This is the money shot : "Companies like CoreCivic and GEO Group receive government funding based on the number of people they detain, which is why they lobby for stricter immigration policies. It’s a lucrative business: CoreCivic made over $560m from Ice contracts in a single year. In 2024, GEO Group made more than $763m from Ice contracts.
The more detainees, the more money they make. It stands to reason that these companies have no incentive to release people quickly. What I had experienced was finally starting to make sense."
wraaath · 81d ago
GEO Group also operates similar facilities in Australia, and is publicly traded in the US stock market under the symbol GEO. For the quarter ending 12/31/2024, they had top line revenue of 608M, but pre-tax income came in at 24M, and carrying debt of 2.3B. Somehow with such thin profit margins, their stock is trading at a 4B market capitalization and carrying a 128 P/E (by comparison, Google carries a 20 P/E, Meta 24), i.e. "richly overvalued". It would be a damned shame if Australia started re-evaluating those contracts.
Oh - and some of the risk factors that GEO notes in their last 10-K annual filing:
Efforts to reduce the U.S. federal deficit could adversely affect our liquidity, results of operations and financial condition.
We partner with a limited number of governmental customers who account for a significant portion of our revenues. The loss of, or a significant decrease in revenues from, these customers could seriously harm our financial condition and results of operations.
We are subject to the loss of our facility management contracts, due to terminations, non-renewals or competitive re-bids, which could adversely affect our results of operations and liquidity, including our ability to secure new facility management contracts from other government customers.
and also - this amazing level of self-awareness:
Adverse publicity may negatively impact our ability to retain existing contracts and obtain new contracts.
TheNewsIsHere · 77d ago
10-Ks are one of the last places to find actual honesty in business. We partially have SOX to thank for that.
wraaath · 77d ago
You still do see plenty of trash in the 10-K's with all of the massaged messaging, but yeah.
tim333 · 81d ago
I don't get the " tiny, freezing cement cell with bright fluorescent lights" and a foil blanket thing though. Why be so nasty? If you are making a business improperly detaining people it would only be likely to cause outrage and get it shut down?
I'm curious as a non American why no one stops this. I mean presumably both political parties have not bothered. Do people in the US think it's ok? I think if that stuff happened in the UK there would be a lot of protests.
casenmgreen · 81d ago
> I don't get the " tiny, freezing cement cell with bright fluorescent lights" and a foil blanket thing though.
It's cheaper, would be my guess.
These conditions though, it reads like the Standford experiment.
This is properly tantamount to prisoner abuse.
johnnyanmac · 81d ago
A lot of America (even parts of the left) still fall for the "hard on crime" narrative. They assume the sentences are just, and thus bad people deserve the worst. Even if our constitution has a clause agaisnt "cruel and unusual punishment".
never-mind that we've had decades of initiatives using such prisons as a form of soft racism, something so longstanding that is publicly declassified information. And people still don't care.
intended · 81d ago
They would go further, and argue that it’s the people who argue against this narrative, are supporters of criminals.
I.e. - It’s gone from “you are too soft on crime”, to “you are supporting criminals.”
closewith · 79d ago
> I think if that stuff happened in the UK there would be a lot of protests.
A lot worse happened in UK prisons in Northern Ireland and people in Great Britain widely cheered it on. Target the right minorities and there'd be no shortage of supporters in Westminster.
bigfatkitten · 79d ago
> If you are making a business improperly detaining people it would only be likely to cause outrage and get it shut down?
On the contrary. In the US in particular, there is a large and outspoken segment of the voting base that love to see this sort of thing.
femiagbabiaka · 81d ago
Simple. It doesn't cause (genuine) outrage and it doesn't get them shut down. AOC for example, protested these private prisons during Trump's first term and went silent on them when Biden didn't close them.
runarberg · 81d ago
Here is a tweet from soon after Biden took office in January 2021:
> People must understand the depth of what’s happening here: the President of the United States has ordered a halt to deportations. ICE, a federal agency, is refusing to comply.
> There’s no reforming this rogue dept. It’s time for a new, just vision.
> A lot of people who are just now suddenly horrified at the dehumanizing conditions at our border are the same folks who dehumanize immigrants + helped build these cages in the 1st place.
> When we tried to stop this infrastructure over a year ago,we were overruled by BOTH parties.
> Fact is a lot of the politicians crying right now don’t work to solve either.
> They vote to grow ICE + CBP cages and they do everything to avoid addressing the root: US foreign policy and interventionism that destabilizes regions, the climate crisis, and unjust economic policy.
Your statement that Alexandria Ocasia-Cortez stopped protesting these private prisons while Biden was in office is simply factually wrong. And it was not hard to check it.
freen · 78d ago
[flagged]
femiagbabiaka · 76d ago
1) Tweets are not substantive action. I was actually involved in abolish ICE actions in real life and watched it die.
2) Tweets are even less meaningful when in real life she supported at every step the people who were actively propping up ICE. Including Bernie, who just recently said Biden could have done more on illegal immigration. (Biden deported more people than Trump 1).
AOC actually has a long track record of saying one thing and doing another, like the controversy over her “present” vote on weapons to Israel. This is the major reason why the Squad broke up. The most charitable interpretation of it is that she wants to gain cache within her party. But she doesn’t realize her party hates her.
