If you are thinking about getting a Tuxedo, I suggest to get something else. I got one because they promised fwupd support, upstreamed drivers and maybe coreboot support. None of that is working even years afterwards. People from the kernel got so fed up with them, they considered blacklisting them [1]. That seemed like a wakeup call as they now at least started with upstreaming drivers.
If you want to change some settings oft the device, you need to use their terrible Electron application. It's so bad, volunteers created an alternative. Even they are getting tired of Tuxedo though [2]
The device is also not repairable at all. I had an issue with my screen and they gave me a quote of ~200€+ to repair it. I'm sure I could fix it myself for a lot less, but no parts are available and no instructions.
I hope they improve, but for now I'm disillusioned and would not buy it again.
The entire software stack of TUXEDO is tightly integrated, instead of working on a generic solution.
That sounds like the same situation with smartphones, which are nearly all ARM but every SoC or variation of one is different enough that the software is customised for each one.
If you want to change some settings oft the device, you need to use their terrible Electron application.
WTF. I thought Android being Java was already going too far, but they seem to have gone to a whole new level of insanity.
MarcusE1W · 19m ago
I think it's great that a company tries to support ARM Linux and brings what looks to me like a Linux first ARM Laptop.
pacifika · 16m ago
The first link does not mention blacklisting, just resolving a license compatibility issue.
pjmlp · 2h ago
Two of the reasons I eventually gave up on Desktop Linux, were virtualization getting good enough for just keep using Windows instead, back in the day with VMware Workstation and Virtual Box, nowadays with WSL (macOS is anyway UNIX enough for me to care otherwise).
And exactly the same experience with OEM vendors that were supposed to be Linux friendly, on my case the whole netbooks effort, where graphics, video decoding and wlan never worked as well on Windows, even though they were supposed to.
Dell XPS also had their issues for something that was supposed to be Canonical certified as running GNU/Linux properly.
It seems Android, ChromeOS and WebOS are the only ones where OEMs actually care to make it work properly, naturally the cloud and IoT vendors with their custom distros as well.
pimeys · 1h ago
I've been running Linux on my laptop and on my workstation since the 90's. Still using it as my main driver. Fedora Kinoite is my distro of choice, and Lenovo AMD Thinkpad T14s the laptop. Everything works flawless, and it's still pretty fast even though it's two years old already.
And I do not miss at all the Microsoft bullsh*t on tracking and advertising. Or the general sluggishness of Windows.
bornfreddy · 1h ago
Can attest - Thinkpads and Linux go great together. Used for 2 years, then was forced into Windows crap by corporate policy. No, WSL is not the same.
ThatMedicIsASpy · 1h ago
10+ years of T440s here. Most of the time a Fedora base. Both batteries at 50% health but the only thing that really is noticeable over the years is the missing hardware for todays video codecs.
sofixa · 2h ago
I ran a Dell XPS (not even the Canonical certified version) for a few years at a past job, and everything worked pretty well under Ubuntu. But it's always a matter of which exact hardware combination has mainstream support, and if the version you get doesn't e.g. have a shitty WiFi chip with bad support.
npodbielski · 1h ago
Yes. This is why I rather check Linux support od chips in a machine that I am planning to buy. Not that much work but you will not get unpleasant surprise when Wi-Fi do not work.
tom89999 · 1h ago
There are parts in the industry that are not meant for end users.
I service copiers and printers.
The fixing unit is not meant to be installed by a handyman, thats why you dont get to buy it.
You can cook yourself, it works with 230V....
Toner and drum unit are sold to customers.
simonjgreen · 1h ago
Respectfully, nothing about that applies to a laptop. This has been well proven over the years, that with good forethought and making parts available laptops can be highly repairable.
theodric · 1h ago
230VAC mains electrical fittings are openly sold in DIY shops in every country in the European Union without mass-cookings occurring as a result. This reeks of utterly unearned elitism.
TheJCDenton · 2h ago
Very informative, thank you. I was about to buy one of their products but this made me pause.
What you think would be the alternative in Europe ?
kfl · 1h ago
There is StarLab https://starlabs.systems although they don’t make ARM laptops if that’s what you are asking for.
mariusor · 1h ago
Basically the same things happened to my tuxedo also. With the addition of having to change batteries once a year, because it would drop to half it's factory charge, which wasn't really sufficient. I also gave up on them when they wanted so much money for a screen change (which died after about 3-4 years).
