Cool study. I really want to believe the results, but the effect on life extension is so large (see figure 2B) that I find it hard to. Maybe there was some uncontrolled confounding factor? It is noted in the 'Methods' section that 'Researchers were not blinded to group allocation [...]', which is unfortunate.
andoando · 13h ago
5mg/kg? 1g of shrooms has something like 5-20mg of psilocybin. An equivalent human dose would seem to be 1.3-2.6g a day
Edit: Did the math wrong.
samtp · 13h ago
Well your perception of time would certainly be longer at that dose. Probably feel like you've lived for centuries.
firtoz · 3h ago
I can confirm. The wheel turned many times.
titanomachy · 12h ago
I don’t think you multiplied quite right. An 80-kg person would need 400mg, which would take 40g of shrooms if potency is 10mg per dried gram.
That would still be 10 times larger than a regular dose. I think that would make most people seriously ill, not to mention the mental effects. One must assume that mice respond differently than humans.
And the study calculates it a 5mg for rats as 25mg for humans.
leoh · 12h ago
After a few days, such a dose would likely become imperceptible in “healthy normals.”
shawabawa3 · 12h ago
Your two statements contradict
If 1g of shrooms has 5mg psilocybin, to get a dose of 5mg/kg would be like 75g for an average man (still feels very high but nowhere near 1kg)
andoando · 12h ago
Sorry did the math completely wrong. And this was a monthly dose, for 75g thats ~2.5g a day
tombakt · 13h ago
Ah yes, a proper morning routine. A bit of coffee, exercise, becoming one with the void…
neom · 12h ago
"First, we sought to model high-dose used in a clinical study for chronic pain, where patients were administered a psychedelic dose (25 mg) of psilocybin. Using the standard allometric scaling method, a human dose of 25 mg of psilocybin translates to a mouse dose of approximately 5.14 mg/kg."
andoando · 12h ago
Interesting. I thought linear would obviously be incorrect, but didn't think it scaled so strongly.
At 25mg, thats 2.5g first month and 7.5g monthly afterwards. I wonder if the effects are the same with monthly injections vs daily though.
mekoka · 11h ago
Two things.
First, please correct me if I'm wrong, but is it possible that the article made a mistake either in the dosages or the substance that was administered? It calls 5mg/kg of psilocybin a low dose. To me, this is an insanely high amount if we're really talking pure psilocybin (not psilocybin mushrooms). Johns Hopkins reported treating people with (high) therapeutic doses of psilocybin (not mushrooms) of between 20mg and 30mg per 70kg. In strictly mushroom weight, that's anything between 3g and 5g of dried cubensis. If the article is correct, what they administer those mice is the equivalent of giving a 70kg human 350mg of psilocybin (as a low dose lol), or about 50g-60g of dried mushrooms to munch on? I hope the article made a mistake, rather than someone from the research team misread the recommended dosage.
EDIT: According to my limited search, a 12-weeks old lab rat could weight anything between 0.25-0.5kg. At 5mg-15mg/kg, that's approximately 1.25-2.50mg for low doses of psilocybin and 3.75-7.5mg for high doses. I don't find this as outrageous as originally. It could work if we take into consideration that brain size is probably a more significant factor than body mass.
Second.
> this study suggests that psilocybin impacts multiple hallmarks of aging by reducing oxidative stress, improving DNA repair responses, and preserving telomere length. Telomeres are the structured ends of a chromosome, protecting it from damage that could lead to the formation of age-related diseases, such as cancer, neurodegeneration or cardiovascular disease. These foundational processes influence human aging and the onset of these chronic diseases.
Unless I misunderstand what I'm reading, I wouldn't say that it's really psilocybin (the chemical) that's responsible. It's the taking then subsequent tripping. It's now known that without the trip, no benefit. If my intuition is correct, it could be that LSD along with a few other psychedelics (and associated practices) might affect you in a similar way over the long run.
Out_of_Characte · 10h ago
Dosing seems correct, they established that psilocin (the metabolite of psilocybin ) increases lifespan. The on hand mouse expert likely understood roughly how much psilocybin could be metabolised safely by the mouse.
The mice also had some head jerk indicating that they were under influence and they also established that the mice didn't lose more weight compared to the control group.
Some comparisons between animals and humans just aren't compatible with understanding dose and volume. Some smaller animals eat their weight in food, I just wouldn't recommend basing your own dietary fiber intake on that.
andoando · 10h ago
Take a look at allometric scaling.
