How many democratic countries have never had some kind of involvement in imperialism, slavery, monarchy, starting wars, etc? How many are still doing it?
I don’t really think that individuals need to feel especially bad for getting work where there’s work.
Some jobs just inherently involve asshole clients. If your job is to stitch the leather interiors for Rolls Royce, 100% of your customers are assholes. I don’t think that means you should stop doing that job and flip burgers instead.
engineer_22 · 3h ago
It's my belief that architects such as our author have far too much free time on their hands.
SanjayMehta · 6h ago
No you don’t. Just mind your own business. Leave them alone and hope they do the same.
0rzech · 5h ago
> Leave them alone
Well, this is what the article proposes to architects indeed.
ath3nd · 5h ago
Yes he does. Helping an authoritarian regime known for oppression and killing its dissidents is not ethical.
And sure as hell we would not mind our business, standing aside when evil is being done makes you participate in evil. Saudi Arabia needs to be named and shamed and boycotted, the same way Russia and Israel currently are.
thomassmith65 · 5h ago
What would a boycott against Saudi Arabia actually accomplish?
The quickest path to a Saudi Arabia that doesn't abuse human rights is probably the path they're already on.
user____name · 3h ago
Perhaps this is true. But history is also littered with leaders that want to do The Right Thing, but end up entrapped in the power dynamics of the system. The more authoritarian a regime the more it resembles a game of thrones.
Leaders like Assad and Kim Jung Un promised reforms but ended up ruling much like their fathers before them. People are quick to dismiss such early promises as Machiavellian posing but I believe the issues are more systemic. They end up as authoritarians because thats the only way for them and their kin to remain safe in the face of opposition. The ruling elites are comfortable in their local optimum and moving out of it will be politically chaotic. The status quo for them is the least worst choice.
I would not be too quick in expecting change from these regimes is I guess what I'm trying to say. They're not always as firmly established as they might seem.
TheOtherHobbes · 5h ago
What will ignoring climate change actually accomplish?
There is "Not my problem" here, because one or way another it will be your problem within ten years, maybe five.
And for some people here and reading this, within a few months.
Your choices about what to work now on affect your future, in a very direct, literal, potentially fatal way.
That's the point.
thomassmith65 · 4h ago
MBS already wants to modernize and liberalize Saudi Arabia. This is for economic reasons, and, I would guess, also because his macabre reputation is a drag when he's partying with his Western friends.
Any boycott that would get Saudi Arabia more humane government would be a good boycott. It just seems more likely that sanctions would wreck their economy and lead to a religious fanatic taking over.
victorbjorklund · 3h ago
No, he does want to turn saudi arabia into a secular democracy. He is just doing the bare minimal in order to gain legitimacy and investments/business. He is not a believer in human rights, democracy and religious freedom. He is literally a dictator and a murder.
sam_lowry_ · 4h ago
Mohammed bin Salman? He is probably a complex man, but by accident of history the only thing we know about him is the killing of Khashoggi and the gnarly details of the body disposal process.
thomassmith65 · 4h ago
That's the one, unfortunately.
In Saudi Arabia, if you're not someone he wants to torture or kill, you can enjoy increased religious freedoms, gender equality, and international ties.
It's a bit like Iran before the revolution: the Shah was liberalizing and modernizing his nation, while at the same using SAVAK to torture his opposition.
cholantesh · 6m ago
>the Shah was liberalizing and modernizing his nation
Quaint revisionism; in fact Mossadegh was already actually liberalizing and modernizing the nation while Pahlavi was turning it into a US/UK client state.
ath3nd · 3h ago
> In Saudi Arabia, if you're not someone he wants to torture or kill, you can enjoy increased religious freedoms, gender equality, and international ties.
