Apple Debuts iPhone 17

62 excerionsforte 165 9/9/2025, 6:13:06 PM apple.com ↗

Comments (165)

lazycouchpotato · 3m ago
256 GB base storage without a price increase is good to see.

Makes the Mac Mini look weird now with 256 GB base storage.

Pretty shameful of Google to stick to 128 GB on the Pixel 10.

dang · 2h ago
Related ongoing threads:

Compare the New iPhone Models - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45186294 - Sept 2025 (95 comments)

iPhone 17 Pro and iPhone 17 Pro Max - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45186044 - Sept 2025 (42 comments)

iPhone Air - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45186015 - Sept 2025 (431 comments)

Macha · 2h ago
I'm actually considering buying myself an iPhone for the first time. I have basically two priorities when buying an phone:

1. Freedom. I should be able to build and run apps on it without the platform holder having a barrier on it.

2. Privacy. The phone shouldn't be an object to track me for better ad sales or any other purpose.

Of course, priority 1 has until recently always led to Android while priority 2 has always led to Apple.

But with the upcoming announced changes where google is going to require registration and signing for even third party sideloaded apps, while at the same time the EU is forcing Apple to open up and allow sideloading, it seems pretty clear that in the near future both Apple and Google's policies regarding point 1 are going to converge. On a position less free than Android has hitherto been, and less free than I would like, but unfortunately they are the two options on the market.

So with priority 1 no longer a differentiating factor, it comes down to priority 2.

I've used both Android and iOS over the years, as while my personal phones have always been Android, my employer provided phones have always been iOS. I think I do prefer the Android user experience and have used enough of both that that's not just a factor of which I'm accustomed to, but it's also not the huge difference it once was for a lot of apps.

Right now I'm using a Pixel 7 Pro and I might weigh sitting it out another year, but my USB-C port is failing and I'm also watching the pixel battery issues creep up the model range to newer and newer models...

timwis · 2h ago
Well said! I share those two priorities, and am now moving in the inverse direction, but I plan to use GrapheneOS.
fsflover · 1h ago
It seems you are searching for Librem 5 (my daily driver). It runs PureOS (a Debian derivative) and turns into a desktop when connected to a screen and keyboard.
Macha · 1h ago
It doesn't run my banks' apps so it can't be more than a secondary device for playing around.
fsflover · 1h ago
Many bank apps can work with Waydroid. If your bank forces you to use the duopoly, you should switch the bank and complain to regulators.
keb_ · 2h ago
I always have a hard time swallowing the price of modern smart phones. Having something so ridiculously expensive and fragile as an everyday carry seems absurd to me. For reference, you can buy two Steam Deck LCDs for the price of one iPhone 17.
nicoburns · 2h ago
I agree. I've started thinking about phones like cars. I'd never consider buying a brand new car, and I generally wouldn't buy a brand new phone either (although they're not quite as expensive as cars). I've found that year-old models are typically around half the price of new ones.
swinglock · 2h ago
Not iPhones anyway, that's for sure. Not even used. Maybe if it's dodgy.
pzo · 2h ago
1 year old sure unlikely 50% cheap but 2 years old for sure can get for 50%. I don't see much difference between iphone 15 pro and iphone 17 pro. Honestly I'm still having iphone 13 mini and don't see much reason to upgrade but if decide to upgrade I will most likely buy 2nd hand iphone 15 pro.
tonyedgecombe · 2h ago
I’ve always bought the cheapest model in the range however I’m inclined to spend more next time because I get so much utility from it.

It will be another three or four years yet though as my SE is only three years old.

CGMthrowaway · 2h ago
The first iPhone (2007) was priced at $800 in 2025 dollars, and iPhone 17 has a heck of a lot more in it.

For a phone similar to the feature set of the original iPhone, you can get a Jelly Pro today for $100.

reply

majormajor · 2h ago
you're gonna carry those two Steam Decks in your pockets?

I think modern smart phones are pretty remarkably un-fragile compared to 20 years ago before the iPhone ($300-700 for a Symbian with a tiny plastic screens that got scratched super fast) or even 10-ish years ago with much more fragile screen glass and cases. Last phone I did major damage to was my HTC Evo in 2012.

(That Nokia N95 was in 2007 dollars, too!)

fruitworks · 2h ago
but this one can make text messages and calls using the legacy phone system, so it's a totally different product category
tra3 · 5h ago
No Mini. Not surprised. I guess I'm gonna replace the battery in my 13 mini finally.

Wonder if we'll ever see folding phones. I'm not concerned with the thickness but the overall foot print that's pocketable would be amazing.

walterbell · 2h ago
tra3 · 2h ago
That's very cool thanks for sharing!

There are some great renders in the first post in the thread, and towards the end you can see 3d printed mocks [0] of foldable devices. Very cool.

0: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/rumoured-iphone-fold-si...

