I remember feeling vaguely threatened by interests that I didn't understand growing up. At one point for instance, my friend was really into anime, and I felt like it's too weird, like you'd need to be a very different kind of person to enjoy that kind of thing. Years later I decided to try it though, and still I have a bit of an aversion to a lot of the tropes of most anime, but there are also quite a few gems in there that I would've missed. I'm reminded of this often because it's common that people just have a blanket "I don't watch cartoons" attitude. I try to remember this when I have an aversion to some kind of music, literature, movie or hobby.
trentnix · 3h ago
As a compulsive, I have the problem of liking too many things. I don’t drink coffee because in a month I’ll be neck deep in forums about the proper way to grind beans. I don’t own an aquarium because I’ll be obsessively learning about perfect water pH for the most exotic fish. I don’t drink hot tea because I’ll be studying growth patterns and how seasonality affects leaves and their flavor. I don’t drink beer because I’d be sucked into learning how to craft my own.
I appreciate that it’s useful to have an open mind about your tastes and preferences, but each rabbit hole I stumble into is far deeper than the time I have available to explore. So for me, i have to find reasons to dislike things to protect my time and my existing obsessions.
nathan_douglas · 2h ago
As I creak and grunt into my mid-forties, I find a major concern of mine is my mind growing stale and stiff like an old slice of bread, and a good random deep dive into cheesemaking or the different uses of tofu in traditional Chinese cooking might help stave that off. Or it might just make me boring in a different way, IDK.
cardanome · 1h ago
As someone with ADHD, for me obsessing over something to the point of needing to be reminded to eat and drink is actually extremely healthy.
It took me a long time to accept that following my special interests is what my brain craves and what gives me a sense of fulfillment. It might be unhealthy for a neurotypical person but very healthy for me.
In fact when I am losing the spark and just can't get into anything that is when I know I am burning out and need to make changes.
leetrout · 3h ago
What are some of your current obsessions? I enjoy learning and discovering so I enjoy tech and when I get into something the joy is from the rabbit hole and then I am done and move on.
What has kept your interest?
nathan_douglas · 2h ago
Not OP, but I was also replying and had thoughts along a similar vein.
I'm 44 and have had countless hobbies over my adolescent and adult lives. Some I've taken up multiple times, some I've visited multiple variations on a core idea (e.g. aquariums/planted tanks/dwarf shrimp tanks). I've learned (and subseqeuntly forgotten) a tremendous amount, and spent an unholy amount of money. Most things have not stayed with me.
Miniature painting is one thing that I think might last me the rest of my life.
I think it boils down to a few factors:
- miniatures aren't alive; I don't need to care for them, so the worst that can happen is I break or scratch something. This keeps my anxiety/concern/guilt largely out of the equation.
- the feedback cycles are fairly short; I know almost immediately if a paint stroke was good or bad, if my brush is too wet or too dry, etc. A single project is normally just a couple of hours, and then it's done and I can view it as a completed whole.
- the product occupies little space and it's trivial to keep around and compare to work done before and after and see progression and evolution over time. Also, if you're prone to collecting things, just keeping the product on the shelf next to other things becomes an ongoing source of reward.
- if I absolutely fubar something, I can buy or print a new mini for a couple bucks or throw it in some Simple Green overnight and brush the old paint off. Most of the time I can just paint over the issue.
- paint, brushes, a wet palette, minis, airbrush, etc all add up, but you can have an amazing setup for under a thousand bucks, and you can transcend the realm of mortals for $2K. The ongoing costs after that are manageable unless you're into Warhammer. You can get started and do some really fun and cool things with a $50 starter kit.
So there's some higher-dimension graph with effort, frustration, reward, feedback latency, etc, and for me at least painting miniatures tends to sit in a happy area.
leetrout · 2h ago
How hard is cleanup in order to keep things usable? I love the idea of painting minis and models- especially learning the various weathering effects but it seemed like it would take a lot of energy to keep everything functional.
nathan_douglas · 38m ago
Trivial, honestly. And I'm not a particularly disciplined or functional person. The overwhelming majority of hobbyists use acrylic, which has no meaningful smell and can be thinned with a drop of water. I haven't had any issues with staining or the paint going where it's unwanted, and you typically only use a few drops at a time.