"The rationale for dosing regimen utilized was based on a number of factors. First, we sought to model high-dose used in a clinical study for chronic pain, where patients were administered a psychedelic dose (25mg) of psilocybin. Using the standard allometric scaling method, a human dose of 25 mg of psilocybin translates to a mouse dose of 5.14 mg/kg; "
andoando · 10h ago
>It's the taking then subsequent tripping. It's now known that without the trip, no benefit.
Why would "tripping" be the cause of reduced oxidative dress, DNA repair responses and preserving telomere length?
mekoka · 5h ago
I likely misunderstood the article or inferred the wrong thing. The study is indeed very focused on the effects of psilocin/psilocybin. The monthly spacing of doses threw me in a different trajectory.
gaudystead · 10h ago
If anyone has yet to see it, there's a current show called "Common Side Effects" that has a similar vein of thought to this study (a mycologist discovers a mushroom capable of healing illnesses, wounds, and even restoring life to dead creatures, humans included). Highly recommend if you can get past it being animated.
atombender · 10h ago
Fantastic show. The co-creator, Joseph Bennett, also co-created Scavengers Reign, which is a masterpiece. While more obviously science fiction, it shares some thematic and aesthetic similarities with Common Side Effects.
mettamage · 2h ago
Yea, that's how I found out about the show Scavengers Reign is one of the best shows I've ever seen. While I really like Common Side Effects, the way Scavengers Reign was done is really hard to beat.
mettamage · 2h ago
> Highly recommend if you can get past it being animated.
I actually liked it more because it was animated. Trippy worlds are more fun to see animated.
kubb · 13h ago
Time to get some shrooms. I could really do with isolated psilocybin capsules though, the taste is terrible.
dpc050505 · 13h ago
Grind them into powder, mix them to melted semi-sweet chocolate at low heat, pour into ice cube trays and let it harden.
dkenyser · 13h ago
Look up lemontek. Drastically shortens the experience, makes it much more consistent and the lemon juice overwhelms the flavor of the mushrooms.
hombre_fatal · 12h ago
Man, trying to look up "lemon tek shrooms" was worse than navigating the worst food recipe websites.
Alllll that text just to say "grind/soak the shrooms in lemon juice first and it will hit harder and last shorter".
gooodvibes · 12h ago
It's so unnecessary though. You can just eat them as they are, no need to fuss around with grinding and soaking.
e40 · 13h ago
I wonder if the taste is mainly responsible for people throwing up? Done capsules and never had a problem that particular symptom.
andoando · 13h ago
No I dont think so. Mushroom outer layer is chitin-glucan complex which is really hard for our digestive system to process.
Lemon-trek is supposed to help by 1. griding it to a powder, and 2. Putting it in a lemon solution to help do some of that breaking down process
titanomachy · 12h ago
I’ve heard this a lot, but I think a good part of the nausea is caused by the same compounds as the psychedelia. LSD seems to cause just as much nausea, and it’s a tiny droplet of liquid absorbed through the mucous membranes.
andoando · 12h ago
I haven't experienced stomach issues from LSD, though I haven't always experienced them on shrooms either, so I don't know
metadaemon · 13h ago
I think it's person to person, I've never had any stomach issues at all.
basisword · 12h ago
I feel like even normal mushrooms can make you queasy if you eat too many, they are undercooked, or you're already feeling a little ill.
zoklet-enjoyer · 13h ago
I get motion sick when I hallucinate. I think LSD is the only one that never made my tummy rumble
basisword · 12h ago
As someone who gets motion sick very easily you have put me off mushrooms. Hours of motion sickness while high sounds atrocious.
zoklet-enjoyer · 10h ago
Look at this optical illusion and then look at a wall. That's pretty much what it looks like when people say walls are breathing. Add in tracers and closed eye visuals and it can get to be too much.
You can buy gelatin capsules on amazon and powder it yourself.
throwaway743 · 13h ago
If you grow them yourself they taste pretty fine. Unsure if not using manure improved the taste though.
dpc050505 · 13h ago
I find it's not the taste but the texture when they get stuck in my teeth.
zoklet-enjoyer · 13h ago
4-aco-dmt is what you want
tpm · 35m ago
Exactly, pure chemicals are the way to go.
gooodvibes · 12h ago
Nice. Although even if it shortened it, it would still be worth taking.
fny · 10h ago
Can someone comment on why SSRIs wouldnt have a similar effect? The hypothesis seems to be seratonin affects aging. Does it matter where it comes from?
puppycodes · 12h ago
the only catch is you eventually become a stage 3 guild navigator
mosferatu · 12h ago
This comment made me laugh harder than it should have.
nntwozz · 12h ago
The spice must flow!
evanjrowley · 12h ago
They feed us poison
so we take their 'cures'
while they suppress our medicine.
foobarian · 13h ago
Wonder if the extra lifespan time is larger than the extra time spent mentally incapacitated due to the effects of the drug.
jimbo808 · 13h ago
There are a lot of ways I could describe the experience, but mentally incapacitated definitely wouldn't be among them.
