Dynamic Island as a product feature - chef's kiss. Never has a dead area on your screen been marketed so perfectly.
10729287 · 1d ago
Apple always been the best at selling “it’s a feature, not a bug”. Remember iPod shuffle ?
reaperducer · 20h ago
Remember it? I'm listening to one now.
World's best unitasker.
OJFord · 1d ago
What is it? It's the fourth listed feature, and even the 'learn more' page doesn't say wtf 'dynamic island' means.
It's a bizarre page really, the entire top section is:
> 6.5" / 6.9"
[Makes sense so far.]
> Super Retina XDR display1
They're proud of the resolution, whatever it actually is, though only know that because they've used 'retina' for years, and Super & XDR sound high tech and better.
> ProMotion technology
Maybe something to do with motion blur of videos?
> Always-On display
That sounds... Undesirable? But presumably it must just mean it's faster to wake up or something?
> Dynamic Island
Absolutely no idea.
odo1242 · 1d ago
Dynamic Island is Apple’s version of the notch. Instead of being attached to the top of the screen, it’s a pill-shaped cutout (actually, two pill-shaped cutouts) and a bunch of software to make those two pill-shaped cutouts act like one cutout that can display contextual information while hiding the fact that there’s a cutout. You can tell what I’m talking about if you look at a photo.
As for the others:
> Always-on Display: The display will show the current time when the phone is sleeping - it uses less power than it would on an LCD phone because of OLED.
> ProMotion: 120 Hz refresh rate, but only when Low Power Mode is off and the app requests it (e.g. games). So basically VRR (in fact, it is actually VRR under the hood)
chemmail · 7h ago
How is it Apple’s version of the notch when Apple invented that too. I actually perfer a notch over the island. My 13 pro is going strong, but the regular has me very intrigued.
daft_pink · 4h ago
Esim vs Physical Sim Card Analysis: By using Apple’s cellular specifications page (https://www.apple.com/iphone/cellular/) to identify model numbers and supported bands, and then checking SIM card options in the comparison tool (https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/) for each iPhone 17 model number within a single regional Apple store, you can see which versions still include physical SIM trays and which bands they support. Pulling this information into ChatGPT makes the conclusion clear: unlike the iPhone 16, where the Canadian model number was the best choice for users who needed a SIM tray and broad U.S. band support (covering everything except mmWave), the iPhone 17 lineup in Canada is now eSIM-only. That means Canada no longer offers a model number with both a SIM tray and full U.S. carrier compatibility. The only remaining options with physical SIM trays are the non-air European and Chinese model numbers. These versions do support Verizon fully (aside from mmWave which is mostly useless anyways), but they omit key bands needed for AT&T and T-Mobile in the U.S. Becoming harder and harder to travel as China is adding esim, but will only allow phones actually purchased in China on a non tourist plan and any Chinese esim will not work the moment you leave the country while a physical sim will.
politelemon · 1d ago
Please could the apple announcements be merged together this year. I'd argue they are of little interest to a hacker spirit but they are certainly promotional... If they are going to be tolerated could they at least be tolerated in one place.
minimaxir · 1d ago
Aren't most tech product announcements promotional?
xattt · 1d ago
“Could have been a memo”
lenerdenator · 1d ago
> I'd argue they are of little interest to a hacker spirit but they are certainly promotional
I mean, kind of? It's good to know what you might be building against going forward if you're a mobile app dev.
It's not irrelevant.
awestroke · 1d ago
Hilarious how they refuse to list memory (RAM) capacity of their phones. Probably because they are way behind other phones in that regard.
Which is weird, since they focus so much on on-device AI. I guess the very very slightly lower profit margin from including more RAM is incredible unpalatable.
jama211 · 1d ago
It’s because the OS needs far less ram than their competitors to function, and RAM uses electricity and costs money so it makes perfect sense to pack less of it - but they also know showing a lower number than their competitors would be interpreted as a failing by those that don’t understand this.
awestroke · 1d ago
> It’s because the OS needs far less ram than their competitors to function
iOS doesn't magically need less RAM. It just aggressively kills background apps to stay within memory limits, then makes you wait while it reloads them from scratch (burning battery with CPU cycles and NVMe reads instead).
