I hope it won't take more than 10 years for the EU to actually force them to let us publish our own stuff without paying them first.
Longhanks · 2h ago
Apple has no intent of ever supporting such a scenario in a way that would satisfy you. Why not switch to another manufacturer that sells what you want?
sussmannbaka · 2h ago
There is no other manufacturer that sells what I want. The alternative is worse (Google) or incompatible with the reality of my daily life (my banks app won't work on it).
On the desktop side of things it's getting better, the Framework desktop is interesting, but there's still no REAL alternative yet. Maybe in 5 years.
ktallett · 1h ago
Fairphone and a Framework is just fine. What exactly do you do that suggests there is no alternative? I can see absolutely nothing Apple does that no other laptop can.
bayindirh · 1h ago
> I can see absolutely nothing Apple does that no other laptop can.
Let me check the list.
- High DPI screen with color calibration and automatic white balancing, working 99% of the time. Ensuring your eyes always sees the color it expects without fatigue. Plus, HDR.
- Most decent external screens you plug will also have their correct color profile installed on the OS level, so they'll not show funny colors.
- 15+ hour battery life on an ordinary laptop if you don't abuse it. Even my M1 can handle me for a couple of days with light usage.
- Good quality speakers, decent stereo separation without being too tinny or boomy.
- Great quality cameras and microphones for its size.
- Great, backlight illuminated keyboard, with no flex.
- A realistic 8-10 year usage life without babying it.
- A full metal body, and keeping it light for that amount of metal.
- Built-in biometrics which runs on a proper secure enclave, without any "touch here, write absurdly long pasword you don't know there" shenanigans of Windows.
- A POSIX compliant, BSD descendant OS which can interoperate with Linux way better than Windows.
- A proper backup system which backs up whole OS and system state to an external drive, better than old "Windows 7 backup" and miles better than new "OneDrive only Windows Backup".
- Better radios, backend and port bandwidth than its class-equivalent machines. Essentially a loaded MacBook Pro is equivalent to a Z-Workstation Mobile from HP.
...and these are standard in almost every MacBook. I don't go through hoops to beg local distributors to build the machine I like via their configuration wizard, and wait them to import it if they feel like it, and pay 3x of its sticker price because it's a one off import tucked inside a bigger shipment. Even CTO devices by Apple are shipped in a week and comes to my door in another 1-2. I pay the sticker price for the device I want.
Do you need more?
Sent from my Linux desktop system.
ktallett · 1h ago
It has some benefits, the battery life (you aren't getting 15 hours from it doing a normal workload), keyboard, cameras, are pretty similar to many other laptops. Linux exists so a pale imitation isn't needed, its not light, and there are plenty of as good if not better back up options.
What about the overall quality of the software and hardware being rather poor? No repair-ability, a limited OS now, low quality glass covering the screens, lack of long term support for many laptops now?
PaulRobinson · 43m ago
You are 100% getting 15 hours from a normal workload. The keyboard is better than any other laptop keyboard. The camera is better than any other laptop integrated webcam.
The quality of the software is same or better as Linux (because getting all your Linux desktop and command line software running is a brew install away).
The hardware is class leading. The screens are best in class. The laptops will last you 8-10 years and then you can install a Linux on them and keep them going for another 5.
Yes, repairability is poor, but improving.
I get why people make other choices, but the idea that Apple hardware is poor quality and the software is terrible just isn't the way to do it. Argue about purity of freedom, argue about cost (Apple hardware is expensive, because it's superb), argue about crappy dev account policies like the thread is here to support.
But, y'know, don't just make up stuff anybody who uses this stuff daily knows is just made up...
piva00 · 48m ago
Also, macOS's audio stack is unmatched, Windows and Linux are an absolute mess for anything audio-related. It's doable on those OSes but very far from a pleasant experience.
fauigerzigerk · 2h ago
For many developers of mobile apps there is no switching and there is no choice. Many apps are only viable if they are available on both platforms.
pjc50 · 24m ago
I can't make my customers switch phone.
socalgal2 · 1h ago
You completely missed the point of the post. It isn't about what phone they own. It's about what phone all the users own.
which is the same for the EU's Digital Markets Act. It's not the Smartphone Owner's Act. It's a law for letting business reach customers without having Apple in the middle. Apple (nor Google) can be allowed to have control over such a large market of customers betwen them and nearly every business.