TechDebtDevin · 12h ago
people literally shoot themselves in the head because of this drug, this whole popularization of these drugs is the dumbest shit I've ver seen.
anonym29 · 6h ago
Sober people shoot themselves in the head at much higher rates.
wileydragonfly · 11h ago
Meh let them do it. They’re annoying to deal with but it’ll make success easier for the rest of us. (And we totally know they’re high despite what they think)
jimbo808 · 11h ago
I physically cringed
hagbard_c · 12h ago
> people literally shoot themselves in the head
How does that work? I would have understood this if it said people shoot themselves in the head or - if you insist - people physically/actually/sometimes/even shoot themselves in the head, it would be people taking up ballistic weapons which they point at their heads and fire away. Literal shooting on the other hand sounds like something Chekov would write about, something about the rifle above the fireplace in chapter 1 which needs to have been used by the next chapter [1].
Maybe I'm taking all the superfluous use of the word literally too literal?
"People do this, people do that ..." Unless you're speaking from personal experience or have some hard data, you're spewing utter BS, you're doing this now. Teach yourself!
MathMonkeyMan · 13h ago
I thought that the trip was the point.
titanomachy · 12h ago
Probably, I think they just did it once per month.
itake · 13h ago
that is how I feel about exercise... spending 10 hours per week in my youth at a gym for 40 years to buy me an extra 10-20 years at the end of my life.
Etheryte · 12h ago
This is misguided. A healthy lifestyle doesn't simply mean extra decades at the end of your life and everything else remains the same. It means many health issues also start later and you have more healthy years available to in your younger years as well. Many turn 30 and already find some things ache or don't work quite the right way. Take care of your body and those risks drastically go down, it doesn't take ten hours a week.
itake · 11h ago
> Many turn 30 and already find some things ache or don't work quite the right way
it also goes the other direction: Men in their 20s and 30s get hurt doing the same risky activities they did in high school (rock climbing, basketball, soccer, etc) resulting in lower back pain, damaged hands, etc.
mettamage · 2h ago
I recommend swimming.
I'm a runner, but yea also a bit injury prone, especially on the knees.
Thanks for helping people understand this concept!
fsloth · 12h ago
It’s not about buying extra years but making your life a hole lotta better as well.
Am not kidding. I hated exercise, I still hate it, but it objectively makes everything else so much better I keep at it.
There are simple and effective protocols. You don’t need to be ”in to it”. You don’t need to buy extra equipment (necessarily) nor do you need purchase anything from anyone (unless you want to).
Running, pushups and kettle bell swings are enough (with a good strategy). Having a daily stretching/mobility routine is advisable the older you get.
Just do it! If you think it will totally suck, it probably will! If the question ”what are you training for” irritates you it sure as hell will keep irritating. There are _zero_ lifestyle things you need to buy into. But it’s medicine. Pure medicine.
mettamage · 2h ago
Could you share some YouTube videos of good exercises?
You're the type of person I'd follow advice from because I hate exercise too, lol.
Noumenon72 · 13h ago
Exercise starts paying off in midlife by fixing your back pain, letting you go trampolining, steadying your balance, not getting winded or having to breathe through your mouth on stairs, and just generally making your body spend its repair cycles on things that make you feel healthy instead of inflamed. I develop so many aches and pains that exercise helps fix. Without the exercise you might not even want the extra 10-20 years.
andoando · 13h ago
It's not just about the extra life span, it's the quality of life until then.
I wish the same focus was given to weight loss, smoking, etc. No one really cares about living an extra 10 years from 70 to 80 if it means giving up 40+ yesrs of enjoying bad habits.
Exercise is especially neat because there are enjoyable ways to do it
SketchySeaBeast · 12h ago
And it pays off today. You feel better, both physically and emotionally. It's a win win all around.
jader201 · 12h ago
> I wish the same focus was given to weight loss, smoking, etc. No one really cares about living an extra 10 years from 70 to 80 if it means giving up 40+ yesrs of enjoying bad habits.
It’s the same thing, right?
That is, exercise may not necessarily make your life longer, but has a good chance of making your life higher quality.
Similarly, bad habits can shorten your life, and even if it doesn’t, will most definitely make your life lower quality (eventually).
