I’m the Co-founder and CTO of Krea. We’re excited because we wanted to release the weights for our model and share it with the HN community for a long time.
My team and I will try to be online and try to answer any questions you may have throughout the day.
jackphilson · 35m ago
Hi. Thanks for this. What is your goal of doing so? From a business standpoint. Or is it purely altruistic?
dvrp · 17m ago
Haha-classic!
It’s simple: hackability and recruiting!
The open-source community hacking around it and playing with it PLUS talented engineers who may be interested in working with us already makes this release worth it. A single talented distributed systems engineer has a lot of impact here.
Also, the company ethos is around AI hackability/controllability, high-bar for talent, and AI for creatives - so this aligns perfectly.
The fact that Krea serves both in-house and 3rd-Party models tells you that we are not that bullish on models being a moat.
wjrb · 1m ago
I can say that it's definitely working on me! I hadn't heard of Krea before, and this is a great introduction to your work. Thanks for sharing it.
ilc · 1h ago
Tried a simple prompt, and got some pretty interesting results:
"Octopus DJ spinning the turntables at a rave."
The human like hands the DJ sprouts are interesting, and no amount of prompting seems to stop them.
Opinionated, as the paper says.
earthicus · 36m ago
Describing it as "Octopus DJ with no fingers" got rid of the hands for me, but interestingly, also removed every anthropomorphized element of the octopus, so that it was literally just an octopus spinning turntables.
sangwulee · 7h ago
Hi! I'm lead researcher on Krea-1. FLUX.1 Krea is a 12B rectified flow model distilled from Krea-1, designed to be compatible with FLUX architecture. Happy to answer any technical questions :)
oompty · 23m ago
The model looks incredible!
Regarding this part: > Since flux-dev-raw is a guidance distilled model, we devise a custom loss to finetune the model directly on a classifier-free guided distribution.
Could you go more into detail on the specific loss used for this and any other possible tips for finetuning this that you might have? I remember the general open source ai art community had a hard time with finetuning the original distilled flux-dev so I'm very curious about that.
swyx · 1h ago
thanks for doing this!
what does " designed to be compatible with FLUX architecture" mean and why is that important?
sangwulee · 1h ago
FLUX.1 is one of the most popular open weights text-to-image models. We distilled Krea-1 to FLUX.1 [dev] model so that the community can adopt it seamlessly into existing ecosystem. Any finetuning code, workflows, etc that was built on top of FLUX.1 [dev] can be reused with our model :)
swyx · 7m ago
do LoRAs conflict with your distillation?
bangaladore · 1h ago
Can someone ELI5 why the safetensor file is 23.8 GB, given the 12B parameter model? Does the model use closer to 24 GB of VRAM or 12 GB of VRAM. I've always associated a 1 billion parameter = 1 GB of VRAM. Is this estimate inaccurate?
sangwulee · 1h ago
Quick napkin math assuming bfloat16 format : 1B * 16 bits = 16B bits = 2GB.
Since it's a 12B parameter model, you get around ~24GB. Downcasting to bfloat16 from float32 comes with pretty minimal performance degradation, so we uploaded the weights in bfloat16 format.
petercooper · 1h ago
That's a good ballpark for something quantized to 8 bits per parameter. But you can 2x/4x that for 16 and 32 bit.
7734128 · 1h ago
I've never seen a 32 bit model. There's bound to be a few of them, but it's hardly a normal precision.
zamadatix · 1h ago
Some of the most famous models were distributed as F32, e.g. GPT-2. As things have shifted more towards mass consumption of model weights it's become less and less common to see.
nodja · 15m ago
> As things have shifted more towards mass consumption of model weights it's become less and less common to see.
Not the real reason. The real reason is that training has moved to FP/BF16 over the years as NVIDIA made that more efficient in their hardware, the same reason you're starting to see some models being released in 8bit formats (deepseek).
