goods coming from China. Israel's compromise of the pager supply chain shows that innocuous seeming devices can be weaponized via trust.

Imagine if every IoT appliance decided to burn down/self destruct and every phone with satellite connectivity decided to weaponize its battery pack. If every car with cell service connectivity decided to accelerate with brakes disabled at once. If every access point/router decided to make itself inoperable/turned into a bot net removing home internet all at once and likely shifting traffic to cell towers which could overload them resulting in zero communication. Imagine that as many devices as possible were programmed or constructed in a way to create failure on a specific date or period.

Sounds insane, but I would have said the pager thing sounds insane too. All those things definitely sounds possible to me.

mmasu · 2h ago
i recently heard a podcast where a16z claimed this was one of the main reasons why you need a US electric vehicle and robotic industry - what if Chinese device could be weaponized at will in the event of a conflict?
ak217 · 57m ago
A less far-fetched reason is that modern EV and robotics technology (lithium ion and LFP batteries, motors, power electronics, embedded electronics, RF electronics etc) is dual-use and absolutely crucial for building all modern weapons
nobodyandproud · 2h ago
Nervously eyeing my robo vacs.
salawat · 51m ago
Ding, ding, ding. Welcome to the "Circus of Globalist's Externalities come home to Roost!"

At a certain point, you as a country can only be said to be capable of what you can do without external aid. The possibility that your Allies will always remain as such, either at their behest, or your own, is simply never zero.

Queue the Globalist's in the crowd going "The entire point was to maximize the amount of time before peace broke down through economic interdependence. Wrong. They optimized for that metric while maximizing the vulnerability to supply chain based attacks. They made individual countries less resilient and accepted the risk that if a much greater worldwide action potential was actually reached, everyone would be potentially fucked.

euroderf · 3h ago
So why doesn't Black Mirror have an episode where the PRC are the bad guys?
andix · 3h ago
It's probably not so easy to just send explosives via mail.
ioseph · 1h ago
Who needs explosives? Spring loaded pointy rod to the skull or razor to the neck
DonHopkins · 58m ago
Or boxes of chocolates?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy6uLfermPU

Spring Surprise??!

nthingtohide · 3h ago
I can now understand Palmer Luckey's point of intelligent weapons. It truly brings to life the quote from Game of Thrones, "Why is it more noble to kill 10,000 in battlefield than dozen at a battle." Intelligent weapons enable the second scenario. Civilian lives are mostly unharmed.
3eb7988a1663 · 2h ago
I think autocorrect mangled your quote! "Why it is more noble to kill 10,000 men in battle than a dozen at dinner?"
smackeyacky · 12m ago
If somebody can arrange single combat between Zelenskyy and Putin would it be on pay per view?
Gibbon1 · 4h ago
Imagine an anti-tank drone buried in the bushes 100 yards off the road.
throwaway422432 · 2h ago
You don't need a drone. Ukraine has these, and there are numerous videos of them taking out Russian vehicles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PARM_1_mine

ClumsyPilot · 3h ago
> An amazing idea: Drive a truck full of drones deep into enemy territory and let them loose.

Is it such an amazing idea? Imagine the shoe is on the other foot - would you normally be able to drive a truck full of drones into a country at war, say Israel? This puts a target on civilian vehicles.

> In the process, manage to poke serious holes into Russia's nuclear deterrent.

Again, is it such an amazing idea? Do you want to make people in charge of nuclear weapons more jumpy and likely to make a rash decision?

CoastalCoder · 3h ago
Amazing doesn't necessarily mean welcome.

It's amazing in how effective it was, and the asymmetry of the destruction compared to cold-war assumptions.

cjbgkagh · 18m ago
While I can admire the effectiveness I do have grave concerns when it’s so cheap to damage very valuable things from such a long distance. Nothing is as safe as it once was and never will be again. The once unthinkable becomes routine, perhaps tactical nukes are the next.
JumpCrisscross · 12h ago
40 bombers is like a third of the Russian bomber fleet [1]. That is huge.

[1] https://www.wdmma.org/russian-air-force.php

jauntywundrkind · 1h ago
Fwiw, the US bomber force is ~75 B-52's, 40-something B-1's, and 20 B-2's. Pretty similar to Russia, until today.
ponector · 5h ago
Worth noting that it is about strategic bombers only. Even is all of them are destroyed - Russians will continue everyday terror against cities as usual, but from other platforms. Pure evil country.
falcor84 · 3h ago
>Pure evil country.

There are no evil countries. There are people making choices, and they can always make other choices. Things aren't fixed and Russia can still have a different and better future.

hayst4ck · 1h ago
There might not be evil countries, but there are absolutely evil governments and broken cultures.

Sometimes defeat is required for change and sometimes change can only come from the outside.

balderdash · 3h ago
Its so strange to me that counter drone measures (active defenses - like jamming , lasers, nets, guns + passive measures - hardened aircraft shelters etc.) are not more common around airbases and the like. I would have thought governments would be rusting to harden installations and infrastructure. maybe this is the wake up they need.
justinator · 3h ago
Drones weren't seen as much of a threat as these airbases are many thousands of kilometers from the Ukraine border.
dmix · 1h ago
Those bases are heavily defended against drones. Ukraine has tried repeatedly to hit these bases and only succeeded once prior hitting a single TU-95. Since then there's been nothing as Russia adapted. The long range drones required have a larger radar signature and Pantsir + AA guns on the ground are pretty good at stopping that. That plus heavy EW and GPS jamming.

