Unneeded materials from other depository libraries can now be transferred to the Internet Archive. Under 44 USC § 1912, depository libraries may dispose of outdated material, but must first offer to transfer to nearby depository institutions.
dylan604 · 9h ago
What is "outdated material" for a library? Isn't that precisely where you go to find "outdated material" is a library's archives?
chpatrick · 8h ago
Stuff like the printed tax code of 1965 or Borland Pascal 1992 manual. Once you have it digitized it's a waste of space for libraries to have a physical copy because basically no one needs it.
Libraries are constantly bringing in new materials and very few are capable of constantly increasing in size to match. I believe national libraries like the Library of Congress tend not to weed, but they do have to offload material to satellite locations and storage facilities.
lucb1e · 12h ago
I'm having trouble finding what this means. Does IA now have new obligations, or gets new information, or something else, or all of the above?
The submission says:
> These records account for “millions and millions of pages” that can take up entire floors of public libraries, Kahle said. San Diego’s public library gave up its federal depository status in 2020 because its government documents took up so much space and often went unused. [...] The GPO [...] has ramped up efforts to digitize the Federal Depository Library Program.
Does IA now have to store floors upon floors of paper copies of information, at least until it got digitized? Or are they now merely obliged to host the digital materials insofar as they already exist? That sounds like what they are doing already for the whole web, and also apparently since 2022 when they started "Democracy’s Library, a free online compendium of government research and publications", just that now they're legally obliged to do this or something?
What I find on doi.gov[1] is "The mission of Federal depository libraries is to provide local, free access to information from the Federal government" and nothing really further on what this concretely means. Sounds like just an obligation though?
What I find on gpo.gov[2] is "The Federal Depository Library Program [ensures] that the American public has access to Government information in depository libraries". Could mean anything. The program ensures that, but let's assume that means the designated libraries ensure that, so then do these libraries get extra info that the public doesn't get (but in order to disseminate them to the public)? Makes no sense either
The GPO page and the submission also say that "Members of Congress may designate up to two qualified libraries." Did they get picked and now it's IA's obligation, or did IA ask for this? What do they get out of it?
As I understand it, it’s voluntary and like the government document version of the Twitter firehose. Direct access to all published government documents as they are created.
"California Sen. Alex Padilla made the designation in a letter sent Thursday to the Government Publishing Office"
What does this mean. U.S. Senators can unilaterally designate federal depositories?
ssalka · 9h ago
It sounds like it was at the request of IA:
> "...in response to the enclosed letter I received from the Founder and Digital Librarian of the Internet Archive, Mr. Brewster Kahle, I am designating the Internet Archive as a federal depository library in California."
Which seems a lot more agreeable than unilateral designation (which is also how I initially read this).
Back in the days when things were sane my first thought reading this headline would have been: Nice, that‘s sounds official and important. Nowadays my first thought is: Wait, does this mean Trump can mess around with this?
stillwzcited · 12h ago
I’m still excited about it.
I hope that all of the world libraries join with the internet archive into a global cooperative.
I also hope there is a secret sub-basement in a different dimension that contains powerful artifacts, guarded by a master librarian.
A man can dream can’t he?
dsadfjasdf · 12h ago
yes trump is on the computer messing around with this
bigstrat2003 · 4h ago
That says more about you than it says about the times, I'm afraid. Your first thought should still be the former, not the latter.
bdhcuidbebe · 48m ago
Read the news, bro.
ocdtrekkie · 9h ago
My take on this is that in desperation to become a real library despite Kahle's radical hatred of content creators, Kahle will end up dragging the legislative narrative in a direction that takes down real libraries with him. He will almost certainly broadcast his status as a federal depository library as part of his defenses in his numerous lawsuits.
One selfish man unwilling to recognize he is doing more harm than good.
bahmboo · 7h ago
"radical hatred of content creators" is a very harsh and specific allegation. I wasn't aware that Kahle was considered such a bad actor. I did some googling and wikipedia-ing and can't see much that supports that claim. I am very open minded to the nuances of IP rights vs information-wants-to-be-free so I'd love to hear more details about your position particularly as it relates to the federal depository designation.
badlibrarian · 3h ago
Making every book on the site available for unlimited download, not just rare things but contemporary best sellers, did huge reputational damage. Following it up by claiming he was saving scratchy old 78 RPM records, but in the process also making LPs from Paul McCartney and Jimi Hendrix available, continued the trend.
Tweeting out promotional links to the pages with those materials, while asking for donations on the top of the page? Well, I don't know if that's contempt for artists or just lack of common sense. But when they ask you to take down the material and you refuse...