Of course people can always quantize the weights to smaller sizes, but the master versions of the weights is usually 16bit.
petercooper · 41m ago
And on the topic of image generation models, I think all the Stable Diffusion 1.x models were distributed in f32.
piperswe · 1h ago
A parameter can be any size float. Lots of downloadable models are FP8 (8 bits per parameter), but it appears this model is FP16 (16 bits per parameter)
Often, the training is done in FP16 then quantized down to FP8 or FP4 for distribution.
TuringNYC · 1h ago
I usually use https://github.com/axolotl-ai-cloud/axolotl on Lambda/Together for working with these types of models. Curious what others are using? What is the quickest way to get started? They mention Pre-training and Post-training but sadly didnt provide any reference starter scripts.
dvrp · 1h ago
We actually have a GitHub repository to help with inference code.
Let me see if we can add more details on the blog post and thanks for the flag!
TuringNYC · 1h ago
Thanks! Yes, the inference is pretty straightforward, but the real opportunity IMHO is the custom pre-training and post-training opportunities given the open weights.
We have not added a separate RTX accelerated version for FLUX.1 Krea, but the model is fully compatible with existing FLUX.1 dev codebase. I don't think we made a separate onnx export for it though. Doing 4~8 bit quantized version with SVDQuant would be a nice follow up so that the checkpoint is more friendly for consumer grade hardware.
TuringNYC · 1h ago
I'd recommend you offer a clearly documented pathway for companies to license commercial output usage rights if they get the results they seek (i'll know soon enough!)
Non-commercial license... What's the point even, I can't use it for anything.
hhh · 3m ago
for the love of the game, not for corporate greed
kmavm · 2h ago
Amazing. I can practically smell that owl it looks so darned owl-like.
From the article it doesn’t seem as though photorealism per se was a goal in training; was that just emergent from human preferences, or did it take some specific dataset construction mojo?
sangwulee · 2h ago
I love owls. Photorealism was one of the focus areas for training because "AI look" (e.g. plastic skin) was biggest complaint for FLUX.1 model series. Photorealism was achieved with both careful curation of finetuning and preference dataset.
Thanks for the release to the team! Any plans on doing the same for FLUX.1 Kontext?
OsrsNeedsf2P · 2h ago
Cool to see an open weight model for this. But what's the business use case? Is it for people who want to put fake faces on their website that don't look AI generated?
dvrp · 2h ago
Thanks!
From a business point of view, there are many use-cases. Here's a list in no particular order:
- You can quickly generate assets that can be used _alongside_ more traditional tools such as Adobe Photoshop, After Effects, or Maya/Blender/3ds Max. I've seen people creating diffuse maps for 3D using a mix of diffusion models and manual tweaking with Photoshop.
- Because this model is compatible with the FLUX architecture, we've also seen people personalizing the model to keep products or characters consistent across shots. This is useful in e-commerce and fashion industry. We allow easy training in our website — we labeled it Krea 1 — to do this, but the idea with this release is to encourage people with local rigs and more powerful GPUs to be able to tweak with LoRAs themselves too.
- Then I've seen fascinating use-cases such as UI/UX designers who prompt the model to create icons, illustrations, and sometimes even whole layouts that then they use as a reference (like Pinterest) to refine their designs on Figma. This reminds me of people who have a raster image and then vectorize it manually using the pen tool in Adobe Illustrator.
We also have seen big companies using it for both internal presentations and external ads across marketing teams and big agencies like Publicis.
EDIT: Then there's a more speculative use-case that I have in mind: Generating realistic pictures of food.
While many restaurants have people who either make illustrations of their menu items and others have photographers, the big tail of restaurants do not have the means/expertise to do this. The idea we have from the company perspective is to make it as easy as snapping a few pictures of all your dishes and being able to turn all your menu (in this case) into a set of professional-looking pictures that accurately represent your menu.
gshklovski · 2h ago
Helpful blog post for understanding what kind of data is needed for these models!
Does this have any application for generating realistic scenes for robotics training?
sangwulee · 2h ago
Thank you! Glad you find it helpful.
