We encountered this recently - we have some monitoring software for a ride that was written in-house by a guy who no longer works for us. It was running on a Windows XP machine that needed connectivity via 2 serial ports.
We ended up creating a disk image then emulating the machine in Hyper-V and passing through 2 usb-based serial ports. Works like a charm!
politelemon · 2h ago
Their excellent backward compatibility and longevity is both their strongest point and their eventual weakness. Part of it is likely because the same familiar desktop environment is also able to act as a server environment, and so it's had a huge sticking power.
I'd like to think that Linux as a platform for running such systems would have gotten a mention but it seems that BBC is unaware it exists.
AlienRobot · 1h ago
Is Linux better for backward compatibility than Windows?
estimator7292 · 22m ago
Generally no, and that's a feature, not a bug. The main problem you run into is dynamically linked dependencies. If a program depends on some particular behavior in a particular version of a library that has been updated, it won't work on a modern system with modern libraries. You can work around it in most cases, but it's not particularly easy or straightforward.
Old programs with statically linked dependencies might work, but you run into issues where the GUI framework is broken or incompatible or your window manager doesn't like it. Lots of little random stuff like that.
Windows is best in class at backwards compatability, though whether that's a good thing is up for debate.
AlienRobot · 3m ago
Why wouldn't that be a good thing? I don't want my apps breaking just because the OS updated.
arp242 · 41m ago
Depends; you should be able to still run binaries from the 90s, but if it's dynamically linked and doesn't ship with the libraries finding compatible libraries might be a pain and it won't run out the box. If you have the source code, then it should usually compile with minimal or no changes unless it depends on very old libraries that have seen incompatible changes (which is often the case). One of the nicer things about Windows is that it's a much more comprehensive "batteries included" system.
loph · 1h ago
Some businesses are still using DEC PDP-11s, first released in the 1970s. Those are even more "ancient." Many of these are used for industrial controls, among other applications.
The article does not mention what OS is being used, but RT-11 was designed for "real-time" applications. That was released in 1973, so over 50 years ago.
estimator7292 · 21m ago
IBM is still producing mainframe systems to this day. More modern for sure, but still fundamentally an ancient system and architecture
makeitdouble · 1h ago
> A while back we looked into upgrading one of the computers to Windows Vista. By the time we added up the money it would take to buy new licenses for all the software, it was going to cost $50,000 or $60,000 [£38,000 to £45,000]
I wonder if at some point virtualizing, and potentially adding a modern control layer on top of their current machines is a potential path forward.
darth_avocado · 1h ago
No it isn’t. I tech infrastructure gets the same treatment as regular infrastructure: we don’t want to build a new one because the old one kinda still works and a new one would cost us money.
The reality is that you need to keep upgrading and building new infrastructure. Because inevitably the old one won’t work or no longer be enough to support the needs of the users. And when that happens, it will be even more painful and expensive to get it up and running again. And the best case scenario would be that no one loses their lives over it.
IcyWindows · 2h ago
This is such a weird take.
People are upset because their hardware is still working??
Is it better if it just stopped working one day?
wmf · 2h ago
Often these old systems are slow. They could get a big boost from an SSD or a newer CPU but the owners don't want to risk any incompatibilities.
jimnotgym · 47m ago
I took a few old systems that 'only ran on XP' and upgraded them to Windows 10 and an SSD. They worked fine. I guess sometimes it is just that the manufacturer didn't want to take the risk.
codeulike · 2h ago
Read the article. Its mostly to do with inertia in large organisations or multiple failed projects to replace old systems
For the people who use this old technology, life can get tedious. For four years, psychiatrist Eric Zabriskie would show up to his job at the US Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) and start the day waiting for a computer to boot up. "I had to get to the clinic early because sometimes it would take 15 minutes just to log into the computer," Zabriskie says. "Once you're in you try to never log out. I'd hold on for dear life. It was excruciatingly slow."
..
Most VA medical facilities manage health records using a suite of tools launched by the US government in 1997 called the Computerized Patient Record System (CPRS). But it works on top of an even older system called VistA – not to be confused with the Windows Vista operating system – which first debuted in 1985 and was originally built on the operating system MS-DOS.
The VA is now on its fourth attempt to overhaul this system after a series of fits and starts that dates back almost 25 years. The current plan is to replace it with a health record system used by the US Department of Defense by 2031. "VA remains steadfast in its commitment to implementing a modernised, interoperable Federal [electronic health record] system to improve health care delivery and positively impact patient care," says VA press secretary Pete Kasperowicz. He says the system is already live at six VA sites and will be deployed at 19 out of 170 facilities by 2026.
nxobject · 1h ago
A call to action for anyone with a 5 1/4" floppy drive:
> The only thing missing from Grigar's collection is a PC that reads five-and-a-quarter-inch floppy disks, she says. Despite their ubiquity, the machines are surprisingly hard to find. "I look on eBay, Craigslist, I have friends out looking for me, nothing. I've been looking for six years," she says. If you have one of these old computers lying around, and it still works, Grigar would love to hear from you.
mrspuratic · 2h ago
I've been using a Windows 95 Beta CD for a coffee coaster all these years. Still works just fine without patching or service packs :)
star-glider · 25m ago
Hey, if it still works. . . .
