I've been bullish on neon for a while -- the idea hits exactly the right spot, IMO, and their execution looks good in my limited experience.
But I mean that from a technical perspective. I never have any real idea about the business -- do they have an edge that makes people want to start paying them money and keep paying them money? Heck if I know.
I guess that's going to be Databricks problem now (maybe).
xyst · 3h ago
Actual revenue is irrelevant. This is a business decision to corner the market.
newfocogi · 4h ago
They offer serverless Postgres. Here's a link if anyone else needs it https://neon.tech/
beoberha · 44m ago
Congrats to the Neon team - they make an awesome product. That’s about all the good I can say here. I don’t blame them for selling out. It’s always felt like a “when” not an “if”. I would be surprised if you can make money selling cloud databases - especially when funded by VCs.
forgetfulness · 2h ago
What is the lowdown on Databricks? Their bread and butter were hosted Spark and notebooks. As tasks done in Spark over a data lake began to be delegated wholesale to columnar store ELT, they tried to pivot to "lake houses", then I sort of lost track of them after I got out of Spark myself.
Did Delta Lake ever catch on? Where are they going now?
richardw · 1h ago
Capture enterprise AI enthusiasm by providing a 1-stop shop for data and AI, optionally hosted on your own cloud tenant. Keep deploying functionality so clients never need another supplier. Partner with SAP, OpenAI, anyone who holds market share. Buy anyone that either helps growth or might help a competitor grow.
Enterprise view: delegate AI environment to Databricks unless you’re a real player. Market is too chaotic, so rely on them to keep your innovation pipeline fed. Focus on building your own core data and AI within their environment. Nobody got fired for choosing Databricks.
jimbokun · 30m ago
Can someone translate this to non-CEO speak?
yalogin · 2h ago
A tangential question here, will Databricks ever go public? At this point it's a large company making billion dollar acquisitions.
For someone looking to join the company, I cannot imagine IPO to be a motivation anymore.
manquer · 2h ago
Later stage things are , the potential IPO is a benefit not deterrent. Recruiters and hiring managers will hint at potential IPO being not far off as an incentive to join. It minimizes risk, they do same for potential target’s founders like Neon here .
This is better than earlier stage startups , while you get far better multiples , it is also quite possible that you are let go somewhere into the cycle without the money to vest the options for tax reasons and there is short vesting period on exit.
For this reason companies these days offer 5/10 yr post leaving as a more favorable offer
——
For founders it is gives them a shorter window to a exit than on their own, and in revenue light and tech heavy startup like neon (compared to databricks) the value risk is reduced because stock they get in acquisition is based on real revenue and growth not early stage product traction as neon would be today .
They also have some cash component which is usually enough to buy core things in most founders look at like buying a house in few million range or closing mortgages or invest in few early stage projects directly or through funds
ww520 · 2h ago
If they are making money, there is no pressure to raise money from IPO.
kyawzazaw · 2h ago
they can do employee liquidity event
yalogin · 2h ago
That is not the same as an IPO right?
manquer · 2h ago
No, basically it is a buy back of employee options and stock .
Many companies raise money only to give liquidity to founders / employees and some early investors even if they don’t money for operations at all.
While Databricks is large , there are much bigger companies which would have IPOed at smaller sizes in the past which are delaying (may never do) today. Stripe and SpaceX are the biggest examples both have healthy positive cash flows but don’t feel the value of going public . Buying back shares and options is the only route if you don’t have IPO plans if you want to keep early stage employees happy
hgontijo · 2h ago
Company offers to purchase employee pre-ipo shares.
VirusNewbie · 2h ago
Why does it matter if you get liquidity events 2-4x per year
datadrivenangel · 5h ago
Databricks is trying hard to get into serverless, but it seems like they refuse to allow it to actually be cheaper, which defeats the purpose of serverless.
programmertote · 3h ago
I had an interview with a senior data engineering candidate and we were talking about how expensive Databricks can get. :D I set up specific budget alerts in Azure just for Databricks resources in DEV and PROD environments.
thrance · 4h ago
I don't think being cheaper is the main value sell of serverless. When I hear "serverless" I think "ease of deployment and automatic scaling".
whateveracct · 4h ago
Right but ultimately that's a cost thing, right? Because you can solve those problems through other means and by hiring internally.