The model is focused on photorealism so it should be able to generate most realistic scenes. Although, I think using 3D engines would be more suitable for typical cases for robotics training since it gives you ground truth data on objects, location, etc.
One interesting use case would be if you are focusing on a robotics task that would require perception of realistic scenes.
dvrp · 2h ago
Hey thanks! I’ll ask Sangwu to hop here to answer this and give a more research-oriented answer
erwannmillon · 1h ago
yeah data really is everything that was the number one lesson from this whole project
paparicio · 1h ago
Great, these people are crazy. CONGRATS!!!
dvrp · 1h ago
Haha thanks! Do you happen to have a use-case for it?
bluehark · 1h ago
How large was the dataset used for post-training?
sangwulee · 1h ago
We used two types of datasets for post-training. Supervised finetuning data and preference data used for RLHF stage. You can actually use less than < 1M samples to significantly boost the aesthetics. Quality matters A LOT. Quantity helps with generalisation and stability of the checkpoints though.
erwannmillon · 2h ago
yoo i'm also a researcher on the krea 1 project and happy to answer any questions :)
No comments yet
qlm · 1h ago
Images still look AI generated
dvrp · 1h ago
Yeah, there are still imperfections. But, it’s surprising to us how much the quality can be improved without the need of a whole pre-training (re-) run.
sergiotapia · 1h ago
For the Krea team that might be reading: I was trying to evaluate Krea for my image gen use case, and couldn't find:
Though we wanted to keep this technical blogpost free from marketing fluff, but maybe we over-did it.
However, sometimes it's hard to give an exact price per image, as it depends on resolution, number of steps, whether a LoRA is being used or not, etc.
leftstrokeviral · 1h ago
How much data is the model trained on?
dvrp · 1h ago
Copying and pasting Sangwu’s answer:
We used two types of datasets for post-training. Supervised finetuning data and preference data used for RLHF stage. You can actually use less than < 1M samples to significantly boost the aesthetics. Quality matters A LOT. Quantity helps with generalisation and stability of the checkpoints though.
dvrp · 8h ago
For Dang or HN-mods:
I noticed that the URL for this submission is wrong: I tried to submit the correct URL (https://www.krea.ai/blog/flux-krea-open-source-release) but, for some reason, the submission gets flagged as duplicated and then I can only find this item which has a URL to our old blog post.
In the mean time, I'll setup a server-side redirect from the old blog post to our new one, but it would be nice to fix the link and I don't think I can do it on my side.
Our software follows canonical links when it finds them.
I've fixed the link above now (and rolled back the clock on the submission, to make up for lost time) but you might want to fix this for future pages.
dvrp · 2h ago
OMG. Thank you! I had to setup a CDN-level redirect and I was so confused as to why when I asked others to help, their submissions were flagged as [dupe] or [dead]
Thank you so much! I knew that HN software was advanced, but I didn’t know you guys used Canonical URLs like Google does. Smart and thanks for helping us with this slip!!!
I’m the Co-founder and CTO of Krea. We’re excited because we wanted to release the weights for our model and share it with the HN community for a long time.
My team and I will try to be online and try to answer any questions you may have throughout the day.
It’s simple: hackability and recruiting!
The open-source community hacking around it and playing with it PLUS talented engineers who may be interested in working with us already makes this release worth it. A single talented distributed systems engineer has a lot of impact here.
Also, the company ethos is around AI hackability/controllability, high-bar for talent, and AI for creatives - so this aligns perfectly.
The fact that Krea serves both in-house and 3rd-Party models tells you that we are not that bullish on models being a moat.
"Octopus DJ spinning the turntables at a rave."
The human like hands the DJ sprouts are interesting, and no amount of prompting seems to stop them.
Opinionated, as the paper says.
Regarding this part: > Since flux-dev-raw is a guidance distilled model, we devise a custom loss to finetune the model directly on a classifier-free guided distribution.
Could you go more into detail on the specific loss used for this and any other possible tips for finetuning this that you might have? I remember the general open source ai art community had a hard time with finetuning the original distilled flux-dev so I'm very curious about that.
what does " designed to be compatible with FLUX architecture" mean and why is that important?