Sometimes I use a dry palette and sometimes a wet palette. The dry palettes are plastic and cheap on Amazon. You rinse them off in the sink. If the paint dries, use a greenie or a brush - no problem. The wet palette just needs to be wiped off with a wet napkin before you close it up, and to have the wax paper replaced when it starts to rub through. If you get the sponge dirty, it's a sponge - just fill it up with water, squish it, maybe use a little Mean Green/Simple Green/etc to clean it up.
The airbrush is a little more involved, but I dramatically overestimated how much of a pain in the ass it would be. Most of the time the cleanup for that is 3-5 minutes and not unpleasant. Occasionally it'll need to be broken down a little further, but it's still not a big deal. The mechanism isn't nearly as complex as it may initially seem.
Brushes aren't a big deal to keep clean. You'd destroy a bunch, but you'll learn over time what not to do. Just don't start with the (comparatively expensive and arguably barbaric) sable brushes, start with garbage quality brushes and treat them as disposable. Rinse them, use a little brush soap, and don't brutalize or drown them and they'll last longer and longer and maintain a better quality, then you can upgrade.
Nothing else really comes to mind in terms of labor.
donatj · 2h ago
I had something of a semi-intentional palate reset in my early twenties.
I had been a super picky eater basically my entire life, and getting me to try new foods was like pulling teeth. Then I spent a couple weeks traveling around Japan with some friends. I think it was in part genuinely wanting to immerse myself in the culture and in part not wanting to make myself appear fussy or annoying to a girl we were traveling with, but I forced myself to try things I would never have eaten state side. I found myself by the end of the trip actually pushing myself to try things... Even perhaps a little too far as the Takoyaki triggered my shellfish allergy. Nothing a bunch of Benadryl couldn't solve.
I'd come to Japan a picky eater though and left an adventurous one. I will at least try just about anything once.
This is something which twenty years later my parents still don't accept. "Oh, I thought you didn't eat salad" when I am halfway through my salad.
Mind you there are still things I did not like before that I still do not like. Ketchup tops the list.
cardanome · 1h ago
I used to be very judgemental about picky eaters and felt they are all super spoiled people but it important to know that there are vastly different reasons for being one.
Some neurodivergent people have genuine sensory issues that forces them to be selective about their food. They can't just get over it. Especially as exposure therapy does not work for them or at least not as well as for neurotypical people.
So it is always good to remind oneself to be kind and not judge people harshly. You don't know what they are struggling with.
That said, yeah most people absolutely profit from opening up their palate and trying new things.
colechristensen · 2h ago
There are a lot of negatives attributes to people that they think are fundamental to themselves that folks identify with which turn out to be... well... bad habits and bad attitudes.
donatj · 2h ago
I agree completely. Understanding the level of control you really have over yourself is key to unlock so many good things.
astura · 2h ago
I had a very intentional palate reset in my late teens going into my early 20s.
I wasn't exposed to any variety of food growing up and I stopped eating meat at a very young age (In my 40s now, still don't eat meat). So before adulthood all I ever ate was pasta, and almost always boxed pasta at that. I also had issues with some texture and flavors being extremely off-putting and making me wanna gag.
I knew I wasn't going to be able to eat that way forever, for a number of reasons (health being a big one) so I forced myself to try new foods, gradually. I fucking hated it, but I kept at it. I now like most non-meat foods, even enjoy mushrooms which have previously made me vomit. The first time I had avocado it was the nastiest thing I ever tasted but I eat (and like) avocado most days now.
colechristensen · 1h ago
One thing that people don't know very well is that kids' taste experience is different and for some this is stronger than others. The actual flavor sense is different or much more intense and this dulls with age.
