Ask HN: Help me navigate a PIP at a remote startup in the Netherlands

18 msoad 14 7/24/2025, 12:12:49 PM
Hey HN,

I'm in a tough spot and could use some outside perspective, especially from anyone who's navigated startup politics or EU/Dutch employment law.

I'm a senior engineer with a background at bigger tech companies in the US. A few months ago, I took a job at a small-ish (around 150 people), fully remote tech startup based in Europe. The pay is good for the EU, though definitely a big step down from my US salary. The main reason for the move was to get a visa and work in Europe, and the project (AI stuff) seemed really exciting.

It's been a chaotic ride. The project has been in a constant "prototyping" phase, with the product direction pivoting at least 4-5 times since I joined. As the main frontend dev, I've been building and refactoring constantly to keep up. It's been high-pressure, but I thought we were making good progress.

Recently, things took a sharp turn. My manager, who is new to management and I report directly to, put me on a formal PIP. This was a total shock, as it was literally the first time he'd ever given me any formal managerial feedback. We've never had a single 1-on-1. The reasons cited in the PIP are subjective things like "code quality" and "seniority."

The part that feels off is that the "messy" code they're pointing to is a direct result of the constant pivots and the "move fast" culture we've all been working in. My manager's own PRs have introduced critical bugs that I've had to stay late to fix. It feels less like a real performance issue and more like they needed a scapegoat because the project is under pressure.

Now things are escalating. I was recently excluded from a key project Slack channel where launch feedback was being shared. And I just got an automated email asking me to sign a contract amendment that cuts my salary by nearly 20%.

I know my contract (permanent, Dutch) gives me strong protections, and I've started pushing back on the procedural flaws with HR, which seems to be working. I'm documenting everything.

My question for the HN community is:

1) For those who've been in a similar startup PIP situation, what's the real end game here? Is this a genuine attempt to "improve" me, or is it just the first step in managing me out?

2) Any advice on how to handle the day-to-day emotional drain of working with a manager who you feel is actively trying to undermine you, while still needing to be "professional" and collaborative on PRs?

3) Are they trying to pressure me into quitting or accepting a lowball settlement offer (VSO)?

4) I'm trying to stay strategic and not get emotional, but it's tough when you feel like you're being disrespected.

Any advice or shared experiences would be incredibly helpful. Thanks!

Comments (14)

Someone1234 · 1d ago
1) You've already been fired. This is just checking the [legal] boxes. You likely got fired due to no personal fault, and rather mismanagement on their part (e.g. over-hiring, flip-flopping projects, etc.).

2) Start working on your next steps after hours. Feeling like this is a temp situation will help.

3) 100% yes, they're trying to pressure you into leaving. Try to get the best terms you can.

4) Doesn't sound very "strategic" to over-stay somewhere that you call "day-to-day emotional drain of working with a manager who you feel is actively trying to undermine you." You should work on your exit.

You're talking about strategy, but realistically what do you imagine is the fairy-tail ending of this one? You get to drag it out painfully for both sides? Best case scenario you get to find a workplace that makes you happy, and let them continue their dysfunctional hell until they burn through all their runway without any actual product to show.

brettgriffin · 21h ago
I agree with this post. I think you've already been terminated, and I don't think it was your fault.

I would stress #3: If you cannot financially afford to just tender your resignation and move on, take the high road and handle this as amicably as you can. Make a concerted effort to show progress in the PIP, discuss your progress in your 1 on 1s, and be as polite as you can. It sucks, it's tempting to lash out, but it is not worth it.

But immediately begin running a process to find a new position, hopefully with more skilled and competent people.

ra0x3 · 1d ago
Excellent, professional, and very valuable response :)
tlb · 1d ago
There are lots of reasons why people don't fit at a company, and only some of them are the employee's fault. But whose fault it is doesn't really matter. If you aren't happy and aren't appreciated, you should be out interviewing for better jobs. Somewhere there's a position where you'll be both happy and appreciated.
jorisboris · 1d ago
When my manager wanted to put me on a pip, an experienced HR friend recommended me to speak to an employment lawyer asap. They would help for a relatively small fee, and a percentage if they win. In many countries PIPs are subjective, and courts nudge to protecting employees. A lawyer can help you prepare to document and catch errors. It doesn't solve your problems but at least you have the chance to get a premium for your frustration.

This was not in the Netherlands, so things might be different, but probably similar to a certain extent.

Doxin · 8h ago
Protip: getting legal insurance for employment shenanigans is like $30 a month in the Netherlands. If you need it once in your life it'll have paid for itself.
firefax · 1d ago
I had a similar thing recently.

The problem is there's not much they can do until you're terminated, and after termination you need to wait six months to a year while a regualatory body investigates until you get your "letter to sue", and even then the $ you get will probably not be enough to retire on.

In the meantime, you'll have an employment gap and an employer who plays fast and loose with the law, so they might be willing to do other things like shit talk you during reference checks.

Even if they did something egregious like fire you for a protected reason despite ample evidence it's very hard to do anything about it if they're adamant they don't want to make a reasonable settlement offer.

muzani · 1d ago
Not all PIPs are firings. But combined with the contract amendment (which sounds illegal) and the disrespect, especially being excluded from the launch channel, it sounds like it is. Harassing people to quit is also illegal in many places.

I would say lawyer up. They're treading near illegal grounds here and the lawyer should give you advice on what you evidence you need. And they'd likely help you stay strategic.

toast0 · 1d ago
If you're on an employment based visa and in a country where you're unfamiliar with labor law, I think you need to consult with an attorney who has experience with both of these specialized areas in the country you're in. If your company has provided an immigration attorney for you already, they shouldn't be the one you use to pursue employment claims.
skylurk · 1d ago
Get a good lawyer. If there is a settlement, the lawyer can be paid out of the settlement, at no cost to you.

If possible, tailor the terms of the settlement to your situation. For example, I suspect an extended garden leave will be more interesting to you than a (heavily taxed) golden handshake.

At least you're in a country that got rid of Labour Day because labour won (lol)

mindcrash · 1d ago
If the company has put you on a PIP or something similar, is located in the Netherlands, and it looks like they want you gone you're definitely out.

Trust me on that.

Been there, done that. Several times. Luckily I don't have to go through that kind of crap any longer.

brudgers · 1d ago
Ok, it sucks. Your options are to leave or wait it out. Either way, the pressure does not seem blatently irrational.

a big step down from my US salary. The main reason for the move was to get a visa and work in Europe

If that’s common knowledge in the team, it is probably is not particularly good for morale. If you tell people you are slumming out of self interest, it is unlikely to win friends, but will influence them.

The part that feels off is that the "messy" code they're pointing to is a direct result of the constant pivots and the "move fast" culture we've all been working in.

That’s a reason, not an excuse. Being senior means there are no excuses.

My manager's own PRs have introduced critical bugs that I've had to stay late to fix.

So what? Everyone makes errors. This smells like an issue with your boss.

Any advice

The question suggests cultural fit issues. Or are you the kind of person the team wants to work with. Good luck.

akomtu · 1d ago
It looks like the company is dying and wants to cut expenses. Your manager is trying to find something on you to push you out, and to make you doubt yourself so you'd jump ship, because that's what he's been told to do. Even if you manage to drag this out and stay, you will simply see how the ship sinks.
sergiotapia · 1d ago
Never heard of, or personally experienced, a PIP that didn't end with a job change. Plan accordingly dude