> RAM uses electricity and costs money so it makes perfect sense to pack less of it
No, it's bullshit. Apple kept RAM low to save money, not battery. They could easily pack 16gb with negligible effect on battery life.
hbn · 1d ago
I spent the better part of a decade using exclusively Androids. I rooted, installed custom ROMs and kernels that aimed to improve battery life. Aggressively checked for apps keeping my CPU in a wakelock, restricting the bad apps. And I never had good battery life.
Eventually I bought an iPhone, and even the 12 mini with its "tiny" battery, and putting in zero effort to extend battery life, it had significantly better endurance than any Android I ever owned. And its performance didn't get choppy after the first few months of use like every Android I owned.
The iPhone is almost 20 years old and you'd figure at some point everyone would realize stats and figures and hypothetical napkin math to prove "Android rules iPhone drools" doesn't make everyone's experience using them non-existent.
jama211 · 1h ago
I’m sensing from your aggressive tone you’re emotionally invested in this? I don’t really think it’s worth trying to point out the ways in which you misinterpreted me, or the inaccuracies you’re bringing if you’re going to be like that.
smw · 23h ago
They don't reload them from scratch, for the most part. They force the app developers to design the app to serialize to disk at any point, and then rehydrate when needed. It actually makes developing for iOS much more of a pain in the ass, but it's great for users.
bayindirh · 1d ago
Considering how efficiently they utilize that "low on paper" RAM, I'm not complaining.
All the Apple iDevices I have contains comical amounts of RAM compared to other devices, yet they still can handle tons of tasks despite their age. While I'm pretty picky about RAM in my computers, I can't care less as long as my other iDevices works as advertised.
awestroke · 1d ago
"Efficient" as in "kills apps immediately as soon as they are put in background" so that I constantly lose context in apps when multitasking
bayindirh · 1d ago
Even my "ancient" iPhone X does it so rarely, I don't lose any context. Even if it's happening more frequently than I notice, the apps also restore their contents.
macOS supports context restoration for 7-8 years now at least. iOS has inherited that soon after, so any application "killed", they SHOULD return to the state they exited, given they are implemented correctly.
qn9n · 6h ago
Pretty sure they just use compressed memory and swap for apps that haven't been used in a while, similar to macOS.
formerphotoj · 1d ago
Yup, 64GB iPhone 11 Pro still going strong. A wee bit slow however, so...a new 17? Have to upgrade eventually.
mezeek · 1d ago
Always seemed to me like RAM value is much more irrelevant on phones since every app is sandboxed and uses APIs for background operations.
RAM is also always consuming battery, so there are reasons to minimize it. I wonder what the RAM usage efficiency is between iOS and Android in real-world, installed-app-usage usecases.
cosmic_cheese · 1d ago
It’s also not in their best interest to give third party devs the signal to go hog wild on memory usage. Already a lot of cross platform shovelware eats 2x-3x RAM as much as it needs to, doesn’t respond to memory pressure notifications (apps are supposed to free up nonessential cache, etc when that happens), and push other backgrounded apps out of memory.
reilly3000 · 21h ago
It’s important for on device LLMs.
minimaxir · 1d ago
The presentation specifically called out the iPhone 17 Pro having more memory...but did not elaborate, and the number is not in the tech specs.
It's rumored the Pro has 12GB RAM vs. 8GB for the other models.
madduci · 1d ago
Or the way around: they pack a lot of RAM, so everything is cached and feels faster.
awestroke · 1d ago
No, they don't? This is the first time any of their models have more than 8gb
No comments yet
whalesalad · 1d ago
It's because since the invention of the iPhone ram has never been a concern of the customer. I've never considered it, or felt the need to.
minimaxir · 1d ago
It was an issue with earlier iPhones with the frequency it killed background apps/tabs.
The main incentive causing Apple to finally increase RAM is AI, with everything else being a good side effect.
az226 · 1d ago
Your apps constantly refresh despite only tabbing out to other apps for seconds. Super duper annoying and frustrating.
McAtNite · 21h ago
This is demonstrably false to anyone with one of these devices. I can page over to my podcast app that I used days ago and find it is exactly where I left it.
saagarjha · 1d ago
Mine don't.
pgm8705 · 1d ago
Not sure why the downvotes, it's largely true. Almost every non-techie I encounter in real life incorrectly uses the term "memory" to mean storage space.
ziml77 · 1d ago
Is it really that incorrect? Flash memory is persistent storage. Memory cards used to be how game saves were stored on consoles. The M in ROM stands for memory.
