Incredible video. It's one piece of media that would shake the tech world, where it to be shown in 2017 through a time machine.
I wish this would gain more publicity. But I guess people are already desensitized for such news.
Centigonal · 3h ago
"If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked—if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in ’43 had come immediately after the ‘German Firm’ stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in ’33. But of course this isn’t the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D."
-They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45, Milton Mayer
herval · 3h ago
I recommend this book so often recently, I'm thinking about buying a dozen copies so I can give them away
> But I guess people are already desensitized for such news.
Apple can do no wrong in the eyes of consumers. Tim Cook could be caught on video clubbing seals and nobody would bat an eye.
seanmcdirmid · 1h ago
No, as long as Apple keeps putting out nice products, consumers will buy them. As soon as they stop, loyalty doesn't extend much to its leadership. Most consumers don't even know or care who Cook is. Think of it this way. Have you ever regretted buying a PC or Android? Then think about if you have ever regretted buying a Mac and/or iPhone. It is product execution. People who consistently buy apple just don't believe regret should be a part of buying a computing device.
Much of the Musk blowback has been magnified by Tesla just not being very good cars (even if they have a great charging network). Consumers would quickly forget about Musk being a scumbag if Tesla produced good cars again.
I'm surprised Cook was there. I'm sad that I'm surprised Cook was there.
I can likely get away from macOS by EOY. But this phone has a stranglehold on my mobile, digital life.
init2null · 1h ago
He has a shareholder duty to try for all the best-friend-forever preferential treatment he can get. We've recently learned that he's decent at diplomacy, but he's been honing it for years in China.
He isn't responsible for this oddly-personal political system as it is, but he has to take advantage of those weaknesses.
GuinansEyebrows · 2h ago
there's always the used option, along with minimizing your reliance on paid digital services provided by apple. i'm trying to move in that direction as much as possible.
bigyabai · 1h ago
> I'm surprised Cook was there.
You have had more than a decade to reconcile Tim Cook's friendship (or at least "business relationship") with Donald Trump.
If it disgusts you, then make a move. Cook isn't motivated by emotional pleas and the shareholders won't kick him out until he screws up as CEO.
cosmicgadget · 3h ago
Has anybody seen any funny allhands questions of these CEOs?
DazWilkin · 2h ago
If there are no consequences to bad behavior, bad people will behave badly.
None of these people will ever suffer any consequences for this.
RyanOD · 3h ago
It's hard for me not to believe every tech leader in this room is thinking, "This guy is a total idiot. I can't believe I have to sit here and kiss his ass. What a total waste of my time. But a CEO has to do what a CEO has to do...how can I take advantage of this mess."
geodel · 1h ago
That would be the case if CEO do not routinely waste innumerable hours on so many meetings, lunches, events etc with so many idiots filling the room. But may be "No punching down" theory demand to not call those people idiots.
llllm · 3h ago
To all of you reading this, that work for these CEOs, we laugh at you.
angiolillo · 44m ago
I certainly don't laugh at you. I've been in a similar situation and I know it can feel agonizing.
But if you find their behavior unconscionable and yet continue to work for Apple, Alphabet/Google, OpenAI, Microsoft, Meta/Facebook, Oracle, etc then you're doing the same thing as your CEO, just at a smaller scale -- swallowing your pride to keep your job.
I can't speak to anyone else's situation, but until I built up the courage to quit such a situation myself I never realized how much these compromises weighed on my soul.
geodel · 1h ago
Who is this grand "we"? Are you more than one person?
cosmicgadget · 3h ago
There are two types of employees: ones that work for a CEO that praises Trump and ones that work for a CEO too insignificant to be worth Trump's time. NEETs on parade.
llllm · 2h ago
Keep telling yourself that if it makes it easier for you to swallow.
cosmicgadget · 2h ago
I work for the latter, my friend.
llllm · 2h ago
My advice was not conditional on who you work for. We are not friends.
puppycodes · 1h ago
wow this is completely surreal
bb88 · 3h ago
This is what an oligarchy looks like. Apple, Google, Meta, etc, are on display here for who they really are.
apples_oranges · 3h ago
These news depressed me. Am I the only one who is saddened by this pathetic show by our industry leaders? Made me pessimistic about the future.
