So what is their monetization model? What can one expect from this product or company in the future? Can't find answers on their About page: https://zen-browser.app/about/
runjake · 1m ago
I think you posted the answer to your own question. They don't appear to be a company. They request donations, and the code is open source.
> We are simply a group of developers and designers who care about your experience on the web.
cycomanic · 3h ago
It's weird how people always complain about lack of easy profile switching in Firefox. If one tells them that what they are really looking for is containers, they dismiss containers, but then proceed to complain that profiles don't have the same features. If you want sync across browser instances, manage them with one Firefox account... You really want containers not profiles.
heatmiser · 3h ago
I want both ;D I want profiles to have different partitions of plugins and browser configurations. I want containers to partition my browsing data. I want my Mozilla account to sync my browser history across all my profiles.
I hope they don't get rid of `about:profiles` which is perfect for anything I wanted to do with profiles in the last decade.
Incipient · 3h ago
As a contractor, this is absolutely critical for me, and one reason I still use edge (along with edge syncing with client ad accounts).
williamscales · 3h ago
In my recollection, Firefox used to ask you which profile you wanted to use on launch. I don't think I've seen that in years.
precompute · 29m ago
IIRC you can use the -p flag to open that menu on launch. It also opens when you haven't set a default profile. And it's possible to access other profiles via about:profiles.
birn559 · 3h ago
You can decide if you want to get asked at startup.
dspillett · 3h ago
When I want that sort of separation, which I do between work and play, I run browsers (and everything else) as different users. That works with any browser and I don't even have to worry about bugs in profile or container separation, and it reduces (though of course didn't remove) the chance of idiot here using the wrong instance for the wrong use. Heck, where possible I even use a separate machine. DayJob provide a PC on the office that I remote into (via VPN+RDC) for work purposes, so the contact point between that work and everything else is minimal (in fact my main desktop is a VM I "remote" into, I only use the base metal when I take have too which is usually things unhappy running that way (Bambu Studio and games, which do not like the lack of faf free access to the GPU)). You can still access everything from one machine, or even have the different users instances on the same desktop (this does reduce the barriers a touch though).
The only real cost is that running things this way eats more memory, but I've not experienced OOM issues for years away from deliberately small VMs (for testing or small sever tasks) that turned out to be too small.
codepoet80 · 3h ago
Agreed. Containers are the reason I use Firefox -- they are a much better fit than profiles. But I've not been able to successfully communicate that to Chrome users. Its like their mental model is stuck, and they can't grasp the differences.
reddit_clone · 2h ago
Yep. Containers are great. But haven't seen anyone else using it near me though.
One feature I was missing from Chrome was Tab Groups. But recently (I don't know when it started) the feature showed up in FireFox too :-)
pxoe · 3h ago
Maybe you just don't understand the difference between containers and profiles, or what is it about profiles that's useful and more useful in some cases over containers. For one, it's impossible to have separate extensions with containers. That alone is already a deal breaker, and there are many more differences. Profiles are useful when you want to have things to be actually separate, not just pretending like they are while they're all cluttered in the same profile. It's also about more completely eliminating risk of having something where it doesn't belong.
It's kinda tiresome to see containers get peddled over and over as a "solution", when they're severely limited in what they offer compared to profiles. One feature set and clunky interface doesn't even get close to the use cases people have for profiles. It's not a solution.
quesera · 2h ago
So use profiles for what profiles are good at, and containers for what containers are good at. This works well for me.
I have a work profile with several containers inside, so that I can be logged into, e.g. GitHub and AWS, with multiple accounts at the same time.
I also have a primary personal profile, with a few containers primarily for cookie pollution separation.
I've never struggled with the "Profiles have bad UX" complaint, because I created a few different launchers for Firefox: work, personal, (a few others for special purposes like retail sites), and a default profile that launches the profile manager dialog at startup so I can select from a few dozen less-frequently-used (sometimes single-purpose) profiles. I like to keep separate things separated.
This took 20 minutes to set up, 15+ years ago(?) and has been perfectly convenient for me, but I've also recently read that Mozilla is working to improve profile switching.
pxoe · 1h ago
>use profiles for what profiles are good at
This is what I'm saying and what people who recommend containers as a "replacement" for profiles sorely miss.