I still can't eat fresh tomato and it isn't a matter of being picky or having preferences, it is very obvious that I can taste something in tomatoes that other people just can't and to me that taste is "poison".
jebarker · 3h ago
Something my middle-class British upbringing nurtured in me was incredible pessimism. Day to day this used to manifest as an assumption that I wouldn’t like any new experience, so I’d avoid them and stick to what I knew. My (American) wife pointed this out to me and life got much better when I learned to just give new things an enthusiastic and unprejudiced try more often.
phazy · 3h ago
I‘m wondering why nobody has brought up the term "acquired taste" yet. Such a beautiful expression, sadly I can’t find a good translation in most other languages.
arethuza · 3h ago
I managed to acquire a taste for gin and tonic - I went as an adult from thinking it was the most revolting thing ever to one of the few drinks I occasionally find myself craving. Acquiring the taste clearly involved drinking the stuff but I have no idea how...
orev · 13m ago
A lot of tonic water brands have been adding more sugar, which might also explain changing preferences.
flobosg · 2h ago
In Spanish the translation is literal, gusto adquirido.
cainxinth · 3h ago
When I was in sixth grade I was given an assignment: pick a food you don't like, eat it at least once a day for a week, and then report your experience. Funnily enough, by the end of the week I didn't hate tomatoes anymore.
I applied that lesson to many other things since then and it works far more often than it fails.
palata · 3h ago
Many things need to be understood to be appreciated.
For instance music: we tend to like what we know, and what we know is what we hear on the radio/everywhere we go. When people tell me they don't like jazz, I always find a jazz song they like. If they say they don't like rap music, I can always find one they like. Why? Maybe because it's closer to what they already understand (making it more accessible), or maybe it has been very popular and so they've already heard it countless times (in night clubs, on the radio, ...). Most people who dislike a whole music genre generally don't really understand it and haven't put any effort into it.
You don't like churches? Go to Notre-Dame in Paris, and have someone explain to you its architecture. How they built it, how you can date the parts of the church just from its architecture.
Don't get me wrong: it's possible to dislike stuff, and it's alright. But it's worth trying to understand before disliking.
layer8 · 2h ago
Counterpoint, understanding alone isn't enough either if you don't have an affinity.
There's a few classical and jazz pieces that I like, but that doesn’t mean that I like classical music and/or jazz, even though I do get why other people do.
Same for your church architecture example. I can appreciate it on an intellectual level, but in the end I still find it mostly boring and not my kind of aesthetics.
palata · 2h ago
> Counterpoint, understanding alone isn't enough either if you don't have an affinity.
It's not a counterpoint, as I never said that understanding something meant that you would like it.
I just said that it's worth trying to understand before concluding that we dislike something.
spauldo · 2h ago
I don't believe that most people's dislike of churches stem from the architecture.
palata · 2h ago
My point there being that it may be possible to find interesting parts in things we dislike.
carlosjobim · 1h ago
Of course it is mainly from the architecture. When a person who is mentally base sees something which is impressive and beautiful, they are filled with resentment and hate. Even more if it was constructed by people from the past which he thinks he is supposed to be much superior to.
mathiaspoint · 3h ago
You can go too far the other way. I only stopped liking jazz once I understood it.
loloquwowndueo · 3h ago
I like churches, I just don’t like going to church :)
falcor84 · 3h ago
Same here. Churches often have incredible architecture, art and acoustics. I really enjoy visiting them when there is no religious service. And I've been to some fabulous organ concerts at churches.
palata · 2h ago
Same here :-).
yread · 2h ago
I wanted to say the exact opposite meaning the same. Going to a church or cathedral to see it, cool down or warm up is nice but I dislike the church of scientology, england and probably bunch of other churches
1c2adbc4 · 3h ago
Feel the same about hospitals
amelius · 3h ago
If you don't like to go to hospitals, then about the only option is to like your particular disorders.
This may also be the only option for disorders for which there is no treatment, e.g. tinnitus.
falcor84 · 2h ago
There's also the option of waiting until your untreated disorder puts you in a coma, and then you can enjoy hospital services without being conscious of your surroundings.
arp242 · 2h ago
"I don't like X" is of course not an absolute statement (and neither is "I like X", for that matter). I don't like Hip-Hop. Of course there is some hip-hop that I think is alright, but by and large, "I don't like Hip-Hop" is accurate.