If you want to continue to champion someone like that, I have no problem with it, at the least she’s effective at bringing people to the left after they are inevitably disillusioned by something her or Bernie does.
dfox · 81d ago
Cost optimization.
qwertox · 81d ago
CoreCivic & Co. then sounds like a good target for a DOGE analysis.
johnnyanmac · 81d ago
follow the money as always. Same reason why US has the highest incarceration date. Incentivize people to be put in cells, and they'll optimize for it.
Hence why I'd rather revamp the incentives towards punishing recidivism and completely nailing petty imprisonments.
bojangleslover · 82d ago
Makes complete sense to me. That's how every other business works. Number of detainees is a mostly linear input (aside from the real estate) to opex.
snapcaster · 82d ago
This is horrible and scary, why border guards are even giving the authority to revoke visas is beyond me. When people think about giving cops/guards authority like this they need to be picturing the dumbest bully from their grade school. That's who is going to be using the power
pjc50 · 82d ago
It's Team Grade School Bullies all the way up, from the voters to the representatives. Plus decades of pro-cop propaganda, especially against following the rules.
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throwawaymaths · 82d ago
I'm about to travel to canada on work and as i understand it the last step in the visa is an interview at the port of entry where the border guard can decide if I get to stay or not.
poulsbohemian · 82d ago
When I went through it years ago, it was mostly about making sure you had all your paperwork in order - had the company sponsoring you provided the relevant information regarding the role and why you were needed, did your resume and experience match at all with the work being performed, etc. Basically I showed up with a list of documents and a very nice border guard looked it over and said welcome to Canada. Each time I traveled up there for work, the border guards were polite and professional. Each time I traveled home, I got pulled aside for advanced screening like I was a drug mule. Just loved all the America trivia questions and deep dives into the history of where I live, just so they could feel good about their jobs.
aendruk · 82d ago
> Each time I traveled up there for work, the border guards were polite and professional. Each time I traveled home, I got pulled aside […]
Interesting, it was the opposite for me, US citizen with CA work permit circa 2016. CBP seemed to not care while CBSA was often irrationally aggressive and suspicious. The closest thing I got to an explanation once after being freed was “We just like you” with a grin.
ethbr1 · 82d ago
My experiences with CBSA were pretty bad too.
I was grilled in Vancouver about whether the purpose of my visit was work or pleasure, after I helpfully told the officer that my dad was attending a work conference and I was traveling with him but sightseeing.
"Well which one is it, work or pleasure?!"
I don't know, dude. I just explained the situation: you're supposed to be the expert!
manwe150 · 82d ago
What confuses me even more about that situation is that Canada seems to distinguish between business travel and work travel instead, where those two options seem to be mutually exclusive to each other (199b), and neither is for pleasure
I believe making you flustered is a deliberate part of the procedure. If you don't act 'normal flustered' or panic, it is a signal for more advanced screening.
j_timberlake · 82d ago
Imagine taking a >$500 flight to Japan or South Korea only to be told by the border guard there that you can't enter, even when no rules were broken. And then the flight home is even more expensive. It happens sometimes.
wahnfrieden · 82d ago
canada just revised the rules to allow border agents to revoke your visa / work permit, fyi. so look out. it might be better to go during "normal" hours and at major ports of entry to try to get a more senior officer.
blindriver · 82d ago
Every country is like this. Israel is the scariest but I remember decades ago crossing into Switzerland by train and in the middle of the night being woken up by border guards with barking German shepherds asking for my passport. I have so many stories it’s funny. On top of the other stories I’ve already posted, my friend who is Canadian drove into Buffalo for dinner and on his way back, they asked him where are you going. He answered “Canada” and they detained him and pulled apart his car looking for drugs. He was detained for hours until they let him go.
nsavage · 82d ago
As a Canadian living near the border (as many Canadians are!), I would often drive into the US for shopping. There are a number of towns that seem dedicated to serving Canadians, like Watertown, NY. I've found that often the US border guards would be much nicer than the Canadian border guards, probably because the Canadians are the ones that need to deal with the customs rules (Canadians aren't trying to smuggle their new purchases back to the US without paying tax!).
I haven't been on a shopping trip like that in a while though, and I find it hard to believe I'll ever do it again now. I feel bad for Watertown, but with the tariffs and the risk of detention, its not worth it.
thelittlenag · 82d ago
That's an interesting anecdote. I grew up on a border town, but as a US Citizen often going up into Cananda. Without fail it was always the US border guards who were the jerks (I went to school with their kids!) and the Canadian guards who were gracious and courteous.