JKCalhoun · 2h ago
Yeah, are they all large form-factor iPhones now?
doublepg23 · 5h ago
The iPhone Air is definitely a testing ground for folding phone technologies.
jtbayly · 4h ago
As in, it will accidentally fold in people’s pockets?
tra3 · 5h ago
How so? That would be great either way.
Tankenstein · 2h ago
Foldables need to have very thin construction as when folded, you essentially have two phones on top of each other. There's speculation online that the air was launched off the back of their internal foldable R&D.
doctoboggan · 2h ago
Presumably because a folding phone needs each half to be quite thin to still produce a reasonably normal phone thickness when folded.
GeekyBear · 4h ago
Apple shipping their in-house network silicon (5G cellular, WiFi, Bluetooth, etc) to their wider product line is certainly a long time coming.

I would assume this means Apple laptops with integrated cellular modems are on the near horizon.

dylan604 · 2h ago
I've been wondering why they haven't had this before even is using 3rd party modems. Seems like an obvious play unless they feel like that would cannibalize their tablet market??
walterbell · 48m ago
> why they haven't had this before even is using 3rd party modems

Because Qualcomm charges a percentage of sale price for use of their modem.

https://9to5mac.com/2025/02/23/gurman-apple-modems-integrati...

GeekyBear · 57m ago
It is odd that you've long been able to buy a cellular iPad but not a cellular MacBook.

Perhaps people who buy a MacBook are likely to have an iPhone in their pocket that will function as a hotspot and iPads are much more often used by people who are otherwise outside of Apple's ecosystem?

supportengineer · 2h ago
You just made my heart go pitter-patter
temp0826 · 4h ago
Sigh, the only upgrade for my 12 mini is still the 13 mini?
nabeards · 3h ago
Same here. I’m going to get a new battery soon, so that’ll give me a few more years. I’m hoping something comes along in that time that I want. Otherwise, I may just go to a Japanese eInk phone.
erikw · 5h ago
I'd be curious to understand their rationale for not making a small, reasonably priced phone like the iPhone SE used to be. I probably will be leaving the iPhone ecosystem the next time I have to buy a smartphone (even though I use a Mac, iPad, and Airpods, which all work together really well) because I'm uninterested in using a large phone.

Thinking through my own use case, I just use my phone for messaging, maps, and the occasional app, so I'm not going to need a big screen for consuming content. I also don't want to spend a lot of money on a phone, since I don't need any fancy features. So perhaps that intersection of use cases doesn't make much sense to target?

r0fl · 4h ago
Phones are used to consume content. Bigger screens make consuming content better. Therefore smaller screens do not sell well.

The sales back up my statements.

Yes I romanticize about an iPhone 17 mini pro but in the end I like being able to watch some downloaded content on a plane without having to bring an iPad from time to time and I'm not going to do that on a tiny screen.

dijit · 2h ago
I feel like the sales data would back you up, if it wasn’t for the fact that the 12 and 13 mini were larger than the iPhone 6 and 6S which for many people was too large.

It’s a bit like selling increasingly carbonated water and then selling slightly less carbonated water and pretending that it was still water that you were selling- and using the data (of nobody buying it) to tell everyone that “nobody likes the still water; so we will continue only selling carbonated and carbonated+.”

Jtsummers · 1h ago
> if it wasn’t for the fact that the 12 and 13 mini were larger than the iPhone 6 and 6S which for many people was too large.

I don't get why people make statements like this.

6: 2.64 (W) x 5.44 (H) x .27 (D)

6s: 2.64 (W) x 5.44 (H) x .28 (D)

13 mini: 2.53 (W) x 5.14 (H) x 0.30 (D)

The only dimension in which the mini was larger than the 6 or 6s was in depth, and that was just barely. It was smaller otherwise.

It did have a larger display, but it fit it into a smaller device.

----

All iPhones before the iPhone 6 were smaller than the 12 and 13 minis. The 1st gen SE was smaller. Everything from 6 on, including the 2nd and 3rd gen SEs, have been larger, though barely for the SEs. The downside to the SEs compared to the minis was that they have smaller displays than the minis.

dijit · 1h ago
I literally laid them on top of each other and the 6 was marginally larger.

Betrays the point anyway: the ideal size was the 5 and it was nowhere near that, even by your official numbers (which I would guess are excluding the rounded edges maybe? - regardless, not the point)

Jtsummers · 1h ago
> I literally laid them on top of each other and the 6 was marginally larger.

So you did that and still wrote that the minis were larger? Or you did that after I pointed out that the minis were smaller?

AstroBen · 4h ago
hear me out: a low powered, larger screened iphone!
stevenhubertron · 4h ago
When they do release small phones not enough people buy them so they don't see the cost as worth it. Simple market dynamics I assume.
trenchpilgrim · 4h ago
> I'd be curious to understand their rationale for not making a small, reasonably priced phone like the iPhone SE used to be.