>20 minutes to set up
Meanwhile on Chrome this just worked out of the box and didn't have UI that's been abandoned for a decade.
quesera · 9m ago
Selecting a profile at launch has never been a problem in Firefox. Switching to a different profile in a running browser is prettier in Chrome though, sure.
The bigger problem for me is that (at least when I last tested Chrome profiles -- it's been a while), there was some browser config that was shared between profiles. Maybe extensions? I don't recall.
This was unexpected and undesired, so I went back to Firefox.
felixding · 3h ago
Meanwhile, it’s not weird that people think what other people actually want are weird.
Semaphor · 4h ago
I tried Zen for a while (1-2 months). It certainly has some cool features. But in the end, I returned to Vanilla FF and installed Sideberry [0] with custom userChrome.css [1]. It gets me 99% of what I used with Zen (tree tabs, workspaces), but without annoyances/anti-features (inconvenient url bar for editing, frequent UI changes, cute animations that ignore prefer-reduced-motion, performance, security worries etc.).
I’m relatively happy with my setup [2] now, what I miss most from Zen would be the 2-level pinned tabs (pinned per workspace, and globally pinned), and the design of globals pins (instead of a line on the side as in [2], it’s a grid at the top for Zen), but not even close to enough that I’d want to return.
strange Spotify works for me in Zen out out of the box on the Flatpak version.
flashblaze · 3h ago
Only affects Mac and Windows
vinnymac · 4h ago
I did almost the same thing about 9 months ago. I am rooting for Zen despite currently maining with Firefox.
I have to have all the browsers and nightlies installed anyways, so I might as well personalize it to work best for my needs.
I imagine not everyone is like us, and something like Zen being zero config is a big deal.
eviks · 1h ago
> way; it was superpowered with keyboard shortcuts that just made sense
No, that's under-powered.
Powered is when you can define multiple simple custom shortcuts (as far as I understand, at least Zen allows 1 shortcut change for some commands (unlike 0 in the dumb FF), so halfway there, not sure about Arc).
Super powered is when you can add key sequences and keys without modifiers depending on context in addition to a simple shortcuts.
Uberpowered would be the equivalent of QMK within the app (tap vs hold, home row mods left vs right alt, all 4 modifiers, etc etc), but when you can have conditions based on app contexts and dynamic user defined conditions (eg, in the simplest way, have vim-like modal editing in text fields with word jumps and single key navigation outside).
While uberpowered apps are unicorns, among relatively known browsers think only Vivaldi has has power
> Firefox remains the gold standard for user-first browsing.
What's gold about poor customization (no keybind, but also changing UI is cumbersome) and bad defaults?
> why isn’t it Firefox?
Oh, why indeed! Something about lack of incentives to innovate of even listen to users much when you're a big company financed by "ulterior" sources
grim_io · 4h ago
What does it even mean to be all-in on a browser?
You can switch any time, multiple times per day even.
eviks · 1h ago
No, not if you are "all in" and spend enough time customizing it or getting used to the UI/features uniquely available to a specific browser.
You won't be able to switch multiple times a day without noticing a lot of friction as you common workflows break down
at-fates-hands · 10m ago
In my role I have to do a lot of testing on different browsers so the least amount of friction is little to no customization, the only plugins are the ones I need for testing and nothing else.
When I was a developer, I fell into the trap of trying to customize everything, only to have to keep doing it once a new browser or extension came out. I gave up trying to get something exactly the way I wanted it.
I use as close to stock as possible in order to avoid the kind of friction you're talking about.
stronglikedan · 3h ago
Right? I use Chrome for personal because it just syncs well with my phone. I use FF for business because it's a bit clunkier than Chrome but still acceptable, and more importantly, completely separate. I use Edge to run one off webapps here and there, where I don't want the window previews to appear and clutter things up when hovering over one of the other browsers in the task bar.