FirmwareBurner · 2h ago
Because Apple are one of the gatekeepers now, that's why they're getting regulated everywhere. It's not like how you can move from a Ford to a Honda, a lot of people have their entire digital lives with notes, chats, photos, videos and thousands of dollars of purchases tied to Apple's account, plus the network effect where the whole family has iPhone because of iMessage. Moving to another phone brands, they'd loose all that.
That's Apple's moat and they're fighting to the death for it because they don't have any other cash cow to milk.
Non Apple user btw.
msgodel · 2h ago
This attitude is why there's very little useful software for the iPhone compared to something like Linux.
Instead all you have is spamy garbage full of ads and addictive social media cybernetics.
bn-l · 4h ago
If you're logging in from a country that historically has had a lot of fraud coming from it, this might be the reason why.
When travelling in Hungary my AWS account was banned the moment I tried to log in. I got basically no reason. I was able to call support but the guy very polite fobbed me off and I got the idea that they weren't even able to disclose the reason why they banned me.
throwaway277432 · 3h ago
Don't ever travel, never change anything related to billing except to update your cards before they expire. Don't change your name, email adresses or lose access to your phone number, and as we know now also don't ask support.
Then don't use any uncommon tools, e.g. ones associated with 'hacking', or store any copyrighted files in their cloud.
If there's any issue or error with logins etc., don't retry too quickly or too often or that in itself will be suspicious. Wait a day between requests, and double-check everything before retrying. Do not retry from a different IP or worse a VPN, or that will also be suspicious.
That should just about cover the bases for most providers.
Yes, it's insane and obviously you still need a backup of all your stuff just in case.
Y-bar · 2h ago
> Don't change your name, email adresses or lose access to your phone number, and as we know now also don't ask support.
This reads like some list of instructions from the Brazil film.
intothemild · 20m ago
Similar situation to me. I got my Amazon account banned because I dared to use different Amazon websites with the same login. So amazon.de, .co.uk, .com ... I live in Norway where we don't have an official Amazon country..
Apparently I got flagged as suspicious, and every time I jump through the hoops to prove who I am, I get rejected.
I just stopped buying from Amazon.
Lost all my books, movies, tv shows. Everything. No recourse.
Razengan · 3h ago
imgur also banned logins and uploads from Ukraine, Vietnam etc. with no reason given, just a dirty 502 return code.
while flaunting "Stand with Ukraine!" and all that virtue signaling.
miyuru · 3m ago
I guess that why they block IPv6 address when forced.
user_7832 · 24m ago
India too is on this list. Often I get an error claiming capacity overload, and it doesn’t work unless you switch to a vpn.
hofrogs · 2h ago
There was a time (a few weeks/months, I think?) when I've been getting that "imgur is over capacity, try again later" every time I tried to open an image posted there. First few times I wondered if imgur is really down, but haven't seen anyone in related comment sections complain, eventually I figured out that they are just lying to you with a fake error message if they don't like your IP for whatever reason, and the situation made me really angry (just return a 403 and say that the address is banned, damn it! It helps nobody to give a wrong error message and googling it just shows that many people have the same problem, scrapers will not be fooled by that anyway). After a while, I stopped getting those errors.
Geoblock is kids game. Try birthblock. Western megacorps are asking Ukrainians for the passport data, to prove they are from Ukraine and then block them anyway, if they were born in the currently russian occupied regions. And they don't accept any proof of living outside of those regions. This is the level of sewing a yellow star on your work robe, but no one if talking about it or shaming the corporations.
feelamee · 34m ago
can you explain what is the good reason here?
Im constantly meet this problem and interested why
bzzzt · 6m ago
Looking at service logs at my company show a serious amount of hacking attempts by bots originating from Russian and Chinese IP addresses. Mostly harmless on an updated server not running an ancient Wordpress but attempts nonetheless.
For companies that don't serve customers there it's very common to just block those network ranges. Of course, it's no real solution, but some people are convinced every security layer contributes to 'defense in depth'.