People who want cheap iPhones buy older models. You get better specs buying a used or NOS premium model than a new budget model.

msk-lywenn · 4h ago
It's my thinking too but Android phones are just as big so I really don't know where to go when I won't be able to fix my iphone SE 2016... Maybe a 13 mini...
AstroBen · 4h ago
One reason might be that they have a minimum duration of software support—a low powered device might hold back future software?
pertymcpert · 4h ago
The SE didn't sell well. They want people who not only buy the phone but also buy content through the App Store and through the media services like Apple TV/music.
chucksta · 4h ago
Generally speaking there are more margins on premium goods
xenonite · 4h ago
Camera lens angles of the 17 Pro seem strange to me.

Either too wide (1x) or too narrow (4x), as seen in the live stream video, which was recorded with the iPhone 17 Pro.

I am currently on the 13 Pro, I find the 3x mode ideal for portrait photos and videos.

Is it only me with this impression? Could someone help me to jump back into Apple's reality distortion field?

Aloisius · 1h ago
The 17 Pro has a much higher resolution camera than the 13 Pro, so even if you center crop of a photo taken with the 2x optical zoom to get you what you'd see with a 3x, it will still be higher resolution than the same photo taken with the 13 Pro.

That said, I too like a 70 mm lens, but I long ago got used to just moving closer to or further away from subjects to take photos with dedicated cameras depending on what lens I had on.

trymas · 3h ago
Same. Because zooming from 1x to 3.99x is digital zoom - IMHO too much quality is lost.
mdavid626 · 4h ago
Looking at it from my 2020 iPhone SE I bought used for 120€.

Still good, still works.

drumhead · 2h ago
I've got a Pixel, this new iPhone hasnt got anything that convinces me to move to Apple. There's nothing compelling there, not technologically or aesthetically. Yes its more powerful, but what do they do with that power but play games? Until some new application emerges where that much power is needed I'll stick to the cheaper phones.
matesz · 5h ago
I’m still using iPhone 12 mini running iOS 26 beta and it’s good enough. OS is definitely not polished, some of the design choices don’t even make sense but in general I believe it’s the right direction - spatial + maxing out visual looks.

Being able to turn Liquid Glass off to sth like flat design would be nice but this probably won’t happen.

Now when it comes to the event itself, it felt so cartoonish.

mandeepj · 4h ago
I recently started studying metal, so I was watching their metal choices with a bit of curiosity.

Apple switched iPhone 17 Pro from Titanium (used in earlier versions) to aerospace-grade Aluminium for Superior Heat Dissipation.

But for the iPhone Air, they are using Titanium because it's lightweight, strong, and durable.

Aluminum is definitely a softer metal, so using aerospace-grade aluminum makes sense. So, is Titanium not a good thermal conductor? If it is not, then why is it used in the iPhone Air?

Sorry! Their choice is not clear to me. Can someone throw light on it?

ktta · 4h ago
Since iPhone Air is thinner, it needs to use titanium for the increased rigidity to avoid another iPhone 6-eqsue 'bendgate' at the risk of worse heat dissipation
runjake · 3h ago
Aluminum conducts heat about 10 times more effectively than titanium.

Phone material choices come down to which compromises you will settle for.

There are similar compromises with types of glass chosen. One type is more scratch resistance, but more prone to shatter from falls, and vice versa.

mikestew · 4h ago
Smaller frame on the Air, so titanium for additional strength and resistance to bending?
Hamuko · 4h ago
My guess would be that an aluminum iPhone Air would bend, so they were forced to make it from titanium to keep it thin.
giancarlostoro · 5h ago
I have a 12 Pro, I am definitely going to be upgrading, I've had my phone for 5 years now (since 2020) that's actually longer than I've owned any other cell phone without upgrading.

I think I could probably squeeze more life out of my phone, but the 17 has a nicer camera, me and my wife are noticing our relatives with newer iPhones have photographs that look slightly (I meant to write NOTICEABLY here) better. As we raise our first child, having a quality camera is definitely important to us.

I was really tempted by the iPhone Air, but the Pro has better camera features. I am actually really excited to see what they will do for the iPads. If they release a thin iPac Mini similar to the iPhone Air, I would immediately buy it. I am not usually a fan of thin, but something in me has always wanted a thin iPad Mini, not sure why, but I'm waiting for it still.

Great demo, the most impressive demo had to have been the Airpod Pros translation piece.

Edit: Needed to annotate that I wrote 'slightly better' but its not just slightly, we both visually noticed a different in quality.

One last note, the 12 Pro was my first iPhone ever. I was on Android since 2009, every Android I had lasted about 2 years. My last one probably would have lasted me 5 years but I was tired and wanted a change at my 2 year mark. I have not regretted my decision to date.

_aavaa_ · 2h ago
If you want another big bump in image quality I recommend you use Adobe’s Project Indigo app instead of the default camera app.