Or maybe that’s the point you were making?
andoando · 12h ago
I mean most of the anti-smoking, weight-loss, campaigns are focused on trying to convince people thats its bad for you because it increases the chance of lung cancer, or heart morbidity. Ergo, you shouldn't do them because you won't live as long.
Instead, I think we need to focus on "you'll feel better, like right now".
maplant · 13h ago
Exercising makes you feel better. It’s a necessary component of living a good life. Extending your life is irrelevant. However, strength training is necessary to ensure the later parts of your life are worth living
cherryteastain · 12h ago
> Exercising makes you feel better
Speak for yourself...
henry2023 · 13h ago
10-20 extra years + another 15 high quality years in your 60s
Finally, exercise is not only gym, hiking, climbing, running, the list is endless
zafka · 6h ago
I love the idea of 15 years in my 60s, I guess you are do the calculations in Hexadecimal.
louison11 · 11h ago
30 min a day or 3hrs a week in a gym is all you need. I’ve been working out for 10 years, and if I can pull 3 hours in 1 week, it’s a great week! And it’ll keep me real strong. Plus, makes you sleep better, which means you probably need to sleep less. Working out is almost always a “you get more than what you gave” kinda deal.
dtauzell · 13h ago
The main advantage is to make the last 10-20 years better by avoiding injury. Maybe you do t even need 10 hours a week for that, more like 5
ravenstine · 12h ago
Who says you have to spend that much time in the gym? Unless you're really going for pro, nutrition and maintaining healthy blood pressure will get you most if not all the way to a longer lifespan while saving you countless hours. Even just an hour of high intensity exercise a week can maintain muscle and provide cardiovascular benefits.
make3 · 13h ago
you can do 3 hours and have huge benefits already
SketchySeaBeast · 13h ago
Yeah, 10 hours a week is totally unneeded.
apwell23 · 12h ago
ppl who feel that way won't be able do it for that long, so kind of moot point anyways.
i have worked out for atleast 3 times /week for last 30yrs. It has always been my fav part of my day.
zoklet-enjoyer · 13h ago
Go running, hiking, cycling, kayaking, rock climbing, snowshoeing, skiing, etc
There are plenty of fun ways to exercise where you won't be stuck in a gym using a machine or just repeatedly lifting heavy things.
trhway · 11h ago
even if it is the same, you're still end up farther into the future where iPhones are even more advanced.
lawlessone · 13h ago
So it's Spice?
manmal · 13h ago
It’s definitely geriatric.
SketchySeaBeast · 13h ago
Geriatric spice was the worst spice girl.
tombakt · 13h ago
Melange.
EvanAnderson · 12h ago
Press release titles really need to say "in vitro" and/or "in mice" when the study was done only in vitro and/or in mice.
tomhow · 12h ago
We've inmiced the title.
EvanAnderson · 12h ago
Thank you! I wish PR offices would do that themselves. So many health study press releases need the words "in mice" appended to the title.
EGreg · 13h ago
By how much does it actually extend it?
Vegetarians live 10 years longer than meat-eaters.
Some studies indicate that vegetarians may live an average of 6 to 10 years longer than meat-eaters, with some studies showing even larger differences for those who switch to a plant-based diet early in life.
amanaplanacanal · 12h ago
People following any kind of intentional diet live longer than average. Because they are people that care any their health, not because of whichever diet they choose.
isatty · 12h ago
Citation?
bena · 12h ago
It sounds familiar, but it's one of those things that's secretly checking something else.
Vegetarians are generally more conscious of their health than omnivores. Because you have to realize that omnivores includes the vast majority of people.
Edit: Did the math wrong.
That would still be 10 times larger than a regular dose. I think that would make most people seriously ill, not to mention the mental effects. One must assume that mice respond differently than humans.
And the study calculates it a 5mg for rats as 25mg for humans.
If 1g of shrooms has 5mg psilocybin, to get a dose of 5mg/kg would be like 75g for an average man (still feels very high but nowhere near 1kg)
At 25mg, thats 2.5g first month and 7.5g monthly afterwards. I wonder if the effects are the same with monthly injections vs daily though.
First, please correct me if I'm wrong, but is it possible that the article made a mistake either in the dosages or the substance that was administered? It calls 5mg/kg of psilocybin a low dose. To me, this is an insanely high amount if we're really talking pure psilocybin (not psilocybin mushrooms). Johns Hopkins reported treating people with (high) therapeutic doses of psilocybin (not mushrooms) of between 20mg and 30mg per 70kg. In strictly mushroom weight, that's anything between 3g and 5g of dried cubensis. If the article is correct, what they administer those mice is the equivalent of giving a 70kg human 350mg of psilocybin (as a low dose lol), or about 50g-60g of dried mushrooms to munch on? I hope the article made a mistake, rather than someone from the research team misread the recommended dosage.