Increased compared to taliban rule? Wow, thanks so much to the benevolent dictator for allowing a woman to go out without a male companion without being stoned. And thank the benevolent dictator for not having an interest in me specially. All praise the guy who could dismember many people but chooses to do that only to a couple, and who could imprison many, but does it mostly to his family and whoever he pleases.
dangus · 3h ago
If your job is to design buildings, choosing which country to design it for will have no effect on climate change.
A building is a building. If you’re pouring concrete you’re impacting the climate.
This is like saying you’d rather build automobiles in the US instead of China. Either way you’re building an automobile.
The ideology of the government has very little to do with whether the thing you’re doing is impacting climate change.
Architects who want to reduce carbon emissions need to switch professions entirely.
SanjayMehta · 2h ago
Why? Is this the new version of the WMB?
ath3nd · 2h ago
Cause chopping journalists into pieces is evil, same as attacking your political enemies like what all the douche dictators like MBS, Trump, Putin, Stalin, Netanyahu and many other evil people do.
We are calling this out. What is wrong with that?
v5v3 · 5h ago
Western countries are just as evil, just much better at hiding it.
DanielVZ · 5h ago
I don’t see political dissidents being killed left and right in my western country. I don’t see minorities being arrested and killed just for being different in my country. I don’t see blatant forced labor being the norm in my country. We do have dark moments in our history, and we do have our own issues at home (not the US btw), but it’s nowhere near what’s happening in Saudi Arabia so don’t try to play to tie (“jugar al empate” as we say here).
v5v3 · 2h ago
Why would you see any political dissidents been killed or imprisoned unlawfully?
If the media won't tell you, how will you find out?
dangus · 2h ago
If you’re speaking Spanish and using that football-inspired phrase you’re almost certainly in a country with a highly problematic past if not present.
SanjayMehta · 2h ago
You don’t see it because your media is corrupt.
ath3nd · 34m ago
True, and we don't see it in Saudi because their media is either owned by the dictatorship or chopped to pieces.
graemep · 5h ago
There are certainly evil things in the west but nothing to compare with things like cutting people's heads off for having gay sex or following the wrong religion or punishing rape victims.
You do not realise how privileged people in the west are - as someone who has lived inn a country that was bad at the time (nothing like Saudi Arabia but things such as journalists being disappeared and a nasty civil war) westerners who say "oh, its just the same" make me really just look delusional and completely unaware of their privilege.
jbm · 5h ago
We literally have a western country opening fire on unarmed people queuing for food in the same region. It's literally on the front page right now. Prosecutors for those crimes have had their accounts frozen by Microsoft.
So yeah, no. Statements about human rights have no credibility.
sthkr · 5h ago
The last thing anyone needs advice about human rights is from the west. The invasions and mass murders in wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Iran, Libya. Still remember that pr*ck Colin Powell showing that vial to justify that invasion of Iraq. The world's worst murderers have been the British, Dutch, Belgian, French, Spanish and American empires throughout history. The worst genocide in history was committed by Belgium in Congo where they killed millions.
Lol no one gets their head cut off for gay sex or wrong religion. Capital punishment is only for murder, terrorism, rape and drug smugglers. The Saudi Government is quite liberal there. It's your own Saudi families that will ostracize you based on their own decisions.
You keep talking about dissidents. I still remember Obama and his Arab spring and how thousands died because of him. The west like to implant people to create internal conflicts inside countries. It's not going to work in the Gulf countries as all the citizens know how the Americans thrive on instigating conflict. That journalist just wanted to create anarchy. I still remember the terrorist attacks at my American school and other cities in Saudi Arabia during 2004 - 2005. I trust the police and government to eradicate all the extremist and outside threats to the country and keep everyone safe. They've basically cleaned out all the extremism in these past 20 years from the country. The Americans also enjoyed keeping the Saudis and Iranians fighting until the Chinese stepped in and created peace between these two countries.
