Vibe Coding Is the Worst Idea of 2025 [video]

42 tomwphillips 50 8/20/2025, 6:02:29 AM youtube.com ↗

Comments (50)

bitpush · 1h ago
Here's how Innovators Dilemma plays out.

Step 1: Some upstarts create a new way of doing something. It’s clunky and unrefined.

Step 2: "Experts" and senior folks in the field dismiss it as a "toy." It doesn't follow their established rules or best practices and seems amateurish. They wouldn't recommend it to anyone serious.

Step 3: The "toy" gets adopted by a small group of outsiders or newcomers who aren't burdened by the "right way" of doing things. They play with it, improve it, and find new applications for it.

Step 4: The "toy" becomes so effective and widespread that it becomes the new standard. The original experts are left looking out of touch, their deep knowledge now irrelevant to the new way of doing things.

We're at step 2, bordering on 3.

* Executives at Nokia and BlackBerry saw the first iPhone, with its lack of a physical keyboard, as an impractical toy for media consumption, not a serious work device.

* Professional photographers viewed the first low-resolution digital cameras as flimsy gadgets, only for them to completely decimate the film industry.

branko_d · 1h ago
The problem is not that the experts have dismissed vibe coding without even trying it.

The problem is that the experts have tried it and found that vibe coding doesn't actually work at scale that they need.

Will it ever? Perhaps, but I'd argue a near-AGI level of intelligence would need to be achieved first. When that happens, we have bigger problems (and/or opportunities?) than a few programmers losing their jobs.

adastra22 · 22m ago
You’re mistaking current capabilities for potential future extensions. The the exact thing the comment you are replying to is talking about.
edg5000 · 1h ago
From your comment I understand you tried and didn't like it? Why not?
insin · 1h ago
strawhatguy · 1h ago
That’s hilarious. Yep still gotta know what you are doing.

Good time saver though, if you do.

apples_oranges · 35m ago
Walk less, get fat. Write less code, get ..
j4coh · 57m ago
We're also at step 2 bordering on 3 in my plan to solve the housing problem by making buildings out of dried human waste.
WJW · 51m ago
Not to mention at step 2 of my plan of getting to the moon by climbing progressively higher trees. Step 3 will come any day now!
betaminecraft · 1h ago
None of what you said maps onto vibe coding. No one is calling it a toy, and it isn't clunky or unrefined. Claude Code I've heard is refined.

The real problem with it is that it doesn't work. It isn't "right way wrong way". It doesn't work.

wapxmas · 22m ago
"Claude Code I've heard is refined." I've heard, but "The real problem with it is that it doesn't work.". Seems strange.
betaminecraft · 11m ago
What didn't you get? Are you not a native English speaker?
bitpush · 1h ago
Did you watch the video that was posted? He literally says 41 seconds in - "[vibe coding is a] naive toytown approach to programming"

EDIT: digital cameras didnt work, until it did. streaming didnt work, until it did. ecommerce didnt work, until it did.

Ianjit · 47m ago
Cold fusion didn't work, until it did. 3D TVs didn't work, until they did. Flying cars didn't work, until they did. Satellite phones didn't work, until they did.
microsoftedging · 58m ago
I feel like there's a bit of survivorship bias here. Not saying that vibe coding is completely useless, but you still have to review the code it produces in order to make the most of it really. It isn't completely autonomous (yet) to the point where it can scale to any of the examples you mentioned imo.
omnicognate · 35m ago
Naming two successful technologies says nothing. Your steps don't follow inevitably from one to another and there's a vast universe of failed technologies and stillborn revolutions that prove it. If you want to persuade anyone that vibe coding will ultimately replace traditional coding you need to give reasons you think it belongs with digital cameras and streaming and not with lisp machines, ekranoplans and every attempt at "no code" in history. Otherwise you're just making noise.
betaminecraft · 10m ago
> digital cameras didnt work, until it did

What?

yobbo · 38m ago
Step 2 does not imply step 3.

Step 3 only occurs in a small fraction of cases. Step 4 even smaller fraction.

apples_oranges · 25m ago
I saw these arguments in the crypto scene, and they all sounded great. But I also use crypto for payments (albeit rarely)..