So it seems like we're using the term memory too narrowly, rather than them using it incorrectly.
jama211 · 1d ago
Feels like the air is the “consumer” pro iphone and the actual pro really is a proper product aimed at pros, just took them a while to feel out these lanes.
The real question is next year if they release the rumoured folding iphone if they’ll still keep all 4 of these existing categories…
pkoiralap · 1d ago
I was thinking about what all is new in this version, or in fact in any other versions after iPhone 10/X (I don't know)? They all look same to me.
I personally think that Apple and other smartphone companies need to do a minor and major version release like you do with software. Every 3-5 year, do a major release. This way you create significant hardware/software features every major version, a hype that is well backed up, and at the same time keeps you working and improving and still making money out of it through minor versions. Plus, you also don't have to rely on planned obsolescence as people are gravitated towards the major version release naturally.
hbn · 1d ago
>I personally think that Apple and other smartphone companies need to do a minor and major version release like you do with software. Every 3-5 year, do a major release.
That's basically what they've been doing. That's why people whine when they aren't blown away every year now.
You don't have to buy a new phone every year, and indeed most people don't. The changes are incremental, but if you buy a new phone after 3+ years, the new one will probably noticeably better enough compared to your old to make a difference to you.
The late 2000s - early 2010s were exciting cause there was a lot of room for improvement. It's not so easy now and that's fine, because if you buy a new iPhone, it'll last longer and be overall better than what you got a decade+ ago.
The color choices seem… odd. I can't get a lavender/green/blue Pro Max? The premium option has the least color options, 1/3 of which is... garish?
jerlam · 1d ago
Apple used to reserve the "mature" muted colors for the Pro, and the colorful ones for the base model. Not only did they switch the schemes this year, the Pros also have one less option which suggests... something.
hbn · 1d ago
I'm pretty sure at least in the last 2 years they were kinda limited in colors they could do because titanium is difficult to inject with color.
Before that they used stainless steel, I think they wanted to differentiate the frame from the non-Pro lineup to seem more "premium"
But this year I guess they finally gave in and just use aluminum on the Pros and now they're free to color however they want.
layer8 · 1d ago
Margins on the Air are probably higher than on the Pro, at least for the base storage models, so they may be trying to nudge people to the Air.
conception · 1d ago
It's the same way with cars. The fancier you go, the less options for "fun" apparently "poor people" colors.
fudgy73 · 1d ago
Not exactly. Most upper end car manufacturers have been offering PTS (paint-to-sample) for quite some time. You can choose any color you can think of.
_diyar · 1d ago
They offer a blue Pro Max.
ceejayoz · 1d ago
Eh, that's nearly black. (Which, if I want real black, I can't have. Same for white! Or either of the lighter blues!)
atonse · 1d ago
In past years, part of the new iPhone's hardware was usually coupled with a huge new software feature that was made possible by the new hardware (think of FaceTime for example that came with the front facing camera, or Dynamic Island that came from the full display).
Was there anything like that this year? It felt like the iPhone 17 Pro talk lasted 2 mins, and they spend 99% of their time just talking about the cameras. Although I only started watching parts of the event 52 mins in.
I understand that hardware has mainly reached a steady state, but have we also hit peaks of creativity from the software side, given that we have these amazing machines in our pockets?
Of course, no mention of anything AI, so Apple is either truly restraining themselves until they have something amazing, or they continue to slide into irrelevance and are missing the whole AI shift.
vostrocity · 1d ago
There was only one such feature that caught my eye.
The new front camera sensor is now square. If you have more people in your selfie, the software will detect this and pick a wider aspect ratio for the cropped shot.
Not sure if Android has already been doing this, but this seems like a clever way to use the new hardware.
Have high expectations of their own modem in the new iPhone. Hopefully it makes a difference in terms of connection quality and improves battery life, especially with the cellular coverage in the US.
bix6 · 1d ago
My friends Google phone was getting service when I wasn’t. We both have the same carrier. What gives?
jus3sixty · 1d ago
It's surprising to see the iPhone 17 Pro Max specs compared to those of the Galaxy S25 Ultra.
Comparisons show the S25 Ultra leading in several areas, especially the cameras. The difference in megapixel count is significant.
For years, Apple's flagships were considered superior, but Samsung appears to be pushing boundaries with the S25 Ultra.