It's a privilege to even have your Apple device working. If Apple decides it won't work, you're at their mercy.
Razengan · 3h ago
Same goes for Windows or Android really.
aniforprez · 3h ago
If my windows device fails, I'm not going to Microsoft. I either fix the offending part of my desktop or laptop, or reinstall the OS or move to a different OS. If something is wrong with my android phone, I'm not going to Google since I don't own a Pixel and will go to the manufacturer of the phone. If it's a purely software issue, there are steps I can actually take to flash a different ROM though admittedly it's not an easy process.
Here Apple not only owns the device but also the software it's running as well as distribution of apps for this device except for CLI tools distributed by brew or other package managers. At least with a Mac I can install and run applications over the Internet. With an iPhone that's not at all possible (not sure about the status of side loading with the EU ruling and all)
RedCardRef · 3h ago
Not really the case for Android, you skip the google account setup or the amazon account setup if you are using a fire tablet and continue using the device by sideloading whatever APKs you want. Most of the times the APKs that depend on Google Play Services will continue to work fine.
I skipped the amazon account registration and directly sideloaded the Google Play apps on my fire tablet.
Even for Google TVs you can skip the setup and use the TV as is. You can sideload APKs on this as well.
AFAIK, the account setup/login circumvention is not possible on fire tv sticks/google chromecasts.
You can take a very old android device factory reset it and continue using at as an offline only device without the blessings of google or amazon. (Except FRP devices)
But that is not the case with Apple, you need to connect it atleast once to the internet to activate the device.
ale42 · 3h ago
> Not really the case for Android, you skip the google account setup
Is this possible even if the account is locked to the device (FRP), which is often the case?
swiftcoder · 1h ago
(from unfortunate experience) no. You have to have freed your android phone from the shackles before your account ceases to work
lawn · 2h ago
How many alternative operating systems work well on Apple devices?
Android phones usually have multiple options (Lineage, Calyx, eos, Graphene, depending on your particular phone) and you can always replace Windows with Linux.
throwawaysoxjje · 2h ago
How well do those alternatives play with your banking app?
Semaphor · 26m ago
Very well, only the shittiest banking apps don’t work on them. Root is a bit more problematic, but would also be reason enough for me to change banks, as they seem to care more about theater than security.
Also, having your banking app on your phone isn't the most desirable thing in reality, if you're security-minded.
junon · 1h ago
My bank requires it, for better or for worse.
Any bank transfers are MFAd via the app, for example. It's the only bank that allows non-citizens in Germany that has English correspondence and wouldn't have taken months in Bureaucracy to open an account when I first moved.
zettabomb · 1h ago
Can I ask what bank that is? I'm looking at getting a German bank account, and I'm still much more comfortable with English.
junon · 53m ago
N26 bank
octo888 · 1h ago
So you chose an app-only 'bank' such as Revolut?
What did people do before such apps?
nromiun · 2h ago
Very well for my banking apps. With root and developers options enabled on my phone as well. If your banking apps does not work complain to your bank.
lawn · 43m ago
I've used CalyxOS and GrapheneOS and I haven't had any issues with the Swedish banks.
jojobas · 2h ago
Why would you want a banking app? If your bank won't work over browser and insists on installing some crap on your device, shop for another bank.
asimovDev · 2h ago
In Finland, for example, you have to authenticate online through your banking application for any online government service or things like mobile plan. This 2FA is basically mandatory and the alternative is using keys printed on a paper that you have to pay for cause every key is one time use only and I am not sure they will continue that service for long.
It’s probably similar in Sweden and other neighbouring countries
Mashimo · 1h ago
I would not be able to log into _any_ local banking website without the government 2fa app. Not sure what the alternative is. Maybe they can give you an old school hardware device.
Or read the digital letters from government / municipalities.
Also I like my banking app.
exe34 · 2h ago
^This. For me, it's not my phone that's defective, it's the app. My phone runs my other ~10 apps that provide for my digital life perfectly fine, with the level of security I'm comfortable with (root access, firewall to block anything in/out that I don't specifically allow). If this is a problem for your app, your app is broken. I'll use something else.