NoGravitas · 3h ago
And the nice thing for me with Zen is that switching between Zen and Firefox is even lower cost, because they sync with each other.
mantra2 · 3h ago
Because “Lately I use Zen” isn’t as catchy of a title.
layer8 · 34m ago
To be all-in on a specific browser means exactly that you deliberately don’t switch to different ones.
jhaile · 3h ago
To be fair I haven't tried Zen, but Arc still works well. I don't particularly need any new features - so as long as they continue to keep up with timely security patches and Chromium updates I'll probably keep using it. Also - as a developer I would prefer using a Chromium-based browser since it's the most common one used.
I tried Dia a few weeks back and was disappointed in its sidebar and profile features.
schnable · 45m ago
Agree, unfortunately Chromium is one of the killer features of Arc.
sam1r · 25m ago
>>> added AI to a browser framework that isn’t a million miles away from stock Chrome.
Wow, very well put. I love how mobile browsers are not even in the conversation.
ewf · 19m ago
feels like people keep wanting more and more from the browser. I just want it to stay out the way. Lightweight, good dev tools, good privacy settings.
If you go through the issues and the discussions, linked in the article that you yourself linked, you'll see that the devs addressed the backdoor and privacy issues.
The devs did address the backdoor and privacy issues.
evo_9 · 54m ago
Same, I'm all in, but I came from Arc so it was the easy switch to FF for me. So far, it's been pretty solid, with steady improvements.
xnx · 4h ago
We're past the point were small aesthetic changes like this make a meaningful difference in browsers.
In 2025 a browser that really acts as a user agent needs to do much more at the content level: ad blocking, content rewriting (clickbait headlines, etc.), content aggregation and summarization, deceptive content idenification, automatic reader-mode, etc.
acheron · 2h ago
The extent that we need so many lines of defense versus web developers is astonishing.
Congrats to everyone working to make the Internet worse; you’ve had a very successful couple of decades.
eviks · 1h ago
In 2025 we still largely fail at the very basics of good UI in many apps, browsers included, so we're nowhere near the point where these extra features you describe are the only way to make a meaningful difference
xnx · 1h ago
Genuinely curious about where browser UI is falling short. I often run Chrome fullscreen, so there's barely any visible UI at all.
XorNot · 3h ago
Man that really hits me for a killer app for LLMs: headline identification and summarization. Rewrite "could X be Y?" headlines with the answer.
thewebguyd · 3h ago
Safari's reader mode summaries aren't too bad for this. They are usually short, under a paragraph. It'd be nice if you could "3D touch" the headline to just load that summary in the little preview window instead of having to click, and then open in reader mode though.
I can see that being a really nice built-in browser feature, to load a summary on hover over a link.
aclatuts · 4h ago
I still really like the Arc browser. Other browsers are still missing some of the small UI/UX things Arc has.
tummler · 3h ago
Oh, to be new to Zen again. That lovely honeymoon phase. Give it a few weeks/months. Bugs, random UI changes, odd development priorities. I wanted to love it, I really did.
NoGravitas · 3h ago
I've been using it for maybe 6 months now, and I'm still enjoying it. The only things that I couldn't get by properly configuring an up-to-date Firefox (with userChrome.css) are compact mode, workspaces, and peek, though, so it wouldn't take too many annoyances to send me back to Firefox.
UI isn't the only thing zen does, but anything else I just adjusted myself + some custom uBlock Origin filters and I'm good to go.
NikxDa · 4h ago
Zen still has some annoying shortcomings, like missing Widevine DRM or the dev tools opening up annoyingly slow. The potential is there, but it wasn't quite daily drivable as a developer for me just yet as of a few weeks ago.
Once it gets there, I too will finally leave Arc behind. Until then, while it is on life support, Arc actually works. I really wish The Browser Company would just own up to their fuck up and revive it.
elashri · 3h ago
Regarding the DRM support, they are trying to get Widevine license from Google [1] but for some reason Google approval process is taking too long.
> Mozilla should take this team, absorb it, and use it to help navigate the future of their flagship browser for end users.
No. Mozilla's leadership would ruin it, too.
