It's unfortunate so many publicly elected representative do not understand basic facts about vaccines & immunity.
JohnFen · 4h ago
I've added this to the growing list of reasons to never set foot in Florida.
vhodges · 5h ago
Just think of it as evolution in action.
No comments yet
leopoldj · 4h ago
There are two independent issues that bear discussion.
1. Should we be mandated to do something that while a good thing appears to infringe on personal freedom. Such as, mandate good diet, exercise, vaccine etc. People here have made very good points about why sometimes we have to forgo certain freedoms for the greater good. At the same time, we should not forget how some countries take this too far and become nanny states.
2. Are the Florida officials spreading misinformation and fear against vaccinations? Some of Dr. Ladapo's recommendations can certainly be viewed that way.
mixdup · 3h ago
Everything is a matter of degrees. Could regulation and rules be taken to an extreme? Sure. The opposite is true, as well. There are several libertarian utopias with no functioning government on the planet, but it is telling that Free Staters move to New Hampshire and not Somalia
The answer is yes, we should be mandated to do things that help the greater good. If we're going to have a society and function as a cohesive population with common goals and morals and the idea that we are going to improve ourselves, you're going to have to force some people to come along
It's insane that preventing polio is being compared to a "nanny state" at this point
triceratops · 4h ago
> Should we be mandated to do something that while a good thing appears to infringe on personal freedom
Depends on what it is, the effort it takes on the part of the individual, and how much the state needs to intrude on privacy to ensure compliance.
Traffic lights infringe on personal freedom. It doesn't take individuals much effort to stop at a red light and start again when it turns green. It's easy for the state to enforce.
Diet and exercise mandates are hard to comply with, hard to enforce. The immediate benefits are limited to the individual while the societal benefits are more diffuse.
Childhood vaccination requirements are more like traffic lights than diet and exercise mandates.
> Some of Dr. Ladapo's recommendations can certainly be viewed that way
That's a an awfully charitable way to say "quack moron grifter". He's compared vaccination requirements to slavery there's really no other words to describe him.
watwut · 3h ago
The freedom argument from who amounts to be autocratic proto-nazi already got old.
"Nanny state" is word they use when their only argument is mockery.
triceratops · 3h ago
> "Nanny state" is word they use when their only argument is mockery.
Is it even an insult? Who didn't love their nanny as a kid? Lmao
SilverElfin · 5h ago
Good. Individuals should not be coerced into taking medicines or undergoing a treatment to live in society. That’s too authoritarian and bodily autonomy should really be a constitutional right. However, the current federal administration is also taking away individual agency by making it so covid boosters need a prescription if you’re under 65. That’s also not okay.
BugsJustFindMe · 4h ago
> Individuals should not ... to live in society
This demonstrates an extreme lack of awareness of what it means to be part of a society. Have you really never thought about the fact that societies are entirely built out of small near-term individual sacrifices for persistent collective benefit?
Smeevy · 4h ago
As Cicero said, "We are slaves of the law so that we may be free."
I'm not being sarcastic or anything here. Accepting a few limitations on the theoretical extents of my personal freedom so that I can exist and not worry about being murdered for my possessions on a minute-by-minute basis seems like a pretty good deal.
dc396 · 5h ago
I guess it's just too bad if you're immunocompromised, allergic to vaccines, too young to be vaccinated, in the middle of a virulent, highly transmissible pandemic, etc. -- wouldn't want to protect society from disease ravaged individuals because it might intrude on their "bodily autonomy."
SilverElfin · 5h ago
People have to manage their own risks. If they don’t want to take on the low risks associated with COVID (and they are low based on numbers), they should limit their own exposure by staying home (as opposed to forcing others to stay home) or wearing masks or whatever. It shouldn’t result in others being compelled to inject things into their body.
On a personal level, I do agree it is logical and also nice to be vaccinated. But keep in mind, vaccination means something different now. You are not immune to covid and you are still able to transmit it to others. The chances may be lower - but we’re already talking about something that has a low chance of causing serious health issues. So if someone is truly concerned about their health, whether society is vaccinated or not doesn’t matter - they would need to stay home regardless. In which case, why force others to get vaccinated?
allturtles · 4h ago
This news is about the elimination of childhood vaccine mandates - measles, mumps, rubella, hepatitis, chicken pox, polio, etc. It has nothing to do with COVID.
cwillu · 4h ago
I'd be fine with that if the unvaccinated were required to carry liability insurance and there was a strong system capable of investigation and enforcement against people responsible for outbreaks, but they're not, so fuck 'em.
add-sub-mul-div · 4h ago
The whole thing about society is that it's what you get when you receive benefits greater than you could achieve as an individual, in exchange for following rules and norms that create stability and benefits at the society level. If you want the absolute freedom of living with communicable diseases, that's a living in a cave by yourself lifestyle. That's not society.
Smeevy · 4h ago
I think the individual you're replying to fancies themselves a libertarian. I believe that means that "everyone else should have to deal with me doing whatever I want."
watwut · 3h ago
This is about kids. Yes, adults can make medical decisions for kids.
Negligent or irresponsible parents are exactly that and larger society should protect the kids.
No comments yet
1. Should we be mandated to do something that while a good thing appears to infringe on personal freedom. Such as, mandate good diet, exercise, vaccine etc. People here have made very good points about why sometimes we have to forgo certain freedoms for the greater good. At the same time, we should not forget how some countries take this too far and become nanny states.
2. Are the Florida officials spreading misinformation and fear against vaccinations? Some of Dr. Ladapo's recommendations can certainly be viewed that way.
The answer is yes, we should be mandated to do things that help the greater good. If we're going to have a society and function as a cohesive population with common goals and morals and the idea that we are going to improve ourselves, you're going to have to force some people to come along
It's insane that preventing polio is being compared to a "nanny state" at this point
Depends on what it is, the effort it takes on the part of the individual, and how much the state needs to intrude on privacy to ensure compliance.
Traffic lights infringe on personal freedom. It doesn't take individuals much effort to stop at a red light and start again when it turns green. It's easy for the state to enforce.
Diet and exercise mandates are hard to comply with, hard to enforce. The immediate benefits are limited to the individual while the societal benefits are more diffuse.
Childhood vaccination requirements are more like traffic lights than diet and exercise mandates.
> Some of Dr. Ladapo's recommendations can certainly be viewed that way
That's a an awfully charitable way to say "quack moron grifter". He's compared vaccination requirements to slavery there's really no other words to describe him.
"Nanny state" is word they use when their only argument is mockery.
Is it even an insult? Who didn't love their nanny as a kid? Lmao
This demonstrates an extreme lack of awareness of what it means to be part of a society. Have you really never thought about the fact that societies are entirely built out of small near-term individual sacrifices for persistent collective benefit?
I'm not being sarcastic or anything here. Accepting a few limitations on the theoretical extents of my personal freedom so that I can exist and not worry about being murdered for my possessions on a minute-by-minute basis seems like a pretty good deal.
On a personal level, I do agree it is logical and also nice to be vaccinated. But keep in mind, vaccination means something different now. You are not immune to covid and you are still able to transmit it to others. The chances may be lower - but we’re already talking about something that has a low chance of causing serious health issues. So if someone is truly concerned about their health, whether society is vaccinated or not doesn’t matter - they would need to stay home regardless. In which case, why force others to get vaccinated?
Negligent or irresponsible parents are exactly that and larger society should protect the kids.