EDIT: According to my limited search, a 12-weeks old lab rat could weight anything between 0.25-0.5kg. At 5mg-15mg/kg, that's approximately 1.25-2.50mg for low doses of psilocybin and 3.75-7.5mg for high doses. I don't find this as outrageous as originally. It could work if we take into consideration that brain size is probably a more significant factor than body mass.
Second.
> this study suggests that psilocybin impacts multiple hallmarks of aging by reducing oxidative stress, improving DNA repair responses, and preserving telomere length. Telomeres are the structured ends of a chromosome, protecting it from damage that could lead to the formation of age-related diseases, such as cancer, neurodegeneration or cardiovascular disease. These foundational processes influence human aging and the onset of these chronic diseases.
Unless I misunderstand what I'm reading, I wouldn't say that it's really psilocybin (the chemical) that's responsible. It's the taking then subsequent tripping. It's now known that without the trip, no benefit. If my intuition is correct, it could be that LSD along with a few other psychedelics (and associated practices) might affect you in a similar way over the long run.
Some comparisons between animals and humans just aren't compatible with understanding dose and volume. Some smaller animals eat their weight in food, I just wouldn't recommend basing your own dietary fiber intake on that.
Why would "tripping" be the cause of reduced oxidative dress, DNA repair responses and preserving telomere length?
I actually liked it more because it was animated. Trippy worlds are more fun to see animated.
Alllll that text just to say "grind/soak the shrooms in lemon juice first and it will hit harder and last shorter".
Lemon-trek is supposed to help by 1. griding it to a powder, and 2. Putting it in a lemon solution to help do some of that breaking down process
https://youtu.be/0GulnkYQcKY
so we take their 'cures'
while they suppress our medicine.
How does that work? I would have understood this if it said people shoot themselves in the head or - if you insist - people physically/actually/sometimes/even shoot themselves in the head, it would be people taking up ballistic weapons which they point at their heads and fire away. Literal shooting on the other hand sounds like something Chekov would write about, something about the rifle above the fireplace in chapter 1 which needs to have been used by the next chapter [1].
Maybe I'm taking all the superfluous use of the word literally too literal?
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov%27s_gun
it also goes the other direction: Men in their 20s and 30s get hurt doing the same risky activities they did in high school (rock climbing, basketball, soccer, etc) resulting in lower back pain, damaged hands, etc.
I'm a runner, but yea also a bit injury prone, especially on the knees.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disability-adjusted_life_yea...
Thanks for helping people understand this concept!
Am not kidding. I hated exercise, I still hate it, but it objectively makes everything else so much better I keep at it.
There are simple and effective protocols. You don’t need to be ”in to it”. You don’t need to buy extra equipment (necessarily) nor do you need purchase anything from anyone (unless you want to).
Running, pushups and kettle bell swings are enough (with a good strategy). Having a daily stretching/mobility routine is advisable the older you get.
Just do it! If you think it will totally suck, it probably will! If the question ”what are you training for” irritates you it sure as hell will keep irritating. There are _zero_ lifestyle things you need to buy into. But it’s medicine. Pure medicine.
You're the type of person I'd follow advice from because I hate exercise too, lol.
I wish the same focus was given to weight loss, smoking, etc. No one really cares about living an extra 10 years from 70 to 80 if it means giving up 40+ yesrs of enjoying bad habits.
Exercise is especially neat because there are enjoyable ways to do it
It’s the same thing, right?
That is, exercise may not necessarily make your life longer, but has a good chance of making your life higher quality.
Similarly, bad habits can shorten your life, and even if it doesn’t, will most definitely make your life lower quality (eventually).
Or maybe that’s the point you were making?
Instead, I think we need to focus on "you'll feel better, like right now".
Speak for yourself...
Finally, exercise is not only gym, hiking, climbing, running, the list is endless
i have worked out for atleast 3 times /week for last 30yrs. It has always been my fav part of my day.
There are plenty of fun ways to exercise where you won't be stuck in a gym using a machine or just repeatedly lifting heavy things.
Vegetarians live 10 years longer than meat-eaters.
Some studies indicate that vegetarians may live an average of 6 to 10 years longer than meat-eaters, with some studies showing even larger differences for those who switch to a plant-based diet early in life.
Vegetarians are generally more conscious of their health than omnivores. Because you have to realize that omnivores includes the vast majority of people.