Given that I've NEVER had what I would call a great interaction with a US border guard, it warms my heart to hear that at least they could be kind to some one ;-)
freedomben · 82d ago
This has been my experience as well (as a US citizen). I've crossed the US/Canadian border many times and the US guards are usually the jerks. I always dread re-entry into the US because of that.
ilamont · 82d ago
The Walmarts and gas stations near the Northern NY border used to have a lot of Ontario and Quebec plates. I've seen reports that February traffic across the bridges was down ~15% in February YoY.
dowager_dan99 · 82d ago
don't forget a sub-70 cent dollar. Pretty rough to pay that sort of premium and THEN maybe GST and duty on your purchases. It's not the same as a generation ago when you had to go to the US to get their chocolate bars...
pjc50 · 82d ago
There's a wide spectrum between being aggressive about asking for your passport and detention for weeks. While it's a slippery slope the extent to which it happens, and the extent to which prejudice is involved, varies a lot.
blindriver · 82d ago
Are you suggesting that Swiss border patrol would have been more forgiving if I were illegally entering their country?
poulsbohemian · 82d ago
I have the best story on this - they didn't believe I wasn't Swiss, because my name is clearly Swiss and I was speaking German. My (American) passport had been amended so it took an hour and them making some calls before they were convinced I wasn't some kind of spy. Love the idea of my ancestral home not believing I wasn't one of them, even if they were quite rude about it.
wk_end · 82d ago
Well, she wasn't illegally entering the United States, so that's sort of moot.
blindriver · 82d ago
She was. You didn't even do a modicum of research. She co-founded a hemp drink company in California and then self-assigned her own TN visa through the company she founded, which isn't allowed. Her visa was actually illegal and then she was found upon subsequent crossing. She tried to reapply and this time she was detained.
wk_end · 82d ago
Sorry, I’m commenting on an article and don’t feel as though I should need more research than what’s written in it. Based on her account, that’s not really accurate, and I do actually trust her (and Guardian fact-checkers) more than your anonymous claims. Feel free to give sources.
Anyway: it’s still moot. What she did, even based on your account, is not illegal.
It’s not illegal to apply for TN, period. If the application is rejected, that doesn’t make the application retroactively illegal.
It’s not even illegal for a Canadian to apply for a TN at the border crossing, have their application rejected, and keep driving right into the US. I know this because it happened to me. As Canadians don’t need work permits to enter the US, entering the country wasn’t the question - only working in it.
Unless she’d previously been given paperwork that had banned her from entry to the US - and she hadn’t been - there was nothing illegal with reapplying. She was told to reapply.
Whether she did anything “wrong” is debatable, but whether she did anything illegal isn’t.
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dowager_dan99 · 82d ago
I need to determine if this is true. I had not heard of it before, and the idea she would qualify for a TN visa seemed a little thin, but the rules are so arbitrary and uneven (especially these days) who knows. Regardless this sounds like a nightmare, and to top it off is neither "DOGE-efficient" or increases US security. It's a least 4-combinations of lose-lose.
Hmm, I'm not an American so this is all new and pretty interesting. If you wholly or partly own a company and the company sponsors your TN, would that be OK? Or is that still 'self-sponsorship' under the regulations?
ikerrin1 · 81d ago
Canadian here. I recall in 1991 being woken by Swiss border guards in a train carriage full of Germans and Italians. After inspecting their passports they shined the light in my face. They saw my maple leaf on my bag and asked “Est-tu Canadian” bleary eyed I replied “oui” and they said,”it’s fine, we don’t need to see your passport”. Of course 9 years later I was thrown off a train to Czechoslovakia” because they changed the visa requirements at the last minute and my “Let’s Go” guidebook was out of date.
Oh being young, stupid and crossing boarders without a clue.
ssijak · 82d ago
"Switzerland by train and in the middle of the night being woken up by border guards with barking German shepherds asking for my passport"
What is exactly wrong here? They checked your passport and went on their way, that is how it works.
ethbr1 · 82d ago
It was hilarious seeing the difference between the French and Swiss border guards on train rides.
French: laughing and talking, checking everyone's passports
Swiss: eyes scanning the car, papers please
dowager_dan99 · 82d ago
Why do you need guard dogs to check a passport? Is it the most effective system to do sweep-checks in the middle of the night? Why not check as you're boarding or de-training? What happens if something is wrong or not aligned? Is a stressful situation the best way to conduct routine processes for anybody?
HOW shit goes down is really important. When systems reduce people to cogs in a machine they lose empathy and personal responsibility. This is why we end up with guards who know nothing, treat people like cattle, and are "just doing their job". It does not lead to good results.
cutemonster · 82d ago
Drug drogs I suspect.
blindriver · 82d ago
Nothing wrong. The previous poster claimed that the US Border patrol was excessively scary but my point is this happens everywhere around the world.
freehorse · 82d ago
The part OP is scared of and points to is some border guard revoking your visa, which probably implies you losing your job and having to leave the country you live in. This is scary because it is a very big, bad outcome to be totally in the authority of a random border guard to decide. Waking out by guards and dogs barking on a train is scary in its own right the moment it happens, but we are talking about totally different things whose only intersection is "border guards" and the emotional category of "scared".
No comments yet
Mashimo · 82d ago
They detained her for 2 weeks, while the lights where always on. I think that is a bit more then aggressively asking for papers.
wezdog1 · 81d ago
Even if that were true it doesn't justify it.
yerushalayim · 78d ago
Scary can be an effective deterrent against unsavory adversaries.
seec · 77d ago
Of course, it's kind of the point of having borders and control, if they let anyone in without verifying, it's not even worth having a border.
Going from France to UK is like that, and before Shenzen, it was like that from EU country to EU country. When I was young, we had to wait for 2 hours with my parents while they checked everything was in order for a Spain border crossing (we were in a big RV so it makes sense).
People on HN have very soft views of the world, being too idealistic libertarian or some sort of socialist derived ideology.
Most people may not be criminal but you have to process everyone crossing the border as if because otherwise it's pointless and you will never catch the criminals...
bergie · 81d ago
The only border experience I've ever had that was worse than US was Canada. And I've traveled quite extensively.