InsideOutSanta · 3h ago
This is devastating enough on its own. But what makes it even more troubling is that the United States has a president who demands such transparently false praise. What's going on in this man's head? Does he not understand that these people are lying to him because they are afraid of what he will do to their companies? Or does he know, and that is the point?
What in the world is wrong with this man?
karmakurtisaani · 1h ago
This is what kissing the ring looks like. It's a loyalty test.
In Soviet Union it was a sign of loyalty not to question obviously false statistics and news. In Joe Rogan's circles is laughing at his shit jokes and praising his comic abilities in his podcast.
wand3r · 3h ago
The power is real. The fear is real. The praise is the only fake thing.
dmonitor · 3h ago
It's about enforcing a power dynamic. Groveling and empty praise is about showing loyalty and control. Trump thinks enforcing this level of control over others is what success looks like.
shadowgovt · 3h ago
In general, when there are no consequences for people's actions they don't change those actions.
shadowgovt · 3h ago
At this point, it is really important for everyone in the industry to recognize that the industry leaders (in terms of "running the most successful companies") should not be considered ethical or moral leaders.
It's a categorical error. Like expecting a boat captain to be Descartes because they're good at leading people to operate a boat (or, for that matter, expecting Descartes to take first in a marathon because he was really good at applying logic to philosophical questions).
dwb · 1h ago
They may not be moral leaders, but I expect them to be leaders who are moral. Well, I don’t expect that they will be, but that’s my standard.
shadowgovt · 49m ago
And the key thing to recognize is that there's nothing in the system to enforce that standard. "Good at making money" or "Good at running a business" doesn't mean one is good at anything else, or, indeed, is good.
I think it's easy for people to make this error because humans like heroes; heroes simplify things. We want to believe that the people who are succeeding are succeeding because they're virtuous, not because (just spitballing here) the mechanisms we use to evaluate success are fundamentally detached from (if not opposed to) "virtue" as most people would understand the concept. if the latter is true, the world is far messier.
Sometimes it takes all those people voluntarily sitting at the same table as a convicted, unrepentant, and unpunished sexual abuser for the outside observer to "get" it.
Perhaps the still-open question is "Now what should one do with that knowledge?"
tastyface · 1h ago
Moral neutrality is one thing. It may be disappointing (but not unexpected) for the CEO of your favorite company to wine and dine the leader of an unsavory political party. But... this person is currently all over the news for being best friends with one of the most prolific pedophiles in America, as well as trying desperately to suppress the release of documents where he and prominent members of his circle may be implicated. This meeting is not just morally neutral, not just immoral, but utterly depraved.
GuinansEyebrows · 3h ago
let it be the curtain pulled back on how this class of people operates. just because we can see it now doesn't mean this kind of thing hasn't been happening behind the scenes for... ever.
not to excuse the brazenness of it - i'm as disgusted as you are.
ElevenLathe · 3h ago
The troubling fact is that the country's owners no longer feel the need to put on a show of democratic values. It's like witnessing Diocletian do away with the republican pretense of earlier emperors.
herval · 3h ago
I feel like this curtain drop started in earnest in tech as well, when Musk took over Twitter and declared (along with certain VC) that engineers are no longer "special" and need to be treated like cattle.
The entire industry gladly dropped their masks. Quite the irony, for a group of people that takes so much pride in "thinking different" and "changing the world".
mingus88 · 3h ago
Business has always been this way. It’s the nature of power.
It just so happens when you have a fragile ego in power, people seeking power will naturally play to that ego for a leg up.
We knew before 2015 that he was easy to manipulate. Easy to push his buttons, easy to flatter.