Different people are different, and different things resonate with different people. I find snobbery highly obnoxious, but to be honest my opinion of this kind of dismissal of different people liking different things with a fairly condescending "you have simply not understood it" is not much better.
palata · 2h ago
As I said, it's fine to dislike something. I was just saying that it's worth trying to understand first: you may still dislike something that you understand of course.
> but to be honest my opinion of this kind of dismissal of different people liking different things with a fairly condescending "you have simply not understood it" is not much better.
You haven't put too much effort into trying to understand my opinion, have you? :-)
hshdhdhj4444 · 1h ago
Liking certain songs within a genre doesn’t mean one enjoys the genre generally.
Usually the songs anyone can enjoy tend to be the ones that are the most palatable and are not as genre specific.
To some degree it’s a matter of semantics but to say someone enjoys a genre of music they should be able to enjoy the more esoteric songs in the genre.
Raztuf · 2h ago
>Most people who dislike a whole music genre generally don't really understand it and haven't put any effort into it.
I still can't get my family to get into noise and pigfuck, any advice ?
palata · 2h ago
I didn't say that it's impossible to dislike something you understand, though.
carlosjobim · 1h ago
Adding to this: Some classical music sucks!
It took me longer than it should have to start getting into classical music, because when I heard a piece that sucked I just assumed I didn't understand it and that classical music was too complicated. No, it's just that a lot of classical music sucks and is annoying to listen to. But a lot of it is fantastic.
tomjen3 · 2h ago
I would have said no on Rap before Hamilton. I would like to know your goto for Jazz.
mordechai9000 · 2h ago
Not OP and not a jazz expert, just throwing out a personal favorite. I think it is very approachable without sacrificing anything, and it has a recognizable melody (which might help or hinder the jazz appreciation cause):
My Favorite Things by Coltrane.
But I do know people who dislike jazz because of the unfamiliar rhythms and (wildly flexible) musical conventions, and that can be hard to overcome.
palata · 2h ago
Everyone is different of course, but if I had to try like this: do you know "Postmodern Jukebox"? :-)
famahar · 3h ago
I hated natto (fermented soy beans) but I knew how beneficial it was to my health ,plus it's very affordable. Forced myself to eat it everyday for a week and now I love it. Staple of my diet
arp242 · 2h ago
"Taste" is such a funny concept:
- A few weeks ago I looked up some music from my youth: Korn, Deftones, System of a Down, Limp Bizkit, Slipknot, Mudvayne, Slayer, Testament, Iced Earth. I played much of this to death back in the day. And ... I found I don't really care for much for most of it now. I also no longer care much for the "Trash metal classics" I liked at the time such as Testament, Slayer, and Iced Earth.
- I did like Papa Roach's Infest album though. I have no idea why I like that one now and not the other nu-metal type stuff that I liked back then.
- There are many things I "should" like because they're adjacent to things I do like, but that I nonetheless don't like. Sometimes I can find reasons for this. Often I can't. Deep Purple's Made in Japan is one of the best albums ever created and I will punch anyone who says any different into paralysis. Yet I don't care much for most other Deep Purple albums. This makes no sense to me.
- For a while I was really into prog rock. There are still tons of prog rock stuff I like, but also ... tons that I liked ~15 years ago but care much for any more.
- For years I didn't like wine (red or white). I really wanted like wine and I tried many times, but I just didn't like it. Then I didn't try for a few years and a friend brought some wine over for dinner and tried out of politeness, and ... I liked it! I've had tons of (red) wine since, and never had a bottle I strongly disliked.
- When I stayed at a hotel in England years ago I got a few of those little plastic jam containers for toast, which included Marmite. I didn't really know what this "Marmite" thing was. Instant regret ensued, much to the amusement of my girlfriend. Being Dutch I do like salty liquorice, which is similar in a way I suppose. Yet I dislike Marmite (without being aware that it's controversial).
I don't really have a deeper point; just some observations I guess. Cultural and psychological factors absolutely play a role, but I also think it's just a matter of different people being different, and people just changing over the years.x
I also think it's okay to dislike things as long as you're not a dick about it.
jimnotgym · 1h ago
There is the famous idea in the UK that you either love or hate Marmite. Marmite used to use the concept in it's own advertising.