Which is why Ukraine spent the last year hitting softer targets like oil and factories.

justinator · 1h ago
>Those bases are heavily defended against drones.

Weight doesn't seem to imply effectiveness I guess.

mannerheim · 3h ago
EW is needed at the front, and these bases were deep within Russia. Lasers are not common technology for anti-drone use yet, and likely kinetic weapons are superior since lasers will not work in any sort of bad weather.
rhcom2 · 3h ago
I would guess they have that stuff but the trucks the drones were transported in entered within the perimeter of the base and bypassed it.
ClumsyPilot · 3h ago
START treaty between US and Russia requires that the Bombers are stored out in the open so that they can be monitored from satellite, to check compliance.

I guess after today's attack, that treaty is dead.

sxyuan · 1h ago
Russia already suspended their participation in Feb. 2023.
stackedinserter · 2h ago
From the treaty:

> The obligation not to use concealment measures shall not apply to cover or concealment practices at ICBM bases or to the use of environmental shelters for strategic offensive arms.

Anti-drone nets or simple hangars won't violate it.

bratao · 13h ago
If the numbers are true, this would be one of the more successful attacks in history. Drones are changing the whole dynamic of wars.
consumer451 · 12h ago
My concern is that it doesn't just change war, but security in general. I don't think that we have realized the real implications of this technology, especially the fiber optic drones.
JumpCrisscross · 12h ago
> I don't think that we have realized the real implications of this technology

Define “we.” The defence community has been deeply engaged with what’s going on in Ukraine since ‘22. (And the supremacy of sensor fusion in India’s air battle with Pakistan.)

consumer451 · 12h ago
We as a society. I don't want to write down my detailed thoughts on this, but anyone with a red team mind can imagine the implications for personal security.
jauntywundrkind · 1h ago
Kim Stanley Robinson wrote down pretty bluntly what society might do against the vicious nasty foes of the world with drones, in Ministry for the Future. A book very well reviewed by for example Bill Gates. https://www.gatesnotes.com/books/science-fiction/reader/the-...

Alas it feels optimistic to hope that asymmetric confrontation would be downtrodden people of the earth against bad world damaging take-take-take pests. Merely a science fiction. The world having powerful forces working strongly for the world rather than self interest: hardly believable science fiction.

jacquesm · 11h ago
Bluntly: nothing is safe from drones + a determined operator. No airfield, no aircraft on the ground, no government institution. Drones have changed warfare forever and Ukraine is writing the manual for future operations. What happened today was unthinkable 10 years ago. As one side effect I predict that at least in some places private drone ownership will become illegal. Think about it: for a few hundred K you get to take out a good chunk of a nuclear power's strike capability.
JumpCrisscross · 9h ago
> Drones have changed warfare forever

We’re in a strategic imbalance. Cold War air defences were trained on high-value targets, like strategic bombers and spy planes. So currently our air defences are overspecced for something like this.

Nothing about drones makes them inherently undetectable. You just need a different model. I suspect those should be commonplace within 20 years, potentially a decade.

> at least in some places private drone ownership will become illegal

I could see ownership being restricted in wartime. More likely is eager air defences shredding birds on perimeters.

nothercastle · 6h ago
Exactly ad well catch up but is limited by inefficiencies of procurement
threatofrain · 4h ago
Won't the cat and mouse game ultimately tilt to the side of defense? I imagine automated rifles are basically impossible to dodge. Automated rifles sound much more scary to me. Plant a rifle and wait a year, works on people and drones.
lmm · 2h ago
> Won't the cat and mouse game ultimately tilt to the side of defense?

Probably not. Most of the history of war is weapons getting stronger and stronger and defence getting harder and harder. E.g. in ancient times a shield or simple palisade could protect you, now even tanks and trenches are not safe. The days of being able to build a wall along a border and hold it against a peer adversary are long gone and not coming back.

01HNNWZ0MV43FF · 1h ago
I feel like this correlates with nations getting bigger over time and the square-cube law (or line-square law for national borders?) but I am not smart enough at military stuff to figure it out
lmm · 1h ago
I've read that it's kind of the converse - as military technology advances the size of a "minimum viable nation" increases. E.g. as gunpowder technology developed, anywhere that couldn't afford to field a gunpowder military got absorbed into somewhere that could.
gus_massa · 1h ago
I remember when https://xkcd.com/652/ was published and it was brilliant. Now it's very outdated.
justsomehnguy · 3h ago
> Think about it

Three years ago: "Oh stop nobody can do a decapitation strike. Russia's security concerns are bogus".

AnimalMuppet · 3h ago
OK, but how does taking Ukraine eliminate Russia's concern about an attack like this?
luckylion · 10h ago
How did it change?

It's cheaper now, it's easier to pull off remotely, but most airports already were vulnerable to terrorist attacks. It feels like the primary mechanism that protected civilian airports is that the weapons you'd use aren't easy to get, and states didn't want to supply their sponsored terror groups with that kind of weaponry because it'd be dangerously close to an act of war and very hard to deny.

Individually, you were never safe by default. Your safety depends on not being an interesting target.

euroderf · 3h ago
> Individually, you were never safe by default. Your safety depends on not being an interesting target.

Hello, cyberpunk future. Imagine Luigi with Ukraine's strike capabilities. 10 years from now? 5?

XorNot · 2h ago
So you know, if instead of being one guy he was a substantial portion of intelligence operatives of a nation-state with significant industrial resources backing him?