Difference is especially startling for HDR and portraits, particularly backlight ones where the stock app does some hideous segmentation-based “enhancements”.

giancarlostoro · 2h ago
Wait WHAT! Thank you so much!
zdc1 · 2h ago
Yeah. Comparing to my iPhone 14 Pro, improvements are mostly just the camera and the screen. So it's really just about what you want a newer/better camera in your pocket. I'm going to wait one more year, but I do love that we're at the stage where a phone and a laptop can go for 4-5 years without feeling less than "modern".

Just be mindful that those extra megapixels will need some extra storage.

giancarlostoro · 2h ago
Thats fair, I dont see people two generations behind benefiting from it, but for me its a bit of a bump up.
dingaling · 4h ago
> As we raise our first child, having a quality camera is definitely important to us.

A phone camera isn't really a camera, it's a digitally-airbrushed impression of reality. There just isn't enough light hitting the tiny sensor through the tiny lens.

I have 20 year old 5MP DLSR portrait photos that are still better than what a 120MP phone can produce, because it's the lens that counts.

mschaef · 3h ago
I have a couple DSLR's and a large frame compact, and I wholly get your point. The image quality on even an older DSLR is better, mainly due to the physics of the optics - there's nothing like a high quality lens dumping a bunch of light on a large sensor.

However.... it's really hard to overstate the workflow and convenience aspects of shooting with a phone. (Particularly as a parent, and even moreso when I was a new parent of a small child.) The phone has the twin benefits of 1) being present almost always and 2) being immediately able to process and transmit an image to the people you might want to see it. For the 99% case, that's far more useful than even a very significant improvement in image quality. For the 1% where it matters, I can and do either hire a professional (with better equipment than my own) or make the production of dragging out my DSLR and all that it entails. This is like so many other cases where inarguable technical excellence of a sort gives way to convenience and cost issues. IOW, "Better" is not just about Image Quality.

runjake · 3h ago
My ancient Canon Rebel camera, I think a T3i, takes stunningly detailed photos against even my iPhone 15 Pro.

But, I never have my Canon and it's too bulky to carry around everyday. I do carry my iPhone everywhere I go. And so, the capabilities of my iPhone camera are more important.

I imagine this is the same for the overwhelming majority of people.

prmoustache · 2h ago
Having said that you also have the midway option with large sensor compact cameras. A ricoh GR III/IV with an APS-C sensor is heavier than a smartphone but not overly so and more compact as it actually fit a pocket. A Canon G9X is even lighter with a 1" sensor.
mschaef · 1h ago
Some of it's size, some of it the fact that the camera is a second device, and some of it's workflow.

I tried a Sony RX100 (1" sensor) when they first came out, optimistic about the possibility of using it for 'general purpose' photography. After all, it's small enough.

The problem was, it's a second device to carry around and keep charged. Then once you capture the image, it's largely stuck on the device until you find a way to offload your images. I briefly experimented with cables that would let me do things like transfer images from the RX100 to my (Android at the time) mobile phone, for archiving and sending to family and friends. That turned the whole thing into the sort of science fair project that I didn't have time for as the parent of a very young child. (Although in fairness, I can't think of a single time in my life when I'd have had the patience, kids or not.)

This is why, for all the arguments you can make against them as cameras, I've come to be very thankful for the amount of effort that Apple and others have made to get appealing images out of devices I always carry around anyway. I can take a set of pictures, edit them, have them automatically archived to cloud storage, and send them to whoever I want.. all with a single device I was carrying around anyway.

This leaves open the fact that the 'real' camera workflow is still an option when there's the need for higher image quality and the time (or money to hire a photographer) to take advantage of what a DSLR or the like can do.

(When I compare what I can do with my iPhone to what my parents had available to them (a 110 format camera and 35mm Nikons), I like the tradeoffs a lot better. the image quality available now is definitely better than the 110. Some of those 35mm exposures are probably better quality than what I can get out of an iPhone, but they're all stuck in albums and slides, and nobody ever looks at them. )

kjkjadksj · 4h ago
The issue with the camera in newer iphones is that it uses an Ai engine to smooth things and add details that aren’t there.

If you want reference tier photos for documenting family history, modern mirrorless is better. DSLR from 10-15 years ago is also still great in all but the most challenging light conditions, where you could simply use a flash.

Jaxan · 3h ago
Especially on babies, the smoothing or noise reduction is weird. A newborn has a very specific skin with an enormous amount of details/speckles/marks. It’s very hard to capture for some reason. Couldn’t do it with my phone, only with a proper camera and shooting in raw.
KAMSPioneer · 2h ago
Hard agree. As a new parent, I bought a modern mirrorless camera before my kid was born, and the difference is noticeable. Especially, as you say, around skin details like milia (white spots on a newborn's skin) which often get wiped out on my Pixel (I'm sure by the AI processing).