I've replaced it with the new framework 13 inch, which so far works well, but I've only had it for 4-5 months. ( well, but not perfect, because the new AMD AI CPU has issues with suspend on linux)
homebrewer · 44m ago
https://entroware.com from the UK gets mentioned here and there, but I think they don't do any software development at all, and only repackage OEM laptops.
pentamassiv · 2h ago
Unfortunately I don't know about a good alternative from Europe. I'd probably get a Framework if my device stops working. They seem to work hard at upstreaming things and use Linux standards. They also connected with the GNOME foundation, so there might be some collaboration in the future
timeon · 2h ago
> If you want to change some settings oft the device, you need to use their terrible Electron application.
That is unfortunate. I hoped they were more like System76.
juliangmp · 2h ago
Having to use their specific drivers is a bit annoying, but I honestly prefer that over drivers that dont work or dont exist at all.
I really hope they can bring their stuff upstream at one point, but I can't deny that using their laptops hasn't been good experiences.
mehdibl · 5m ago
This sound nice but I don't like the incompatibility with x86. Docker and many other things.
Yeah we need some trade off's. But for dev's & a lot of ops stuff I enjoy more x86 as it's de facto standard.
shenki0 · 3h ago
The Microsoft Surface Laptop 7 machines have no touchpad or touchscreen support. Listing them as "supported" requires a creative interpretation of the term.
thanatos519 · 16m ago
Works for me - those are the first things I turn off!
dvtkrlbs · 3h ago
They don't say everything works they say kernel works on those laptops.
LtWorf · 3h ago
I'd say "boots" would be more appropriate.
ekianjo · 2h ago
between booting and being able to everything except supporting non existent proprietary drivers for touchpad and screen from Microsoft is quite a difference.
tom89999 · 1h ago
I am fed up with the linux world. I run Ubuntu on a randomly selected Thinkpad, everything works, outta the box.
Why should i buy a new laptop because it holds another cpu doing the exact workload?
I cant code faster, cant talk faster with people and being productive 8hrs strait is just a lie.
Since almost 10years i read about pre-installed devices, but i dont see them anywhere.
Most companies dont have business linux apps and they wont be available, an armada of developers is busy bringing the light of the webcam functioning.
Why not specialize in something else like software the entire world runs on like SAP or whatever?
Its nice to spend a rainy day to compile your kernel...but the outcome?
irusensei · 1h ago
Nobody is telling you to buy a new laptop. Same goes for software. If it's not for you then don't use it. It's all about choice. And the entire Linux ecosystem is not a single entity to "specialize on SAP or whatever". I suspect a large portion of SAP systems already run Linux anyway.
homebrewer · 48m ago
Why not switch to Windows then? You'll of course have to chuck that perfectly finely working laptop when Windows 12 declares it obsolete, but such is life there.
resonious · 1h ago
> Why should i buy a new laptop because it holds another cpu doing the exact workload?
Long battery is pretty nice. And you don't have to be productive for 8 hours straight to feel the niceness.
teo_zero · 3h ago
> the current Linux Kernel 6.15 already supports many commercial laptops:
Lenovo Yoga 7x,
Lenovo ThinkPad T14s Gen 6,
Dell XPS 13,
Asus Vivobook S15,
HP Omnibook x14,
Microsoft Surface 13/15
Has anybody had any first-hand experience with Linux on such laptops?
E39M5S62 · 33m ago
I run Linux on a Thinkpad T13s, with the previous generation of Snapdragon CPUs. It runs great - quick, excellent battery life and very stable. Installation is a bit obnoxious, but nothing a modestly seasoned Linux veteran can't handle.
MarcusE1W · 24m ago
Completely agree with this. Ubuntu installs from the standard ARM installer on the X13s and openSuse Tumbleweed needs a litte help at the start but then runs great.
It looks like the Snapdragon X gets quite a lot of support now and end of the year or earlier next year it should be quite useable for most.
When the Snapdragon X laptops came out they where all over 1000$ and I completely understand that the number of Linux kernel enthusiasts to set things up would initially be limited.
Used prices come down now and that will also help.
intothemild · 2h ago
As someone with a Yoga 7x .. I'm still waiting. It's not fully supported.
The issue is drivers for peripherals and wifi.
I think the GPU is now supported.
It's been a long wait, mostly due to Qualcomm as I understand.
0x000xca0xfe · 34m ago
Do the Snapdragons implement TSO/Total Store Order like the Apple chips to allow Rosetta 2 like x86 compatibility?
jzellis · 1h ago
It's not precisely a laptop, but I have an augmented reality cyberdeck using XReal AR glasses running into a battery powered Raspberry Pi 5 that I built, which runs pretty well. I feel like the Pis have long been a canary in the coalmine for Linux and ARM (first ARMHF and now ARM64) support.
lll-o-lll · 1h ago
That sounds… awesome! I want one; links to a part list or anything?