Ukraine isn't wealthy, but it's still an entire country.

larodi · 12h ago
Real implications are that once again you don’t want your personal shit being public, which will still take some while for gen.audience to understand about social media and all sorts of corporate surveillance.
rpozarickij · 11h ago
I haven't heard about fiber optic drones [0] before and it turns the fiber optic used by them is much stronger [1] than I initially suspected.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_optic_drone

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh7SYWl79no

morkalork · 2h ago
Not sure why the sibling comment is dead, it's an interesting topic. Here is a safe for work video of someone walking through countless strands of fibre over a field: https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1l0ld99/...

I read one operator describe the forests as being like Mirkwood from the Hobbit. Eerie.

at0mic22 · 3h ago
Curios enough, drones definitely produce interference from rotors apart from sensible noise. A modern anti-drone system should not rely on traditional reflection-detecting radars but try detecting electric motors, radio signals from 3g/4g modems etc. And it does not necessarily have to work for many miles.

I would see it as a reasonably sized box loaded with interceptor drones, they don't even have to explode. That's something we will see en masse shortly from the Russian side.

Actually nobody should take Russians as dumb and clumsy. They adapt fast. And they can benchmark fast too, thanks to ukrainians. The only open questions is whether the rest of the world accepts new situation, or will continue spending billions on less effective F35s

jandrewrogers · 45m ago
> A modern anti-drone system should not rely on traditional reflection-detecting radars but try detecting electric motors, radio signals from 3g/4g modems etc.

Standard kit on US military aircraft detect this and 5th gen platforms like the F-35 are designed to attack such systems.

One of the biggest misconceptions about the F-35 is that it is a combat aircraft, 1970s style but with better tech. In many regards, it is designed primarily as a state-of-the-art EW and AWACS-like system that can operate as part of a mesh. Yeah, it is still pretty good at the basic combat mission but the whole mesh EW/AWACS bit is its killer feature.

In the 20th century, you kill the AWACS/EW platforms, they are gone. A lot of effort went into both killing and protecting them. In the 21st century the AWACS/EW platform is a fluid organism comprising many stealthy cells because it is embedded into many platforms, and is much harder to kill because it isn’t a discrete target.

at0mic22 · 10m ago
I don't mean those anti-drone systems should target regular aircrafts. Really cool F35 can target them and at the same time it’s highly unlikely F35 would have ever reached those distant airfields.
jandrewrogers · 2m ago
For sure, I think those airfields are a bit beyond the combat radius of an F-35. It is partly why they are where they are.
the__alchemist · 2h ago
> or will continue spending billions on less effective F35s

This claim, that FPV UASs equipped with explosives are more effective than F-35s as a blank statement does not sound meaningful.

comrade1234 · 1h ago
This attack just showed this. An f-35 could have never pulled off these attacks.
dragonwriter · 35m ago
OTOH, if Ukraine had F-35s, it probably wouldn't need to spend a year and a half preparing a covert operation to take out bombers that were conducting regular attacks on them, either, they'd just intercept them in the air.
at0mic22 · 5m ago
Think Ukraine had its own airforce at the beginning, and for 30 years nobody stopped it from modernizing or acquiring new aircrafts.

Besides that, I doubt the US would have ever sold a single F35 to Ukraine just because of revealing radio-emission and reflection patterns to russian air defense, basically drawing F35 useless for future usage against Russia.

at0mic22 · 2h ago
Price-based they are.
tstrimple · 2h ago
TIL most of the drones used in Ukraine aren’t wireless. They unspool an extremely thin fiber optic filament. There is a video of some soldiers walking through a field and it looks like he’s collecting thick spider webs as he goes.
at0mic22 · 2h ago
AFAIK fiber drones are specifically short range, couple of miles only. The spool size itself is the limiting factor
tstrimple · 29m ago
Up to 30km now. Though I was wrong about it being most, it is a growing number.

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/new_domestic_30_km...

at0mic22 · 3m ago
I believe its designed for bigger drones, where power supply would be the primary concern
Tokkemon · 2h ago
What's the purpose of using the fiber? To avoid radio signals?
lreeves · 2h ago
Electronic warfare is pretty effective against drones that are using radio waves for their communication. Earlier in the war you could see a lot of drone footage that would become washed out with static as they got closer to tanks so it's much more reliable to use spools of fiber.
rawgabbit · 2h ago
To counter jamming and GPS spoofing. https://spectrum.ieee.org/killer-drones
GaggiX · 2h ago
Most drones are wireless, the vast majority in fact, but there are drones that use fiber optic but of course they are much more expensive and they have to carry a large spool of fiber optic, the spool must be on the drone so it wouldn't tangled.
kaycey2022 · 52m ago
Drones connected to their controller with a bunch of dangling cables sounds completely mental.
tstrimple · 25m ago
The aftermath certainly looks crazy. One of the comments talked about seeing an older video of a drone following a line of cables back to an operator.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1kwsum...

tstrimple · 28m ago
Yes, I was wrong about it being most. But it is a growing segment.
XorNot · 2h ago
Short range drones powered by lithium ion batteries with a flight time of 20 minutes and a low ground speed are in absolutely no way a replacement for long range supersonic attack aircraft.

And an autonomous supersonic attack aircraft would cost..about as much as the F-35 because the F-35 is not principally expensive because of the pilot.

CamperBob2 · 1h ago
Short range drones powered by lithium ion batteries with a flight time of 20 minutes and a low ground speed are in absolutely no way a replacement for long range supersonic attack aircraft.