Americans need to worry about their own backyard with their crap healthcare, poverty, homelessness, illegals, gun violence etc. Saudi Arabia isn't perfect, but Saudi citizens have to pay no income taxes, get free universal healthcare, free education, free university education, all government paid scholarships for universities abroad (tuition, travel & living), first priority in all jobs, social security support for low income citizens, interest free mortgages, etc. Plus Saudi Arabia long with the other Gulf countries like UAE & Qatar are some of the safest countries. All illegals arrested and deported every month, low crime rates, no African/Asian Refugee illegal drunk junkies roaming the streets (like Europe/America), no homeless tents, no gun violence etc.
The Gulf countries along with Japan, South Korea, Singapore and China know how to keep their countries safe, clean and well. Look at Europe & Scandinavia now with all the illegals running around.
mpalmer · 1h ago
Your country, at least to the extent you seem to claim it as such, only started letting its women drive in 2018. As recently as 2011 there was no law prohibiting violence against women. So that's one way of keeping the crime rate low, I guess.
If someone were paying you to defend the Saudi state in online forums, you would probably go to the trouble of giving your posts at least a tiny bit of nuance.
dgfl · 3h ago
I would rather have self expression than draconian laws. All Western European countries are as safe as they need to be.
leosanchez · 4h ago
> Plus Saudi Arabia long with the other Gulf countries like UAE & Qatar are some of the safest countries.
Do legal immigrants get to keep their passports?
sthkr · 4h ago
Yes, all foreign workers get to keep their passports while working there. There were issues 20 years ago with certain companies and sponsors keeping the passports of their employees. It's always been illegal to do that and doesn't happen. The foreign worker comes on their temporary work visa and should leave before their work visa expires. Thousands of foreign skilled engineers, doctors, nurses, accountants, scientists, teachers etc. work in Saudi Arabia. Everyone keeps their passports and it's the company that hires them and renews their visa yearly if they want to keep them in their employment.
msgodel · 5h ago
Foreign states are often the way they are because their population prefers that. People shouldn't get so spun up about it. If those people came here they'd probably just recreate most of the things they do there.
graemep · 5h ago
> Foreign states are often the way they are because their population prefers that.
1. That does not make it ethical. There was a time when the majority of people in the US thought it right to treat black people as inferior. Did that make it right?
2. This stuff is at its worst in counties where the population has no chance to express their preference.
3. How do you know what people's preferences are in "foreign states"? Did you go there and ask a representative sample of people after convincing them they could trust you enough to tell you their real views?
Its amazing how people's expressed preferences match their governments if they will be chucked in jail or murdered if they disagree, and their access to information is limited to what the government things they should know.
msgodel · 5h ago
I'm really not convinced representation changes as much as people think it does.
ramon156 · 5h ago
That's a weird way of looking at it. You do know populations get manipulated no? Yes, even the west
mpalmer · 3h ago
Where exactly do you think "here" is?
pelagicAustral · 5h ago
I don't think they hide it at all... I think we just don't see governments in the West with the same eyes, sort of like the same effect that happens when watching Vic Mackey or Tony Soprano, and rooting for them fully knowing how morally depleted they are as humans.
spwa4 · 4h ago
This is moral absolutist thinking. Either you're 100% good or 100% evil and there is nothing in between.
Under that thinking, of course, everyone (except, of course, the speaker and friends) is evil and can be accused and held responsible, for their "moral failings".
Oh and you ESPECIALLY don't get to defend anyone with practical arguments, for example, that it is a lot harder for a government that does not have tons and tons of (to them) free natural resources money, like Saudi Arabia (they don't even extract it themselves) to avoid moral problems, and problems in general than it is for, say America. That a country that has to do things itself, just to make a random example, defend it's shores against drugs (and shoot at people who try to ...) has to make a lot of moral compromises (like, perhaps, shooting at criminals trying to flee in a boat) that Saudi Arabia doesn't have to make.
Many countries, like Saudi Arabia, always get a free pass, because "you can't expect them to adhere to ..." when in fact it would be SO much easier for them to have a perfect human rights record, no poverty, extremely liberal societies, ... than it is for the US (because incomes in Saudi Arabia largely does not derive from having Saudi Arabians work, so there's no need to force them to. America shoots at people so Saudi Arabia can export it's oil, ...)
