> the air brake and the manual brake were quickly applied by the brakeman of cab #1, but that in the current configuration, the brakes do not have sufficient capacity to stop the cabins in motion without their empty masses being mutually balanced by the connecting cable. Therefore, the existing brakes does not constitute a redundant system in case of a failure in the connecting cable.
DetroitThrow · 6h ago
So, the brakes would have never worked if connecting cables broke? And this specific failure has just never happened before? Jesus.
mastazi · 4h ago
No that's not what it's saying. I've read the whole report. The hydraulic brakes are designed to be applied automatically and stop the car in case of cable failure. By mentioning "current configuration" the report is implying that the brakes were not applied fully, and the reason for this is still being investigated
robocat · 18m ago
I disagree. The last sentence kinda strongly implies that there was no redundancy:
"the existing brakes does not constitute a redundant system"
Or from the Portuguese report:
Desta forma, não constitui um sistema redundante à falha dessa ligação
Google translate:
Therefore, it does not constitute a redundant system in the event of this connection failing.
Of course it could just be saying that the brakes were critical (not redundant?). Summary reports often have spin rather than facts.
It turns out that the brakes were critical and they didn't work for whatever reason (design or maintenance or operation or unforseen failure)
DetroitThrow · 1h ago
>By mentioning "current configuration" the report is implying that the brakes were not applied fully, and the reason for this is still being investigated
Thank you for clarifying since the brakes never being able to stop a high up car is an alarming design. It does make me imagine the reason for this failure will be some horrificly implemented operational process.
vlfig · 5h ago
Although it isn't yet clear how much the brakes did actually brake, it is known they would never be enough.
So the cable was a critical component and initial findings suggest it wasn't being verified as rigourously, thoroughly and often as it perhaps should have.
mastazi · 4h ago
> it is known they would never be enough.
No that's not what it says. Brakes were not enough "in the current configuration" in other words they were not applied fully. The investigation will focus on why brakes were not applying full breaking force.
In railway jargon "brake configuration" refers to "how much are you braking" but you seem to have interpreted "braking configuration" as "the number and type of brakes that are currently installed in the vehicle"
Animats · 1h ago
The evidence indicates that the air brake and the manual brake were quickly applied
by the brakeman of cab #1, but that in the current configuration, the brakes do not have sufficient capacity to stop the cabins in motion without their empty masses being mutually balanced by the connecting cable. There-
fore, the existing brakes does not constitute a redundant system in case of a failure in the connecting cable.
So the braking system is insufficient to stop after a broken cable.
There's more than a wheel brake system. There's a mechanism to clamp against the track slot from both top and bottom. See Fig. 2, right. Apparently it wasn't enough.
Funiculars are a problem because they're too steep for railroad wheel brakes, too heavy for elevator braking systems, and rare enough that there are not good standards for them. Angels Flight in LA has had two major accidents, one in 2001 and one in 2013.[1][2] Different causes. The 2001 accident was due to bad design - only one cable, no track brakes, and a system where each car had its own winding drum. The spline connecting the drums failed. The 2013 accident, after a total redesign and replacement of the hauling system, was due to bad maintenance.
So bad that it involved a stick being used to hold down an override switch.
Elevator rail brakes are often jam brakes - once they're triggered, a wedge is jammed between brake and rail such that motion forces it into tighter contact. Stops with jam brakes are rather drastic. San Francisco cable cars have a jam brake for emergencies. That's the red lever, which drives a wedge into the slot. When used, there are usually passenger injuries and the wedge will be welded to the track by frictional heating.[3] So that's for serious emergencies only.
> In railway jargon "brake configuration" refers to "how much are you braking"
I presume the quote in English is translated from the original Portuguese. I would hope it was carefully translated but I wouldn't personally bet on that.
No entanto, e independentemente disso, as evidências indicam que o freio pneumático e também o freio manual foram rapidamente aplicados pelo guarda-freio da cabina n.® 1, mas que na configuração existente os freios não têm a capacidade suficiente para imobilizar as cabinas em movimento sem estas terem as suas massas em vazio mutuamente equilibradas através do cabo de ligação. Desta forma, não constitui um sistema redundante à falha dessa ligação.
dingaling · 43m ago
> In railway jargon "brake configuration" refers to "how much are you braking"
I've never heard that terminology in a European rail context, you'll need to provide a citation.
In EU regs, "braking configuration" literally means the mechanical configuration of braking; how much braking force the inertial, hydraulic or pneumatic braking circuits can apply in total.
sho · 1h ago
While I personally lean towards your interpretation, the language is ambiguous - perhaps intentionally so - and it is premature to read too much into it in either direction. We’ll just have to wait.
phire · 4h ago
The report only states the conclusion that the breaks did not work for the current configuration.
Which is a slightly awkwardly worded way of saying, “well obviously they didn’t work because we know they were applied and look at the result“
This is only an initial report. They still have no idea why the breaks didn’t work, and for how long they haven’t been working. Could have been a recent malfunction, something that happened during redesign, or a an inherent flaw going back to the original design.
evanjrowley · 7h ago
A very unfortunate fatal accident for those involved. It is a sad outcome caused in part by the failsafe mechanisms not being designed situations where the cable broke the way it did. I hope these can be re-engineered to overcome such failures.
