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Commodore 64 Ultimate
129 peterkelly 79 7/12/2025, 9:21:22 AM commodore.net ↗
But I don't want that Commodore 64 today.
I want the Commodore 64 of 2025. A machine where middle schoolers can learn the basics of programming while having fun with graphics and sound. Maybe even have a simple 2D gaming engine built-in. I don't know. I want the spirit of the Commodore 64, not the actual machine itself.
* Capture "the spirit" of an all-in-one, simple computer that boots to an accessible language.
* Recreate an actual 80s computer via software, FPGA emulation or compatible CPU. A major sub-group is those wanting support for physical 80s media which can include disks, cartridges and even tape.
Within these major groups are a variety of different requirements. A big one is whether the machine must support modern displays (HDMI) or authentic retro displays (CRTs). If you don't have a CRT then HDMI is a requirement, however inserting what was originally low-res analog composite video into a hi-res digital container involves some significant trade-offs and design complexity. It's not trivial or cheap to do well with high-quality and high-compatibility. Then there are those who split on whether modern connectivity and conveniences like Wifi, Ethernet and SD card media are mandatory, nice-to-haves or definite should-not-haves. Of course, those conveniences aren't much use without sufficient CPU power and resolution to support a modern browser and OS capable of reading modern media which involve more cost and potential compatibility issues.
The great thing is that those who are retro-interested now have a lot of good options ranging from OG hardware to software emulation, FPGA systems and all-new designs. My advice is to be clear on what experience you really want, the specific traits you care about and the various trade-offs and challenges those entail before diving in.
I think the challenge is computers these days can do so much that a tinkering with something like this no longer feels futuristic or cutting edge like a C=64 did back then.
https://mega65.org
https://www.commanderx16.com/
Which is based on the 6502-compatible 65C816 but used a simple banking scheme instead of the broken 24-bit address space that chip natively supports (no 24-bit index registers) The way video memory works in it is really clever and lets it really surpass 1980s machines in many ways.
My favorite retrocomputer though has to be
https://www.olimex.com/Products/Retro-Computers/AgonLight2/o...
which is priced right though it doesn't have the keyboard and instead based on the eZ80 which really does extend the Z-80 with 24-bit registers so that you can use all the RAM easily.
Also, Python would have been better than BASIC as the built-in default language.
If you want Python just use modern laptop, no need to retro anything.
BASIC has command-like statements, no complexity like lambda, classes, modules, etc.
Just not having line numbers cooked in is a total game changer.
And no GOTO.
If they upgraded the C64's BASIC to 7.0, that would already make a lot of things much more accessible.
Yup, even for the old 8-bit computers FORTH would've been a lot more elegant than BASIC. But back in the day BASIC came with highly valued conveniences such as a soft-float implementation that meant support for the "desk calculator" use case was available out of the box, and users could just go on from there.
It encourages the user to learning programming and develop their own apps.
IMHO, humanity is yet to build a better beginner language, at least if you look at the late BASICs such as QuickBASIC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLPC_XO
Exactly. This is what I think every time I see one of these old revival projects. I don't want a Spectrum, C64, Atari ST, etc...we have those, they're fairly easy to acquire and renovate. And are more than capable of being run on a FPGA. And there are dozens of projects built around the same old 6502, Z80, etc.
Stop locking your perspective into the 80s to try to recapture that nostalgia.
No, give me a new "hobbyist" computer in the spirit of those days. Throw an ARM m-series/RISC-V/etc on it with some custom blitter/vdpu and sound ASICs and 512MB of RAM. Give it some easily accessible programming environment on ROM, with an option to baremetal with ASM, C, etc. Add a few slots that are MMAPed in. And let the hobbyist field run wild.
The C64 had good graphics and excellent sound but so much of it was behind a brick-wall learning curve of poking. Atari's native BASIC at least provided some rudimentary access. You want something where the user can get a win on day 1, or it's getting buried in the closet with the rock tumbler.
Or maybe if they packed in a super-extended BASIC ROM. But pretty quickly you end up wanting something with more modern flow control and structures, maybe closer to "Qbasic with sprite commands" and then you're probably demanding more than what can be reasonably asked of a 6510-class CPU.
https://revive-machines.com/index-en.html
Is this all just nostalgia? Nostalgia is one of our two core pillars - alongside modern innovation. Like yin and yang, these forces balance and strengthen each other in that retro • futurism approach.