Someone · 2h ago
No detailed reason given. Also no info from the developer on what they might have done to trigger this, so basically, except for “Apple terminated this account”, we don’t know what happened.
All we can complain about is that Apple’s rejection letters never go into detail. I’m afraid that’s what you get when the legal department of a large corp is involved.
paintbox · 5m ago
There is no valid reason not to disclose that information to the user inside the rejection letter.
It's not as much a failure of Apple's legal department as it's a failure of the legal system where this is a-ok.
Doesn't matter what the app is - maybe user tried to publish an illegal app, but that should be clearly communicated. It's the civilized way.
socalgal2 · 1h ago
Irrelvant. Apple shouldn't have that kind of control.
PaulRobinson · 40m ago
They shouldn't be able to set terms of how their services should be used?
I think we can all agree this is a poor response and they should give some idea on what the root problem is and how to address it, but to say they just shouldn't ever have conditions at all is absurd.
qwertox · 2h ago
"not [...] interfere with [...] Ad-Hoc distribution, or the Program [...]"
Obviously his email was an interference with the "Program" (Apple Developer Program). It probably had consumed an Apple employee's time, or that of an AI.
Imagine the EU or any government being in the position of saying to Apple: "You did not adhere to our terms xyz, therefore we terminate our granted permission for you to operate in this region. Please remove all tools you use to operate in this region and release the premises for other companies to use them, immediately", without explaining why. Because this is what Apple is doing.
zimpenfish · 1h ago
> Imagine the EU or any government being in the position of saying to Apple: "You did not adhere to our terms xyz, therefore we terminate our granted permission for you to operate in this region.
Isn't that literally what the EU is doing with the DMA?
pjc50 · 21m ago
Yes, but you cut off the critical words "without explaining why". And such decisions are subject to court review.
Really what people want is "judicial review for TOS bans", which I can see huge benefits to but it's also very expensive.
justinclift · 19m ago
No, the EU have given them warnings with detailed explanation about what needs to change, and substantial timeframes to get the changes done.
qwertox · 1h ago
Certainly not.
cjs_ac · 1h ago
I remember an /r/AskReddit thread years ago about 'What's your favourite free smartphone app?' (or something along those lines) and the comment that most stuck in my mind was from an iPhone user lamenting how many interesting and novel things were only available on Android, because publishing for iOS was simply too hard.
This isn't to say that the Google Play Store is intrinsically better than Apple's App Store; Google is equally guilty of this what's the cheapest thing we can pass off as due diligence? nonsense. However, it is a good reminder that this sort of thing has been going on for a long time, and is only getting worse.
I think the idea of the smartphone as a general-purpose computing machine is dead, and that instead phones are now the designated Muggle-safe Internet consumption platform. Apart from media streaming, ordinary people aren't using computing machinery for anything they weren't using it for twenty years ago, so I think they won't feel any loss from the stagnation of mobile apps.
The lessons for HN readers are: a) app stores exist within their platform's moat; and b) don't build your business inside someone else's moat.
yreg · 2h ago
Two days ago there were two redditors who had the same happen to them - banned for allegedly breaching 3.2(f). One from Australia the other from NZ.
“You will not, directly or indirectly, commit any act intended to interfere with the Apple Software or Services, the intent of this Agreement, or Apple’s business practices including, but not limited to, taking actions that may hinder the performance or intended use of the App Store, B2B Program, or the Program.”
TheHeasman · 3h ago
The joys of being at a platform's mercy.
rob74 · 2h ago
You live by the Apple, you die by the Apple...
blitzar · 2h ago
You get rich by the Apple, you get poor by the Apple...
thih9 · 1h ago
You pay for the dev account, you beg to keep the dev account…
outcoldman · 2h ago
Something is happening right now at Apple, as I have seen another post on reddit about that (could not find it), where people complained about their Dev Accounts were banned as well, when they even did not have any apps, just used dev accounts to notarize apps for themselves.
It does suck, A LOT
thih9 · 2h ago
While notarization as method of increasing security is a pain, I guess we need more details. For all we know, it is just as likely that some bad actor was prevented from distributing notarized apps. Perhaps even the developer was unaware that their machine has been compromised.
seydor · 2h ago
Trillion dollar companies outsourcing their developer support line to hacker news.