Is Apple truly behind, or does their optimization and ecosystem integration make up for it?
notadoctor789 · 3h ago
Amateur photography overemphasizes megapixel count. While a 200MP phone sensor is impressive, the iPhone’s larger pixels and faster sensor deliver superior HDR, low-light, and action shots. However, I find iOS image processing poor; despite Samsung’s oversaturated photos, their processing is better. The proof of the sensor quality is in the video though: never seen video from an Android phone match that of a comparable iPhone.
ghusto · 1d ago
Their cameras have been terrible for a long time (comparatively speaking). I switched from a Pixel 6a to an iPhone 16 and was shocked at how bad my pictures are now. I get the feeling that iPhone users just don't know any better because they've always had an iPhone.
DiggyJohnson · 1d ago
Seems like it just has to do with what you're expecting from a smartphone camera. I feel like Google Pixel is doing even more photo edit magic than iPhone.
hbn · 1d ago
They're straight up using generative AI on zoomed photos now to turn details into AI slop artifacts
Which is literally what Apple announced in this video:
"and the 2x telephoto has an updated photonic engine, which now uses machine learning to capture the lifelike details of her hair and the vibrant color of her jacket"
"like the 2x telephoto, the 8x also utilizes the updated photonic engine, which integrates machine learning into even more parts of the image pipeline. we apply deep learning models for demosaicing"
hbn · 18h ago
They've been using that terminology for like a decade. They take multiple photos and use ML to figure out how to layer them together into a final image where everything is adequately exposed, and applies denoising. Google has done the same thing on Pixels since they've existed.
That's very different from taking that final photo and then running it through generative AI to guess what objects are. Look at the images in that article. It made the stop sign into a perfectly circular shiny button. I've never seen artifacting like that on a photo before.
Havoc · 1d ago
Not looking promising on upgrade
14 ProMax -> 17 Pro (roughly same size) have remarkably few tangible diffs.
Stronger CPU/GPU -> wouldn't notice. It's not a computing device for me
3x to 8x optical zoom and nice camera yeah would notice
Not really? They're similarly priced as the outgoing models.
lvl155 · 1d ago
They’ve been doing this for, what, 14 years now since Jobs passed. I fail to see anything substantially new since then. They’re quite literally milking the cash cow at this point. They became the company the old Apple fans despised.
ceejayoz · 1d ago
> I fail to see anything substantially new since then.
I'm inclined to see Apple's M series chips as pretty substantial.
I don't know that phones need massive innovation right now.
eagerpace · 1d ago
Faster horse situation. I'd take one that was slightly larger that could plug into a monitor and replace my desktop/laptop. But then that would be 1 or 2 less devices I would buy.
I don't understand the Air model. It's cool, but just a different price point. The thickness of a device means nothing to me anymore, they're all close enough.
spicybbq · 1d ago
233g for pro max, 206g for pro, 165g for the Air. That's a big difference. I figure the Air will be a more compelling in person.
It also replaces the worst selling model of the four. The 15 plus and 16 plus models did not sell very well. The pro max is the top seller.
Their phones are so good they don't have much they can do at this point to make them better. You can have a 5 year old iPhone right now and it's probably still a very good device, assuming you swapped the battery since purchase.
It's a pretty good problem to have.
sauercrowd · 1d ago
That's definitely not what I've seen from people around me with an iphone.
Almost all of them complain about the device getting hot, batteries being short lived (even when replaced) and apps being sluggish.
bigstrat2003 · 1d ago
> They’re quite literally milking the cash cow at this point.
Figuratively, not literally. Otherwise I agree.
No comments yet
elorant · 1d ago
So what would you expect them to do, create a new market every ten years?
crinkly · 1d ago
They're incrementally better each cycle. I don't want something radical.
For me, and a lot of people, we get a new phone every 2 years and hand the old one down to family. I've got 3 kids and 4 iPhones in service that get handed down every 2 years. Equivalent in the UK of about $80 a month to run 4 iphones including phone service contracts is pretty cheap.
fsflover · 1d ago
If you're looking for something truly new, have a look at Librem 5 running desktop GNU/Linux with no walled gardens included, able to become a PC with a screen/keyboard.
efitz · 1d ago
I choose Apple over Android precisely because it feels like a device, not a computer.
fsflover · 23h ago
What do you mean by "feels like a device"? Any phone feels like a device to me.
efitz · 22h ago
Android has always felt like a computer to me- too many customizations; too many technical decisions I have to make, too complicated. I can see why many people would like that; I don’t.