OptionX · 1h ago
Any word on a compibily layer project for x86/64 like Rosetta? Seems like an important thing to have imo.
The article mentions an emulator, but it seemed to be for running games.
I also heard MS had something similar in their arm dev kit, but haven't looked much into it.
goosedragons · 1h ago
It's not just for games. FEX-EMU is used here alongside Wine/Proton to run games but it'll also run the x64 version of other things. There's other layers like Box64 that do the same thing. For Linux, a lot of the software traditionally found in repos already has an ARM version and it's not as necessary. On Windows on ARM sometimes the only way to get an ARM native version is to run the Linux version under WSL.
Windows on ARM has allowed running x86 code from launch with Windows 10 and x64 code since Windows 11.
ThatPlayer · 1h ago
There is Box86/box64/box32. A bit confusing but it's box86 for x86 > ARM32. Box64 for x86_64 > ARM64. And Box32 for x86 > ARM64.
I think they mention games because a lot of other software for Linux is generally open source. So a lot of times it's pretty easy to get an ARM build.
It also does a neat performance trick where it intercepts library calls and redirects them to native versions of the same library.
A little more context : in june 2024 at Computex, Tuxedo announced a possible christmas 2024 release [1]. A Qualcomm/Tuxedo collaboration was expected but did not materialize [2].
If you want to change some settings oft the device, you need to use their terrible Electron application. It's so bad, volunteers created an alternative. Even they are getting tired of Tuxedo though [2]
The device is also not repairable at all. I had an issue with my screen and they gave me a quote of ~200€+ to repair it. I'm sure I could fix it myself for a lot less, but no parts are available and no instructions.
I hope they improve, but for now I'm disillusioned and would not buy it again.
[1] https://www.phoronix.com/news/TUXEDO-Drivers-Taint-Patches
[2] https://aaronerhardt.github.io/blog/posts/tuxedo_rs_update/
The entire software stack of TUXEDO is tightly integrated, instead of working on a generic solution.
That sounds like the same situation with smartphones, which are nearly all ARM but every SoC or variation of one is different enough that the software is customised for each one.
If you want to change some settings oft the device, you need to use their terrible Electron application.
WTF. I thought Android being Java was already going too far, but they seem to have gone to a whole new level of insanity.
And exactly the same experience with OEM vendors that were supposed to be Linux friendly, on my case the whole netbooks effort, where graphics, video decoding and wlan never worked as well on Windows, even though they were supposed to.
Dell XPS also had their issues for something that was supposed to be Canonical certified as running GNU/Linux properly.
It seems Android, ChromeOS and WebOS are the only ones where OEMs actually care to make it work properly, naturally the cloud and IoT vendors with their custom distros as well.
And I do not miss at all the Microsoft bullsh*t on tracking and advertising. Or the general sluggishness of Windows.
What you think would be the alternative in Europe ?
I've replaced it with the new framework 13 inch, which so far works well, but I've only had it for 4-5 months. ( well, but not perfect, because the new AMD AI CPU has issues with suspend on linux)
That is unfortunate. I hoped they were more like System76.
Yeah we need some trade off's. But for dev's & a lot of ops stuff I enjoy more x86 as it's de facto standard.
Long battery is pretty nice. And you don't have to be productive for 8 hours straight to feel the niceness.
Has anybody had any first-hand experience with Linux on such laptops?
It looks like the Snapdragon X gets quite a lot of support now and end of the year or earlier next year it should be quite useable for most.
When the Snapdragon X laptops came out they where all over 1000$ and I completely understand that the number of Linux kernel enthusiasts to set things up would initially be limited.
Used prices come down now and that will also help.
The issue is drivers for peripherals and wifi.
I think the GPU is now supported.
It's been a long wait, mostly due to Qualcomm as I understand.
The article mentions an emulator, but it seemed to be for running games.
I also heard MS had something similar in their arm dev kit, but haven't looked much into it.
Windows on ARM has allowed running x86 code from launch with Windows 10 and x64 code since Windows 11.
I think they mention games because a lot of other software for Linux is generally open source. So a lot of times it's pretty easy to get an ARM build.
It also does a neat performance trick where it intercepts library calls and redirects them to native versions of the same library.
http://github.com/ptitSeb/box64
[1] https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/TUXEDO-on-ARM-is-coming.t... [2] https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/How-is-TUXEDOCOes-ARM-Not...
With applications.
And working webcam light and audio.
Is that MacOs? Can you run let say Revit there?