The fact is most non-Western governments (like Saudi Arabia, but they're middle of the boat at best in evilness) don't have the interests of people in mind at all. Regardless if "people" means Saudi Arabian people, people who live in Saudi Arabia including foreignors, or women, or children for that matter. AT BEST, they are like Western companies, at worst ... you can imagine. That a government with the financial means of Saudi Arabia fails here should be 10x worse than similar failings on, for example the US's part (but same for, say, Denmark). But the root cause is simple: the Saudi government is not there to benefit the people there, it benefits itself only.
In other words: these dictatorships are MUCH worse and have MUCH more serious moral failings than the US.
sthkr · 4h ago
Lol Saudi Arabia is for Saudi citizens. All foreigners are on temporary 3/6/12 month work visas that are renewed each year. We don't give citizenships to foreigners. We don't need and don't want permanent immigration from foreigners in the country. Look at how Japan and South Korea are thriving. And we certainly don't need advice about human rights from genocide supporting western countries. The same America that has given Israel $30 billion in the last few years to flatten Palestine and kill almost a 100,000 people. You keep talking about dissidents. The government keeps the country safe from terrorism, gun violence, criminals, religious extremists etc. Saudi Arabia and the Gulf countries are some of the safest places to live along with Japan, Singapore and South Korea. No one can cares about Western comments on dissidents. Saudi Arabia is still very tribal and family oriented. Saudi Aramco is 98% Saudi Citizens and we extract all the oil ourselves. The Americans left long ago. Focus on your own backyard with your crap healthcare, poverty, homelessness, racial violence, gun violence, etc. There's no Saudi citizen living on the streets. Every single Saudi citizen have to pay no income taxes and gets free healthcare, free education, free university education, free scholarships abroad (tuition, travel, housing, person expenses covered), interest free mortgages, first priority in all jobs, and so many other benefits. The richest country in the world (America) spent trillions of dollars in wars across the Atlantic but has thousands of its citizens homeless on the streets.
Saudi Arabia has 20 million Saudi citizens and they're the only priority and future of the country that has surpassed a GDP of $1 trillion.
ath3nd · 3h ago
Bla bla, human right violations, treating laborers as slaves and second hand people, killing political dissidents and throwing billions of oil dollars to whitewash the country's image.
Whatabouting the US doesn't mean Saudi Arabia's human rights violations suddenly vanish in thin air.
sthkr · 3h ago
Saud Arabia's first priority is just for Saudi citizens only. No laborer is a slave or forced at gunpoint to come work in our country. They pay themselves thousands of dollars in their foreign countries to come work in Saudi Arabia. Nobody forces them. Their work visa is either only for 3 months or 6 months or 12 months. Then, they need to leave once the visa has expired. No one is forced to work in the country as a slave. You can choose to stay living in your own country. Lol political dissidents are turd implants from the Western countries designed to instigate anarchy in the country. It's never going to work anymore because the Gulf citizens themselves know how pathetic the Americans and the west are nowadays. Stop & STF trying to teach about human rights. The US and Europeans are responsible for the genocide of 100,000 in Palestine right now along with the millions in Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, Vietnam, and so many more. No one needs to whitewash anything. We are spending trillions for our country and the future of our citizens. All the big multi billion projects provide millions of jobs for Saudi citizens and foreigners. And they will continue to provide jobs and revenue for the country for generations to come. The US and the West isn't the bastion of amazing human rights after its support and financing of the current genocide in Palestine.