This is a very subtle point to try and get across, because it’s scattered across 1 million different design decisions. For example, since the beginning of iPhone, I don’t have to remember to save anything, when I open an app it usually remembers whatever state I need if applicable. Android has moved this direction, but iOS was always that way. Likewise, I do very little customization to my phone other than rearranging icons or changing the wallpaper.
I don’t want to think about the security implications of all the different permission grants when I install an app. iPhone apps ask me for a permission in context, and I can decide at that moment whether or not I want to share my photos or whatever.
Again, I gave two examples, but the thinking behind this is pervasive in the operating system. There just are not many sharp edges.
I am happy living in my walled garden, and I am generally satisfied with the capabilities that the phone gives to me. I am scared of apps because they are potential vehicles for malware, and Apple has a much better track record there than android, much less rooted android.
fsflover · 9h ago
Librem 5 doesn't run Android and doesn't ask you for permissions. It runa ordinary, desktop GNU/Linux with the Debian repositories, which contain virtually no malware. It's a completely different approach to security.
ghusto · 1d ago
Interesting. Can it use not-Gnome?
fsflover · 1d ago
Yes, you can install postmarketOS [0] with, e.g., SXMo [1] or KDE Plasma [2].
My first thought to this was, "Oh, that was today?"
Is the iPhone 17 supposed to be the bottom-of-the-line now, or the 16e?
vostrocity · 1d ago
Apple has been selling multiple generations for many years now. So 16e looks like the cheapest iPhone for this upcoming year.
crinkly · 1d ago
No point in buying a Pro now. Will get a 17 to replace my 15 Pro, give that to my eldest kid and be done with it.
SilverElfin · 1d ago
The Pro has a much larger sensor size for the camera than the previous generation Pro, and also now 8x optical zoom instead of 5x. Big upgrades on the camera front may be a reason for people to stick with the higher price.
crinkly · 1d ago
Looks like it has the same primary/wide cameras as the base model. You just gain the telephoto. It's fine for casual photography.
I have a mirrorless camera if I want to shoot telephoto. That has 375mm reach at the long end on proper glass with no ML crap.
SilverElfin · 1d ago
Yea but most people don’t want to carry a camera. It’s just too easy and convenient to pull out a phone. I respect it but I just found myself not using cameras in practice anymore.
akmarinov · 1d ago
So EU people can’t buy the e-SIM only version and thus get more battery?
Wtf??
derac · 1d ago
Why does the air have usb 2? lmao
dmayle · 21h ago
I am truly shocked by this.
I looked it up, and it turns out you're right. Both the iPhone 17 and the iPhone Air use USB2.
USB3 was introduced in 2008 (!!!). That is 17 years ago.
I already wasn't interested in this tech, to be fair, but I've had to support family phones synchronizing/backing up over the cable, and even at full theoretical speed for the transfer, we're talking over an hour vs just under 7 minutes. Which, considering the flash most likely suppports the read in under a minute, is crazy.
mrweasel · 1d ago
The cheapest of the new phones is 7500DKK ~ 1175USD. That is just insane. I get that I can get an older models and that Apple is a "luxury" brand, but at $1000+ I don't get who buys new iPhones anymore.
Apple seems stuck in a mentality of subsidized phones, which might still be how the US does it, but it makes their product unreasonably expensive in other parts of the world. I can accept that Apple can't do a $200 phone, but that this point I'd be happy with a $500 phone.
ceejayoz · 1d ago
The original iPhone was $499 in 2007. That's $800 today with inflation per https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm. The cheapest model is "from $799", so… the price is basically unchanged for two decades.
dingaling · 1d ago
Inflation calculation doesn't quite work like that. Mobile phones are part of the basket of consumer goods prices that are tracked ( with weightings applied to compensate for increasing complexity and capability ). So they help to define inflation, rather than being the outcome of it.
You'd really need to compare to average salary or purchasing power instead.
ceejayoz · 1d ago
It's a perfectly useful way of looking at it, but if you prefer:
Average salary 2007: $40,405.48; 2023: $66,621.80.
This logic doesn't make sense. The opportunity cost (i.e. the basket of goods you forego buying) of buying an iPhone is exactly the same as it was when the device first launched. No single good in the basket is such a large component of overall measure that you can't use inflated prices to understand, in relative terms, the cost of a good.
mrweasel · 1d ago
The first iPhone in Denmark was 5500DKK in 2008 (at least that's the number I can find). In 2022 I could get the iPhone SE for 4500DKK, så the price actually went down a bit
tanjtanjtanj · 1d ago
It was $499 with a multi-year contract with AT&T.