The depository thing is a distraction. And they do have a habit of sensationalizing things in blog posts. So I understand where that commenter is coming from. Internet Archive is under attack from many sides but much of it is self-inflicted.
mdp2021 · 35m ago
Libraries make «contemporary best sellers» and «LPs from Paul McCartney and Jimi Hendrix» freely available. You call it «reputational damage», others may call it "advancing demands over rights", "stirring a stagnating reality in view of effective progress" (with reference to dematerialization), "pushing a debate" (about where we want to go societally".
It is unwise to push these latter points with the outmost care without having awakened the masses and clarified your stances to decisors - it is unwise to be "right" in front of the immature. But the reputation damage remains about wisdom, not about pride.
toomuchtodo · 8h ago
They were already recognized by the state of California as a library, and have received federal funds for infrastructure under that designation. They’ve also been accepted into consortiums made up of other libraries in the US. Whether you believe they’re a library is immaterial.
badlibrarian · 8h ago
A federal Judge also ruled that "IA does not perform the traditional functions of a library."
Brewster has a friend in a state senator and he's trying to do what he can to preserve his section 108 privileges. He's removed over a million items in the past year after being repeatedly sued for copyright infringement, and leaked millions of private communications with patrons including passports and driver licenses. That's the undercurrent here.
Egos aside, the goal isn't to be a library: it's providing access to knowledge. But when your site is on the blocklist at public library terminals because you keep getting flagged for copyright violations and child pornography, maybe you're not on the path.
mdp2021 · 32m ago
Unclear expression, since the goal of a library is «providing access to knowledge». Maybe the point is about the future of those services.
Libraries are constantly bringing in new materials and very few are capable of constantly increasing in size to match. I believe national libraries like the Library of Congress tend not to weed, but they do have to offload material to satellite locations and storage facilities.
The submission says:
> These records account for “millions and millions of pages” that can take up entire floors of public libraries, Kahle said. San Diego’s public library gave up its federal depository status in 2020 because its government documents took up so much space and often went unused. [...] The GPO [...] has ramped up efforts to digitize the Federal Depository Library Program.
Does IA now have to store floors upon floors of paper copies of information, at least until it got digitized? Or are they now merely obliged to host the digital materials insofar as they already exist? That sounds like what they are doing already for the whole web, and also apparently since 2022 when they started "Democracy’s Library, a free online compendium of government research and publications", just that now they're legally obliged to do this or something?
What I find on doi.gov[1] is "The mission of Federal depository libraries is to provide local, free access to information from the Federal government" and nothing really further on what this concretely means. Sounds like just an obligation though?
What I find on gpo.gov[2] is "The Federal Depository Library Program [ensures] that the American public has access to Government information in depository libraries". Could mean anything. The program ensures that, but let's assume that means the designated libraries ensure that, so then do these libraries get extra info that the public doesn't get (but in order to disseminate them to the public)? Makes no sense either
The GPO page and the submission also say that "Members of Congress may designate up to two qualified libraries." Did they get picked and now it's IA's obligation, or did IA ask for this? What do they get out of it?
[1] https://www.doi.gov/library/collections/federal-documents
[2] https://www.gpo.gov/how-to-work-with-us/agency/services-for-...
What does this mean. U.S. Senators can unilaterally designate federal depositories?
> "...in response to the enclosed letter I received from the Founder and Digital Librarian of the Internet Archive, Mr. Brewster Kahle, I am designating the Internet Archive as a federal depository library in California."
Which seems a lot more agreeable than unilateral designation (which is also how I initially read this).
I hope that all of the world libraries join with the internet archive into a global cooperative.
I also hope there is a secret sub-basement in a different dimension that contains powerful artifacts, guarded by a master librarian.
A man can dream can’t he?
One selfish man unwilling to recognize he is doing more harm than good.
Tweeting out promotional links to the pages with those materials, while asking for donations on the top of the page? Well, I don't know if that's contempt for artists or just lack of common sense. But when they ask you to take down the material and you refuse...
The depository thing is a distraction. And they do have a habit of sensationalizing things in blog posts. So I understand where that commenter is coming from. Internet Archive is under attack from many sides but much of it is self-inflicted.
It is unwise to push these latter points with the outmost care without having awakened the masses and clarified your stances to decisors - it is unwise to be "right" in front of the immature. But the reputation damage remains about wisdom, not about pride.
https://publishers.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/2024.09.04...
Brewster has a friend in a state senator and he's trying to do what he can to preserve his section 108 privileges. He's removed over a million items in the past year after being repeatedly sued for copyright infringement, and leaked millions of private communications with patrons including passports and driver licenses. That's the undercurrent here.
Egos aside, the goal isn't to be a library: it's providing access to knowledge. But when your site is on the blocklist at public library terminals because you keep getting flagged for copyright violations and child pornography, maybe you're not on the path.