They don't have to replace them. They just have to destroy them.

at0mic22 · 1h ago
Yeah, basically not even the aircrafts are to blame, but insanely expensive and limited air defense systems.

You shouldn't be launching a patriot missile to take down a drone, that's the point

at0mic22 · 2h ago
Very much depends on the purpose, supersonic aircrafts coming from 60s are a great way to demonstrate power over a long distance along with aircraft sea carriers

But they are vulnerable both in the air and on the ground. Recent Iran attacks over Israel and everyday Russian attacks show that shakhed flying vespa-drones can overload any air defense and deliver ammo for real cheap

k310 · 12h ago
Some say that the Spanish Civil War was the rehearsal for WWII. No doubt, the war in Ukraine is just such a situation.
cosmicgadget · 8h ago
As long as TACO doesn't dissolve NATO or try to invade Canada, the optimist in me believes a global conventional war is highly unlikely.
dragonwriter · 19m ago
Why would he dissolve NATO? That would just encourage something else to form where the US doesn't have a veto over all decisions.
AnimalMuppet · 5h ago
Dissolving NATO is beyond his power. He could maybe withdraw the US from it.
snovymgodym · 3h ago
> He could maybe withdraw the US from it.

realistically speaking, this destroys NATO

euroderf · 2h ago
Timothy Garten Ashe of Oxford says that NATO needs about five years to adapt to the loss of the USA.
AnimalMuppet · 3h ago
Under current circumstances, I doubt it. NATO has extremely fresh evidence of why it needs to continue to exist, and what happens if it doesn't.
roenxi · 3h ago
WWII was pretty compelling evidence of why Britain needed a global empire, but nonetheless the empire was dissolved.

There is a pretty good argument here for at a minimum reforming NATO. Some major points include that the US appears to be bluffing about having useful support to offer Eastern Europe through the NATO structure, also appears to have different defence priorities than Europe does, NATO itself failed to preserve peace and Europe looks like it has militarily atrophied to a pretty significant extent under NATO.

It is not clear how the situation will ultimately be interpreted, but the US's involvement here is pushing Europe towards being the next middle east. That isn't a great outcome.

erupt7893 · 1h ago
You are naive if you think global conventional war is highly unlikely at this point. A nuclear weapon capable country is being backed in to a corner
croemer · 1h ago
*backing itself
CamperBob2 · 1h ago
As if their nukes still work.

If they did, Putin would have resumed above-ground testing by now as a show of strength.

He doesn't dare.

dmix · 1h ago
That's a dangerous prediction to make. Russia spends a ton of money supporting it's nuclear weapons/fleet ($10B in 2022 alone). Even if half fail it wouldn't make a difference.
CamperBob2 · 1h ago
Put yourself in the shoes of a senior Russian official in charge of spending that money. There's no way for him to get caught. If his superiors ever find out that he 'misplaced' the funding needed to keep their nuclear weapons ready for action, tracking him down will be the least of their concerns.
defly · 1h ago
Here is a list of largest volunteer funds at your disposal (military and non-military help):

Come Back Alive ex. These guys delivered first deep-strike drones

https://savelife.in.ua/en/donate-en/

Serhiy Prytula Charity Foundation ex. Bought a famous spy satellite

https://prytulafoundation.org/en

KOLO Charity Foundation managed by UA tech community

https://www.koloua.com/en/

dralley · 1h ago
Liberty Ukraine is also good. They periodically run fundraisers for engineering equipment for digging defensive positions in addition to supplying drones and whatnot.

https://www.libertyukraine.org/

https://www.paypal.com/donate?campaign_id=EEYJZXS9SNG7G

tim333 · 10h ago
Good on Ukraine! I've always thought a good way of dealing with barbaric behaviour would be to use drones to destroy the baddies weapons. Putin obviously doesn't care how many tens of thousands of Russians he sends to their deaths so hitting the weaponry and finances is probably the way. Or killing Putin of course which they also seem to be trying - https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/did-ukraine-try-to-assassina...

There's some interesting stuff happening on the financial side as well with the Lindsey Graham bill - this thing https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/05/28/new-us-senate-...

jqpabc123 · 11h ago
I'm curious how they managed to control the drones from such a distance.

I'll bet Russia is curious too.

danogentili · 8h ago
Apparently they're using a simple 4g/3g/2g modem with Russian SIM, which is the reason why all russian ISPs completely turn off mobile internet (& voice) when drone launches are detected (clearly hasn't helped here as the drones were launched from trucks super close to the targets).

These launches specifically seem to have also used on-board AI targeting models trained on photos of the plane models to hit, I assume as a fallback in case mobile connection isn't available inside the bases (and photos on some Telegram channels seem to show usage of the FOSS autopilot system ArduPilot (https://ardupilot.org))

JumpCrisscross · 9h ago
> curious how they managed to control the drones from such a distance

The targets weren’t moving. As long as you have a cell connection in the trailer and up-to-date satellite imagery, you could send the coördinates and even flight path to the drones ahead of time and then have them deal with minor obstacles on their own.

duxup · 9h ago
Presumably even a slow connection the drone could send some imagery, someone confirms it / picks out a plane parked, and the drone does the thing.

Camera locking on to a parked plane, should be fairly easy to do the job.

berndi · 1h ago
Someone claimed they used fiber optic drones [1]. So perhaps the drones were connected to the trucks via optical fibers and the trucks carried the modems. That way, jamming over the airbases would have had no effect.

