one (main) reason why popular in Norway - the government made EV purchases and leases exempt from a 25 percent value-added tax (VAT) — cutting thousands of dollars from the sticker prices — as well as from import and registration taxes.
magicalhippo · 1d ago
Another is lower road tolls. Used to be exempt, but it's been bumped a lot recently. Still much cheaper than dinosaur fueled cars though.
A third point is that quite a lot will have the option to charge at home. If you charge at night, prices can be dramatically lower than gas.
Assuming an consumption for a typical EV of 16 kWh / 100 km and an typical price of 1 NOK / kWh, that's 16 NOK per 100 km (or about $1.6).
If you take an typical ICE consumption of 5 liters / 100 km, and a typical pump price of 20 NOK / liter, that's 100 NOK per 100 km for the ICE (or about $10).
Of course during winter, electricity can be much more expensive than during summer, up to 4-5 NOK / kWh. But even at 5 NOK / kWh, it's still cheaper than gas.
I wonder about really cold locales where ICE cars either need to be plugged into block warmers when not running (e.g. in Alaska/Northern Canada) or are kept on constantly and/or put into car blankets (Russia Far East). Heck, I guess in Yakutsk, the trouble of keeping your oil/petrol/engine from freezing (hence the car blankets and a system that turns them on when they get too cold), an EV might pay off big in terms of being able to plug in when parked (and...you just need to top off the charge your battery is losing), although I guess a heat pump wouldn't be very effective in -50C?
audunw · 1d ago
There are many parts of Norway where it’s hard or impossible to start diesel cars without block heaters. EVs are indeed much easier to start and more reliable.
The postal service changes all jts vehicles on Svalbard to electric. Svalbard is an island close to the North Pole.
I think many EVs have resistive heating elements as backup to the heat pump? But it’s brutal on range of course.
seanmcdirmid · 7h ago
Ya, it makes me think that EVs are going to be even more popular in really cold climates, not less.
andsoitis · 1d ago
"The country is Europe’s largest oil and gas producer, which helps support Norwegians’ aspiration to live green. Norway has invested its fossil fuel profits into what has become the world’s largest sovereign wealth fund, a nest egg worth $1.7 trillion. Returns from that fund help cover government expenses, which in turn makes it easier to accommodate climate-friendly tax exemptions."
acyou · 1d ago
Ding ding ding! We have a winner!
And the market dominant Teslas, among others, are primarily built on Chinese battery supply chains, the Scandinavian battery manufacturer having going out of business (Northvolt).
So extracting selling oil and natural gas and taking the proceeds to buy strip mined heavy metal ticking time bomb of environmental catastrophe SUVs, and this makes people feel good. As if it would cancel things out.
Turns out it's pretty good to live in a country with huge amounts of natural resources, small population, non-existent immigration, and flexible self serving morals.
If you can't tell, I'm jealous that I'm not Norwegian, who wouldn't be?
audunw · 1d ago
Thinking EVs are an environmental catastrophe is completely disconnected from reality. There are already big battery recycling operations up and running with very good yields, and they just keep getting better and more efficient at recycling these batteries. So whatever impact we have from mining is mostly temporary, as the need for mining will fall off a cliff when all cars have been converted to EVs.
Tell me what EV activity related industrial activity comes remotely close to the Deepwater Horizen accident or the hundreds of other catastrophic oil spills? What part of EV production REQUIRED emitting pollution as part of its operations for all eternity? What part of EVs are burned as part of everyday driving?
The challenges of European battery manufacturers is just as much related to USAs IRA. Some of them shifter their efforts to the US as a result. The lesson is that EU needs to be as serious as China and USA in supporting their battery manufacturing industry.
There are now dozens of battery giga factories being built all over Europe so there is some progress at least.
Morrow in Norway is still doing OK for instance. It has its challenges like everyone in this difficult market. But with more and more tariffs and such on China I’m optimistic that it’ll work out.
netsharc · 23h ago
> non-existent immigration
You've never been to Norway, I guess?
A decade ago the rightwing dog-whistle synonym to this was the phrase "homogeneous society". Whenever I see it I think the writer thinks he's figured out a way to say "foreigners bad!" but in a more sophisticated way.
const_cast · 9h ago
Right, immigration has nothing to do with it.
There's a lot of countries that are homogeneous and are economic failures. And then the US, which has historically had A LOT of immigration, is still the biggest economic force on the planet. And those German, Chinese, Polish and what have you immigrants throughout American history is a big part of our success.
amai · 15h ago
The Arab countries on the other side use their money from oil to build a lot of shiny skyscrapers and golf courses in the desert. And Russia even uses its oil money to attack neighbor countries. Compared to that Norway really shines.
nojvek · 12h ago
America uses oil money to fund its military industrial complex.
China got no oil money, so they collect sunlight and build more energy capacity than everyone else combined.
Curse as a blessing.
throwawaii1923 · 1d ago
They use less than 3% of the fund each year, so while it is a large number it's used for more than just "climate-friendly tax exemptions"
magicalhippo · 12h ago
While it's less than 3% of the fund, it's about 25% of the national budget. So it's most certainly used to fund these exemptions and other political goals.
asdefghyk · 1d ago
I thought article would be about significant battery capacity loss in freezing weather - ie ( from Google ) ...Another study by Recurrent showed the loss can be up to 30% in cold weather between -7 and -1 degrees. In both studies car model and battery size mattered. So while you don't lose all your range, colder temperatures do affect your EV range......
but no mention of range loss in freezing weather ....