__warlord__ · 4h ago
And yet, I’m still waiting for them to approve my developer account, It’s been two months now. they seriously need to be broken up and allow other app stores and ways to developer for their hardware.
hansvm · 4h ago
I assume you had to pay up-front 2 months ago?
hyllos · 4h ago
The letter says that you violated section 3.2(f) of the ADP agreement. [corrected the section no.]
runjake · 4h ago
3.2f.
“You will not, directly or indirectly, commit any act intended to interfere with any of the Apple Software or Services“
fzimmermann89 · 3h ago
Contacting support obviously interfered with Apple services. Duh.
creatonez · 2h ago
I wonder if they have a problem with the core functionality of the program. Maybe they do not want any Windows Recall clones popping up before they can offer their own solution, so they've decided to stamp down on this (screen recording timelapse software) because it is vaguely in the same category.
deanc · 1h ago
Then ban the app. Not the account.
k1t · 4h ago
2.3 vs 3.2?
bowsamic · 2h ago
Apple really are the poster child for "Stallman was right". When things are broken with their software you just have to hope that an update or relogging will magically fix things. You aren't even allowed to write your own software for the hardware you own without their permission. Terrible
IceDane · 13m ago
Tangentially related:
I bought a used MacBook air from my colleague to give to my girlfriend. It's the first apple device I've owned for more than a decade.
I was expecting smooth sailing. From afar it's supposed to be so well integrated and smooth.
What we experienced was the opposite. Even just the experience in macOS feels extremely janky. Lots of different UI paradigms, lack of feedback when logging into your apple account when it doesn't work in some cases.
Anyway, we updated everything and my gf even purchased something almost immediately - a nearly 100 dollar license for software from the app store.
She puts the laptop away for a couple of days and then we want to use it in the kitchen.. and we are told there's an issue with the account. We end up logging in online where we are finally told that its been blocked and we need to verify it. Whatever, I thought, it's probably just some filter. We verify with phone number and are told we'll need to wait a couple of days.
The result is that her apple id is just banned, and there is no recourse. No one can tell us anything at all except that we broke the terms of service. They can't even refund our purchase because they literally can't find our account in their system. We're literally instructed to do a charge back.
So we end up using another apple id that my girlfriend had, which she had forgotten about since it was only used for Apple tv... And it doesn't work. We are unable to login with it, and when we go online, we enter some sort of verification flow.. which just breaks. The final step is a website with a button which literally doesn't do anything when you press it. Except it does - it sends a request and I can see it return a 500.
We end up having to talk to support on the phone and they tell us this is all intentional, and he just needs to flip a switch in his system and we're good to go.
Literally the most asinine experience I've ever had with any tech company. Also the last time I'm buying anything Apple.
It sounds like the developer is just trying to notarize their macOS app, so it's not even an App Store rejection.
ethan_smith · 2h ago
That repo is a valuable collection of documented App Store rejections with resolution paths - helpful for developers to navigate similar situations or preemptively avoid common pitfalls.
Animats · 3h ago
Another reason to not support MacOS targets. Dealing with Apple is just too much of a hassle.
Let me check the list.
- High DPI screen with color calibration and automatic white balancing, working 99% of the time. Ensuring your eyes always sees the color it expects without fatigue. Plus, HDR.
- Most decent external screens you plug will also have their correct color profile installed on the OS level, so they'll not show funny colors.
- 15+ hour battery life on an ordinary laptop if you don't abuse it. Even my M1 can handle me for a couple of days with light usage.
- Good quality speakers, decent stereo separation without being too tinny or boomy.
- Great quality cameras and microphones for its size.
- Great, backlight illuminated keyboard, with no flex.
- A realistic 8-10 year usage life without babying it.
- A full metal body, and keeping it light for that amount of metal.
- Built-in biometrics which runs on a proper secure enclave, without any "touch here, write absurdly long pasword you don't know there" shenanigans of Windows.
- A POSIX compliant, BSD descendant OS which can interoperate with Linux way better than Windows.