BizarreByte · 82d ago
The specifics of this case are largely irrelevant to me, the fact is I am scared to cross the border into the US at this point.
For the foreseeable future I will not be travelling to the US for any reason. Canada is safe and there is nothing in the US worth risking my freedom for. I will remain here and I will continue to avoid travel to America as well as spending money on American goods/services.
transcriptase · 82d ago
The specifics are seemingly irrelevant to everyone. She had her work visa revoked at the Canadian border because her company in California was allegedly making THC beverages in violation of federal law. She was told to visit a consulate to straighten it out.
Instead she flew to Mexico and tried to enter there with new and obviously fake job offer. She was treated like anyone else would, but it’s international news because she’s a pretty white woman.
BizarreByte · 82d ago
Again I do not care. The US has done more than enough to instill fear in Canadians like me.
Would you travel to a country where its leader is constantly making threats against your country, some as serious as repeatedly calling for your annexation? The current US administration has made it very clear how it feels about me and my countrymen.
I don't consider the US safe and I do not need someone to americansplain to me. You aren't exceptional, you're a threat.
transcriptase · 82d ago
I am Canadian. I’ve been to the U.S. a hundred times and nothing has really changed to make me blink at continuing to go. I have friends and family who work and vacation there, and it’s the same for them as it’s always been.
The Canadian media and Canadian businesses have been drumming up fear and patriotic rhetoric to drive domestic industries. That’s great - the last 10 years of “Canada is a post-national state with no culture or identity” narrative that Trudeau championed wasn’t doing us any favours anyway.
Trump may be a buffoon and what he’s doing is clearly not acceptable with respect to Canada, but to fear visiting or considering the U.S. unsafe when it’s objectively far safer than visiting any all-inclusive hotspot in the Caribbean that Canadians are still flocking to like they do every winter is, well, removed from reality.
jszymborski · 81d ago
> nothing has really changed to make me blink
Then you perhaps aren't looking closely. The US is undergoing one of the fastest democratic backslides (democratic sinkhole?) the world has yet to see [0], deportations and detentions are happening with zero regard to the rule of law [1], and our _sovereignty_ is under attack daily.
If that doesn't make you blink, like most Canadians have [2], then perhaps nothing would.
You might want to try getting out of your doom news bubble.
BizarreByte · 82d ago
> I’ve been to the U.S. a hundred times and nothing has really changed to make me blink at continuing to go.
Let's hope you never get unlucky, it only takes one border agent having a bad day after all. I've been to the US many, many times and as I said I no longer consider it safe, but we all have different risk tolerance levels.
> when it’s objectively far safer than visiting any all-inclusive hotspot in the Caribbean
I don't visit those places either.
Cry to someone else about how it's all media based fear while ignoring the very real changes in attitudes, policy, and atmosphere, but I personally see no reason to take the risk when I could...just stay in Canada and be safe.
metabagel · 82d ago
Dude, if you have a tattoo that looks questionable, you literally could be deported to a concentration camp in El Salvador. Granted, maybe you are white, and that might be the one thing which saves you.
wahnfrieden · 82d ago
Reportedly even having an LGBT tattoo was sufficient to be marked as criminal and sent to the El Salvador concentration camp
somedude895 · 82d ago
You're saying that you're not actually interested in discussing the post you're commenting on, you just want to use the comment section to rant. Got it.
jszymborski · 81d ago
No, they are saying that the minutiae doesn't impact their desire to not visit, as simply the threat of arbitrary incarceration is sufficient. It's in fact a sentiment shared by most Canadians if the sharp decrease of Canadian visits to the US approaching pandemic levels is anything to go by.
apwell23 · 81d ago
its not up to you to decide what rules are "minutiae".
Thats the attitude of drivers towards laws on streets of bangalore.
SpicyLemonZest · 82d ago
It's international news because she was detained for 2 weeks with no explanation. If they had simply booted her back across the border - which I thought was the default in cases like this, where someone's applying in an orderly manner at a port of entry - few people would have cared.
hattmall · 82d ago
>If they had simply booted her back across the border
They can't. And this is entirely her fault for trying to enter through Mexico. Telling them she will return to Canada isn't helpful because what are they supposed to do? Tell her ok, go get an Uber to the Airport and just let her go? Mexico would not issue her a VISA either so her only option is US or Mexican Detention. When the agent said "You aren't a criminal" is when she saw that Mexico had denied her re-entry and she was flagged for detention.
Now, I mean, personally I think it would be fine to just let her go because who really cares, but the point of rules/laws/procedures is for them to be followed.
Why did she go to Mexico first? Because she was denied entry in Canada and thought there would be less scrutiny at the Southern Border for Canadians. She was correct, because it worked the first time when she would have likely been denied at the Canadian border for her second crossing, but her initial denial flagged her.
I feel for her, and the situation sucks, but she 100% knows she's trying to game the system, and that's not even bringing up the issues of her self-sponsored TN visa which is dubious.