[1] https://nitter.net/bayraktar_1love/status/192915556386414634...

zzzeek · 11h ago
obviously StarLink
watwut · 9h ago
I doubt they trust Musk with operational security anymore. It is pretty much guaranteed he would betray them to Russia.
zzzeek · 8h ago
That was my intended joke to say the least

Interesting that they claim the attack was shared with the Trump admin ahead of time. That seems very unnecessarily risky as well considering where Trump's loyalties lie

rasz · 6h ago
I read Ukraine leaked attack details ahead of time, except it was supposed to be 2000 mile range heavy slow drones striking in the middle of the night. Russians "somehow" got this info and prepared waiting ready until the morning with all bombers fueled up ready to take off. Drones never showed up, morning came, national aviation holiday, pilots went to celebrate, 12:00pm drones take off from trailers.
romperstomper · 11h ago
obviously StarLink doesn't work in the deeps of russian territories
justsomehnguy · 10h ago
romperstomper · 8h ago
Neither Starshield
zzzeek · 11h ago
Why, no antennas ? The shipping container has the antennas ?

Starlink is a joke here but "satellites" in general are not

jqpabc123 · 11h ago
After a call from Putin, this won't happen again.
fredthestair · 9h ago
Right the attack Milo Minderbinder sells in 2 quarters will look just different enough to not exactly be the same thing happening again.
cosmicgadget · 9h ago
It'd be risky but of they left more trucks staged for a second attack it would make Russia scramble to protect air bases deep in their territory.
thisislife2 · 4h ago
The attack was certainly planned meticulously and can be termed a successful operation. Even the Russian media acknowledges it so, reporting that 5 airfields were targeted, attack on 3 were repelled successfully while attacks on 2 were a partial success. But they also speculate that Ukraine will not be able to carry out such attacks any more. As per their analysis, the drones were launched from cargo trucks and remotely guided via mobile networks. The Russian military are already revising their base security doctrines to increase surveillance around the bases and will now be apparently jamming mobile signals over airbases. Moreover, such kind of attacks require a network of human operatives - many have already been arrested and counter-intelligence operations to track down the rest is already underway.

So any more future attacks of such nature would all depend on how successfully the Ukrainian operatives in Russia are able to evade Russian security services.

cosmicgadget · 3h ago
Yeah sounds like Ukraine is saying they withdrew the team that built the equipment already, would be pretty risky to have another truck waiting in the wings.

Almost a bonus to have Russia jam its own airbases and increase surveillance if a follow up isn't possible.

bn-l · 1h ago
What strategic venerabilities does that open up I wonder.
casenmgreen · 12h ago
The men who did this are heroes.
ndsipa_pomu · 10h ago
As are any women involved

No comments yet

hintymad · 3h ago
No wonder bay-area companies love to set up offices in East Europe. Their engineers are really really good, as this event demonstrated.
at0mic22 · 2h ago
I would assume this event was a one-time hack, it does not scale. Actually most of the “miracle weapons” from the very beginning of the conflict have faded away.

Bairktars? Gone. Sea drones? Haven't heard of them in a while. What else?

Russians in comparison are great at scaling. Rockets flying daily, vespa-drones - daily, FAB bombs got wings and flying daily. That's the consistency what wins wars, not the greatest talent.

dragonwriter · 14m ago
> Sea drones? Haven't heard of them in a while.

You haven't heard as much about sea drones because Russia was forced to stop naval operations close to Ukraine by them, after losing 1/3 of the Black Sea Fleet.

Though they still occasionally manage to make headlines doing other things, https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/ukrainian-naval-drones-shoo...

euazOn · 2h ago
You havent heard this absolutely crazy thing about their sea drones that happened not even a month ago? https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-says-it-shot-do...
at0mic22 · 2h ago
This incident only shows the mistake of SU-30 crew which detected the sea drones from the long distance and for some reason got into the shooting range. Usually those drones are destroyed with something like X-38MT missiles, from the 50-70km range. Otherwise you would have seen a lot more interceptors taken down
walls · 2h ago
> Sea drones? Haven't heard of them in a while.

They shot down an Su-30 with a naval drone around a month ago: https://www.newsweek.com/drone-naval-sukhoi-jet-2067633

markus_zhang · 2h ago
What is Russia going to do when she figures that she cannot keep her strategic bombing fleet safe?
storus · 2h ago
While this is an impressive achievement, I am wondering if this prompts Russia to actually use nukes as it looks like they might be in front of a dilemma "use it or lose it" given what one can do with drones. Wiping out one third of one third of their strategic nuclear triad in a few hours might change their calculus considerably.
Georgelemental · 2h ago
On the other hand, it’s by far the most useless and obsolete third
duxup · 8h ago
Are there any effective short range small object radar systems?

Or is conventional radar so noisy / limited that close range and object size is a real problem?

jandrewrogers · 3h ago
This already exists as relatively mature military technology in vehicle active protection systems. Trophy[0] is a well-known example. The latency from detection to reaction is measured in milliseconds.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure)

greedo · 1h ago
That doesn't work on light-skinned vehicles, or aircraft.
jandrewrogers · 1h ago
Irrelevant to the question, which was if military radar existed that could detect and track small objects at relatively short-range. The technology is modular and in fact fast enough to detect and engage supersonic threats. The military could wire up any response they wish to a detected threat (and they have). It doesn’t literally have to be the Trophy system. That serves as an existence proof and is a well-known example of such tech.