I, on the other hand can take it or leave it. I sometimes wonder what that says about me.
ljlolel · 3h ago
You can do this with flavors or pain sensations by focusing on the feeling. You can also meditate on it then learn to mentally subtract it entirely, realizing that the experience is just an experience mediated in your system. Learn about how the mind flips and reverses and fills in vision from retina.
nilstycho · 3h ago
“The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts.”
cosmic_quanta · 2h ago
This was a great read. I find myself becoming the grumpy complainer as I age, but as the post says, the torture is mostly in my head. It's good to keep that in mind; I can't always control my environment, but I can always control how I experience it.
I also enjoyed the writing style, and wandered onto another post. First sentence:
> I’ve always seen cathedrals as presenting a kind of implicit argument to atheists. Something like: God must exist, because otherwise it would have been insane for people to build [a cathedral]
This is my new favourite writer
tananan · 2h ago
I like this post.
What I find a practical, related advice is “If you want to get good at something, you have to make yourself glad that you’re doing it.”
This involves reminding yourself why it is that you want to get better at it, perceiving the process of learning as an interesting challenge, and in general generating interest.
There is a lot of creativity in how you actually do this. It is a skill in itself, and a very useful one, especially for skills where you find yourself lacking patience and motivation.
jjkaczor · 3h ago
I do this often with music - typically there is a single song from an album that I love - so, I try and place the entire album onto my device and then listen to it as a cohesive whole. Often, I end-up with 2-3 more songs that go into my regular rotation.
ergonaught · 2h ago
This particular approach, intelligently applied, ultimately leads to a kind of freedom. Most of our preferences are simple conditioning, prejudices really, and only serve to constrain optionality.
Excessive rigidity is an early death.
trivo · 3h ago
What's wrong with liking Oasis?!
__alexs · 3h ago
That's the spirit!
aklemm · 3h ago
Yes! This is underrated and something I work on with my kids, because it really is a pillar of good living. For me it's been everything from many foods, to basketball, to hiking, to art museums, and maybe someday I'll even tolerate musicals.
arethuza · 3h ago
Musicals are fine (even the stage version of Lord of the Rings) but opera took a lot of persuading for me to actually to go and see one live - and it was quite an incredible experience.
nilstycho · 3h ago
Do you have any tips for how to work on this with kids?
Etheryte · 2h ago
Camps, hobbies and other such activities where they see others their age do things and have a good time. As a parent, you're not necessarily the coolest thing in the world. However their friends and peers with varied backgrounds can fill that role. I used to do youth work when I was younger and some of the biggest leaps of personality happened in groups with very mixed backgrounds. Poor kids, rich kids, sporty, dorky, introverts, extroverts and everything in between, in the right environment they'll rub off on one another in all the best ways.
tripletpeaks · 18m ago
Limit options. If the only, say, film options are five movies they’re resistant to watching, it’ll take very little time for them to break down and try one.
You do also have to restrict plausible substitutes, like if you do this with movies you need to either cut off or do a similar thing with video games.
Worst case, they don’t try the things you presented, but do go outside. Oh no, what a tragedy, lol.
martindbp · 3h ago
Would like to know as well. Whenever I suggest something new it's a default "NO!". But if it just happens naturally it's ok. Like if I put on a song and suggest he listen to it, my kid will literally scream and cry like I'm torturing him, but if it happens to be on the radio while driving then suddenly it's fine and he'll love it. I think part of the reason is that everything is on demand these days, unlike when we grew up on broadcast tv and radio.
nemomarx · 3h ago
A little embarrassing to admit this, but I find it harder to listen to a new song or genre if that's the main activity I'm doing - like sitting down to just focus on the song. If I put it on while washing the dishes or driving I don't feel as pressured about it.