- A proper backup system which backs up whole OS and system state to an external drive, better than old "Windows 7 backup" and miles better than new "OneDrive only Windows Backup".
- Better radios, backend and port bandwidth than its class-equivalent machines. Essentially a loaded MacBook Pro is equivalent to a Z-Workstation Mobile from HP.
...and these are standard in almost every MacBook. I don't go through hoops to beg local distributors to build the machine I like via their configuration wizard, and wait them to import it if they feel like it, and pay 3x of its sticker price because it's a one off import tucked inside a bigger shipment. Even CTO devices by Apple are shipped in a week and comes to my door in another 1-2. I pay the sticker price for the device I want.
Do you need more?
Sent from my Linux desktop system.
What about the overall quality of the software and hardware being rather poor? No repair-ability, a limited OS now, low quality glass covering the screens, lack of long term support for many laptops now?
The quality of the software is same or better as Linux (because getting all your Linux desktop and command line software running is a brew install away).
The hardware is class leading. The screens are best in class. The laptops will last you 8-10 years and then you can install a Linux on them and keep them going for another 5.
Yes, repairability is poor, but improving.
I get why people make other choices, but the idea that Apple hardware is poor quality and the software is terrible just isn't the way to do it. Argue about purity of freedom, argue about cost (Apple hardware is expensive, because it's superb), argue about crappy dev account policies like the thread is here to support.
But, y'know, don't just make up stuff anybody who uses this stuff daily knows is just made up...
which is the same for the EU's Digital Markets Act. It's not the Smartphone Owner's Act. It's a law for letting business reach customers without having Apple in the middle. Apple (nor Google) can be allowed to have control over such a large market of customers betwen them and nearly every business.
That's Apple's moat and they're fighting to the death for it because they don't have any other cash cow to milk.
Non Apple user btw.
Instead all you have is spamy garbage full of ads and addictive social media cybernetics.
When travelling in Hungary my AWS account was banned the moment I tried to log in. I got basically no reason. I was able to call support but the guy very polite fobbed me off and I got the idea that they weren't even able to disclose the reason why they banned me.
Then don't use any uncommon tools, e.g. ones associated with 'hacking', or store any copyrighted files in their cloud.
If there's any issue or error with logins etc., don't retry too quickly or too often or that in itself will be suspicious. Wait a day between requests, and double-check everything before retrying. Do not retry from a different IP or worse a VPN, or that will also be suspicious.
That should just about cover the bases for most providers.
Yes, it's insane and obviously you still need a backup of all your stuff just in case.
This reads like some list of instructions from the Brazil film.
Apparently I got flagged as suspicious, and every time I jump through the hoops to prove who I am, I get rejected.
I just stopped buying from Amazon.
Lost all my books, movies, tv shows. Everything. No recourse.
https://old.reddit.com/r/imguralternatives/comments/1kr11nw/...
while flaunting "Stand with Ukraine!" and all that virtue signaling.
For companies that don't serve customers there it's very common to just block those network ranges. Of course, it's no real solution, but some people are convinced every security layer contributes to 'defense in depth'.
Here Apple not only owns the device but also the software it's running as well as distribution of apps for this device except for CLI tools distributed by brew or other package managers. At least with a Mac I can install and run applications over the Internet. With an iPhone that's not at all possible (not sure about the status of side loading with the EU ruling and all)
I skipped the amazon account registration and directly sideloaded the Google Play apps on my fire tablet.
Even for Google TVs you can skip the setup and use the TV as is. You can sideload APKs on this as well.
AFAIK, the account setup/login circumvention is not possible on fire tv sticks/google chromecasts.
You can take a very old android device factory reset it and continue using at as an offline only device without the blessings of google or amazon. (Except FRP devices)
But that is not the case with Apple, you need to connect it atleast once to the internet to activate the device.
Is this possible even if the account is locked to the device (FRP), which is often the case?
Android phones usually have multiple options (Lineage, Calyx, eos, Graphene, depending on your particular phone) and you can always replace Windows with Linux.
Also, having your banking app on your phone isn't the most desirable thing in reality, if you're security-minded.