Saudi citizens are doing just fine and are being greatly supported and have a bright future with the Vision 2030 work happening so far. You worry about your shitty healthcare, gun violence, homelessness, high income taxes, crappy infrastructure, illegal drunks & junkies roaming the streets and other stuff. No one gives a crap about your lame accusations of human rights. You've historically been the biggest mass murders and genocides from killing off the natives in North America and Aborigines in Australia and the recent wars in the middle east. No one gives a crap about some fat old attention whore journalist here anymore. 70% of the Saudi citizen population is under 35 years old and we support the government to keeps the country and us safe from all outside terrorists and other threats.
ath3nd · 3h ago
> You've historically been the biggest mass murders and genocides from killing off the natives in North America and Aborigines in Australia and the recent wars in the middle east.
Absolutely true. And also responsible for the crusades, for the colonization of Africa, Australia and America, and the untold suffering of millions of non Europeans. Europeans also started both the world wars. Nobody is denying that. We know more about human rights violations than anyone else. Thats why we are calling out Saudi Arabia's, the same way I call Israel's genocide upon the Palestinian people.
> No one gives a crap about some fat old attention whore journalist here anymore.
Any normal human with a bit of empathy would decry a dictator killing a journalist and dismembering him like a coward. Also, wherever there a re human rights violations like in Israel, USA and Saudi Arabia, it's our moral duty to investigate further and dethrone the evildoers.
> Lol political dissidents are turd implants from the Western countries designed to instigate anarchy in the country
Ah, the old "everyone who disagrees with the government" is a foreign agent, let's detain them and maybe chop them to pieces. Putin did the same minus the chopping part. Trump is doing the same and trying to bring back Guantanamo. MBS just added the slice and dice for an extra flair.
> Saudi citizen population is under 35 years old and we support the government to keeps the country and us safe from all outside terrorists and other threats.
And whoever doesn't support the government, gets chopped to pieces?
victorbjorklund · 3h ago
tell us more about the journalists chopped up to pieces in the finish embassay by the finish government.
v5v3 · 12m ago
In the UK a MI5 worker was found in a holdall,which was in the bath and padlocked.
There was this chap called Julian Assange who was framed by the Swedish government and then involuntarily incarcerated in an embassy in London. Close enough?
ath3nd · 28m ago
The fact that the West persecuted Assange for exposing their crimes against humanity doesn't give right to Saudi Arabia to kill its journalists with impunity either. Surely crimes against humanity and violating human rights can be done by multiple governments, as Netanyahu's genocide against the Palestinians can coexist at the same time as MBS's chopping of journalists and illegal incarcerations.
ath3nd · 3h ago
Western countries support Israel in the genocide they do on Palestine, and violently quash protests against climate change or said genocide in Palestine. But at the same time we need to call out all evil, including the one happening in Saudi Arabia.
matthewdgreen · 3h ago
Western governments still allow you to post comments criticizing these things. But we’re on the knife edge of authoritarianism. A few more “everyone is equally bad” elections and that will be gone too.
https://web.archive.org/web/20241216122438if_/https://www.ar...
I don’t really think that individuals need to feel especially bad for getting work where there’s work.
Some jobs just inherently involve asshole clients. If your job is to stitch the leather interiors for Rolls Royce, 100% of your customers are assholes. I don’t think that means you should stop doing that job and flip burgers instead.
Well, this is what the article proposes to architects indeed.
And sure as hell we would not mind our business, standing aside when evil is being done makes you participate in evil. Saudi Arabia needs to be named and shamed and boycotted, the same way Russia and Israel currently are.
The quickest path to a Saudi Arabia that doesn't abuse human rights is probably the path they're already on.
Leaders like Assad and Kim Jung Un promised reforms but ended up ruling much like their fathers before them. People are quick to dismiss such early promises as Machiavellian posing but I believe the issues are more systemic. They end up as authoritarians because thats the only way for them and their kin to remain safe in the face of opposition. The ruling elites are comfortable in their local optimum and moving out of it will be politically chaotic. The status quo for them is the least worst choice.
I would not be too quick in expecting change from these regimes is I guess what I'm trying to say. They're not always as firmly established as they might seem.