SpicyLemonZest · 82d ago
Is it true that Mexico denied her re-entry? The source article doesn't say anything about that, and I'm not sure why it would happen - Canadian nationals generally have visa-free entry for short trips to Mexico.
hattmall · 81d ago
Yes, the agent saying "We have to send you back to Canada" is because she wasn't allowed in Mexico. By default her tourist card would have only covered entry from from Canada. The first CBP agent almost certainly attempted to get her back into Mexico which is why it took "hours." If she already had a valid VISA for Mexico then the default would be to return her. The article doesn't even really make it clear that she flew to Mexico first and then tried to enter the US. To the uninformed it would seem she may have flown into San Diego or something. She wouldn't be able to return to Mexico on an asylum claim either of course.
footy · 81d ago
Canadians don't need a visa to travel to Mexico though [1], assuming they won't be doing any work or studying. Going to the airport to go back to Canada is not work.
Yes, but if she HAD a VISA she would have been allowed to return to Mexico. She entered Mexico with a Temporary Tourist Card for entry from Canada to exit through the US with specified dates or less than 72 hours. That card became invalid when she left Mexico. The border agents most certainly tried to get her back into Mexico, but "denied entry into the US" is going to cause a manual administrative review in Mexico and that appears to have been denied. The only thing different under Biden / Obama would have been that she may have been processed faster because their was less backlog.
She gambled on trying to to game the immigration system and lost. It sucks but 12 days in custody isn't world ending. The most amazing part to me is people with no experience with "the system" find themselves incarcerated and think not eating sounds like a good idea.
apwell23 · 81d ago
Yep this person clearly tried to manipulate the system and had the gall to admit that in public because she knew some many ppl wouldn't care and would support her regardless. this comment thread is proof of that.
causal · 82d ago
Disingenuous take, did you even read the article?
1) She was not detained in connection with any crime whatsoever. At no point was her company's use of THC stated as a reason for detainment.
2) You have invented the idea that her second job was fake. If it were, then fraud could have been a crime and reason for detainment- but again, the article makes it clear no crime was charged or cited.
3) You are right that plenty of non-white people are also going through this. I wish that was also enough to motivate people to care.
The point is that removing due process for anyone is a threat to everyone. It could be you next. You might think, "Not if I'm a citizen and not a criminal" - but the whole point of due process is getting the opportunity to prove that you are in fact a citizen and not a criminal. That right is eroding.
apwell23 · 82d ago
After a long interrogation, the officer told me it seemed “shady” and that my visa hadn’t been properly processed. He claimed I also couldn’t work for a company in the US that made use of hemp – one of the beverage ingredients.
i don't know what hemp is or how is related to THC.
projectazorian · 82d ago
Hemp is a lower THC variant of cannabis that has a variety of non-psychoactive uses. It was legalized in the US in 2018.
beart · 82d ago
Hemp is a type of cannabis. Historically in the US, it contained extremely small amounts of THC. With the legalization/decriminalization of THC across many states, I don't know if that's still true.
zabzonk · 82d ago
Hemp and cannabis are both varieties of the plant Cannabis sativa. Hemp contains less THC, and is used for things like making rope.
What about the new job offer makes you think it is fake?
transcriptase · 82d ago
You run a company in LA.
Your visa is revoked.
You show up at a different border shortly after with a novel job offer.
Is it a genuine job offer or are you going back to run your company?
jmb99 · 82d ago
If that is all the evidence presented, then under the wild new concept of “innocent until proven guilty,” yes it is.
troad · 81d ago
That's never been the standard at the border.
The starting assumption when crossing any[0] international border is that you don't have a right to enter the country, until you prove otherwise.
People from wealthy Western countries are generally used to just waving their passports and passing through, but that is not nor has it ever been some kind of automatic right. People are questioned and denied entry all the time, should they fail to satisfy the border official of their eligibility for entry under the exact terms of their visa (or the relevant visa waiver program).
I'm very sympathetic to the idea that border officials should have less discretion to deny people entry without very solid reasons, but if you start talking about 'innocent until proven guilty' at a border today, you're not going to have a good time.
[0] International agreements can of course modify this default assumption, e.g. Schengen.
apwell23 · 81d ago
ppl here are so freaking annoying and ignorant about how immigration works in any country.
you are right, for immigration its your responsibility to prove that you are not coming in to violate terms of entry. Onus is not them to prove that you are coming to work on tourist visa.
yencabulator · 80d ago
She expected to buy a return flight back to Canada, but was instead imprisoned.
slekker · 82d ago
Can you share the part of the article where this is mentioned or a source?
apwell23 · 81d ago
"stayed in Canada for the next few months, and was eventually offered a similar position with a different health and wellness brand."
When i google "holy water" first few links for me are some sort of THC infused liquid. But i think this person was working for one without thc?
foogazi · 79d ago
> She was treated like anyone else would
How is it OK to treat everyone like that ?
seec · 77d ago
Exactly. From her own story you can also infer that pretty much everyone who was detained with her was in fact illegal.
Nobody cares about them because they don't have the reach of this white woman; not that anyone would care, because they can't make up a bullshit story to pretend that they got unfairly detained.
It may not seem right, but enforcing laws is kind of the point of having borders and cops and things like that. I'm amazed how many people are complaining.
This woman is clearly shady and got what she deserved and that's that.
diebeforei485 · 81d ago
Hemp is not THC. And hemp was legalized in 2019 federally.
apwell23 · 81d ago
only if thc content is below a certain %
jmpz · 82d ago
Source?