Now this, and I also vibe code but I'm not convinced it will change too much for the coding profession. Will probably make it suck a bit more in relation to management and juniors who will make more laziness mistakes quicker.

tomwphillips · 1h ago
Did you watch the video?

Considering how many developers still don't write tests, pair program, or do CI and CD (shipping multiple times a day) – all things Dave argues for – I don't think it is fair to dismiss him as the establishment or incumbent.

goatlover · 38m ago
How about the examples where the toy didn't result in a new standard, and the experts/senior folks were right?
loliver666 · 32m ago
That doesn't fit his narrative so it's ignored.
bitpush · 25m ago
Haha I'm not that dense. I'll give you counter examples. Bitcoin (supposed to revolutionize the world still waiting), Apple Vision Pro (supposed to change how we work, wear it on streets and airplanes, still waiting..)
adastra22 · 20m ago
I wear my AVP on airplanes. Only thing holding it back is the price…
Mashimo · 1h ago
Or, maybe it will be useful, but only for a niche group.
throwawaybob420 · 1h ago
This is utter and complete nonsense. It’s such cope, I really have no other words to use.
Mountain_Skies · 1h ago
Sounds like survivorship bias.
bitpush · 1h ago
You probably meant cherry picking, but it is still a useful framework to think through.

Smart people get things wrong all the time. But that isnt to say we jump at every opportunity.

Guthur · 1h ago
What have you based this model on, we seem to constantly make such broad statements of ontological truth without backing it up with any sort of rigour. Just because you can create a model that seems to fit some particular empirical truth doesn't mean that it represents some broader truth.
jgalt212 · 1h ago
> toy for media consumption, not a serious work device.

But this is still largely true.

bitpush · 1h ago
Really? What companies are offering Nokia and Blackberrys as corp phone in 2025.
thrown-0825 · 1h ago
this doesn't hold water when your "clunky" and "unrefined" technique is using an ad-lib bullshit machine as an orchestration / rules engine.

people are trying to dance around admitting that the fundamental premise of this entire approach is flawed and will always give inconsistent results.

_Algernon_ · 33m ago
>Executives at Nokia and BlackBerry saw the first iPhone, with its lack of a physical keyboard, as an impractical toy for media consumption

This also is how most people use their smart phone today. They were right. Perhaps they just didn't realize that people wanted a on-the-go impractical toy for media consumption.

thaumasiotes · 37m ago
> Executives at Nokia and BlackBerry saw the first iPhone, with its lack of a physical keyboard, as an impractical toy for media consumption, not a serious work device.

You say that like subsequent events overtook them. But I see this complaint on HN pretty frequently. I agree with it. Nobody does their work on a phone. The phones go out of their way to make that difficult.

closewith · 10m ago
> Nobody does their work on a phone.

I don't think you could be less in touch with the current business world.

dncornholio · 58m ago
Why do AI comments like these always gets me triggered? Is it the passive aggression in these comments?

> aren't burdened by the "right way" of doing things.

This is just another way of saying "have no clue what they are doing". There's a reason devs do thing the "right way".

Bo0kerDeWitt · 26m ago
I'm not a programmer, I work in finance, but I've read half of a book called "Python Crash Course".

I've been trying to improve my productivity recently, so I vibe coded some scripts that help me record and analyse my time. I understand the code at a high level, well, maybe 80% of it anyway.

This debate doesn't mean anything to me, I'm just going to keep vibe coding.

adastra22 · 18m ago
I suggest reading about software architecture, and reading A LOT of high quality human generated code. LLM coding tools work, when the person using it has a frame of reference for quality to compare against.
rspoerri · 40m ago
i have 20+ years coding experience, but i am a teacher not a programmer. i never coded ts. so i can easily review and fix code, but i dont know functions and parameters.

3 days ago i started modifying a kanban editor that was available for vscode. i wanted to have it compatible with an obsidian markdown kanban format i was using. but obsidian is to slow for me.

after 3 days it's not only working, but as far as i can tell it's a way better kanban editor then most of the ones i tried on vscode's extensions. of course i have specific needs (no dates, deadlines, priority), but a nicely tightly layouted interface with fast editing possibilities.

i would not have gotten this far in 2 weeks without claude code. i know i havent reviewed most of the code, except saving and loading. so it will likely look bad.

edit: in case you are interested: https://github.com/ludos1978/markdown-kanban-obsidian

nialse · 1h ago
4 days into vibe coding a POC in a framework and language I don’t know, but with 40 years of coding experience: It’s amazing!

