> Instead, the accident was the result of a convergence of numerous deficiencies associated with all three, none of which were causal by themselves, but were causal in concert. Furthermore, the breadth and depth of the deficiencies identified in this investigation was such that it calls into question the safety of Russia’s entire aviation sector.
> I know as a matter of personal experience that there are many people in Russia who are genuinely dedicated to doing things right, and I have no doubt that many of them work in the aviation industry. Granted, many of the best have left since 2022, but plenty remain. The problem is that apathy has been enshrined on an institutional level, trapping the people who care under the weight of those who do not, or who choose not to for purposes of survival. Such a culture is not easily rooted out.
One thing that is very noticeable is that since 2022, incidents in Russia largely no longer show up on avherald. I'm not sure if this is because the website no longer reports them, or because reports are not made in Russia, but it makes me feel a lot less comfortable.
In general it has become incredibly hard to judge the safety of Russia's aviation from the west.
But we already know aviation safety in Russia is on a downward spiral, because the sanctions make it very difficult to get spare parts and, as the article notes, even notionally Russian aircraft like the SSJ-100 still rely on numerous Western parts.
I know, but last time I was looking they were all sourced from some telegram channels and none of had official data associated with it.
ekianjo · 42m ago
> rely on numerous Western parts.
Can't they get such western parts thru China?
rad_gruchalski · 38m ago
You mean "can China boycott sanctions"? They'd become sanctioned too, in no time.
user_7832 · 3h ago
Tangential: along with the admiral’s excellent reporting, does anyone have or know any other good sources to read up on aviation safety? The AOPA air safety institute is one I know of (they make excellent YouTube videos on their channel), and I’ve heard the NTSB themselves upload videos to their YT channel to. Any other names/sources?
brontitall · 2h ago
I assume you’re aware that Admiral Cloudberg writes for Mentour Pilot on YouTube.
Also, pretty low volume but also low sensationalism the Australian regulator, ATSB, posts report summaries on YouTube.
(Dan Gryder is, IMO, on the opposite end of the spectrum from Juan.)
VASAviation has a bunch of radar recreations, but if you’re new to aviation safety and never flown under ATC, you might not get as much from it as you would from a more commentary-based treatment: https://youtube.com/@vasaviation?si=__ZSdYSR1YgTOpge
ajb · 2h ago
I always check pprune (professional pilots rumour network) on any recent crashes, as many of the posters are pilots. However it's a forum so you have to wade through the usual idiots and arguments.
user_7832 · 3h ago
Just remembered: also Paul Bertorelli‘s videos on AVWeb, though he has now retired. They’re fun to watch even if you’re not primarily into aviation.
kynetic · 1h ago
> even the passengers, some of whom stopped to retrieve their carry-on bags while their countrymen burned.
I'm always astounded by the self-centeredness humans are capable of.
xoa · 1m ago
>I'm always astounded by the self-centeredness humans are capable of.
In this instance I'm sorry but this is the wrong take. The fantastic article directly addresses that in fact, and it jives with what I was taught as part of first responder and mountain rescue training in the US, as well as have heard from EMTs and volunteer firefighters I know:
>"However, research has shown that when untrained civilians are unexpectedly placed into an emergency aboard an aircraft, many people’s brains revert to what they already know, which is to stand up, grab their bags, and walk to the exit, as though nothing is wrong. This behavioral tendency can be short-circuited if the flight attendants loudly and assertively order passengers to leave their bags behind and exit immediately. But on flight 1492, the order to leave bags behind was not heard by the majority of the passengers because the senior flight attendant forgot to press the PA button before making the announcement."
Again, this jives with everything from military to emergency response of all sorts: in high stress maximal flight/fight rapid response sorts of situations, humans tend to (a) revert to whatever "muscle memory" or drilled in training they've got, if any, or else whatever basic instinct/patterns they've developed, (b) follow authoritative instructions, if available and simply/rapidly understandable, (c) panic, or (d) freeze up. Just as with everything else with safety, humans must be recognized as humans and be part of an overall systemic approach if we wish to improve outcomes as much as possible.