Serverless is meant to obviate some of that. But it is less compelling when the vendor tries to gobble up that margin for themselves.
sitkack · 3h ago
You will all forced to go serverless because new grads can't use the command line. Running a database is about the hardest thing you can do. If it is serverless, you don't need special skills, preventing employees from becoming valuable lowers costs across the board.
markus_zhang · 2h ago
I'm confused. I saw users left Databricks left and right. Two companies I worked for previously got out of it due to cost.
Or it's just a business decision to corner the market, as someone else said
klabb3 · 1h ago
They aren’t exactly hiding it. I kept my eye on bit.io because they looked very promising. Next day, gone. Shut down immediately. Something is fucky with the investment pipeline because it’s not ”worth” that much on its own, it’s a market dominance play, bad for innovation..
mcmcmc · 1h ago
> Or it's just a business decision to corner the market, as someone else said
Given how lax antitrust enforcement is, probably this
999900000999 · 2h ago
Supabase just raised 200 million.
What’s with all these Postgres hosting services being worth so much now?
Someone at AWS probably thought about this, easy to provision serverless Postgres, and they just didn’t build it.
I’m still looking for something that can generate types and spit it out in a solid sdk.
It’s amazing this isn’t a solved problem. A long long time ago, I was apart of a team trying to sort this out. I’m tempted to hit up my old CEO and ask him what he thinks.
The company is long gone…
If anything we tried to do way too much with a fraction of the funding.
In a hypothetical almost movie like situation I wouldn’t hesitate to rejoin my old colleagues.
The issue then, as is today is applications need backends. But building backends is boring, tedious and difficult.
Maybe a NoSql DB that “understands” the Postgres API?
investa · 2h ago
Building backends is easy. It is sort of weird. In 2003 no one would bat an eyelid at building an entire app and chucking it on a server. I guess front-end complexity had made that a specialism so with all that dev energy drained they have no time for the backend. The backend is substantial easier though!
These high value startups timed well to capture the vibe coding (was known as builidng an MVP before), front end culture and sheer volume of internet use and developers.
999900000999 · 1h ago
It’s harder than signing up for Firebase.
You have to understand a separate set of concerns. Spin something up on ec2, hook it into a db, configure https , figure out why it went down, etc.
You’re right though, once I build a complex front end I want someone else to do the backend.
jimbokun · 19m ago
You need all that stuff when you need to scale. For an MVP you can get away with very little.
jimbokun · 21m ago
> Maybe a NoSql DB that “understands” the Postgres API?
I believe there are several of these already, like Cockroach DB.
_bohm · 2h ago
"Easy to provision" is mostly a strategic feature for acquiring new users/customers. The more difficult parts of building a database platform are reliability and performance, and it can take a long time to establish a reputation for having these qualities. There's a reason why most large enterprises stick to the hyperscalers for their mission-critical workloads.
investa · 2h ago
That reason also includes SOC2, FedRAMP, data at rest jurisdiction, availability zones etc. And if large enough you can negotiate the standard pricing.
_bohm · 1h ago
For sure. And oftentimes these less sexy features or certifications are much more cumbersome to implement/acquire than the flashy stuff these startups lead with
zamderax · 2h ago
Supabase is particularly valuable for its users. Or right now “vibecoders”
joshstrange · 2h ago
Well this isn't great news. I quite enjoy using Neon but I doubt it's going to continue to cater to people like me if it's bought by Databricks (from the little I know about them and from looking at their website).
Thankfully, I just need "Postgres", I wasn't depending on any other features so I can migrate easily if things start going south.
clpm4j · 4h ago
I've been seriously considering neon for a new application. This definitely gives me pause... maybe plain ol' Postgres is going to be the winner for me again.
I haven't studied the CLA situation in order to know if a rug pull is on the table but Tofu and Valkey have shown that where there's a will there's a way
jedberg · 4h ago
Why would this give you pause? You just don't want the data to be where Databricks is?
Either way, there are plenty of other serverless Postgres options out there, Supabase being one of the most popular.
MOARDONGZPLZ · 3h ago
Can’t speak for anyone but myself and my experience anecdotally, having used Databricks: I consider them to be the Oracle of the modern era. Under no circumstances would I let them get their hooks into any company I have the power from preventing it.
clpm4j · 1h ago
This is exactly how I feel. I do not want to be in the Databricks ecosystem.
thor24 · 3h ago
Why do think so? Databricks notebook product I have used in couple of companies is pretty solid. I have done any google research but they are generally known to be very high talent dense kind of place to work.
sitkack · 3h ago
You and the parent are not talking about the same things.
omneity · 3h ago
Supabase, while a great product, does not offer serverless Postgress.
jedberg · 2h ago
What would you say they offer then if not serverless Postgres?