HideousKojima · 82d ago
>The specifics of this case are largely irrelevant to me, the fact is I am scared to cross the border into the US at this point.
"I don't know Homer Simpson. I never met Homer Simpson or had any contact with him, but--
I'm sorry. I-- I can't go on."
"That's okay. Your tears say more than real evidence ever could."
BrandoElFollito · 82d ago
I traveled to the US (from my country -France- and many others) for 12 years. About a trip every month. The last time was 10 years ago.
I never had any problems (outside the horrible behaviour of border officers who show you that you are not welcome). I was stopped once by a policeman when I did an illegal car maneuver (which is tolerated in France), and when he realized I was a tourist with family, he just said, "Be careful, have a nice trip."
Today I am seriously considering never going to the US anymore because it looks like it is not a good destination anymore. I may be wrong though, I hope.
gs17 · 82d ago
> outside the horrible behaviour of border officers who show you that you are not welcome
They've always (in my life, which is largely post 9/11) done that to US citizens too. Going into Canada it was "where are you going to? the beach, eh? have a nice day!", coming back seemed to be performed under the suspicion that our passports were fake and our car was made out of drugs. Despite doing nothing wrong, we were always afraid of getting in trouble because a border agent felt like it.
dowager_dan99 · 82d ago
As a Canadian travelling throughout much of the world, border controls aside from the US always seem much more concerned with imported goods (tax collection and protecting agriculture, etc) than imported people.
rsanek · 82d ago
never experienced this as a us citizen and I travel often. usually it is a polite "welcome home", otherwise it's a bored "ok you're good"
riizade · 82d ago
I got a light interrogation as a US citizen. For the record, I have Global Entry, NEXUS, and TSA Pre-Check.
I handed the border agent my US passport and the conversation went like this
"why are you entering the country?"
"I live here"
"do you have legal status in the US?"
"I'm a citizen, you're holding my passport"
"have you ever overstayed a visa in the US in the past?"
"I was born here, so no"
"do you intend to do any work while you're in the US?"
"yes, I'm a US citizen and I have a job"
I didn't get pulled off to the side or anything, it was just standard questioning at entry processing when flying in, but it was just bizarre
the border agent kept looking me up and down suspiciously like I was hiding something, but he had my passport the whole time
even when I got questioned on my way to Canada (I would've stopped me too), they were much nicer about the whole process, it's an air of "we're just double checking cuz making a mistake here would be real bad, but as long as everything's legit, no worries, I hope you have a nice stay in Canada"
entering the US the vibe is "you're a violent criminal and it's my job to ask you questions until you slip up and admit that fact, the US is magnanimous for allowing you to touch our great country's land with your disgusting feet, and you should remember that every day you're here or we'll detain you so you won't forget again"
I'm a little surprised you've only had positive experiences.
The more detainees, the more money they make. It stands to reason that these companies have no incentive to release people quickly. What I had experienced was finally starting to make sense."
Efforts to reduce the U.S. federal deficit could adversely affect our liquidity, results of operations and financial condition.
We partner with a limited number of governmental customers who account for a significant portion of our revenues. The loss of, or a significant decrease in revenues from, these customers could seriously harm our financial condition and results of operations.
We are subject to the loss of our facility management contracts, due to terminations, non-renewals or competitive re-bids, which could adversely affect our results of operations and liquidity, including our ability to secure new facility management contracts from other government customers.
and also - this amazing level of self-awareness:
Adverse publicity may negatively impact our ability to retain existing contracts and obtain new contracts.
I'm curious as a non American why no one stops this. I mean presumably both political parties have not bothered. Do people in the US think it's ok? I think if that stuff happened in the UK there would be a lot of protests.
It's cheaper, would be my guess.
These conditions though, it reads like the Standford experiment.
This is properly tantamount to prisoner abuse.
never-mind that we've had decades of initiatives using such prisons as a form of soft racism, something so longstanding that is publicly declassified information. And people still don't care.
I.e. - It’s gone from “you are too soft on crime”, to “you are supporting criminals.”
A lot worse happened in UK prisons in Northern Ireland and people in Great Britain widely cheered it on. Target the right minorities and there'd be no shortage of supporters in Westminster.
On the contrary. In the US in particular, there is a large and outspoken segment of the voting base that love to see this sort of thing.
> People must understand the depth of what’s happening here: the President of the United States has ordered a halt to deportations. ICE, a federal agency, is refusing to comply.
> There’s no reforming this rogue dept. It’s time for a new, just vision.
https://x.com/AOC/status/1354211627940384768
A month later she was criticizing DHS for still having Patriot act powers, and lumped ICE with the same criticism:
> People have been writing about the deeply concerning issues with the structure of DHS for a long time.
> This is from 3 years before I was even elected.
> It’s not “fringe” to ask why FEMA & ICE are in the same Dept operation. Or question ICE’s operations
https://x.com/AOC/status/1364619004921413633
A day earlier she called for the abolition of ICE:
> It’s only 2 mos into this admin & our fraught, unjust immigration system will not transform in that time.
> That’s why bold reimagination is so impt.
> DHS shouldn’t exist, agencies should be reorganized, ICE gotta go, ban for-profit detention, create climate refugee status & more.
This one is very apt given OP.
https://x.com/AOC/status/1364349732760518657
She continued, this on is in April 2021:
> A lot of people who are just now suddenly horrified at the dehumanizing conditions at our border are the same folks who dehumanize immigrants + helped build these cages in the 1st place.