The engineers that design these things seem to have more imagination than their critics.

nradov · 3h ago
Sure, there are radars that effective for picking up small targets at short range. The C-RAM point defense system has detected and destroyed incoming mortar rounds. It's very expensive.
tim333 · 6h ago
I think aircraft radars are deliberately designed not to pick up birds and bushes and the like. The radars on cars seem to pick up small objects.
zzzeek · 11h ago
these shipping containers seem to be automated, with roofs that blow off, launching drones, then the container itself self-destructs

https://x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1929166249348476968

video of the self-destruct: https://bsky.app/profile/militarynewsua.bsky.social/post/3lq...

MountainMan1312 · 11h ago
Weird, it only shows one drone coming out. Do they come out one at a time? When I think launching a drone swarm deep inside a country, I imagine the top blowing off and thousands of drones swarming out at once like insects.
Zanfa · 10h ago
There’s at least one other video where you can see the drones flying out one after the other, with like 10 second delay. Launching one at a time needs fewer pilots and has no risk of collisions that might set off a chain reaction. They’re clearly not in a hurry since who’s going to go near a truck full of high explosive drones anyway.
euazOn · 8h ago
Not true, not being in a hurry hurt one of the operations. "Russians climbed onto a truck in an attempt to prevent the takeoff of FPV drones and the attack on the airbase". https://nitter.net/bayraktar_1love/status/192916791054458931...
rasz · 6h ago
This is same parking lot from video of drones taking off

https://nitter.poast.org/Osinttechnical/status/1929149970566...

its after the attack and drones gone. Those idiots were lucky, there is another video from a truck that malfunctioned and caught fire on side of the road. russian forces the door, enters and boom. Appeared booby trapped.

euazOn · 1h ago
Indeed. I stand corrected.
MountainMan1312 · 6h ago
Oh yeah I forgot about pilots
talkingtab · 1h ago
In my humble, and probably wrong opinion, the war in the Ukraine is about two different systems. You could call one system of human interaction the Putin-model. This is the one we in the US have recently adopted. Another model is a collaborative one. The models are not sharply delineated, but the differences are essential. Do we act with collaborative intelligence or do we follow orders? Most US corporations and individuals now rely on the Putin model. In this model, some (possibly incompetent and possibly insane) individual decides what we do, and we do it. I have seen revered corporate leader choose the dumbest choice possible over and over. The other model requires that the individual members can collaboratively understand a problem and respond to it. Unfortunately our "follow the leader" educational system has insured that we have few thinkers who are able to actually assess and solve problems.

I apologize because my experience with corporate culture has resulted in a strong and decisive conclusion that corporate leaders such as Musk and Cook, et al., could not fight their way out of a paper bag. Really. What they can do is order other people to fight their way out of paper bags. If I were somehow ever in an overloaded life boat, the first people I would push over the side would be the Musks and Cooks. Musk's "send me an email" just does not work in a life boat in a storm. sigh.

I realize that in our cultist society this is blasphemy, but really - if you are able to think any original thought, go for it. And for those of you who do not get it. Well, the best I can say is good luck.

ipv6ipv4 · 1h ago
The differences you are touching on are about interpersonal trust, and the concept of trust in society. Russia has a traditionally low trust culture. It's rooted in the most private interpersonal relationships, and is reflected in society as a whole.

The U.S. has traditionally been a high trust society. But not everyone in the U.S. is a person who can trust others. The recent political machinations in the U.S. represent the low trust segment of American society. The key to undoing it is to re-inculcate trust at a personal level, and at societal level. How that is actually done is a difficult problem with no readily obvious solution.

ndsipa_pomu · 10h ago
g0rsky · 3h ago
Slava Ukraini!
jeffbee · 12h ago
It always seemed obvious to me that this vulnerability exists everywhere. For example there isn't anyone who will stop you from pre-positioning weapons adjacent to American strategic assets. That's why I thought the media freakout about the supposedly Chinese balloon was so ridiculous.
JumpCrisscross · 12h ago
> obvious to me that this vulnerability exists everywhere

“Everywhere” meaning undefended airspace into which one masses a significant fraction of one type of strategic armament.

This was the savvy exploitation by Kyiv, once again, of Russian operational incompetence.

> there isn't anyone who will stop you from pre-positioning weapons adjacent to American strategic assets

You want to try driving a truck up to a USAF base? (EDIT: Where strategic arms, e.g. B-2s, live.)

This is a novel threat vector. It needs to be protected against with vigilance. That to requires active effort to counter doesn’t mean it’s OP. Just that defensive perimeters need to be expanded, units not needlessly amassed, air defences kept in check and those perimeters constantly (and completely) monitored.

jacquesm · 11h ago
All airfields are serviced by highways, even the main military ones. These little drones still have a 15 to 20 km strike range because they're one-ways.
jeffbee · 12h ago
Are you joking? Have you seen ANY American Air Force bases? Tinker AFB is flanked north and south by interstate freeways and surrounded by civilian truck stops and materiel depots. The easiest way to stage a weapon there would be to literally order it on Amazon.

The air mobility command in the Bay Area is similarly totally surrounded by urban civilization.

ViewTrick1002 · 12h ago
And imagine how many cheap drones you can have in a container if you don't need to smuggle the container across borders.
mopsi · 7h ago
The containers weren't smuggled across the border. Ukrainian intelligence assembled the containers in a rented warehouse inside Russia, near the border with Kazahkstan. Drones were hidden into the roof section of wooden containers. Photos: https://bsky.app/profile/maks23.bsky.social/post/3lqkc4osmhk...