If you are considering an expensive phone upgrade based off of the camera alone, consider buying a dedicated camera first, I say. I know the best camera is the one you have on you, etc...

kjkjadksj · 25m ago
When you think about all the stuff you schlep around with a kid, whats a few more ounces in a camera at that point.
markhalonen · 2h ago
big discussion was had around this a month ago https://candid9.com/phone-camera/
mattkrick · 4h ago
I’m in the exact same boat. Also toying with the idea of going back to android for the pixel 10 pro. I do miss android notifications and keyboard. Are there any features keeping you from going back?
giancarlostoro · 2h ago
The whole family is on iPhone, we use Mac now the way everything integrates together I just dont see myself going back. I spent way more on Android and Windows than I have on Apple products. My Macbook Pro with an M4 Pro chip costs half of what my Surface Book 2 laptop costs, and I can do more on it especially with AI locally.

Something about iOS and macOS just feels right. Any time I boot up my old Android phones they feel like a convoluted mess.

kjsingh · 4h ago
I am waiting for someone to clear the iphone air with the jeans back pocket test :)
giancarlostoro · 2h ago
Fair! I am also curious, I do hope they keep making iPhone Air models, I could see myself buying it in the future.
tmaly · 3h ago
At the rate of camera image size upgrades, we are going to need a 5TB icloud storage plan.
Gigachad · 1h ago
Video has always been the real storage eater. A few minutes of video is larger than the whole years worth of photos.
doctoboggan · 2h ago
I am looking to upgrade my phone, and at the same time leave my carrier (Verizon). The price I pay for 2 people compared to the price I see out there for other carriers is just too large.

Any suggestions for me while I shop around for "tier 2" carriers? I am primarily concerned with price, and then network coverage second (I am OK with sometimes being throttled, but would prefer to avoid large gaps in any coverage).

samcat116 · 30m ago
US Mobile is really good. You can also get on any carrier you want via it (and multiple if you are really inclined)
samename · 2h ago
I use Visible which uses Verizon’s network, at a steep discount. Never had any issues.
dylan604 · 2h ago
What happens when the sub-carrier gets deprioritized so that the main carrier's customers get priority? How frequently does your bandwidth suffer? You say never, but is that really the case or you've just become used to it? I know several people on these places like Boost or Metro or whatever, and their streaming experiences definitely take hits
jerlam · 49m ago
For Visible, anything above their cheapest plan will give you the same priority as postpaid Verizon. Many prepaid carriers will gladly take more money to shift you to a higher priority.

There is a list of all the prioritization tiers (aka QCI, or premium data) on all the three main US carriers here:

https://old.reddit.com/r/NoContract/comments/1mxogtx/data_pr...

vel0city · 2h ago
I use Mint which was an MVNO for T-Mobile. They've since been acquired by T-Mobile, but I haven't really experienced any difference in service. I also haven't used Visible, so I can't directly speak to that but Visible is owned by Verizon FWIW.

I probably experience times with deprioritization. 5G service can go from getting several hundred megabits with pretty low latencies to only getting a few megabits with potentially up to 100ms or so latency, depending on crowds. I don't recall any times where I had good signal but couldn't get any data, but definitely been in places where it'll struggle to do video chats or something at a big live event that doesn't have the extra 5G infra deployed. For example, an extra large crowd at the park for some event will probably give poor network experience but I'll otherwise get good connectivity in a modern sports arena.

In the end it's just a value proposition. Is having really fast network everywhere, all the time really that worth it to you? For many the answer is yes. But for me, on my personal device, if I'm getting poor data rates that's probably a clue I should really be putting my phone down and get back into whatever is happening in the park so I don't mind and the savings are quite nice.

amluto · 2h ago
I used to use them, and I had two issues:

1. Their international plan is garbage, and if you don’t use the international plan, you cannot usefully use them as a phone-and-SMS-over-WiFi only solution in conjunction with another carrier. Competitors like USMobile do not have this problem.

2. Their customer support and website are very bad.

doctoboggan · 2h ago
Yeah Visible keeps popping up on recommendation threads. I'll take a look at their offers. Do you suggest I buy a phone through them, or purchase from apple directly and bring it to the plan?
xnx · 2h ago
I've been satisfied with Mint. I look a Google Fi 2x a year, but Mint is still cheaper.
Choco31415 · 2h ago
Can confirm. I’m currently on Mint and have used Tello before. They both offer great service.
the_gastropod · 2h ago
You've got other good answers. But basically: there's no reason to not go with an MVNO. It's literally the same service for a fraction of the price. Pick one with whatever main carrier has the best coverage in your area.