Any bank transfers are MFAd via the app, for example. It's the only bank that allows non-citizens in Germany that has English correspondence and wouldn't have taken months in Bureaucracy to open an account when I first moved.
What did people do before such apps?
It’s probably similar in Sweden and other neighbouring countries
Or read the digital letters from government / municipalities.
Also I like my banking app.
All we can complain about is that Apple’s rejection letters never go into detail. I’m afraid that’s what you get when the legal department of a large corp is involved.
It's not as much a failure of Apple's legal department as it's a failure of the legal system where this is a-ok.
Doesn't matter what the app is - maybe user tried to publish an illegal app, but that should be clearly communicated. It's the civilized way.
I think we can all agree this is a poor response and they should give some idea on what the root problem is and how to address it, but to say they just shouldn't ever have conditions at all is absurd.
Obviously his email was an interference with the "Program" (Apple Developer Program). It probably had consumed an Apple employee's time, or that of an AI.
Imagine the EU or any government being in the position of saying to Apple: "You did not adhere to our terms xyz, therefore we terminate our granted permission for you to operate in this region. Please remove all tools you use to operate in this region and release the premises for other companies to use them, immediately", without explaining why. Because this is what Apple is doing.
Isn't that literally what the EU is doing with the DMA?
Really what people want is "judicial review for TOS bans", which I can see huge benefits to but it's also very expensive.
This isn't to say that the Google Play Store is intrinsically better than Apple's App Store; Google is equally guilty of this what's the cheapest thing we can pass off as due diligence? nonsense. However, it is a good reminder that this sort of thing has been going on for a long time, and is only getting worse.
I think the idea of the smartphone as a general-purpose computing machine is dead, and that instead phones are now the designated Muggle-safe Internet consumption platform. Apart from media streaming, ordinary people aren't using computing machinery for anything they weren't using it for twenty years ago, so I think they won't feel any loss from the stagnation of mobile apps.
The lessons for HN readers are: a) app stores exist within their platform's moat; and b) don't build your business inside someone else's moat.
https://old.reddit.com/r/iOSProgramming/s/oUVIuVWeJe
Hearing tales like these makes me super nervous. I don't think there's anything I can do to protect my app/account.
This is not a new thing though, apple has been doing this for years, here is a similar report from 8 years ago: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/44105523/apple-rejected-...
Also, according to that link, section 3.2f is:
“You will not, directly or indirectly, commit any act intended to interfere with the Apple Software or Services, the intent of this Agreement, or Apple’s business practices including, but not limited to, taking actions that may hinder the performance or intended use of the App Store, B2B Program, or the Program.”
It does suck, A LOT
“You will not, directly or indirectly, commit any act intended to interfere with any of the Apple Software or Services“
I bought a used MacBook air from my colleague to give to my girlfriend. It's the first apple device I've owned for more than a decade.
I was expecting smooth sailing. From afar it's supposed to be so well integrated and smooth.
What we experienced was the opposite. Even just the experience in macOS feels extremely janky. Lots of different UI paradigms, lack of feedback when logging into your apple account when it doesn't work in some cases.
Anyway, we updated everything and my gf even purchased something almost immediately - a nearly 100 dollar license for software from the app store.
She puts the laptop away for a couple of days and then we want to use it in the kitchen.. and we are told there's an issue with the account. We end up logging in online where we are finally told that its been blocked and we need to verify it. Whatever, I thought, it's probably just some filter. We verify with phone number and are told we'll need to wait a couple of days.
The result is that her apple id is just banned, and there is no recourse. No one can tell us anything at all except that we broke the terms of service. They can't even refund our purchase because they literally can't find our account in their system. We're literally instructed to do a charge back.
So we end up using another apple id that my girlfriend had, which she had forgotten about since it was only used for Apple tv... And it doesn't work. We are unable to login with it, and when we go online, we enter some sort of verification flow.. which just breaks. The final step is a website with a button which literally doesn't do anything when you press it. Except it does - it sends a request and I can see it return a 500.
We end up having to talk to support on the phone and they tell us this is all intentional, and he just needs to flip a switch in his system and we're good to go.
Literally the most asinine experience I've ever had with any tech company. Also the last time I'm buying anything Apple.