AT&T most year offers me a free!* iPhone pro every couple years now so it has actually gone way down.
vostrocity · 1d ago
You're likely paying a lot for your phone plan. Unlimited plans these days are in the $25-35 range.
tanjtanjtanj · 6h ago
I have their cheapest unlimited plan.
cosmic_cheese · 1d ago
Competitors like Samsung don’t have any trouble selling models that are even more expensive than iPhones, so there’s definitely a market for high end phones.
cube2222 · 1d ago
Keep in mind that the last few years have seen a lot of inflation in general.
At least here in Poland, the base model is ~20% cheaper than the iPhone 11 at release, inflation-adjusted.
shuckles · 1d ago
The entry price for iPhone 17 matches the entry price for Pixel 10 and other flagships in the United States. Does it not in Denmark?
mrweasel · 1d ago
Checking a price comparison site I say that's about right. With Android I can just pick a different phone that does the few things I need and save thousands. Apple doesn't provide me with that option anymore.
shuckles · 19h ago
The entry price of the iPhone lineup is lower than ever. Their strategy is to reduce it by selling older phones at lower prices. The entry point of the newest iPhone is, inflation adjust, basically the same since iPhone was first introduced. As a result, I don't really understand your complaint.
mrweasel · 14h ago
I think my complaint boils down to the fact that my usage can't justify a $1000+ phone. Rather than stuffing ever more features and processing power into the iPhone, I'd like the progress to be spend on making the phones cheaper and have more battery life. For people like me the iPhone hasn't improved in 10 years, the last feature I sort of cared about was TouchID. So given that I'm stuck in a 2015 use case, seeing no progress, why shouldn't I expect prices to come down significantly?
shuckles · 6h ago
You can buy iPhone 12 on the refurbished market for $300. Apple intends to serve your needs by making great hardware that lasts with long periods of software support.
ceejayoz · 1d ago
Did Apple ever provide that option?
lenerdenator · 1d ago
Unless the 17 is meant to replace it, the 16e is the "entry" model at a price of $599.99.
Which is not a $500 phone, but a $600 phone. Take that as you will.
mrweasel · 1d ago
Closer to $850 here, so I guess it's used phones for me, or time to switch.
lenerdenator · 1d ago
I think Apple sees other (not North American) markets as... not necessarily expendable, but they don't have the foothold they do here outside of the iOS devices, so maybe they just focus on getting more out of the people who already do have devices?
I'd be interested to know their logic. It obviously hasn't caused them too many problems, revenue-wise.
DiggyJohnson · 1d ago
its their slick financing products btw
paxys · 1d ago
The biggest enhancement this year seems to be the across-the-board increase in prices.
Just don't say the "tariff" word...
thebruce87m · 1d ago
Just looking at the AirPods now and they seem to have new features such as heart rate sensing and live translation at the same price.
> The company has refined the design, added heart rate sensing, improved active noise cancellation (ANC), delivered live translation and more. And most importantly, it did so without increasing the price.
The 16 Pro started at 128GB and the 17 Pro starts at 256GB.
They essentially kept the pricing but bumped the lowest storage tier.
jama211 · 1d ago
The first comments on anything apple does are always just angry people taking a swipe. There are legitimate criticisms of apple to be had but you can be assured they’ll be drowned out by the unreasonable ones on any internet forum.
World's best unitasker.
It's a bizarre page really, the entire top section is:
> 6.5" / 6.9"
[Makes sense so far.]
> Super Retina XDR display1
They're proud of the resolution, whatever it actually is, though only know that because they've used 'retina' for years, and Super & XDR sound high tech and better.
> ProMotion technology
Maybe something to do with motion blur of videos?
> Always-On display
That sounds... Undesirable? But presumably it must just mean it's faster to wake up or something?
> Dynamic Island
Absolutely no idea.
As for the others:
> Always-on Display: The display will show the current time when the phone is sleeping - it uses less power than it would on an LCD phone because of OLED.
> ProMotion: 120 Hz refresh rate, but only when Low Power Mode is off and the app requests it (e.g. games). So basically VRR (in fact, it is actually VRR under the hood)
I mean, kind of? It's good to know what you might be building against going forward if you're a mobile app dev.
It's not irrelevant.