Wikipedia has a solid table of U.S. MVNO's, for a good starting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mobile_virtual_network...

hnalien · 2h ago
So there is no more 'Plus' version? That was the sweet spot for many - non-pro pricing, yet the same large screen as the pro max. RIP
dmix · 2h ago
HN is always saying Apple has too many models where it's hard to choose and how they should go back to a simple line up.
kingsleyopara · 5h ago
Surprising there’s no matte-black iPhone 17 Pro - dark, low-reflectance finishes are standard in pro video kit because they minimise specular reflections and stray highlights; keeping a shiny silver finish and skipping a subdued matte black feels like a strange choice and undercuts the “Pro” claim.
runjake · 3h ago
Movie people don't normally care about the finish of the iPhone they are using. And the ones that do, use a case.

I've seen all sorts of non-black (let alone matte black) iPhone rigs used for motion pictures, including white and natural titanium colors. Eg. 28 Years Later used a variety of iPhone configurations and colors.

But yeah, I'm surprised there's no black/space gray option this year. Some consumers won't buy any other color.

linkage · 5h ago
It's not a strange choice at all when you realize that the majority of people use phone cases and it's more difficult to make matte "pop" in promotional content
seanmcdirmid · 4h ago
I wonder if someone will come up with the idea of vinyl wrap to protect your phone rather than using a slipon phone case. Then...you could have your phone be thin and get that matte finish. Couple that with a matte phone screen protector and I think the result would be pretty nice.
doublepg23 · 4h ago
Isn’t this d-brands original business model?
ihuman · 4h ago
Dbrand makes those
kjkjadksj · 4h ago
These have never been actual pro devices. Arguably not even prosumer. You probably don’t want scorched earth ai processing done on your photos as a pro but that is what the iPhones have been doing as of late. Most damning is no way to turn that off.
astrange · 4h ago
There is no such thing as a digital camera without processing. But third party camera apps can get images as raw as they want them and it supports professional video standards.

Try Halide with "Process Zero" if you want that, but I'm pretty sure the most popular 3p camera apps are Asian beauty apps that do far more and far worse quality processing.

kjkjadksj · 4h ago
Sure there is. Shoot in Raw format. Get a file representing a matrix of the sensor readout for each rgb pixel. Your post processing software of choice handles interpolation to the method of your choice.
astrange · 4h ago
> the sensor readout for each rgb pixel

Camera pixels are only one color at a time:

GGRR

BBGG

(quad-Bayer; Fujifilm uses a weirder one called X-Trans. And some of them will be missing because they're damaged or are focus pixels.)

And then you still have to do white balance and tone mapping, because your eyes do that and the camera sensor doesn't.

kjkjadksj · 26m ago
There is a big difference between interpolation (dealing with the bayer or xtrans array and delivering a 3 layer image file in your choice of format and bit depth using your choice of algorithms), shooting for white balance or tone mapping with a color card and calibrated monitor if you care about that level of accuracy, and what Apple is doing which is black box ML subtly yassifying your images and garbling small printed text. Especially when the commenters use case is building out the family archive and not posting selfies on Instagram.
onre · 4h ago
I'm typing this on a 6S Plus, and so far it seems like this'll do until iOS 15 patching stops.
cluoma · 2h ago
I think I'm throwing in the towel on my 7 Plus this year. I'd love to keep it around for a bit longer but too many apps and websites are no longer functional. It's starting to become a usability issue.
al_borland · 5h ago
I really like the new unibody design on the 17 Pro, as well as the orange. That seems like the first iPhone might feel like bypassing the case. However, seeing as I just got a 16 Pro last year, I don't think I can justify an upgrade just yet.

Overall this year seemed much better than last year.

kblissett · 4h ago
The AT&T carrier deals this year are wild. It seems like they’ll just throw a new phone at you for free as long as you agree to stay for 3 years.
Citizen8396 · 4h ago
Beyond the price of their services, they're probably thinking of all the data they can collect and sell in that time.
jerlam · 4h ago
Prepaid is so competitive now that "a free phone" is one of the few reasons to go postpaid (other than ignorance).
kjkjadksj · 4h ago
The glass screen is why you want a case not the frame.
BurningFrog · 4h ago
Each new model has an asymptotically smaller feature bump. In 10 years we may have converged on the complete cell phone.

Maybe the recent introduction of foldable phones indicates the opposite. Is it the final blip, or will something similarly disruptive happen every 5-7 years?

Discuss.

eloisant · 2h ago
We converged already 5 years ago, the feature bumps we're getting now are artificially created for marketing reasons.
ethbr1 · 3h ago
Imho, there are only two unsolved problems in mobile devices: (1) maximizing screen size (in a portable form factor) and (2) input method.

Anything else on the hardware side is mostly noise.

If I had to futurism bet, it'd be on eyeglass AR + pocket device being the next major change. With input method for that still tbd.