Upcoming sodium chemistries perform well down to -30C without the limitations lithium chemistries face. Preheat vehicle before leaving a charger, ensure sufficient EV charger density, etc.
Range loss during freezing weather only matters if you need that range during freezing weather. Given that most people are mainly commuting a relatively short distance it’s not really an issue.
If you’re charging at home you are topped up every morning anyway. My commute needs 10% battery and I honestly couldn’t tell you the winter impact because it doesn’t matter, just plug in at night and fully charged in the morning.
Also if you don’t do long trips in the winter and you can charge at home there are a few benefits:
* Remote/Timed defrost/pre-heat. There were probably 10 mornings last winter that I got into a fully defrosted and preheated car while the neighbours were scraping their windows.
* No need to visit petrol stations. This is an all-year thing but it is time saved and in the winter you’re not standing in a forecourt in those freezing conditions.
magicalhippo · 1d ago
Our Renault Megane e-Tech, starting from 80% battery, does about ~350 km during summer, and ~200-250 km during the cold of winter depending on outside temperature and who's in the car. It is quite noticeable, no doubt.
But it's been perfectly sufficient for us. We seldom travel that long during winter, and there's plenty of fast chargers around if we do. Typically one or two charging stops is all we need, and we'd have one stop for restrooms and drinks/snacks regardless.
When it's not biting cold, it's not something we think about. And our Renault is certainly not the best in the battery department.
Arnt · 1d ago
None of my friends who got an EV even mentioned it. "How's the new car?" Not a word about range loss. I guess the journalist didn't hear any either.
wqaatwt · 23h ago
Norway is not that cold, though. Temperatures in areas where most people live are rarely freezing
A third point is that quite a lot will have the option to charge at home. If you charge at night, prices can be dramatically lower than gas.
Assuming an consumption for a typical EV of 16 kWh / 100 km and an typical price of 1 NOK / kWh, that's 16 NOK per 100 km (or about $1.6).
If you take an typical ICE consumption of 5 liters / 100 km, and a typical pump price of 20 NOK / liter, that's 100 NOK per 100 km for the ICE (or about $10).
Of course during winter, electricity can be much more expensive than during summer, up to 4-5 NOK / kWh. But even at 5 NOK / kWh, it's still cheaper than gas.
The postal service changes all jts vehicles on Svalbard to electric. Svalbard is an island close to the North Pole.
I think many EVs have resistive heating elements as backup to the heat pump? But it’s brutal on range of course.
And the market dominant Teslas, among others, are primarily built on Chinese battery supply chains, the Scandinavian battery manufacturer having going out of business (Northvolt).
So extracting selling oil and natural gas and taking the proceeds to buy strip mined heavy metal ticking time bomb of environmental catastrophe SUVs, and this makes people feel good. As if it would cancel things out.
Turns out it's pretty good to live in a country with huge amounts of natural resources, small population, non-existent immigration, and flexible self serving morals.
If you can't tell, I'm jealous that I'm not Norwegian, who wouldn't be?
Tell me what EV activity related industrial activity comes remotely close to the Deepwater Horizen accident or the hundreds of other catastrophic oil spills? What part of EV production REQUIRED emitting pollution as part of its operations for all eternity? What part of EVs are burned as part of everyday driving?
The challenges of European battery manufacturers is just as much related to USAs IRA. Some of them shifter their efforts to the US as a result. The lesson is that EU needs to be as serious as China and USA in supporting their battery manufacturing industry.
There are now dozens of battery giga factories being built all over Europe so there is some progress at least.
Morrow in Norway is still doing OK for instance. It has its challenges like everyone in this difficult market. But with more and more tariffs and such on China I’m optimistic that it’ll work out.
You've never been to Norway, I guess?
A decade ago the rightwing dog-whistle synonym to this was the phrase "homogeneous society". Whenever I see it I think the writer thinks he's figured out a way to say "foreigners bad!" but in a more sophisticated way.
There's a lot of countries that are homogeneous and are economic failures. And then the US, which has historically had A LOT of immigration, is still the biggest economic force on the planet. And those German, Chinese, Polish and what have you immigrants throughout American history is a big part of our success.
China got no oil money, so they collect sunlight and build more energy capacity than everyone else combined.
Curse as a blessing.
but no mention of range loss in freezing weather ....
EVs work fine in the cold in Norway. Here’s how they do it Cold temperatures can affect an EV’s battery. But range issues can be averted if drivers are prepared - https://www.fastcompany.com/91011373/evs-work-fine-in-the-co... | https://archive.today/9B3ot - January 17th, 2024
Upcoming sodium chemistries perform well down to -30C without the limitations lithium chemistries face. Preheat vehicle before leaving a charger, ensure sufficient EV charger density, etc.
https://placetoplug.com/en/charging-stations/norway/map
If you’re charging at home you are topped up every morning anyway. My commute needs 10% battery and I honestly couldn’t tell you the winter impact because it doesn’t matter, just plug in at night and fully charged in the morning.
Also if you don’t do long trips in the winter and you can charge at home there are a few benefits:
* Remote/Timed defrost/pre-heat. There were probably 10 mornings last winter that I got into a fully defrosted and preheated car while the neighbours were scraping their windows.
* No need to visit petrol stations. This is an all-year thing but it is time saved and in the winter you’re not standing in a forecourt in those freezing conditions.
But it's been perfectly sufficient for us. We seldom travel that long during winter, and there's plenty of fast chargers around if we do. Typically one or two charging stops is all we need, and we'd have one stop for restrooms and drinks/snacks regardless.
When it's not biting cold, it's not something we think about. And our Renault is certainly not the best in the battery department.