Firefox by itself is great technology. That's not the problem. The Mozilla leadership, incentives, and org structure is the problem.
bravetraveler · 4h ago
Never go all-in
joey486DX4 · 3h ago
I liked Zen, but there was a time when every new update introduced a new behavior. Weird stuff like how the URL bar is handled for new tabs, or how videos are played. It was unexpected and annoying. I don't know if they are over this phase. I went back to Firefox.
willi59549879 · 3h ago
that annoyed me too. you set the browser up how you want it and in the next update it works in a different way.
gbrindisi · 3h ago
I can't use Google Meet on firefox/zen, I tried every setting combination I could find but the video call quality is still not comparable to chromium based browsers, so at work I reluctantly switched to Vivaldi.
If you figure this out please let me know!
mariusor · 3h ago
I think it's widely speculated that Google sabotages how their own products work in Firefox. I don't know if there is actual evidence to support that though.
tapoxi · 3h ago
I've been using Zen for a few months after I lost faith in Arc/The Browser Company.
I like the workflow of swiping between profiles, vertical tabs and pinned favorites. I haven't been able to find a browser that works just like that.
I'd prefer to use Chromium over Firefox though, that's the only downside. I keep running into weird Firefox specific issues. Passkeys didn't work properly (and still won't support TouchID), pages don't render correctly, etc.
Alifatisk · 2h ago
Also switched to Zen on all my devices (except ios sadly). Been a blast
ebiester · 3h ago
Last time I tried it, I couldn't figure out how to configure the container tabs. Has that become easier?
ProfessorZoom · 4h ago
everytime i go all in a browser, including when i went all in on zen, eventually i go back to regular chrome. every single time
x3n0ph3n3 · 3h ago
Is there support for uBlock on Zen? I refuse to use a browser without it.
NoGravitas · 3h ago
It supports all the extensions desktop Firefox supports.
pokechamp · 3h ago
I used zen. it used all my cpu. I stopped using zen.
grigio · 4h ago
Brave is faster and the features are similar
NikxDa · 4h ago
Brave however is riddled with Crypto and AI crap. It doesn't have any useable support for multiple profiles, too: last time I tried it, it would end up showing various errors on every startup and you couldn't have two profiles in the same window.
GlitchRider47 · 3h ago
Hamburger menu > more tools > add new profile
Once you have more than one profile, you'll see the switcher in the top right.
Also, turn off all crypto/ai stuff in settings. I did and I never see it.
It's really not that much.
zelphirkalt · 34m ago
I just start Librewolf with -P and keep profiles in separate windows. Easy, already fully supported, and allows things like different themes to highlight the fact I am using different profiles.
ochronus · 4h ago
What does "riddled with Crypto and AI crap" mean here?
nusl · 3h ago
If you download Brave and run it you'll see; many pop-ups and random things in the UI you don't want
ochronus · 3h ago
I've been running it for years; I see none of what you mention. I turned off a couple of settings (literally took <5 minutes) and I don't see anything crypto or AI related anymore.
mantra2 · 3h ago
Same. I’ve been using it exclusively on macOS and iOS for a few years now. When you first open it they do show you all those features but as ochronous said you can completely disable them. If they forced crypto and AI on me I’d be out in a flash.
ochronus · 3h ago
To me, any other browser's initial "hello" screens are similarly "annoying", including Firefox. It's just a setup hurdle one needs to get over.
> We are simply a group of developers and designers who care about your experience on the web.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/profile-management
The only real cost is that running things this way eats more memory, but I've not experienced OOM issues for years away from deliberately small VMs (for testing or small sever tasks) that turned out to be too small.
One feature I was missing from Chrome was Tab Groups. But recently (I don't know when it started) the feature showed up in FireFox too :-)
It's kinda tiresome to see containers get peddled over and over as a "solution", when they're severely limited in what they offer compared to profiles. One feature set and clunky interface doesn't even get close to the use cases people have for profiles. It's not a solution.
I have a work profile with several containers inside, so that I can be logged into, e.g. GitHub and AWS, with multiple accounts at the same time.
I also have a primary personal profile, with a few containers primarily for cookie pollution separation.
I've never struggled with the "Profiles have bad UX" complaint, because I created a few different launchers for Firefox: work, personal, (a few others for special purposes like retail sites), and a default profile that launches the profile manager dialog at startup so I can select from a few dozen less-frequently-used (sometimes single-purpose) profiles. I like to keep separate things separated.
This took 20 minutes to set up, 15+ years ago(?) and has been perfectly convenient for me, but I've also recently read that Mozilla is working to improve profile switching.