There is "Not my problem" here, because one or way another it will be your problem within ten years, maybe five.
And for some people here and reading this, within a few months.
Your choices about what to work now on affect your future, in a very direct, literal, potentially fatal way.
That's the point.
Any boycott that would get Saudi Arabia more humane government would be a good boycott. It just seems more likely that sanctions would wreck their economy and lead to a religious fanatic taking over.
In Saudi Arabia, if you're not someone he wants to torture or kill, you can enjoy increased religious freedoms, gender equality, and international ties.
It's a bit like Iran before the revolution: the Shah was liberalizing and modernizing his nation, while at the same using SAVAK to torture his opposition.
Quaint revisionism; in fact Mossadegh was already actually liberalizing and modernizing the nation while Pahlavi was turning it into a US/UK client state.
Increased compared to taliban rule? Wow, thanks so much to the benevolent dictator for allowing a woman to go out without a male companion without being stoned. And thank the benevolent dictator for not having an interest in me specially. All praise the guy who could dismember many people but chooses to do that only to a couple, and who could imprison many, but does it mostly to his family and whoever he pleases.
A building is a building. If you’re pouring concrete you’re impacting the climate.
This is like saying you’d rather build automobiles in the US instead of China. Either way you’re building an automobile.
The ideology of the government has very little to do with whether the thing you’re doing is impacting climate change.
Architects who want to reduce carbon emissions need to switch professions entirely.
We are calling this out. What is wrong with that?
If the media won't tell you, how will you find out?
You do not realise how privileged people in the west are - as someone who has lived inn a country that was bad at the time (nothing like Saudi Arabia but things such as journalists being disappeared and a nasty civil war) westerners who say "oh, its just the same" make me really just look delusional and completely unaware of their privilege.
So yeah, no. Statements about human rights have no credibility.
Lol no one gets their head cut off for gay sex or wrong religion. Capital punishment is only for murder, terrorism, rape and drug smugglers. The Saudi Government is quite liberal there. It's your own Saudi families that will ostracize you based on their own decisions.
You keep talking about dissidents. I still remember Obama and his Arab spring and how thousands died because of him. The west like to implant people to create internal conflicts inside countries. It's not going to work in the Gulf countries as all the citizens know how the Americans thrive on instigating conflict. That journalist just wanted to create anarchy. I still remember the terrorist attacks at my American school and other cities in Saudi Arabia during 2004 - 2005. I trust the police and government to eradicate all the extremist and outside threats to the country and keep everyone safe. They've basically cleaned out all the extremism in these past 20 years from the country. The Americans also enjoyed keeping the Saudis and Iranians fighting until the Chinese stepped in and created peace between these two countries.
Americans need to worry about their own backyard with their crap healthcare, poverty, homelessness, illegals, gun violence etc. Saudi Arabia isn't perfect, but Saudi citizens have to pay no income taxes, get free universal healthcare, free education, free university education, all government paid scholarships for universities abroad (tuition, travel & living), first priority in all jobs, social security support for low income citizens, interest free mortgages, etc. Plus Saudi Arabia long with the other Gulf countries like UAE & Qatar are some of the safest countries. All illegals arrested and deported every month, low crime rates, no African/Asian Refugee illegal drunk junkies roaming the streets (like Europe/America), no homeless tents, no gun violence etc.
The Gulf countries along with Japan, South Korea, Singapore and China know how to keep their countries safe, clean and well. Look at Europe & Scandinavia now with all the illegals running around.
If someone were paying you to defend the Saudi state in online forums, you would probably go to the trouble of giving your posts at least a tiny bit of nuance.
Do legal immigrants get to keep their passports?
1. That does not make it ethical. There was a time when the majority of people in the US thought it right to treat black people as inferior. Did that make it right?
2. This stuff is at its worst in counties where the population has no chance to express their preference.
3. How do you know what people's preferences are in "foreign states"? Did you go there and ask a representative sample of people after convincing them they could trust you enough to tell you their real views?