> When we tried to stop this infrastructure over a year ago,we were overruled by BOTH parties.
> Fact is a lot of the politicians crying right now don’t work to solve either.
> They vote to grow ICE + CBP cages and they do everything to avoid addressing the root: US foreign policy and interventionism that destabilizes regions, the climate crisis, and unjust economic policy.
https://x.com/AOC/status/1377652851191787532
Your statement that Alexandria Ocasia-Cortez stopped protesting these private prisons while Biden was in office is simply factually wrong. And it was not hard to check it.
2) Tweets are even less meaningful when in real life she supported at every step the people who were actively propping up ICE. Including Bernie, who just recently said Biden could have done more on illegal immigration. (Biden deported more people than Trump 1).
AOC actually has a long track record of saying one thing and doing another, like the controversy over her “present” vote on weapons to Israel. This is the major reason why the Squad broke up. The most charitable interpretation of it is that she wants to gain cache within her party. But she doesn’t realize her party hates her.
If you want to continue to champion someone like that, I have no problem with it, at the least she’s effective at bringing people to the left after they are inevitably disillusioned by something her or Bernie does.
Hence why I'd rather revamp the incentives towards punishing recidivism and completely nailing petty imprisonments.
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Interesting, it was the opposite for me, US citizen with CA work permit circa 2016. CBP seemed to not care while CBSA was often irrationally aggressive and suspicious. The closest thing I got to an explanation once after being freed was “We just like you” with a grin.
I was grilled in Vancouver about whether the purpose of my visit was work or pleasure, after I helpfully told the officer that my dad was attending a work conference and I was traveling with him but sightseeing.
"Well which one is it, work or pleasure?!"
I don't know, dude. I just explained the situation: you're supposed to be the expert!
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-2002-227...
I haven't been on a shopping trip like that in a while though, and I find it hard to believe I'll ever do it again now. I feel bad for Watertown, but with the tariffs and the risk of detention, its not worth it.
Given that I've NEVER had what I would call a great interaction with a US border guard, it warms my heart to hear that at least they could be kind to some one ;-)
Anyway: it’s still moot. What she did, even based on your account, is not illegal.
It’s not illegal to apply for TN, period. If the application is rejected, that doesn’t make the application retroactively illegal.
It’s not even illegal for a Canadian to apply for a TN at the border crossing, have their application rejected, and keep driving right into the US. I know this because it happened to me. As Canadians don’t need work permits to enter the US, entering the country wasn’t the question - only working in it.
Unless she’d previously been given paperwork that had banned her from entry to the US - and she hadn’t been - there was nothing illegal with reapplying. She was told to reapply.
Whether she did anything “wrong” is debatable, but whether she did anything illegal isn’t.
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https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43413758
Oh being young, stupid and crossing boarders without a clue.
What is exactly wrong here? They checked your passport and went on their way, that is how it works.
French: laughing and talking, checking everyone's passports
Swiss: eyes scanning the car, papers please
HOW shit goes down is really important. When systems reduce people to cogs in a machine they lose empathy and personal responsibility. This is why we end up with guards who know nothing, treat people like cattle, and are "just doing their job". It does not lead to good results.
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Going from France to UK is like that, and before Shenzen, it was like that from EU country to EU country. When I was young, we had to wait for 2 hours with my parents while they checked everything was in order for a Spain border crossing (we were in a big RV so it makes sense).
People on HN have very soft views of the world, being too idealistic libertarian or some sort of socialist derived ideology. Most people may not be criminal but you have to process everyone crossing the border as if because otherwise it's pointless and you will never catch the criminals...
For the foreseeable future I will not be travelling to the US for any reason. Canada is safe and there is nothing in the US worth risking my freedom for. I will remain here and I will continue to avoid travel to America as well as spending money on American goods/services.
Instead she flew to Mexico and tried to enter there with new and obviously fake job offer. She was treated like anyone else would, but it’s international news because she’s a pretty white woman.
Would you travel to a country where its leader is constantly making threats against your country, some as serious as repeatedly calling for your annexation? The current US administration has made it very clear how it feels about me and my countrymen.
I don't consider the US safe and I do not need someone to americansplain to me. You aren't exceptional, you're a threat.
The Canadian media and Canadian businesses have been drumming up fear and patriotic rhetoric to drive domestic industries. That’s great - the last 10 years of “Canada is a post-national state with no culture or identity” narrative that Trudeau championed wasn’t doing us any favours anyway.
Trump may be a buffoon and what he’s doing is clearly not acceptable with respect to Canada, but to fear visiting or considering the U.S. unsafe when it’s objectively far safer than visiting any all-inclusive hotspot in the Caribbean that Canadians are still flocking to like they do every winter is, well, removed from reality.
Then you perhaps aren't looking closely. The US is undergoing one of the fastest democratic backslides (democratic sinkhole?) the world has yet to see [0], deportations and detentions are happening with zero regard to the rule of law [1], and our _sovereignty_ is under attack daily.
If that doesn't make you blink, like most Canadians have [2], then perhaps nothing would.
[0] https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-democracy-report-1.74863...
[1] https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-admin-ignores-judges-order-b...
[2] https://www.ctvnews.ca/video/2025/03/18/ctv-national-news-ho...
