The EU council can publish whatever press release they want - that's not gonna make a slightest dent in the business-hostile environment. Maybe it's perfectly clear for von der Leyen why the EU needs engineers and scientists but these sweet old ladies in the local job center will make sure your application shall never pass. And between those two entities (EU council and your local city council) guess who has the real power over your success?
A successful environment for business forms only when the most local government gives it a go. For example, Poland is quite welcoming and it shows[1].
I would absolutely love for the EU to wake up but in order for that to happen, something needs to change deeply in the governing structure.
Also in the general culture. People I feel are too comfortable. The amount of times I've heard the phrase, "But we don't need to shoot for those stars, I'm okay if we do this small thing that makes us comfortable."
The ambitious people have left for the US.
ed_mercer · 56m ago
I think this was true 10 years ago but nut anymore after Ukraine.
triknomeister · 44m ago
I hope but I'm not so sure.
mnky9800n · 3h ago
They will need to spend waaaay more money across Europe and insist on relaxing working rules if they are planning on attracting top talent. Shit like shutting down VU earth science in Amsterdam after spending 20 million euros on new facilities should not fly. The same is true for the way soft money positions work. I know a nonzero number of people who have won ERC grants which are work millions of euros only to have the university they work at refuse to offer them a contract because they have reached the limit of years allowed to work on a temporary contract. This means they either have to find a new host for their erc or not accept the grant. I love working in Europe as a scientist and have done so for 10+ years. But I think there should be more of everything in order to compete with America.
jltsiren · 3h ago
The issue with soft money positions is mostly that universities insist on being shitty employers.
By default, all jobs are supposed to be open-ended. Fixed-term contracts are only allowed for legitimate reasons. Hiring someone for the expected duration of a PhD is a legitimate reason. The availability of funding is not. And even if the reason would be legitimate in isolation, multiple consecutive fixed-term contracts would be evidence that the employer has a permanent need for the employee, turning the contract automatically permanent.
When I was still in Finland, people were speculating that all postdoc positions were technically illegal, as were tenure-track positions. But it was also understood that if someone actually insisted on enforcing the law, the government would have to change it. Because rewriting the laws is much easier than making universities change their ways.
mnky9800n · 1h ago
Agreed. However, how shitty is it when you win a grant worth millions of euros, a large fraction of which would go directly into the university coffers and not your project, and the university responds with, "lol, no thanks."
triknomeister · 1h ago
Lack of ambition I call it. People have become too comfortable. Europe had become rich enough that throwing away such opportunities wouldn't affect them. Now it does, but they are too entrenched to see it. The number of times I've seen a position go empty just because people couldn't resolve their internal conflcits is too high. Also, there's apparently no punishment for letting positions go empty.
Is there a better way to coerce them to go work for putin instead of the western world?
pjc50 · 1h ago
.. because they got flagged by the security service.
People spent a lot of the cold war guessing "is this person a defector or a double agent?", and I guess we're going back there. Similar things happen in the US, of course, both for Russians and Chinese people. And let's not forget the Russian tourists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_...
jamil7 · 5h ago
There's nothing of substance here, there's isn't any actual visa or residency fast track or any reforms mentioned just a vague "invitation".
The problem France has is that the administration (including to deal with immigration status and residence card), tax law, employment law, business laws, everything is highly hostile as soon as you set foot there.
It's bonkers, really, to play against yourself that way.
ThePowerOfFuet · 3h ago
My move was the easiest thing ever, and a four-year Blue Card was great. QoL is phenomenal, too.
cruzcampo · 4h ago
The same can be said of the US under the Trump regime.
GardenLetter27 · 2h ago
And before... the process has been a nightmare for years - be it for H1-B, L1 or even O1 visas.
avhception · 4h ago
As a German: It's probably easier to just come here and pretend you lost your passport or something than going the official way. Start the process in multiple Bundesländer, under different names. That way, the bureaucracy probably won't catch up with you for the next 40 years.
n_ary · 3h ago
Unless this is a sarcasm, you have proven that either you are 150% disconnected from reality or is discounting the entire immigration hurdle and access to every basic necessity(bank, housing, healthcare, work permit, qualification recognition etc) requiring a valid ID.
_Wintermute · 1h ago
They can invite whoever they want, but I think they will struggle to attract talent unless they actually start making some changes to make it a more attractive option rather than just assuming elsewhere is going to get worse.
I did a post-doc in France after my PhD in the UK. It was possibly worthwhile just for the experience, but the actual funding and research environment is not one I would recommend to my colleagues.
rbanffy · 5h ago
I can tell you I have zero regrets from moving to Ireland almost ten years ago.
I second Ursula’s invitation. There’s much wonder to discover this side of the Atlantic.