I think it would be reasonable to assume that almost everything except for explosives were commercial off-the-shelf parts and trivial to acquire.

jeffbee · 12h ago
Exactly my point. America probably admits a container full of drones every hour or something.
JumpCrisscross · 12h ago
> Tinker AFB is flanked north and south by interstate freeways and surrounded by civilian truck stops and materiel depots

Isn’t Tinker mostly logistics, intelligence and AWACS? Don’t get me wrong, that’s important. But you’re not taking out a significant fraction of any U.S. armament hitting Tinker with drones.

greedo · 1h ago
Offut AFB is right next to Bellevue/Omaha and it would be absolutely trivial to attack all the STRATCOM aircraft located there. Think KNEECAP/TACAMO etc. Whiteman AFB in Missouri where the B2 bombers live would be an easy, easy target for this type of attack. The B2's are kept in climate controlled facilities, but the Ukrainian military has shown the ability to fly into almost any building and attack. The US is woefully underprepared for this type of attack.
lmm · 2h ago
AWACS is if anything more vital and more vulnerable than bombers. If you're blind it doesn't matter how much firepower you've got.
Jtsummers · 12h ago
It's one of the three USAF maintenance depots (consolidated, IIRC, back in the 90s). Aircraft that are maintained by USAF (vice dispatched to a contractor site for the same kind of work) primarily go to Robins, Tinker, or Hill to be torn apart and rebuilt. An attack on a place like Tinker won't necessarily hurt in the next 6 months, but will in the next 18 when you lack the critical facilities for depot maintenance.

And that's ignoring all the other functions the 25k+ people working there serve.

JumpCrisscross · 11h ago
> An attack on a place like Tinker won't necessarily hurt in the next 6 months, but will in the next 18 when you lack the critical facilities for depot maintenance

This drone attack worked because small explosives detonated close to an airframe can do catastrophic damage. That simply isn’t true for most equipment, civil or military. (The exception at Tinker being the AWACS.)

Tinker being nuked would be a strategic disaster. Dozens of drones causing small-arms damage around the base would be embarrassing, but nothing on the order of America losing a third of anything in its possession.

The analog would have to be us putting e.g. most of one class of unit at Tinker simultaneously for maintenance.

Jtsummers · 11h ago
You're focused on AWACS probably because that's the operational unit at Tinker, but they aren't the only aircraft at Tinker.

I count over 60 aircraft on the Google Maps image of Tinker, not all of them AWACS (there are less than 20 AWACS total so most of these planes aren't AWACS). And that's not counting what may be in hangars which could also be a target of this hypothetical attack. USAF has about 5500 aircraft, so this accounts for over 1% of the current USAF air fleet. It's not as critical an attack as what's happened in Russia, but it's still very damaging.

It's an operational airfield so it has large fuel tanks which would be targeted and are hardly immune to small explosives themselves. Attacking those and the ensuing fires would be costly to repair and recover from. That alone, ignoring any attacks on aircraft, could lead to months of downtime for the airfield and various disruptions as you relocate your operational units to an airfield that still has fuel tanks (if the aircraft survived the attack).

JumpCrisscross · 10h ago
> You're focused on AWACS probably because that's the operational unit at Tinker

They’re slow to make, critical to modern war and we don’t even have two dozen of them. (I think at least a quarter of our AWACS are at Tinker. Hence the analogy to Russia concentrating its bombers.) For everything else we have redundancy in droves.

> not all of them AWACS

Yup, refuelling, logistics, cyberwar. Nice to have. But not critical and few among many.

> months of downtime for the airfield and various disruptions as you relocate your operational units to an airfield that still has fuel tanks

You’re not detonating fuel tanks at Tinker with drones. (Not unless they’re storing munitions within blast range of the tanks.)

I’m not arguing such a strike wouldn’t be damaging. It just would not be disabling to scale of this attack. It would also be unusual for the highways around bases to be unrestricted during major wartime. (Or drones to remain uncontrolled, for that matter.)

jeffbee · 12h ago
At any given time much of the B-1 fleet is parked on the ramp at Tinker.

Anyway, I invite you to visit America some day. I think it's obvious to Americans that anyone can drive a truck to within a mile or two of every military installation, usually much closer.

JumpCrisscross · 11h ago
> At any given time much of the B-1 fleet is parked on the ramp at Tinker

One type of a retiring aircraft. Not comparable to a third of Russia’s entire bomber fleet.

> it's obvious to Americans that anyone can drive a truck to within a mile or two of every military installation

Fair enough, in peacetime. Russia is at war.

jacquesm · 11h ago
Imagine: take out one AWACS with a $500 drone...
AnimalMuppet · 4h ago
The media freakout about the Chinese buying land near US air force bases, though, seems dead on.
anovikov · 11h ago
Simple solution is to store them hangared. Not too expensive for a rich country like US. It will also improve deployment ambiguity and facilitate covert changes in readiness levels (it's hard to tell from outside whether a plane in hangar is fuelled and armed or not).
ClumsyPilot · 3h ago
They are stored out in the open because of the START treaty between US and Russia, it requires that nuclear strategic bombers should be visible from satellite to monitor compliance with the treaty.

This attack, potentially, might spell the end of that treaty.

greedo · 1h ago
B2 is definitely stored in climate controlled hangers to help protect their stealth coatings.