The commercial power of nostalgia is real - and it will help fuel and fund the development of modern, forward-facing products in turn. It’s a symbiotic cycle: retro inspires, modern sustains. Commodore isn’t returning. It’s evolving, with purpose.
This sentence is 100% AI generated: "It’s a symbiotic cycle: retro inspires, modern sustains. Commodore isn’t returning. It’s evolving, with purpose."
https://www.lexaloffle.com/picotron.php
Why not have both?
You could buy this and you could setup EndlessOS:
https://www.endlessos.org/os
https://www.pouet.net/prodlist.php?platform%5B0%5D=Commodore...
Some of it is astonishing given the limitations of the machine.
The technical mastery and creative problem solving going on here is what keeps the demoscene alive. The C64 is still going strong, new productions come out all the time.
And I can't think of a better machine for a kid today to start out with than an 8-bit machine. If they learn assembly language on a C64, they will have a far better understanding of how computers actually work than anyone taking a class in web or crypto or whatever they teach kids about computers today.
Computers used to be fun and yet require actual interest and effort, it's why I ended where I am. What a bait and switch.
All that said I do miss this era of computing greatly where one could understand it inside out and that was encouraged. I loved the C64 demo scene in the 80s.
10 FORL=54272T054295:POKEL,0:NEXT
15 POKE54296,15:TI$="000000"
20 POKE54277,255:POKE54278,255
25 POKE54284,255:POKE54285,255
30 POKE54276,17:POKE54283,17
40 FORA=8TO1STEP-1:FORB=ATO1STEP-1
45 T=TI+2952/B
50 POKE54273,3: POKE54272,A
55 POKE54288,3:POKE54279,A+B
60 PRINTA,A+B
70 IFTI<TTHEN70
80 NEXT:NEXT
90 POKE54276,16:POKE54283,16
Don't get me wrong, I would love to have the box, but to me commodore means the complete opposite. It was the tech that inspired me to start learning and later building complex systems. The evolution of tech after this machine did not steal anything from me, but enriched my life both financially and otherwise.
No comments yet
How about a new operating system with backwards compatibility that runs on modern arm hardware...
and
https://myretrocomputer.com/
I have a couple of KIM-1 "clones" and enjoy them as well. I feel like, in my old age, whenever that comes, I will enjoy them even more. Diving at long last deep into assembly....
This was just sitting in his garage. "Take it - take it all" he said. Then... was sort of forceful with it, and started putting it in my car. :)
I took it back home, and... realized I can't connect it to anything. And I'm not a hardware guy. I hate hacking on that sort of stuff. So I ended up giving it all to a friend who was getting in to retro stuff with his son. I think they got it working and connected up to something. I also gave him my C128.
I still have the original Commodore 'Prolog' and (IIRC) 'Forth' packaging somewhere in the office here. :)
Looking at these (and probably some other incarnations) I'm tempted to get one only because of the built in HDMI.
I've poked around with some emulators online and it's fun, but the combination of the original keyboard and shape plus HDMI might be enough to get me to commit. Probably just the original beige though.
I have a feeling many who buy this product will ultimately do the same.
Sometimes the nostalgia doesn't kick in, and clearly many things were objectively bad in a way that hits differently now. I wouldn't want to sit long nights writing assembly code and battle bad sectors on floppy disks. But I still think it's a great little gaming computer.
Is this the same folks?
The PCB looks like a rebranded "Ultimate 64" FPGA board [2], which has been out in a couple of iterations for a few years.
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2fGP59mJ5M
2. https://ultimate64.com/
I've done a lot of work with the IBM i Series (AS400), which has an interface from that era, but no games.
No comments yet
Let's see!
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/checkmate1500mini/retro...
(Stephen Jones' project - he also has Commodore background, IIRC)
Jeri Ellsworth as Technical Advisor is also a solid member of the C64 community.
https://mega65.org/
Huge labour of love, and far more interesting.
20 GOTO 10
RUN
You can play games and even program (basic, assembly, etc) using a real keyboard. Pretty cool!
I like this is hardware based rather than emulated. However, I'm unconvinced by the color changing case, which the C64 didn't have...
> I'm unconvinced by the color changing case, which the C64 didn't have...
They have beige.
But not just the coders, the artists (visual/audio) are also wizards.