This is what I'm saying and what people who recommend containers as a "replacement" for profiles sorely miss.
>20 minutes to set up
Meanwhile on Chrome this just worked out of the box and didn't have UI that's been abandoned for a decade.
The bigger problem for me is that (at least when I last tested Chrome profiles -- it's been a while), there was some browser config that was shared between profiles. Maybe extensions? I don't recall.
This was unexpected and undesired, so I went back to Firefox.
I’m relatively happy with my setup [2] now, what I miss most from Zen would be the 2-level pinned tabs (pinned per workspace, and globally pinned), and the design of globals pins (instead of a line on the side as in [2], it’s a grid at the top for Zen), but not even close to enough that I’d want to return.
[0]: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/sidebery/
[1]: https://github.com/mbnuqw/sidebery/wiki/Firefox-Styles-Snipp...
[2]: https://i.imgur.com/v9a6VRw.png
I have to have all the browsers and nightlies installed anyways, so I might as well personalize it to work best for my needs.
I imagine not everyone is like us, and something like Zen being zero config is a big deal.
No, that's under-powered.
Powered is when you can define multiple simple custom shortcuts (as far as I understand, at least Zen allows 1 shortcut change for some commands (unlike 0 in the dumb FF), so halfway there, not sure about Arc).
Super powered is when you can add key sequences and keys without modifiers depending on context in addition to a simple shortcuts.
Uberpowered would be the equivalent of QMK within the app (tap vs hold, home row mods left vs right alt, all 4 modifiers, etc etc), but when you can have conditions based on app contexts and dynamic user defined conditions (eg, in the simplest way, have vim-like modal editing in text fields with word jumps and single key navigation outside).
While uberpowered apps are unicorns, among relatively known browsers think only Vivaldi has has power
> Firefox remains the gold standard for user-first browsing.
What's gold about poor customization (no keybind, but also changing UI is cumbersome) and bad defaults?
> why isn’t it Firefox?
Oh, why indeed! Something about lack of incentives to innovate of even listen to users much when you're a big company financed by "ulterior" sources
You can switch any time, multiple times per day even.
You won't be able to switch multiple times a day without noticing a lot of friction as you common workflows break down
When I was a developer, I fell into the trap of trying to customize everything, only to have to keep doing it once a new browser or extension came out. I gave up trying to get something exactly the way I wanted it.
I use as close to stock as possible in order to avoid the kind of friction you're talking about.
I tried Dia a few weeks back and was disappointed in its sidebar and profile features.
Wow, very well put. I love how mobile browsers are not even in the conversation.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43443494
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43443494
Is it safe enough now?
Also, anyone have an update on Ladybird? Looks like its dev is still going strong, but I haven’t been watching it carefully.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44765292
In 2025 a browser that really acts as a user agent needs to do much more at the content level: ad blocking, content rewriting (clickbait headlines, etc.), content aggregation and summarization, deceptive content idenification, automatic reader-mode, etc.
Congrats to everyone working to make the Internet worse; you’ve had a very successful couple of decades.
I can see that being a really nice built-in browser feature, to load a summary on hover over a link.
UI isn't the only thing zen does, but anything else I just adjusted myself + some custom uBlock Origin filters and I'm good to go.
Once it gets there, I too will finally leave Arc behind. Until then, while it is on life support, Arc actually works. I really wish The Browser Company would just own up to their fuck up and revive it.
[1] https://docs.zen-browser.app/faq#why-cant-zen-browser-play-d...
No. Mozilla's leadership would ruin it, too.
Firefox by itself is great technology. That's not the problem. The Mozilla leadership, incentives, and org structure is the problem.
If you figure this out please let me know!
I like the workflow of swiping between profiles, vertical tabs and pinned favorites. I haven't been able to find a browser that works just like that.
I'd prefer to use Chromium over Firefox though, that's the only downside. I keep running into weird Firefox specific issues. Passkeys didn't work properly (and still won't support TouchID), pages don't render correctly, etc.
Once you have more than one profile, you'll see the switcher in the top right.
Also, turn off all crypto/ai stuff in settings. I did and I never see it.
It's really not that much.