Gys · 4h ago
The number of models increase, the number of noticeable features decrease. All marketing, no vision.
musha68k · 5h ago
Through the last iterations I only ever upgrade my iPhone whenever there is a "meaningful" RAM upgrade in it for me. So this one here is not too bad going from 8GB to 12GB (Air, Pro, Pro Max).
astrange · 4h ago
You won't notice a difference, RAM upgrades get used by new camera features.

Use an ad blocker if you want Safari tabs to stay open longer.

musha68k · 4h ago
Unless we get to see someone doing more in-depth profiling we can't know. This should still give more headroom across app usage; especially when not using the camera then and probably even with (it's a 50% increase versus last mem max).
skydhash · 5h ago
Still no reason to upgrade. My shift from iPhone 8 to iPhone 13 was qualitative. Now much of the barrier to improvement is software, and they’re all gated by Apple.
raw_anon_1111 · 2h ago
USB C by itself is enough of a reason to upgrade. I have one set of cords that work everywhere and the iPhone supports all of the standard USB-C standards - video, storage, audio, and networking using the same devices you use on computers.

And MagSafe charging and stands.

danieldk · 4h ago
I think iPhone 17 is the first worthy upgrade to the base model in years, LPTO is a huge upgrade to the aging pre-iPhone 17 screen. The difference between Pro and non-Pro is pretty thin this year. I currently have a 16 Pro, might upgrade, but mostly because models are typically shifted through our family (so everyone gets an upgrade).
kjkjadksj · 4h ago
What I found with screens going back to an old 1280px macbook screen when the retina was in the shop is that you quickly lose appreciation for quality when you don’t have an example next to you. This is why the Apple Store model is good for sales, you can dangle the new screens on an hdr wallpaper and its clear that it is different to the one you already have. But again, it only became an issue because one day you made it an issue.
danieldk · 4h ago
I agree. Though I would formulate it a bit differently. You can live fine without HiDPI or >60Hz. But once you have used them for a few days, it's really hard to go back.

Our daughter still has an older iPhone with 60Hz and I cannot look at it. The flickery animations drive me crazy. Yet, I have had iPhones with < 120Hz screens for well over a decade.

kjkjadksj · 23m ago
I went back pretty easy. The real thing is the pixel viewing distance. At laptop viewing distances I couldn't see the pixels on the low res screen anyhow. The only real noticeable difference was ui text was a little bigger. Refresh rate you stop noticing fast. I personally can't tell when my m3 mbp is on 120hz on the power adapter or 60z on battery, maybe if I hunted for it specifically by scrolling at lightspeed.
ngokevin · 5h ago
Even an iPhone X was running great in 2025, until it finally gave up to age and the network module stopped working. iPhone 13s are lightning quick for me still.
losvedir · 5h ago
I'm still on an iPhone 11 and this might finally be the one to get me to upgrade. I don't need the "Pro" stuff, but the ProMotion was always frustratingly only associated with the Pro phones.

That said, I'm sort of frustrated with iOS overall, and sorely tempted to go back to Pixels, so I can't decide.

danieldk · 4h ago
I have a Pixel 9 to check out where Android is standing and for GrapheneOS. Unfortunately Pixel OS still has pretty bad bugs all the time (oneUI is much more polished, but has other issues) and the Pixel 10 is really overpriced compared to the iPhone 17 (the Pixel 10 is more midrange than a flagship, even though it has a flagship price).
mandeepj · 5h ago
> tempted to go back to Pixels

I got my first Pixel (10 Pro XL); Only because their AI integration felt cool. My iPhone 11 Pro is still doing great overall, besides sluggishness here and there, and random Chrome crashes. I might consider upgrading to 17 now due to speed and camera upgrades. Honestly, it was not an exciting upgrade, just like their last 5.

bitpush · 5h ago
What kind of frustrations do you have on iOS. Since you've used Pixels, you probably are in a good position to compare.
losvedir · 4h ago
The notifications are the biggest one. iOS insists on this Banner -> Lock Screen -> Notification Center lifecycle, and it drives me crazy that notifications move from Lock Screen to Notification Center simply by unlocking the phone and then doesn't show Notification Center notifications at a glance. I've missed so many notifications that way, because I quickly unlocked my phone to deal with something, thereby dismissing my current Lock Screen notifications, and then failing to realize that I had some, because when I tap my screen to light it up they don't show up (you have to explicitly swipe up to reveal Notification Center). Beyond that, I really appreciated Android's little top bar that shows the app icons that had notifications so I could quickly see if it was Slack, email, etc, that I had. Finally, Android lets you opt out of "Marketing" notifications at an OS level, while iOS doesn't have that.

Beyond that, I get frequent spam SMS's which are stupid. Android blocks all those. I have a Junk mail folder in email and hardly get email spam anymore. It feels like going back 20 years getting these random spam SMS's.