I only recently learned what a funicular was thanks to the diagnonal elevators in video games series of YouTube videos by sync-on-luna:
Hopefully that's what this investigation will lead to. Nice videos.
qingcharles · 57m ago
Summary: the wrecked cabin had started its descent from the top station, only got a few seconds down before the steel cable pulled out of its socket; the cabin went into freefall down the tracks; the staff activated all the brakes available, but they were clearly not designed for this situation and could not provide enough stopping force before it derailed and hit a wall and a lamp-post at approx 60km/h.
yongjik · 49m ago
Wow, only 60km/h.
If it was a modern bus hitting a building at that speed, most occupants would be able to walk out. Really puts into perspective how much safety improved in the past 100 years.
Totally unrelated but there’s a Portuguese language Cold War miniseries on Netflix called Gloria that is excellent (set in Gloria city). I just happened to start to watch that this week
weinzierl · 6h ago
Watched it front to back in Portuguese a while ago. It is one of the few series available in European Portuguese, most are Brazilian.
I'd say it was time well spent, it is an entertaining and capturing thriller and you learn a bit about a certain era of Portuguese history.
What annoyed me a bit was that it had many small period inconsistencies. Little things like modern buildings, modern cars visible in the background, the Yamaha grand that did not yet exist in 60s and so on. Where it shines are the landscape shots.
rcruzeiro · 5h ago
When watching it, the thing that would consistently real the period piece illusion for me were the modern cranes that you could often see in the Lisbon scenes.
ljlolel · 36m ago
Tough to avoid for a budget limited run tv series. Fixing that would be expensive detail special fx for no value (maybe easy to clean up now with ai for a few hundred dollars)
vascocosta · 8h ago
This is not a preliminary report yet, but presents interesting technical data, including a description of how the system works and a detailed timeline of what happened pointing towards the detachment of the balancing cable at the anchoring socket of the cabin that crashed.
mixdup · 4h ago
It's also incredibly detailed for a report on an event that happened 3 days ago
davelondon · 2h ago
Just what I was thinking! Normally these things take months...
> the air brake and the manual brake were quickly applied by the brakeman of cab #1, but that in the current configuration, the brakes do not have sufficient capacity to stop the cabins in motion without their empty masses being mutually balanced by the connecting cable. Therefore, the existing brakes does not constitute a redundant system in case of a failure in the connecting cable.
"the existing brakes does not constitute a redundant system"
Or from the Portuguese report:
Google translate: Of course it could just be saying that the brakes were critical (not redundant?). Summary reports often have spin rather than facts.It turns out that the brakes were critical and they didn't work for whatever reason (design or maintenance or operation or unforseen failure)
Thank you for clarifying since the brakes never being able to stop a high up car is an alarming design. It does make me imagine the reason for this failure will be some horrificly implemented operational process.
So the cable was a critical component and initial findings suggest it wasn't being verified as rigourously, thoroughly and often as it perhaps should have.
No that's not what it says. Brakes were not enough "in the current configuration" in other words they were not applied fully. The investigation will focus on why brakes were not applying full breaking force.
In railway jargon "brake configuration" refers to "how much are you braking" but you seem to have interpreted "braking configuration" as "the number and type of brakes that are currently installed in the vehicle"
So the braking system is insufficient to stop after a broken cable.
There's more than a wheel brake system. There's a mechanism to clamp against the track slot from both top and bottom. See Fig. 2, right. Apparently it wasn't enough.
Funiculars are a problem because they're too steep for railroad wheel brakes, too heavy for elevator braking systems, and rare enough that there are not good standards for them. Angels Flight in LA has had two major accidents, one in 2001 and one in 2013.[1][2] Different causes. The 2001 accident was due to bad design - only one cable, no track brakes, and a system where each car had its own winding drum. The spline connecting the drums failed. The 2013 accident, after a total redesign and replacement of the hauling system, was due to bad maintenance. So bad that it involved a stick being used to hold down an override switch.
Elevator rail brakes are often jam brakes - once they're triggered, a wedge is jammed between brake and rail such that motion forces it into tighter contact. Stops with jam brakes are rather drastic. San Francisco cable cars have a jam brake for emergencies. That's the red lever, which drives a wedge into the slot. When used, there are usually passenger injuries and the wedge will be welded to the track by frictional heating.[3] So that's for serious emergencies only.
[1] https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/...
[2] https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/...
[3] https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/cable-car-6-riders...
I presume the quote in English is translated from the original Portuguese. I would hope it was carefully translated but I wouldn't personally bet on that.
A Portuguese source document might be clearer.
[edit]
Document in Portuguese: https://www.gpiaaf.gov.pt/upload/processos/d054238.pdf
I've never heard that terminology in a European rail context, you'll need to provide a citation.
In EU regs, "braking configuration" literally means the mechanical configuration of braking; how much braking force the inertial, hydraulic or pneumatic braking circuits can apply in total.
Which is a slightly awkwardly worded way of saying, “well obviously they didn’t work because we know they were applied and look at the result“
This is only an initial report. They still have no idea why the breaks didn’t work, and for how long they haven’t been working. Could have been a recent malfunction, something that happened during redesign, or a an inherent flaw going back to the original design.
I only recently learned what a funicular was thanks to the diagnonal elevators in video games series of YouTube videos by sync-on-luna:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2oELc61XHE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5EHBoU6Ps4
If it was a modern bus hitting a building at that speed, most occupants would be able to walk out. Really puts into perspective how much safety improved in the past 100 years.
I'd say it was time well spent, it is an entertaining and capturing thriller and you learn a bit about a certain era of Portuguese history.
What annoyed me a bit was that it had many small period inconsistencies. Little things like modern buildings, modern cars visible in the background, the Yamaha grand that did not yet exist in 60s and so on. Where it shines are the landscape shots.