Just don’t connect it to the internet.
ProllyInfamous · 2h ago
My modernest operating system is a current distro of Ubuntu.
Still in love with my Mac OS 10.6 (Snow Leopard) tax machine (offline).
I keep another machine of the same era (Intel Core2Duo) online with Win7Pro, for official paperwork/logins. Doesn't seem to be hacked / compromised, yet (what people usually say).
Also rocking modern Apple Silicon (M2Pro/3/4) which is impressive equipment, particularly considering their miniscule power usage. The current 15" MacBookAir will stream video for the majority of a day on a single charge, and from CostCo can be occassionally purchased for $849 (which includes an additional year of warranty).
jimnotgym · 57m ago
'People privileged to use ancient computers'
I was happy with Windows XP, Windows vista, 7,8,8.1,10, and 11 added nothing to my quality of life that I can think of?
cactusfrog · 1h ago
I wonder how many nuclear power plants run on windows xp.
globular-toast · 1h ago
Something irks me about the BBC using "ancient" to refer to something a few mere decades old. I know we use it that way but the irony seems to be lost here.
We ended up creating a disk image then emulating the machine in Hyper-V and passing through 2 usb-based serial ports. Works like a charm!
I'd like to think that Linux as a platform for running such systems would have gotten a mention but it seems that BBC is unaware it exists.
Old programs with statically linked dependencies might work, but you run into issues where the GUI framework is broken or incompatible or your window manager doesn't like it. Lots of little random stuff like that.
Windows is best in class at backwards compatability, though whether that's a good thing is up for debate.
see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30505421
The article does not mention what OS is being used, but RT-11 was designed for "real-time" applications. That was released in 1973, so over 50 years ago.
I wonder if at some point virtualizing, and potentially adding a modern control layer on top of their current machines is a potential path forward.
The reality is that you need to keep upgrading and building new infrastructure. Because inevitably the old one won’t work or no longer be enough to support the needs of the users. And when that happens, it will be even more painful and expensive to get it up and running again. And the best case scenario would be that no one loses their lives over it.
People are upset because their hardware is still working??
Is it better if it just stopped working one day?
For the people who use this old technology, life can get tedious. For four years, psychiatrist Eric Zabriskie would show up to his job at the US Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) and start the day waiting for a computer to boot up. "I had to get to the clinic early because sometimes it would take 15 minutes just to log into the computer," Zabriskie says. "Once you're in you try to never log out. I'd hold on for dear life. It was excruciatingly slow."
..
Most VA medical facilities manage health records using a suite of tools launched by the US government in 1997 called the Computerized Patient Record System (CPRS). But it works on top of an even older system called VistA – not to be confused with the Windows Vista operating system – which first debuted in 1985 and was originally built on the operating system MS-DOS.
The VA is now on its fourth attempt to overhaul this system after a series of fits and starts that dates back almost 25 years. The current plan is to replace it with a health record system used by the US Department of Defense by 2031. "VA remains steadfast in its commitment to implementing a modernised, interoperable Federal [electronic health record] system to improve health care delivery and positively impact patient care," says VA press secretary Pete Kasperowicz. He says the system is already live at six VA sites and will be deployed at 19 out of 170 facilities by 2026.
> The only thing missing from Grigar's collection is a PC that reads five-and-a-quarter-inch floppy disks, she says. Despite their ubiquity, the machines are surprisingly hard to find. "I look on eBay, Craigslist, I have friends out looking for me, nothing. I've been looking for six years," she says. If you have one of these old computers lying around, and it still works, Grigar would love to hear from you.
Just don’t connect it to the internet.
Still in love with my Mac OS 10.6 (Snow Leopard) tax machine (offline).
I keep another machine of the same era (Intel Core2Duo) online with Win7Pro, for official paperwork/logins. Doesn't seem to be hacked / compromised, yet (what people usually say).
Also rocking modern Apple Silicon (M2Pro/3/4) which is impressive equipment, particularly considering their miniscule power usage. The current 15" MacBookAir will stream video for the majority of a day on a single charge, and from CostCo can be occassionally purchased for $849 (which includes an additional year of warranty).
I was happy with Windows XP, Windows vista, 7,8,8.1,10, and 11 added nothing to my quality of life that I can think of?