You set up a database, you connect to it, they take care of the rest. It even scales to $0 if you don't use it.
Is that not serverless Postgres?
omneity · 40m ago
Serverless in the context of Postgres means to decouple storage and compute, so you could scale compute "infinitely" without setting up replica servers. This is what Neon offers, where you can just keep hitting their endpoints with your pg client and it should just take whatever load (in principle) and bill you per request.
Supabase gives you a server that runs classic Postgres in a process. Scaling in this scenario means you increase your server's capacity, with a potential downtime while the upgrade is happening.
You are confusing _managed_ Postgres for _serverless_.
How is what Supabase offers different from what Neon offers from a user perspective?
greenavocado · 2h ago
> Why would this give you pause?
After a funding round the value extraction from customers is just over the horizon
vibhork · 3h ago
Try Supabase!
taw1285 · 2h ago
I am fairly new to all this data pipeline services (Databricks, Snowflakes etc).
Say right now I have an e-commerce site with 20K MAU. All metrics are going to Amplitude and we can use that to see DAU, retention, and purchase volume. At what point in my startup lifecycle do we need to enlist the services?
speakfreely · 1h ago
A non-trivial portion of my consulting work over the past 10 years has been working on data pipelines at various big corporations that move absurdly small amounts of data around using big data tools like spark. I would not worry about purchasing services from Databricks, but I would definitely try to poach their sales people if you can.
emmelaich · 10m ago
I'm aware of a govt agency with a few hundred gb of data using Mongo, Databricks and were being pushed towards Snowflake as well. Boggles the mind.
jimbokun · 15m ago
Which is also a reason to not use Databricks, as they will cost your company money by selling gullible users things they don’t need.
chachra · 2h ago
Hope they don't increase the price!!
User23 · 1h ago
Meanwhile here I am wondering why everyone isn’t using SQLite.
jimbokun · 12m ago
If you can serve all your traffic by a single instance running Sqlite in same process as your application, have at it.
If you need to serve your dats across a network to many clients, managing that with SQLite is much trickier.
HWR_14 · 44m ago
I thought SQLite's use case was for a single-user local database.
outside1234 · 3h ago
Ok, can we just. How is Databricks an AI unicorn exactly?
ivape · 3h ago
Enterprises have lots of data. They store it somewhere, and there are multiple vendors that provide such "credible" infrastructure for this type of storage. Think of it like, your dad says he's willing to get a dog, but only trusts these-five-animal-shelters and nothing else. That doesn't mean that's correct (that those are the only places to get a dog), it just means that's what he trusts. Databricks is most likely a unicorn because they have successfully sold the idea that they are one of those trusted vendors, like Snowflake.
The truth of the 2010s up until now is that every startup was a massive sales con job. The wealth of this industry is not truly built on incredible tech, but on the audacity of salesmanship. It's a billion-dollar con job. That's one of the reasons I take every ridiculous startup that launches quite seriously, because you have no idea just how audacious their sales people are. They can sell anything.
Your question is very fundamental, and the answer is just as raw and fundamental too. I would love it if some of these sales people actually reform and write tell-alls about how they conned so many large companies in their years of working. This content has got to be out there somewhere.
woooooo · 1h ago
So, I'm not sure if this is less cynical or more cynical, but.. have you ever talked to the decision-makers who buy something like databricks?
They can't build it themselves, and it's highly dubious that they'd be able to hire and supervise someone to build it. Databricks may be selling "nothing special", but it's needed, and the buyers can't build it themselves.
s1artibartfast · 52m ago
My mental model is that there are few big money printing industries, and the major players and it will pay just about anything for a slight advantage. It's really about additive revenue, it's about protecting market share.
I've been bullish on neon for a while -- the idea hits exactly the right spot, IMO, and their execution looks good in my limited experience.
But I mean that from a technical perspective. I never have any real idea about the business -- do they have an edge that makes people want to start paying them money and keep paying them money? Heck if I know.
I guess that's going to be Databricks problem now (maybe).
Did Delta Lake ever catch on? Where are they going now?
Enterprise view: delegate AI environment to Databricks unless you’re a real player. Market is too chaotic, so rely on them to keep your innovation pipeline fed. Focus on building your own core data and AI within their environment. Nobody got fired for choosing Databricks.
For someone looking to join the company, I cannot imagine IPO to be a motivation anymore.