So if you're dealing with untrained random civilians who have no particular "muscle memory" to draw on beyond the typical, then crew procedures, aircraft design etc have to account for that. That's just part of the responsibility of running a civilian facing service involving life/safety. Better training for the cabin crew might have helped here just as better training could have prevented the situation happening at all, and identically better mechanical designs might also have helped and be worth considering in principle if this was frequent enough. This could range from how PA systems work (perhaps when an emergency landing is triggered, PA should automatically go to open mode and stay that way, or perhaps the evac warning including "LEAVE ALL BAGS BEHIND, EVACUATE NOW OR DIE" should be fully automated and just start broadcasting once emergency slides are deployed) to having overhead bins automatically seal and be impossible to open so somebody could at most spend a few seconds trying before realizing they can't (this would require actual study and cost/benefit tradeoff investigation of course). But the take away in disasters should not be any sort of moral one liner. These are massive systems with large numbers of people being forced to deal with a (literally here) by-the-second lethal scenario. Safety is a systemic issue.
One thing that is very noticeable is that since 2022, incidents in Russia largely no longer show up on avherald. I'm not sure if this is because the website no longer reports them, or because reports are not made in Russia, but it makes me feel a lot less comfortable.
In general it has become incredibly hard to judge the safety of Russia's aviation from the west.
But we already know aviation safety in Russia is on a downward spiral, because the sanctions make it very difficult to get spare parts and, as the article notes, even notionally Russian aircraft like the SSJ-100 still rely on numerous Western parts.
I know, but last time I was looking they were all sourced from some telegram channels and none of had official data associated with it.
Can't they get such western parts thru China?
Also, pretty low volume but also low sensationalism the Australian regulator, ATSB, posts report summaries on YouTube.
E.g. https://youtu.be/dum4SfnX8uk
(Dan Gryder is, IMO, on the opposite end of the spectrum from Juan.)
VASAviation has a bunch of radar recreations, but if you’re new to aviation safety and never flown under ATC, you might not get as much from it as you would from a more commentary-based treatment: https://youtube.com/@vasaviation?si=__ZSdYSR1YgTOpge
I'm always astounded by the self-centeredness humans are capable of.
In this instance I'm sorry but this is the wrong take. The fantastic article directly addresses that in fact, and it jives with what I was taught as part of first responder and mountain rescue training in the US, as well as have heard from EMTs and volunteer firefighters I know:
>"However, research has shown that when untrained civilians are unexpectedly placed into an emergency aboard an aircraft, many people’s brains revert to what they already know, which is to stand up, grab their bags, and walk to the exit, as though nothing is wrong. This behavioral tendency can be short-circuited if the flight attendants loudly and assertively order passengers to leave their bags behind and exit immediately. But on flight 1492, the order to leave bags behind was not heard by the majority of the passengers because the senior flight attendant forgot to press the PA button before making the announcement."
Again, this jives with everything from military to emergency response of all sorts: in high stress maximal flight/fight rapid response sorts of situations, humans tend to (a) revert to whatever "muscle memory" or drilled in training they've got, if any, or else whatever basic instinct/patterns they've developed, (b) follow authoritative instructions, if available and simply/rapidly understandable, (c) panic, or (d) freeze up. Just as with everything else with safety, humans must be recognized as humans and be part of an overall systemic approach if we wish to improve outcomes as much as possible.
So if you're dealing with untrained random civilians who have no particular "muscle memory" to draw on beyond the typical, then crew procedures, aircraft design etc have to account for that. That's just part of the responsibility of running a civilian facing service involving life/safety. Better training for the cabin crew might have helped here just as better training could have prevented the situation happening at all, and identically better mechanical designs might also have helped and be worth considering in principle if this was frequent enough. This could range from how PA systems work (perhaps when an emergency landing is triggered, PA should automatically go to open mode and stay that way, or perhaps the evac warning including "LEAVE ALL BAGS BEHIND, EVACUATE NOW OR DIE" should be fully automated and just start broadcasting once emergency slides are deployed) to having overhead bins automatically seal and be impossible to open so somebody could at most spend a few seconds trying before realizing they can't (this would require actual study and cost/benefit tradeoff investigation of course). But the take away in disasters should not be any sort of moral one liner. These are massive systems with large numbers of people being forced to deal with a (literally here) by-the-second lethal scenario. Safety is a systemic issue.