Frankly if you are a CEO in 2015 and you aren’t flattering this idiot to profit then you are violating your duties to your shareholders
angiolillo · 58m ago
A key factor in this calculus is that the current president holds a grudge whereas the vast majority of consumers, shareholders, and workers do not.
Unless a nontrivial number of the people who are outraged either boycott Apple, Alphabet/Google, OpenAI, Microsoft, Meta/Facebook, or sell their shares, or stop applying to work there then it'll prove that these CEOs were indeed making the right (financial) decision.
euroderf · 2h ago
If you're keeping score at home, that's one point for shareholders, and a big fat goose egg for any and all other stake-"holders".
_DeadFred_ · 1h ago
The Western system has roots in the Norman conquest of England. After 1066, land wasn’t held communally or with meaningful checks on aristocracy, as under the Anglo-Saxons. Instead, William the Conqueror carved up the country and handed it to his allies, creating a feudal landlord class that had no attachment to 'their' conquered peasants/community and whose only mandate was to extract maximum rent, so long as the higher lords and the crown got their cut. Instead of vanishing that rentier system evolved. Over centuries, the same logic of conquest and extraction was repackaged as “the market,” and eventually exported to the world through finance, trade, and empire.
What began as feudal rent-seeking in England scaled into global capitalism, a system where those at the top still practice Norman-style exploitation for maximum extraction with no care about those being extracted from. It's all Norman-style exploitation for maximum extraction, stripped of any sense of community, obligation, or service.
jordanpg · 3h ago
Indeed. It is a calibrated, lawyer-defined behavior called executing their fiduciary duties.
In other words, they are behaving as necessary (and as advised) to avoid later being exposed to a lawsuit.
herval · 3h ago
The cray part is they're doing it by openly doing stuff that's clearly and unambiguously classified as illegal (eg the gifts in exchange for benefits)
dragonwriter · 3h ago
This is routine; businesses don’t follow laws because they are laws, they follow laws to the extent that the perceived cost of violations exceed the perceived benefits. The whole reason the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act exist is to impose a domestic cost on foreign bribery by US entities to dissuade them from engaging in corruption abroad where enforcement is weak. But this President, who is explicit against that, is also very obviously, if less explicitly, also against enforcement of the laws against domestic corruption when it is him or his friends benefiting. So, there is literally no cost to weigh against the benefits.
mingus88 · 3h ago
As always, in business, if the penalty for breaking the law is less than the benefit you get out of the violation, then you have to go for it.
Or your competitors will. It’s the cost of doing business.
sjsdaiuasgdia · 3h ago
>Frankly if you are a CEO in 2015 and you aren’t flattering this idiot to profit then you are violating your duties to your shareholders
It's all fun and games til his policies crash the economy.
Short-sighted perspectives yet again. Short term gains at the cost of long term viability.
tastyface · 2h ago
Just as a reminder, the person these CEOs are cheerfully meeting with is either a brutal pedophile, or at the very least, the documented best friend of one of the most prolific and notorious pedophiles in America -- someone the administration is trying to wipe from the news cycle through any means necessary, including pampering his co-conspirator/co-rapist and claiming the whole thing is some sort of Democratic hoax. Lies upon lies to conceal the rape of countless children in service of the glorious Party. But these tech magnates don’t give an iota of a shit as long as the money keeps flowing in.
This is some real end-of-a-republic degeneracy. Decades down the line, people will point to these events in history books to show that we weren’t remotely as civilized as we thought. In a just world everyone at this table would spend their retirement years in a cell.
The view from 'the other side' (from most of the HN readership that is) where the invited CEOs are seen as Some Of The Right’s Biggest Villains - i.e. nobody likes them. For many conservatives, it’s hard to wrap your brain around the visual of billionaire Bill Gates being seated next to a smiling Melania Trump at the recent event, especially given Gates’ villain-like status among Trump’s most loyal base.
I wish this would gain more publicity. But I guess people are already desensitized for such news.
-They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45, Milton Mayer
> But I guess people are already desensitized for such news.