Its amazing how people's expressed preferences match their governments if they will be chucked in jail or murdered if they disagree, and their access to information is limited to what the government things they should know.
Under that thinking, of course, everyone (except, of course, the speaker and friends) is evil and can be accused and held responsible, for their "moral failings".
Oh and you ESPECIALLY don't get to defend anyone with practical arguments, for example, that it is a lot harder for a government that does not have tons and tons of (to them) free natural resources money, like Saudi Arabia (they don't even extract it themselves) to avoid moral problems, and problems in general than it is for, say America. That a country that has to do things itself, just to make a random example, defend it's shores against drugs (and shoot at people who try to ...) has to make a lot of moral compromises (like, perhaps, shooting at criminals trying to flee in a boat) that Saudi Arabia doesn't have to make.
Many countries, like Saudi Arabia, always get a free pass, because "you can't expect them to adhere to ..." when in fact it would be SO much easier for them to have a perfect human rights record, no poverty, extremely liberal societies, ... than it is for the US (because incomes in Saudi Arabia largely does not derive from having Saudi Arabians work, so there's no need to force them to. America shoots at people so Saudi Arabia can export it's oil, ...)
The fact is most non-Western governments (like Saudi Arabia, but they're middle of the boat at best in evilness) don't have the interests of people in mind at all. Regardless if "people" means Saudi Arabian people, people who live in Saudi Arabia including foreignors, or women, or children for that matter. AT BEST, they are like Western companies, at worst ... you can imagine. That a government with the financial means of Saudi Arabia fails here should be 10x worse than similar failings on, for example the US's part (but same for, say, Denmark). But the root cause is simple: the Saudi government is not there to benefit the people there, it benefits itself only.
In other words: these dictatorships are MUCH worse and have MUCH more serious moral failings than the US.
Saudi Arabia has 20 million Saudi citizens and they're the only priority and future of the country that has surpassed a GDP of $1 trillion.
Whatabouting the US doesn't mean Saudi Arabia's human rights violations suddenly vanish in thin air.
Saudi citizens are doing just fine and are being greatly supported and have a bright future with the Vision 2030 work happening so far. You worry about your shitty healthcare, gun violence, homelessness, high income taxes, crappy infrastructure, illegal drunks & junkies roaming the streets and other stuff. No one gives a crap about your lame accusations of human rights. You've historically been the biggest mass murders and genocides from killing off the natives in North America and Aborigines in Australia and the recent wars in the middle east. No one gives a crap about some fat old attention whore journalist here anymore. 70% of the Saudi citizen population is under 35 years old and we support the government to keeps the country and us safe from all outside terrorists and other threats.
Absolutely true. And also responsible for the crusades, for the colonization of Africa, Australia and America, and the untold suffering of millions of non Europeans. Europeans also started both the world wars. Nobody is denying that. We know more about human rights violations than anyone else. Thats why we are calling out Saudi Arabia's, the same way I call Israel's genocide upon the Palestinian people.
> No one gives a crap about some fat old attention whore journalist here anymore.
Any normal human with a bit of empathy would decry a dictator killing a journalist and dismembering him like a coward. Also, wherever there a re human rights violations like in Israel, USA and Saudi Arabia, it's our moral duty to investigate further and dethrone the evildoers.
> Lol political dissidents are turd implants from the Western countries designed to instigate anarchy in the country
Ah, the old "everyone who disagrees with the government" is a foreign agent, let's detain them and maybe chop them to pieces. Putin did the same minus the chopping part. Trump is doing the same and trying to bring back Guantanamo. MBS just added the slice and dice for an extra flair.
> Saudi citizen population is under 35 years old and we support the government to keeps the country and us safe from all outside terrorists and other threats.
And whoever doesn't support the government, gets chopped to pieces?
https://metro.co.uk/2024/02/08/ex-mi5-officer-this-verdict-s...