Not the real reason. The real reason is that training has moved to FP/BF16 over the years as NVIDIA made that more efficient in their hardware, the same reason you're starting to see some models being released in 8bit formats (deepseek).
Of course people can always quantize the weights to smaller sizes, but the master versions of the weights is usually 16bit.
Often, the training is done in FP16 then quantized down to FP8 or FP4 for distribution.
Check this out: https://github.com/krea-ai/flux-krea
Let me see if we can add more details on the blog post and thanks for the flag!
In a nutshell, it follows the same license as BFL Flux-dev model.
we prepared a blogpost about how we trained FLUX Krea if you're interested in learning more: https://www.krea.ai/blog/flux-krea-open-source-release
From the article it doesn’t seem as though photorealism per se was a goal in training; was that just emergent from human preferences, or did it take some specific dataset construction mojo?
- GitHub repository: https://github.com/krea-ai/flux-krea
- Model Technical Report: https://www.krea.ai/blog/flux-krea-open-source-release
- Huggingface model card: https://huggingface.co/black-forest-labs/FLUX.1-Krea-dev
From a business point of view, there are many use-cases. Here's a list in no particular order:
- You can quickly generate assets that can be used _alongside_ more traditional tools such as Adobe Photoshop, After Effects, or Maya/Blender/3ds Max. I've seen people creating diffuse maps for 3D using a mix of diffusion models and manual tweaking with Photoshop.
- Because this model is compatible with the FLUX architecture, we've also seen people personalizing the model to keep products or characters consistent across shots. This is useful in e-commerce and fashion industry. We allow easy training in our website — we labeled it Krea 1 — to do this, but the idea with this release is to encourage people with local rigs and more powerful GPUs to be able to tweak with LoRAs themselves too.
- Then I've seen fascinating use-cases such as UI/UX designers who prompt the model to create icons, illustrations, and sometimes even whole layouts that then they use as a reference (like Pinterest) to refine their designs on Figma. This reminds me of people who have a raster image and then vectorize it manually using the pen tool in Adobe Illustrator.
We also have seen big companies using it for both internal presentations and external ads across marketing teams and big agencies like Publicis.
EDIT: Then there's a more speculative use-case that I have in mind: Generating realistic pictures of food.
While many restaurants have people who either make illustrations of their menu items and others have photographers, the big tail of restaurants do not have the means/expertise to do this. The idea we have from the company perspective is to make it as easy as snapping a few pictures of all your dishes and being able to turn all your menu (in this case) into a set of professional-looking pictures that accurately represent your menu.
Does this have any application for generating realistic scenes for robotics training?
One interesting use case would be if you are focusing on a robotics task that would require perception of realistic scenes.
No comments yet
- cost per image - latency per image
Hope you guys can add it somewhere!
Though we wanted to keep this technical blogpost free from marketing fluff, but maybe we over-did it.
However, sometimes it's hard to give an exact price per image, as it depends on resolution, number of steps, whether a LoRA is being used or not, etc.
We used two types of datasets for post-training. Supervised finetuning data and preference data used for RLHF stage. You can actually use less than < 1M samples to significantly boost the aesthetics. Quality matters A LOT. Quantity helps with generalisation and stability of the checkpoints though.
I noticed that the URL for this submission is wrong: I tried to submit the correct URL (https://www.krea.ai/blog/flux-krea-open-source-release) but, for some reason, the submission gets flagged as duplicated and then I can only find this item which has a URL to our old blog post.
In the mean time, I'll setup a server-side redirect from the old blog post to our new one, but it would be nice to fix the link and I don't think I can do it on my side.
I've fixed the link above now (and rolled back the clock on the submission, to make up for lost time) but you might want to fix this for future pages.
Thank you so much! I knew that HN software was advanced, but I didn’t know you guys used Canonical URLs like Google does. Smart and thanks for helping us with this slip!!!