The scenario is perfect, a use case that is not currently supported but may well make sense. It’s basically sketching out an idea to let business evaluate its market viability, and to gather further end-user input.

Will the code reach production? It just might, but it at least needs review and refactoring by a developer seasoned in the framework. They might even want to rebuild it, and then they have the yard stick which to measure their output. And if they need a specification, it can be generated from the code in which ever specification format required by their processes.

The key here is that I’ve been able to iterate on the POC many times in a short time. The idea sketch has been refined, necessary details added, while others removed. Functionality swapped in and out while testing different approaches.

Right now vibe coding in this way requires substantial experience in software development to frame the problems and solutions to the AI. Without my understanding of the domain (both the software domain and the actual domain) vibe coding the POC would not have succeed.

My greatest concern is that it looks and works too good and thus will be kept as is even in production. As the old adage says: There are no temporary solutions, just more or less permanent solutions. A temporary solution that works is a permanent solution.

TheEdonian · 58m ago
Except we all know that that vibe coded POC will never be rewritten and if it's a market fit will be pushed to production by management.
Ekaros · 31m ago
And then it will crash and burn because things like security was forgotten. Or something like multi-tenancy was not designed in from ground...
closewith · 9m ago
That's the current state of the human art, so no regression here.
ilitirit · 1h ago
I don't really have that much of an issue with vibe coding as an appropriate tool in experienced hands. I think the worst ideas in 2025 are probably related to IT execs pushing AI in the wrong ways, or people espousing vibe coding as some sort of software development panacea.
OutOfHere · 1h ago
Vibe coding in experienced hands, such as by those who actually review the output, is no longer vibe coding. It is then AI coding.
daedrdev · 1h ago
It's bad software practice and insecure sure but those are not things people notice and the tech industry has historically been terrible at them anyway. I think people will build things with it because they can.
WesolyKubeczek · 48m ago
The problem with vibe coding is that its promise is “you tell what your application needs to do, and you get a working application in the end, no need to even know that there is any code”. Then you try it, fail, and if uou say so, angry buck-toothed smelly nerds start to pile on you to tell you that yeah it’s vibe alright, BUT you need to AKCHYUALLY vet the code it generates and you AKCHYUALLY need to get better at prompting and and and and and, completely ruining the vibe and failing on the promise.

So if I have 20 years of experience writing working code, “vibing it” is frustrating because I now need to master a “prompting language” which is not how I speak at all, it’s nondeterministic and fuzzy, and I need to threaten and beg simultaneously, and tell it to not hallucinate, or else I kill its mother.

Another “but” is that my today’s prompting is not at all guaranteed to produce the same results tomorrow! Companies keep tweaking their models and system prompts all the time. Today I’m the “A” in their A/B testing, and tomorrow I’m a “B”. And models that can be run locally are not useful enough yet. All in all, it resembles playing a slot machine where it gets you small winnings once in a while to keep you going.

If my subscription runs out, or the LLM provider goes under, I’m afraid all my outsourced knowledge goes with it. It’s too easy to get lazy if the machine gives you the abovementioned small winnings, just as it is easy to forget that even ubiquitous things like bread in stores and indoor plumbing are a privilege.

OutOfHere · 1h ago
Karpathy seriously needs to apologize for coining the term. He incidentally destroyed not only an entire industry and millions of jobs around the world, but basically everything, considering that AI just doesn't produce bug free code. AI's output needs careful review.
willvarfar · 58m ago
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the vast majority of code was buggy before AI and AGI is close simply because the bar that humans set for intelligence is pretty low.

Yeah if you're an expert you can spot some of the bugs in AI-generated code as easily as you can spot the same bugs in the average developer's average code. Of course, there will be bugs you don't see, including all the extant bugs in your own handwritten code...

I think AI has a way of automating away the low quality code that the vast majority of our industry is built upon and churns out all the time. And the vast majority of code and codebases is just hmm someone pays us to make it, it doesn't have to be particularly stellar...? And that is what will stop being paid for.

ukuina · 1h ago
Not sure if you're being serious here, but coining the term doesn't make him responsible for the other things you've mentioned.