Which is weird, since they focus so much on on-device AI. I guess the very very slightly lower profit margin from including more RAM is incredible unpalatable.
iOS doesn't magically need less RAM. It just aggressively kills background apps to stay within memory limits, then makes you wait while it reloads them from scratch (burning battery with CPU cycles and NVMe reads instead).
> RAM uses electricity and costs money so it makes perfect sense to pack less of it
No, it's bullshit. Apple kept RAM low to save money, not battery. They could easily pack 16gb with negligible effect on battery life.
Eventually I bought an iPhone, and even the 12 mini with its "tiny" battery, and putting in zero effort to extend battery life, it had significantly better endurance than any Android I ever owned. And its performance didn't get choppy after the first few months of use like every Android I owned.
The iPhone is almost 20 years old and you'd figure at some point everyone would realize stats and figures and hypothetical napkin math to prove "Android rules iPhone drools" doesn't make everyone's experience using them non-existent.
All the Apple iDevices I have contains comical amounts of RAM compared to other devices, yet they still can handle tons of tasks despite their age. While I'm pretty picky about RAM in my computers, I can't care less as long as my other iDevices works as advertised.
macOS supports context restoration for 7-8 years now at least. iOS has inherited that soon after, so any application "killed", they SHOULD return to the state they exited, given they are implemented correctly.
RAM is also always consuming battery, so there are reasons to minimize it. I wonder what the RAM usage efficiency is between iOS and Android in real-world, installed-app-usage usecases.
It's rumored the Pro has 12GB RAM vs. 8GB for the other models.
No comments yet
The main incentive causing Apple to finally increase RAM is AI, with everything else being a good side effect.
So it seems like we're using the term memory too narrowly, rather than them using it incorrectly.
The real question is next year if they release the rumoured folding iphone if they’ll still keep all 4 of these existing categories…
I personally think that Apple and other smartphone companies need to do a minor and major version release like you do with software. Every 3-5 year, do a major release. This way you create significant hardware/software features every major version, a hype that is well backed up, and at the same time keeps you working and improving and still making money out of it through minor versions. Plus, you also don't have to rely on planned obsolescence as people are gravitated towards the major version release naturally.
That's basically what they've been doing. That's why people whine when they aren't blown away every year now.
You don't have to buy a new phone every year, and indeed most people don't. The changes are incremental, but if you buy a new phone after 3+ years, the new one will probably noticeably better enough compared to your old to make a difference to you.
The late 2000s - early 2010s were exciting cause there was a lot of room for improvement. It's not so easy now and that's fine, because if you buy a new iPhone, it'll last longer and be overall better than what you got a decade+ ago.
iPhone 17 Pro and iPhone 17 Pro Max - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45186044 - Sept 2025 (42 comments)
Apple Debuts iPhone 17 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45186023 - Sept 2025 (104 comments)
iPhone Air - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45186015 - Sept 2025 (431 comments)
Before that they used stainless steel, I think they wanted to differentiate the frame from the non-Pro lineup to seem more "premium"
But this year I guess they finally gave in and just use aluminum on the Pros and now they're free to color however they want.
Was there anything like that this year? It felt like the iPhone 17 Pro talk lasted 2 mins, and they spend 99% of their time just talking about the cameras. Although I only started watching parts of the event 52 mins in.
I understand that hardware has mainly reached a steady state, but have we also hit peaks of creativity from the software side, given that we have these amazing machines in our pockets?
Of course, no mention of anything AI, so Apple is either truly restraining themselves until they have something amazing, or they continue to slide into irrelevance and are missing the whole AI shift.
The new front camera sensor is now square. If you have more people in your selfie, the software will detect this and pick a wider aspect ratio for the cropped shot.
Not sure if Android has already been doing this, but this seems like a clever way to use the new hardware.
38:27 in the Apple Event video (https://www.apple.com/apple-events/).
Comparisons show the S25 Ultra leading in several areas, especially the cameras. The difference in megapixel count is significant.
For years, Apple's flagships were considered superior, but Samsung appears to be pushing boundaries with the S25 Ultra.
Is Apple truly behind, or does their optimization and ecosystem integration make up for it?
https://whatever.scalzi.com/2025/08/29/pictures-not-photos-w...
"and the 2x telephoto has an updated photonic engine, which now uses machine learning to capture the lifelike details of her hair and the vibrant color of her jacket"
"like the 2x telephoto, the 8x also utilizes the updated photonic engine, which integrates machine learning into even more parts of the image pipeline. we apply deep learning models for demosaicing"
That's very different from taking that final photo and then running it through generative AI to guess what objects are. Look at the images in that article. It made the stop sign into a perfectly circular shiny button. I've never seen artifacting like that on a photo before.