Finally, "glanceability" doesn't seem as good with the iPhone. One silly little thing is that if I'm using my iPhone it's sometimes very hard to see the date! If you have notifications you have to swipe down quite a bit to reveal that.

ihuman · 4h ago
The air and the non-pro 17 have ProMotion
losvedir · 4h ago
Right! That's why I said this might be the one to finally get me, since I'm not interested in Pro, other than ProMotion.
ihuman · 3h ago
Sorry, I misread your comment and thought you thought it was still exclusive to the pro
linkage · 4h ago
It's odd that the Air has 4 GB more RAM than the regular 17 even though it's meant to replace the Plus models from previous years (same specs, same difference in price point, etc.)
Hamuko · 3h ago
The iPhone 17 Air has the Pro SoC in it. It's sort of a in-between model between the base iPhone 17 and the luxury iPhone 17 Pro. Pro performance, base camera.
reilly3000 · 4h ago
I’ve been keen on having something that can do decent on-device inference. Otherwise my 14 Pro is still fantastic and probably will be for some time.
stevenhubertron · 4h ago
All models are so uninteresting to me. Maybe its finally time I try the Nothing Phon
wltr · 5h ago
> iPhone 17 introduces N1, a new Apple-designed wireless networking chip that enables Wi-Fi 7, Bluetooth 6, and Thread.

What is Thread?

terramex · 4h ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_(network_protocol)

> Thread is an IPv6-based, low-power mesh networking technology for Internet of things (IoT) products.

> Often used as a transport for Matter (the combination being known as Matter over Thread), the protocol has seen increased use for connecting low-power and battery-operated smart-home devices.

> Thread uses 6LoWPAN, which, in turn, uses the IEEE 802.15.4 wireless protocol with mesh communication (in the 2.4 GHz spectrum), as do Zigbee and other systems. However, Thread is IP-addressable, with cloud access and AES encryption. A BSD-licensed open-source implementation of Thread called OpenThread is available from and managed by Google.

omnicognate · 4h ago
A very badly named mesh networking protocol designed for IoT applications, usually used as the transport layer for the equally badly named "Matter" IoT protocol.
somanyphotons · 5h ago
sertsa · 4h ago
A newish IOT protocol, think Zigbee 2.0 kinda.

https://www.threadgroup.org/

wrigby · 4h ago
Thread is a mesh networking protocol mostly targeted at IoT and smart-home connectivity - it's basically a Zigbee competitor.
ComputerGuru · 5h ago
Zigbee like thing for IoT and Matter.
Hamuko · 4h ago
I'm surprised that Apple is giving every single iPhone model 256 GB starting capacity. My prediction would've been 256 GB for the Pro and 128 GB for the base iPhone 17. Guess those AI models need space?
danieldk · 4h ago
I didn't pay attention for the non-Pro, but for the Pro they 'said' they give you 256GB for the price of last year's 256 GB. So it seems like another step in moving the prices up.

Edit: 16 Pro 128 GB was $999 at introduction iPhone 17 Pro 256 GB is $1099. Better for the non-Pro though - the 16 128 GB was $799, the 17 256 GB is also $799.

kotaKat · 5h ago
Once again disappointed that we’re getting screwed over by “bill credit” carrier offers for 36 months and wish that US carriers would stop that crap.
toast0 · 4h ago
Most of my circle seems to like that crap. You can opt out, all of the carriers have prepaid offerings with much lower rates and a lot less financing. Maybe you get less data priority, almost certainly you get a lower tier of customer service, but those are ok tradeoffs for me. If you want to save more money, you can go to former MVNOs now owned by the carrier they run on or actually independent MVNOs. https://prepaidcompare.net/ seems like a good place to compare plans. They also have deals listings if you want to have fun with subsidy locked phones.
ben1040 · 4h ago
The 2 year contracts from the 2000s and early 2010s are back with a vengeance.
devrand · 4h ago
What's the concern here? Can the phone not just be bought outright?
kotaKat · 4h ago
If I trade in my phone, I want my trade-in offer now. Instead, the full value of whatever trade-in deal provided is split over 36 months as bill credits.

While the new phone might actually be “free” in one of these promotions, it’s not, naturally, because you’ve been thrown into a 36 month installment agreement separate of the cellphone service they’ve sold you on (that they also claim is “price locked” while independently raising surcharges and other fees).

lotsofpulp · 2h ago
Do a little more work and sell it on Facebook Marketplace.

Convenience comes at a cost.

burnt-resistor · 4h ago
Sell your phone, never trade it in. That's the surest way to lose money.
burnt-resistor · 4h ago
With inflation such as it is, finance it and don't be concerned about a temporary lock. Most carriers will unlock it after X months and/or for travel. Let the phone carrier eat it and conserve capital.
devrand · 3h ago
It seems like you can also finance it interest free through Apple themselves without being locked to a carrier.
ivape · 5h ago
I just browse the web on my phone. In fact, my phone is already too expensive just for that one thing. I’m not upgrading until the new phones can run a 5B model with adequate context size and adequate inferencing speeds.