As if the US is expected to be good here? The region is important if you want to control the world.
dttze · 3h ago
US ruling class are Zionists. They are all part of the same club. Doesn’t matter if it is not in the interest of the US state, only that it benefits their own interests.
burnt-resistor · 3h ago
Sort of. There are at least two, overlapping aspects to Israel affinity: religion and money.
The Christian right are selective, fatalistic "Zionists" with magical thinking beliefs that, in their view, lasts until the apocalypse because they believe some Jews will convert and others will meet a bad end. Since they don't really care about Jews except as a means to end everything and meet Jesus, does that count as "Zionism"?
Rich, authoritarian criminals. Which is a bit redundant because "rich" suffices. Netanyahu and Trump are both in roughly similar predicaments compared to extreme examples like Putin and Kim Jong Un. They've done things to anger ordinary people but refuse to concede power for fear of prosecution or worse, and so do everything to insulate and extend their rules.
solumunus · 4h ago
It’s not a mystery in my opinion. Israeli and American intelligence are heavily involved with each other. Israel knows all of America’s deepest secrets. The financial ties run deep. Israel has been injecting large quantities of capital into US politics. All of this has been happening for half a century.
It’s only a mystery if you think we pick our allies solely on the basis of whether we think they’re a goody or baddy.
nielsbot · 4h ago
Zero sum game logic. Pursuit of power at the expense of everything else. Capitalism. Take your pick.
It's pretty disgusting.
AuthAuth · 5h ago
Geopolitics doesnt change because someone was mean. Its all about power and influence. Isreal is key for enacting and protecting American interests in the region. Whats happening in Palestine hurts in the short term but I think average people will forget about it in a year and the US foreign policy will be business as usual. Its brutal to think about but I cant see it going any other way, most of the people upset by whats going on had never heard about gaza before oct 7th.
nujabe · 4h ago
There is absolutely nothing critical to US national security that Israel can provide the United States. When you say “protecting American interests” what you really mean is protecting Israeli interests. America has no national security interest in Israeli settlement expansion in West Bank, Gaza & southern Syria.
The intelligence Israel does provide the US is related to conflicts & terrorist groups that wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for Israel itself.
Literally all the Middle East countries host US military bases and are puppet states of the US anyway so I don’t see how Israel provides any value.
“Israel is an albatross around America’s neck” - John Mearsheimer
So evidently a two state solution is off the table, and once all the Palestinians are driven away, a one state solution will become acceptable to Israel.
Is there some other way this could play out?
SilverElfin · 5h ago
Weren’t all two state proposals in the past rejected by one Palestinian leader or the other?
EdwardDiego · 5h ago
Only one Palestinian authority was recognized in the Oslo Accords as representing Palestine, and they've supported it since 1982.
Which is why Israel funded Hamas to weaken the PLO.
Netanyahu became PM in 1996. In his role as PM he signed follow up agreements to Oslo accords and handed over to PA control more parts west bank.
As cabinet minister (in 2004?) he voted 4 times in favor of disengagement from gaza and removal of all jews from there (both life and dead).
Later, when he became PM again, in speech that he gave he affirmed that he supports two state solution as long as palestinian state demilitarized (something that demand now all western countries that recognize it).
nielsbot · 4h ago
I imagine it will play out similarly to the genocide of the Native Americans: Ethnically cleansed or genocided. Any stragglers will live on reservations or the equivalent. Palestinians living under Israeli control will be subject to apartheid a la the Jim Crow South in the US.
I still have a slim hope that this outcome will be averted, but the odds of that lessen by the day.
burnt-resistor · 2h ago
Long-term Palestinian refugee camps are/were essentially urban reservations. Some have existed for decades and look kind of like cities. They are/were really, really small areas with very high density. Sort of like a concentration camp too.
burnt-resistor · 2h ago
If you think about it, a "two state solution" results in the a continuation of de facto apartheid. Israel controls identity cards, vehicle registration, and the civil registry of births and deaths. There's basically no way for Palestinians to have a complete and independent country at this point, and this is a shame and a crime that was intended.
The only viable, long-term, stable solution is abandonment of Zionism for a one state solution with a secular democracy that doesn't selectively enfranchise or disenfranchise people based on religious, ethnic, or racial identity. The problem right now is that millions of people are part of a cult and cult-adjacent who harbor beliefs of ethno-nationalist supremacy. History proves time and again that ethno-nationalist sentiment leads to war, murder, and genocide.
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nielsbot · 4h ago
> Israel approves controversial West Bank settlement project
Israel approves patently illegal West Bank settlement project
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7HqfqtlueI
The Christian right are selective, fatalistic "Zionists" with magical thinking beliefs that, in their view, lasts until the apocalypse because they believe some Jews will convert and others will meet a bad end. Since they don't really care about Jews except as a means to end everything and meet Jesus, does that count as "Zionism"?
Rich, authoritarian criminals. Which is a bit redundant because "rich" suffices. Netanyahu and Trump are both in roughly similar predicaments compared to extreme examples like Putin and Kim Jong Un. They've done things to anger ordinary people but refuse to concede power for fear of prosecution or worse, and so do everything to insulate and extend their rules.
It’s only a mystery if you think we pick our allies solely on the basis of whether we think they’re a goody or baddy.
It's pretty disgusting.
The intelligence Israel does provide the US is related to conflicts & terrorist groups that wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for Israel itself.
Literally all the Middle East countries host US military bases and are puppet states of the US anyway so I don’t see how Israel provides any value.
“Israel is an albatross around America’s neck” - John Mearsheimer
https://youtu.be/dqeGW4G_Bmo?si=D5ZiURk4IzFRwiIN
https://www.cato.org/commentary/israel-strategic-liability-u...
Is there some other way this could play out?
Which is why Israel funded Hamas to weaken the PLO.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up...
https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/article-748435
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/knesset-overwhe...
As cabinet minister (in 2004?) he voted 4 times in favor of disengagement from gaza and removal of all jews from there (both life and dead).
Later, when he became PM again, in speech that he gave he affirmed that he supports two state solution as long as palestinian state demilitarized (something that demand now all western countries that recognize it).
I still have a slim hope that this outcome will be averted, but the odds of that lessen by the day.
The only viable, long-term, stable solution is abandonment of Zionism for a one state solution with a secular democracy that doesn't selectively enfranchise or disenfranchise people based on religious, ethnic, or racial identity. The problem right now is that millions of people are part of a cult and cult-adjacent who harbor beliefs of ethno-nationalist supremacy. History proves time and again that ethno-nationalist sentiment leads to war, murder, and genocide.
No comments yet
Israel approves patently illegal West Bank settlement project