START has long since been a dead treaty, replaced by New START. New START has two verification methods, none of which rely on overflight by satellites; instead, verification is performed by onsite inspections of nuclear facilities.

yubblegum · 1h ago
This line is making the rounds in various forums and it is not factual. START ended.
libertine · 5h ago
I don't think these types of planes are stored in hangars, these are huge. Geography is kind of a way to protect them.

The best way to protect them is maybe not invading and trying to commit genocide on a neighboring country.

It's like developing a good relationship with Ukraine wasn't a possibility, it had to be through corruption and now war.

jerlam · 5h ago
Even if you put all the planes in hangers, there are always other softer targets to attack. Fuel depots, weapons storage, barracks, factories, rail lines, etc. Not to mention the list of non-military targets, if you wanted to go that way.
MilnerRoute · 8h ago
CNN says the drones "were targeting aircraft that bomb Ukrainian cities every night, the Ukrainian Security Service said – estimating the damage caused to the Russian side at more than $2 billion."

https://www.cnn.com/2025/06/01/europe/ukraine-drones-russia-...

nothercastle · 11h ago
This is the future of warfare and terrorism worldwide. Coming to a conflict zone near you.
afroboy · 6h ago
US is doing a lots of shit in Middle east right now and the new kids will grow to revenge, it will be interesting times since the drones doesn't costs much.
suzzer99 · 3h ago
I'm not convinced that what the US does or doesn't do now will have any impact on Muslim extremists' desire for revenge against Israel, the US, and the West. That ship sailed a long time ago. They seem to be in permanent revenge mode.
juujian · 2h ago
The US has stopped antagonizing Vietnam, and as a results its image there is quite good. Granted, it has been a hot minute since the Vietnam war.
ipv6ipv4 · 1h ago
The US was a short blip to the Vietnamese compared to China.
newyankee · 1h ago
that permanent revenge mode also goes beyond just US & Israel
ClumsyPilot · 3h ago
> hat the US does or doesn't do now will have any impact on Muslim extremists' desire for revenge

well current actions certainly aren't helping

nothercastle · 6h ago
This is going to get nasty really fast until defensive technology catches up a lot of really expensive targets are very vulnerable.

That being said all you really need to do is install defensive netting at bases. You don’t even need hangers so relatively inexpensive retrofit. That will probably cause drones to shift to dropped minions but at least those are less accurate.

stevenwoo · 8h ago
Anywhere, not just conflict zones. There was a decades long terror campaign against planned parenthood and other clinics in the USA and white supremacist nut jobs keep trying to start a race war every five to ten years with bombing and shooting sprees, the weekly school shooting in the USA, and there’s the using a vehicle worldwide for killing civilians by incels/fundamentalists of all stripes. This opens up a new venue for those inclined to act.
linhns · 8h ago
And laser guns for defence.
euroderf · 2h ago
And for defense of ships in port, they are mounted on sharks.
cosmicgadget · 8h ago
But we are quite close to having (prohibitively expensive) flying cars!
declan_roberts · 2h ago
This is precisely why the United States wants to keep the war in Ukraine going forever.

We get to destroy an enemy by proxy and another country will take the punishment and blame for it.

It's perfect, as long as our ally doesn't run out of blood.

noduerme · 2h ago
If anything, the past several months have shown that the Ukrainians will keep fighting without American support, and want to keep fighting, because the only other choice would be surrender and enslavement. Having said that, America and the EU do get something out of supporting Ukrainian sovereignty. And it's not just damage to Russian military capacity, it's deterrence against Russian imperial expansion all along the frontier.
coderenegade · 41m ago
Yes, I've been saying this since the war started. The best thing for everyone is obviously no war, but the second best is a long, hard, and bitter war for your enemy, especially if you don't have to be the one to fight it.

I don't see Ukraine winning this conflict in the long run, though, and if it goes on for too long, we'll see bitterness on the Ukrainian side directed at those they felt should have helped. Fighting to the last Ukrainian will eventually make an enemy of them imo.

tokai · 1h ago
If anything this happened because US has less leverage on Ukraine than ever. US has very consistently pressured Ukraine from strategic strikes into Russia. Turns out people other than Americans also have agency.
nkurz · 1h ago
> US has very consistently pressured Ukraine from strategic strikes into Russia.

This was previously true, but I thought this policy changed as of last week?

May 26 2025: US, UK and allies to lift all range restrictions on weapons in Ukraine

Ukraine’s western allies, including the UK and the US, have agreed to lift all remaining range restrictions on the use of their weapons after President Trump issued his strongest criticism of President Putin yet.

https://www.thetimes.com/world/russia-ukraine-war/article/uk...

dmix · 1h ago
It's very likely the US played a big role in helping plan and provide intelligence for this.

It was one and a half years in the making.

seandoe · 1h ago
Apophenia
ericmay · 1h ago
One small nitpick - nobody who matters will or is blaming Ukraine for the war except far left and far right factions.

It is advantageous for the US to keep the war going to a point, but the real focus for the US is the Pacific and the US would prefer to not have to worry about Europe and Russia and instead focus on China. But the US isn’t able to end this war one way or another. Only Russia can end the war (aside from Ukraine no longer willingly defending their country) either willingly or by some sort of internal event, barring some miscalculation where they attack NATO forces. Some theorize Putin will do that to get defeated so he can save face but I don’t think that is likely.

getnormality · 28m ago
Too bad Putin wasn't brilliant enough to foil the evil US plan by not invading Ukraine.
dzhiurgis · 1h ago
Good. Send some nukes.

Make russia small again.

CamperBob2 · 1h ago
Just give Ukraine theirs back.