Let's hope you never get unlucky, it only takes one border agent having a bad day after all. I've been to the US many, many times and as I said I no longer consider it safe, but we all have different risk tolerance levels.
> when it’s objectively far safer than visiting any all-inclusive hotspot in the Caribbean
I don't visit those places either.
Cry to someone else about how it's all media based fear while ignoring the very real changes in attitudes, policy, and atmosphere, but I personally see no reason to take the risk when I could...just stay in Canada and be safe.
Thats the attitude of drivers towards laws on streets of bangalore.
They can't. And this is entirely her fault for trying to enter through Mexico. Telling them she will return to Canada isn't helpful because what are they supposed to do? Tell her ok, go get an Uber to the Airport and just let her go? Mexico would not issue her a VISA either so her only option is US or Mexican Detention. When the agent said "You aren't a criminal" is when she saw that Mexico had denied her re-entry and she was flagged for detention.
Now, I mean, personally I think it would be fine to just let her go because who really cares, but the point of rules/laws/procedures is for them to be followed.
Why did she go to Mexico first? Because she was denied entry in Canada and thought there would be less scrutiny at the Southern Border for Canadians. She was correct, because it worked the first time when she would have likely been denied at the Canadian border for her second crossing, but her initial denial flagged her.
I feel for her, and the situation sucks, but she 100% knows she's trying to game the system, and that's not even bringing up the issues of her self-sponsored TN visa which is dubious.
[1] https://travel.gc.ca/destinations/mexico
She gambled on trying to to game the immigration system and lost. It sucks but 12 days in custody isn't world ending. The most amazing part to me is people with no experience with "the system" find themselves incarcerated and think not eating sounds like a good idea.
1) She was not detained in connection with any crime whatsoever. At no point was her company's use of THC stated as a reason for detainment.
2) You have invented the idea that her second job was fake. If it were, then fraud could have been a crime and reason for detainment- but again, the article makes it clear no crime was charged or cited.
3) You are right that plenty of non-white people are also going through this. I wish that was also enough to motivate people to care.
The point is that removing due process for anyone is a threat to everyone. It could be you next. You might think, "Not if I'm a citizen and not a criminal" - but the whole point of due process is getting the opportunity to prove that you are in fact a citizen and not a criminal. That right is eroding.
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The starting assumption when crossing any[0] international border is that you don't have a right to enter the country, until you prove otherwise.
People from wealthy Western countries are generally used to just waving their passports and passing through, but that is not nor has it ever been some kind of automatic right. People are questioned and denied entry all the time, should they fail to satisfy the border official of their eligibility for entry under the exact terms of their visa (or the relevant visa waiver program).
I'm very sympathetic to the idea that border officials should have less discretion to deny people entry without very solid reasons, but if you start talking about 'innocent until proven guilty' at a border today, you're not going to have a good time.
[0] International agreements can of course modify this default assumption, e.g. Schengen.
you are right, for immigration its your responsibility to prove that you are not coming in to violate terms of entry. Onus is not them to prove that you are coming to work on tourist visa.
When i google "holy water" first few links for me are some sort of THC infused liquid. But i think this person was working for one without thc?
How is it OK to treat everyone like that ?
It may not seem right, but enforcing laws is kind of the point of having borders and cops and things like that. I'm amazed how many people are complaining.
This woman is clearly shady and got what she deserved and that's that.
"I don't know Homer Simpson. I never met Homer Simpson or had any contact with him, but-- I'm sorry. I-- I can't go on."
"That's okay. Your tears say more than real evidence ever could."
I never had any problems (outside the horrible behaviour of border officers who show you that you are not welcome). I was stopped once by a policeman when I did an illegal car maneuver (which is tolerated in France), and when he realized I was a tourist with family, he just said, "Be careful, have a nice trip."
Today I am seriously considering never going to the US anymore because it looks like it is not a good destination anymore. I may be wrong though, I hope.
They've always (in my life, which is largely post 9/11) done that to US citizens too. Going into Canada it was "where are you going to? the beach, eh? have a nice day!", coming back seemed to be performed under the suspicion that our passports were fake and our car was made out of drugs. Despite doing nothing wrong, we were always afraid of getting in trouble because a border agent felt like it.
I handed the border agent my US passport and the conversation went like this
"why are you entering the country?"
"I live here"
"do you have legal status in the US?"
"I'm a citizen, you're holding my passport"
"have you ever overstayed a visa in the US in the past?"
"I was born here, so no"
"do you intend to do any work while you're in the US?"
"yes, I'm a US citizen and I have a job"
I didn't get pulled off to the side or anything, it was just standard questioning at entry processing when flying in, but it was just bizarre
the border agent kept looking me up and down suspiciously like I was hiding something, but he had my passport the whole time
even when I got questioned on my way to Canada (I would've stopped me too), they were much nicer about the whole process, it's an air of "we're just double checking cuz making a mistake here would be real bad, but as long as everything's legit, no worries, I hope you have a nice stay in Canada"
entering the US the vibe is "you're a violent criminal and it's my job to ask you questions until you slip up and admit that fact, the US is magnanimous for allowing you to touch our great country's land with your disgusting feet, and you should remember that every day you're here or we'll detain you so you won't forget again"
I'm a little surprised you've only had positive experiences.