This is better than earlier stage startups , while you get far better multiples , it is also quite possible that you are let go somewhere into the cycle without the money to vest the options for tax reasons and there is short vesting period on exit.
For this reason companies these days offer 5/10 yr post leaving as a more favorable offer
——
For founders it is gives them a shorter window to a exit than on their own, and in revenue light and tech heavy startup like neon (compared to databricks) the value risk is reduced because stock they get in acquisition is based on real revenue and growth not early stage product traction as neon would be today .
They also have some cash component which is usually enough to buy core things in most founders look at like buying a house in few million range or closing mortgages or invest in few early stage projects directly or through funds
Many companies raise money only to give liquidity to founders / employees and some early investors even if they don’t money for operations at all.
While Databricks is large , there are much bigger companies which would have IPOed at smaller sizes in the past which are delaying (may never do) today. Stripe and SpaceX are the biggest examples both have healthy positive cash flows but don’t feel the value of going public . Buying back shares and options is the only route if you don’t have IPO plans if you want to keep early stage employees happy
Serverless is meant to obviate some of that. But it is less compelling when the vendor tries to gobble up that margin for themselves.
Do they still have a lot of $$$?
https://blog.bit.io/whats-next-for-bit-io-joining-databricks... https://www.databricks.com/blog/welcoming-bit-io-databricks-...
Or it's just a business decision to corner the market, as someone else said
Given how lax antitrust enforcement is, probably this
What’s with all these Postgres hosting services being worth so much now?
Someone at AWS probably thought about this, easy to provision serverless Postgres, and they just didn’t build it.
I’m still looking for something that can generate types and spit it out in a solid sdk.
It’s amazing this isn’t a solved problem. A long long time ago, I was apart of a team trying to sort this out. I’m tempted to hit up my old CEO and ask him what he thinks.
The company is long gone…
If anything we tried to do way too much with a fraction of the funding.
In a hypothetical almost movie like situation I wouldn’t hesitate to rejoin my old colleagues.
The issue then, as is today is applications need backends. But building backends is boring, tedious and difficult.
Maybe a NoSql DB that “understands” the Postgres API?
These high value startups timed well to capture the vibe coding (was known as builidng an MVP before), front end culture and sheer volume of internet use and developers.
You have to understand a separate set of concerns. Spin something up on ec2, hook it into a db, configure https , figure out why it went down, etc.
You’re right though, once I build a complex front end I want someone else to do the backend.
I believe there are several of these already, like Cockroach DB.
Thankfully, I just need "Postgres", I wasn't depending on any other features so I can migrate easily if things start going south.
I haven't studied the CLA situation in order to know if a rug pull is on the table but Tofu and Valkey have shown that where there's a will there's a way
Either way, there are plenty of other serverless Postgres options out there, Supabase being one of the most popular.
You set up a database, you connect to it, they take care of the rest. It even scales to $0 if you don't use it.
Is that not serverless Postgres?
Supabase gives you a server that runs classic Postgres in a process. Scaling in this scenario means you increase your server's capacity, with a potential downtime while the upgrade is happening.
You are confusing _managed_ Postgres for _serverless_.
Others in the serverless Postgres space:
- https://www.orioledb.com/ (pg extension)
- https://www.thenile.dev/ (pg "distribution")
- https://www.yugabyte.com/ (not emphasizing serverless but their architecture would allow for it)
How is what Supabase offers different from what Neon offers from a user perspective?
After a funding round the value extraction from customers is just over the horizon
Say right now I have an e-commerce site with 20K MAU. All metrics are going to Amplitude and we can use that to see DAU, retention, and purchase volume. At what point in my startup lifecycle do we need to enlist the services?
If you need to serve your dats across a network to many clients, managing that with SQLite is much trickier.
The truth of the 2010s up until now is that every startup was a massive sales con job. The wealth of this industry is not truly built on incredible tech, but on the audacity of salesmanship. It's a billion-dollar con job. That's one of the reasons I take every ridiculous startup that launches quite seriously, because you have no idea just how audacious their sales people are. They can sell anything.
Your question is very fundamental, and the answer is just as raw and fundamental too. I would love it if some of these sales people actually reform and write tell-alls about how they conned so many large companies in their years of working. This content has got to be out there somewhere.
They can't build it themselves, and it's highly dubious that they'd be able to hire and supervise someone to build it. Databricks may be selling "nothing special", but it's needed, and the buyers can't build it themselves.