CoastalCoder · 50m ago
I'd love to hear more about what you like about living there.
buyucu · 1h ago
von der Leyen's country, Germany, has a very hostile immigrations system. Not as bad as America these days, but still dystopian. The Auslaenderamt across Germany is filled with racists and bigots.
n_ary · 54m ago
It depends… There are really good people and there are bad people. While there is room to improve, I have decent number of colleagues who praises the system and decent number who have points that they deserve more respect. That being said, there is a secret saying, if you hate foreigners then you work in immigration to make their life hard and derive pleasure. Other than that, the rules change too much than necessary, because immigrants are the powerless scapegoats for any political and social failure of the nation, so the case workers are always playing catchup to the new changes and commit mistakes both unintentionally and intentionally(to avoid legal issues).
anovikov · 6h ago
Hahah and then people get jailed for memes and for (presumably) questioning Holocaust.
Even these ridiculous cases aside, in Europe it's very difficult to fall out of line and question the authority on every level. Whole society is based on that - subordination, tradition, and long-term personal connections lasting generations. Same shit first settlers in the US ran away from, it's still here.
Some European languages have no word for "networking". Because it's not a thing. You are supposed to work with the people you went to school with, and your family connections, all your life. It takes weeks to build trust with an American, it might take whole life to build trust with a European.
rbanffy · 5h ago
The upside of this, jailing racists and nazis for being racists and nazis, is that we don’t have (too many) problems with nazis and racists.
> You are supposed to work with the people you went to school with, and your family connections, all your life
What you describe is common in very closed societies, something we are proud we work not to be. In places where the language doesn’t have a word for networking, we use “networking”. Not sure if it’s the same everywhere, but where I live we have a lot of “new Irish” (as opposed to “born Irish”) and we like to have meet-ups so that all those people who are new to this place can feel welcome.
n_ary · 3h ago
As another fellow European, I also agree that this is putting nazis and dangerous people behind bars but recently more generic people had gone behind bars or legal hurdles compared to actual nazis amd racists because due to heavy shift to right, racism and nazi supporters now pretend to be doing political campaigns to cover their crimes and walking free. Not a good sign but I am optimistic.
inglor_cz · 3h ago
"The upside of this, jailing racists and nazis for being racists and nazis, is that we don’t have (too many) problems with nazis and racists."
I wonder what metric you use for (too many problems). We also jail the most outspoken jihadis, but western Europe has a huge problem with Islamic radicalism anyway.
The far right has fairly high preferences in the last decade or so, so in practice, you have a lot of far right politicians in parliaments and sometimes governments.
Jailing people don't make them disappear, indeed they are good at exploiting the forced pause and radicalizing other people that happen to sit behind the same bars. Which means that their new recruits will stem from the most violent, least socialized subsets of the society.
Ideologies are somewhat contagious. Unless you isolate the carriers socially, which is hard to impossible, they tend to infect new people.
avhception · 4h ago
As a European: While we sure do have problems along the lines of nepotism and some of the other stuff, your comment feels like an exaggeration that exceeds the limits of interacting in good faith.
Restrictions on speech always begin by something that many will argue is sensible, then they start growing into what boils down to totalitarianism.
cruzcampo · 1h ago
> Restrictions on speech always begin by something that many will argue is sensible, then they start growing into what boils down to totalitarianism.
May I introduce you to the Paradox of Tolerance, formulated by the Austrian Karl Popper after seeing the rise of Nazism?
> Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.
> In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise.
> But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.
snkzxbs · 44m ago
I don’t take advice from lousy beer that advocates for restrictions on my fundamental rights.
cruzcampo · 37m ago
I see you haven't really gotten the point.
The fundamental rights of Nazis have to be restricted so they can't get the power to restrict the fundamental rights of the rest of us. We cannot be tolerant of intolerance.
libertine · 2h ago
Have you seen the current US administration?
It's a prime example of corruption, nepotism, subordination, people being jailed, and extradited without prosecution... It's not looking good.
You have a new "deep state" out in the open, composed of billionaires, some of whom got rich through taxpayers' money, you have the President dropping crypto dumps, allowing him to get an influx of cash from undisclosed sources... and isn't he still doing fundraising? For what?
FranzFerdiNaN · 3h ago
> Some European languages have no word for "networking".
This seems completely made up.
> Even these ridiculous cases aside, in Europe it's very difficult to fall out of line and question the authority on every level.
What a bunch of nonsense. Exactly because we have things like worker protections we are perfectly fine telling our boss when nonsense comes out. We cant get fired on a whim like Americans, which forces Americans to sycophantic behavior so they wont lose their job and healthcare.
> It takes weeks to build trust with an American, it might take whole life to build trust with a European.
Sounds like a you problem.
graemep · 2h ago
> This seems completely made up.
I agree. Which European languages? Not English for a start!
The comment is cherry picking bits from different countries and combining them to create a fictional "Europe".
__m · 5h ago
your previous comment:
> Not sure what they are planning to gain this way. Just alienate Trump administration and become a subject of government action? That's near certain to happen when you fall out of line.