14 ProMax -> 17 Pro (roughly same size) have remarkably few tangible diffs.
Stronger CPU/GPU -> wouldn't notice. It's not a computing device for me
3x to 8x optical zoom and nice camera yeah would notice
I'm inclined to see Apple's M series chips as pretty substantial.
I don't know that phones need massive innovation right now.
I don't understand the Air model. It's cool, but just a different price point. The thickness of a device means nothing to me anymore, they're all close enough.
It also replaces the worst selling model of the four. The 15 plus and 16 plus models did not sell very well. The pro max is the top seller.
https://9to5mac.com/2025/01/22/this-iphone-16-model-got-sale...
Previously, the fourth iphone was the mini, which did not sell well in the 13 series:
https://www.macrumors.com/2022/04/21/iphone-13-mini-unpopula...
It's a pretty good problem to have.
Almost all of them complain about the device getting hot, batteries being short lived (even when replaced) and apps being sluggish.
Figuratively, not literally. Otherwise I agree.
No comments yet
For me, and a lot of people, we get a new phone every 2 years and hand the old one down to family. I've got 3 kids and 4 iPhones in service that get handed down every 2 years. Equivalent in the UK of about $80 a month to run 4 iphones including phone service contracts is pretty cheap.
This is a very subtle point to try and get across, because it’s scattered across 1 million different design decisions. For example, since the beginning of iPhone, I don’t have to remember to save anything, when I open an app it usually remembers whatever state I need if applicable. Android has moved this direction, but iOS was always that way. Likewise, I do very little customization to my phone other than rearranging icons or changing the wallpaper.
I don’t want to think about the security implications of all the different permission grants when I install an app. iPhone apps ask me for a permission in context, and I can decide at that moment whether or not I want to share my photos or whatever.
Again, I gave two examples, but the thinking behind this is pervasive in the operating system. There just are not many sharp edges.
I am happy living in my walled garden, and I am generally satisfied with the capabilities that the phone gives to me. I am scared of apps because they are potential vehicles for malware, and Apple has a much better track record there than android, much less rooted android.
[0] https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Purism_Librem5_(purism-li...
[1] https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Sxmo
[2] https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Plasma_Mobile
iPhone 17
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45186023
iPhone Air
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45186015
iPhone 17 Pro and iPhone 17 Pro Max
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45186044
Is the iPhone 17 supposed to be the bottom-of-the-line now, or the 16e?
I have a mirrorless camera if I want to shoot telephoto. That has 375mm reach at the long end on proper glass with no ML crap.
Wtf??
I looked it up, and it turns out you're right. Both the iPhone 17 and the iPhone Air use USB2.
USB3 was introduced in 2008 (!!!). That is 17 years ago.
I already wasn't interested in this tech, to be fair, but I've had to support family phones synchronizing/backing up over the cable, and even at full theoretical speed for the transfer, we're talking over an hour vs just under 7 minutes. Which, considering the flash most likely suppports the read in under a minute, is crazy.
Apple seems stuck in a mentality of subsidized phones, which might still be how the US does it, but it makes their product unreasonably expensive in other parts of the world. I can accept that Apple can't do a $200 phone, but that this point I'd be happy with a $500 phone.
You'd really need to compare to average salary or purchasing power instead.
Average salary 2007: $40,405.48; 2023: $66,621.80.
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/awidevelop.html
AT&T most year offers me a free!* iPhone pro every couple years now so it has actually gone way down.
At least here in Poland, the base model is ~20% cheaper than the iPhone 11 at release, inflation-adjusted.
Which is not a $500 phone, but a $600 phone. Take that as you will.
I'd be interested to know their logic. It obviously hasn't caused them too many problems, revenue-wise.
Just don't say the "tariff" word...
> The company has refined the design, added heart rate sensing, improved active noise cancellation (ANC), delivered live translation and more. And most importantly, it did so without increasing the price.
https://www.engadget.com/audio/headphones/apple-airpods-pro-...
According to the CNBC live page, the iPhone 16 Pro started at $999, and the iPhone 17 Pro will start at $1099.
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/09/09/live-updates-apple-event-iph...
They essentially kept the pricing but bumped the lowest storage tier.