Apple can do no wrong in the eyes of consumers. Tim Cook could be caught on video clubbing seals and nobody would bat an eye.
Much of the Musk blowback has been magnified by Tesla just not being very good cars (even if they have a great charging network). Consumers would quickly forget about Musk being a scumbag if Tesla produced good cars again.
I'm surprised Cook was there. I'm sad that I'm surprised Cook was there.
I can likely get away from macOS by EOY. But this phone has a stranglehold on my mobile, digital life.
He isn't responsible for this oddly-personal political system as it is, but he has to take advantage of those weaknesses.
You have had more than a decade to reconcile Tim Cook's friendship (or at least "business relationship") with Donald Trump.
If it disgusts you, then make a move. Cook isn't motivated by emotional pleas and the shareholders won't kick him out until he screws up as CEO.
None of these people will ever suffer any consequences for this.
But if you find their behavior unconscionable and yet continue to work for Apple, Alphabet/Google, OpenAI, Microsoft, Meta/Facebook, Oracle, etc then you're doing the same thing as your CEO, just at a smaller scale -- swallowing your pride to keep your job.
I can't speak to anyone else's situation, but until I built up the courage to quit such a situation myself I never realized how much these compromises weighed on my soul.
What in the world is wrong with this man?
In Soviet Union it was a sign of loyalty not to question obviously false statistics and news. In Joe Rogan's circles is laughing at his shit jokes and praising his comic abilities in his podcast.
It's a categorical error. Like expecting a boat captain to be Descartes because they're good at leading people to operate a boat (or, for that matter, expecting Descartes to take first in a marathon because he was really good at applying logic to philosophical questions).
I think it's easy for people to make this error because humans like heroes; heroes simplify things. We want to believe that the people who are succeeding are succeeding because they're virtuous, not because (just spitballing here) the mechanisms we use to evaluate success are fundamentally detached from (if not opposed to) "virtue" as most people would understand the concept. if the latter is true, the world is far messier.
Sometimes it takes all those people voluntarily sitting at the same table as a convicted, unrepentant, and unpunished sexual abuser for the outside observer to "get" it.
Perhaps the still-open question is "Now what should one do with that knowledge?"
not to excuse the brazenness of it - i'm as disgusted as you are.
The entire industry gladly dropped their masks. Quite the irony, for a group of people that takes so much pride in "thinking different" and "changing the world".
It just so happens when you have a fragile ego in power, people seeking power will naturally play to that ego for a leg up.
We knew before 2015 that he was easy to manipulate. Easy to push his buttons, easy to flatter.
Frankly if you are a CEO in 2015 and you aren’t flattering this idiot to profit then you are violating your duties to your shareholders
Unless a nontrivial number of the people who are outraged either boycott Apple, Alphabet/Google, OpenAI, Microsoft, Meta/Facebook, or sell their shares, or stop applying to work there then it'll prove that these CEOs were indeed making the right (financial) decision.
What began as feudal rent-seeking in England scaled into global capitalism, a system where those at the top still practice Norman-style exploitation for maximum extraction with no care about those being extracted from. It's all Norman-style exploitation for maximum extraction, stripped of any sense of community, obligation, or service.
In other words, they are behaving as necessary (and as advised) to avoid later being exposed to a lawsuit.
Or your competitors will. It’s the cost of doing business.
It's all fun and games til his policies crash the economy.
Short-sighted perspectives yet again. Short term gains at the cost of long term viability.
This is some real end-of-a-republic degeneracy. Decades down the line, people will point to these events in history books to show that we weren’t remotely as civilized as we thought. In a just world everyone at this table would spend their retirement years in a cell.
The view from 'the other side' (from most of the HN readership that is) where the invited CEOs are seen as Some Of The Right’s Biggest Villains - i.e. nobody likes them. For many conservatives, it’s hard to wrap your brain around the visual of billionaire Bill Gates being seated next to a smiling Melania Trump at the recent event, especially given Gates’ villain-like status among Trump’s most loyal base.