0xy · 2h ago
The EU is hostile to all emerging technologies like AI, why would any scientist go there? Let alone the poverty wages you'll earn and the 50%+ tax you'll pay.
cruzcampo · 2h ago
That's just straight up FUD.
dkh · 2h ago
By "hostile" are you referring to Europe's tendency to adopt new technologies deliberately and methodically, taking into consideration things like ethics, public safety, and societal impact? I think it's hostile (to people) to not do these things, to charge towards new and potentially society-altering technologies with roughly the same level of caution and care as the Kool-Aid Man smashing through walls with reckless abandon
The EU council can publish whatever press release they want - that's not gonna make a slightest dent in the business-hostile environment. Maybe it's perfectly clear for von der Leyen why the EU needs engineers and scientists but these sweet old ladies in the local job center will make sure your application shall never pass. And between those two entities (EU council and your local city council) guess who has the real power over your success?
A successful environment for business forms only when the most local government gives it a go. For example, Poland is quite welcoming and it shows[1].
I would absolutely love for the EU to wake up but in order for that to happen, something needs to change deeply in the governing structure.
[1] https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/08/14/polands-records-eus-f...
The ambitious people have left for the US.
By default, all jobs are supposed to be open-ended. Fixed-term contracts are only allowed for legitimate reasons. Hiring someone for the expected duration of a PhD is a legitimate reason. The availability of funding is not. And even if the reason would be legitimate in isolation, multiple consecutive fixed-term contracts would be evidence that the employer has a permanent need for the employee, turning the contract automatically permanent.
When I was still in Finland, people were speculating that all postdoc positions were technically illegal, as were tenure-track positions. But it was also understood that if someone actually insisted on enforcing the law, the government would have to change it. Because rewriting the laws is much easier than making universities change their ways.
People spent a lot of the cold war guessing "is this person a defector or a double agent?", and I guess we're going back there. Similar things happen in the US, of course, both for Russians and Chinese people. And let's not forget the Russian tourists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_...
It's bonkers, really, to play against yourself that way.
I did a post-doc in France after my PhD in the UK. It was possibly worthwhile just for the experience, but the actual funding and research environment is not one I would recommend to my colleagues.
I second Ursula’s invitation. There’s much wonder to discover this side of the Atlantic.
Even these ridiculous cases aside, in Europe it's very difficult to fall out of line and question the authority on every level. Whole society is based on that - subordination, tradition, and long-term personal connections lasting generations. Same shit first settlers in the US ran away from, it's still here.
Some European languages have no word for "networking". Because it's not a thing. You are supposed to work with the people you went to school with, and your family connections, all your life. It takes weeks to build trust with an American, it might take whole life to build trust with a European.
> You are supposed to work with the people you went to school with, and your family connections, all your life
What you describe is common in very closed societies, something we are proud we work not to be. In places where the language doesn’t have a word for networking, we use “networking”. Not sure if it’s the same everywhere, but where I live we have a lot of “new Irish” (as opposed to “born Irish”) and we like to have meet-ups so that all those people who are new to this place can feel welcome.
I wonder what metric you use for (too many problems). We also jail the most outspoken jihadis, but western Europe has a huge problem with Islamic radicalism anyway.
The far right has fairly high preferences in the last decade or so, so in practice, you have a lot of far right politicians in parliaments and sometimes governments.
Jailing people don't make them disappear, indeed they are good at exploiting the forced pause and radicalizing other people that happen to sit behind the same bars. Which means that their new recruits will stem from the most violent, least socialized subsets of the society.
Ideologies are somewhat contagious. Unless you isolate the carriers socially, which is hard to impossible, they tend to infect new people.
Where I came from "disappeared" means being bundled into a van and turning up dead or not at all.
(Read the article: “disparaging” means quoting what the Quran says about what Muhammad did)
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/its-not-fr...
Restrictions on speech always begin by something that many will argue is sensible, then they start growing into what boils down to totalitarianism.
May I introduce you to the Paradox of Tolerance, formulated by the Austrian Karl Popper after seeing the rise of Nazism?
> Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.
> In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise.
> But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.
The fundamental rights of Nazis have to be restricted so they can't get the power to restrict the fundamental rights of the rest of us. We cannot be tolerant of intolerance.
It's a prime example of corruption, nepotism, subordination, people being jailed, and extradited without prosecution... It's not looking good.
You have a new "deep state" out in the open, composed of billionaires, some of whom got rich through taxpayers' money, you have the President dropping crypto dumps, allowing him to get an influx of cash from undisclosed sources... and isn't he still doing fundraising? For what?
This seems completely made up.
> Even these ridiculous cases aside, in Europe it's very difficult to fall out of line and question the authority on every level.
What a bunch of nonsense. Exactly because we have things like worker protections we are perfectly fine telling our boss when nonsense comes out. We cant get fired on a whim like Americans, which forces Americans to sycophantic behavior so they wont lose their job and healthcare.
> It takes weeks to build trust with an American, it might take whole life to build trust with a European.
Sounds like a you problem.
I agree. Which European languages? Not English for a start!
The comment is cherry picking bits from different countries and combining them to create a fictional "Europe".
> Not sure what they are planning to gain this way. Just alienate Trump administration and become a subject of government action? That's near certain to happen when you fall out of line.