Maybe this is involved a bit? asking your son to listen to something could be making it an activity, maybe put it on while you do something else and then ask his thoughts on it after?
koakuma-chan · 3h ago
Arouse in the other person an eager want.
aklemm · 2h ago
Off the top of my head, I do several things:
1) tell stories of how I came to enjoy something I previously had not
2) don't make anything contentious...respect preferences while insisting they can change those preferences if they want to
3) help them gain competence quickly in anything they may not love at first
4) exposure and enthusiasm about lots of things
5) never trashing things and never ever shitting on other people's likes.
esafak · 3h ago
Or don't, and cultivate taste, which is about having a rationale for separating the good from the bad -- and disliking stuff. It might not make you popular at parties though.
williamdclt · 3h ago
I think that's orthogonal. The author is not saying that everything in every field is good: their TV example explicitly calls out bad TV.
What they are saying is that you can make yourself enjoy a field _at all_, in which you can then apply taste. For example I don't like whisky, but that's not a matter of me applying "good taste": I would never claim that whisky is bad in general and if I really tried I'm pretty sure I would start being able to enjoy whisky and separate the good from the bad (at least subjectively).
manfromchina1 · 2h ago
> I think that's orthogonal.
One time on 4chan I mentioned I liked how users on HN like to pepper their speech with little math words like so: "Love is orthogonal to distance, modulo trust, and the parameters aren’t marginal". People wouldnt believe me this was normal talk. Case in point. Although this was more prevalent on HN about 10 years ago. Or maybe now as well. I dont read comments as much these days.
esafak · 2h ago
Absolutely! One can also recognize the good and the bad in a field that one dislikes, judged by its own criteria.
rfrey · 3h ago
But remain open to the possibility it's not your good taste that is making you unpopular at parties.
celeries · 3h ago
I like plain oatmeal. I wouldn't say it's "good" in most qualitative senses.
"Cultivating taste" might mean less capacity to tolerate or enjoy things that are fine-but-not-great.
tripletpeaks · 2h ago
It’s fine to like trash.
It’s best to be able to tell it’s trash, because if you can’t then it means you’re missing what you need to fully appreciate really good things, which is less than ideal.
But it’s totally fine to like it. Zero shame.
And it doesn’t make people bad who can’t tell the difference between trash and good stuff, they’ve just prioritized different (and, maybe, less, but who cares) stuff than you have. Though when they try to make recommendations it’s fair to totally ignore them. Even if you are looking for a particular kind of trash, you need a critic who can tell good from bad (but appreciates that even bad things have an audience) if you want a good hit-rate. And when those sorts start to opine that actually good things are bad (because they haven’t developed the ability to appreciate them) it’s fine to regard that behavior as boorish, because it is. It’s basically the inverse of snobbery, and yeah, it’s also shitty.
aklemm · 3h ago
Good taste should be intriguing, so you might be doing it wrong.
zwnow · 3h ago
Its also very subjective and dismissing people because they have "bad taste" is silly behavior
praptak · 3h ago
No, fuck taste. It's either a class shibboleth or just a game of Calvinball where snobs trying to one up each other.
No comments yet
ausbah · 3h ago
keep an open mind esp if it challenges your biases and as you age, and sometimes it worth being “just ok” with something if it’s a group context?
keepamovin · 3h ago
I needed to read this today. This person writes really well. Thank you for sharing this, OP!
semv3r · 2h ago
Michael Jackson was an unfortunate example to choose.
zwnow · 3h ago
Listen, I am 30 now. Not too old, still missing plenty of experiences in life. But I know what stuff I do not like, and I won't force myself to try and like them.
I hate sports, I tried liking it, did not work out (heh pun intended).
I hate cooking, I try it every other day, I will never like it.
Its okay not to like things.
captaincrisp · 2h ago
100%. I think the article makes space for this, too. In 3, 4, and 5 the author describes the experience of bouncing off of something despite trying to like it as well as _thinking_ you like something despite not _really_ liking it. Both types of experiences resonated with me.
I think the key here is that you did try, you gave cooking and sports an honest chance, and it turns out that you're not into them. It doesn't feel like many people would put the effort in to really figure out if they _would_ like something that's initially uncomfortable or difficult. I think that's what the article is responding to - I read the overall thesis as "you might actually end up liking something that you don't like initially" rather than "you will like anything given enough effort".
zwnow · 2h ago
Ah I can see that as well, I think you should discover new stuff all the time, but for some things you just know you won't like it, despite never having tried. Karaoke for me.
PaulKeeble · 2h ago
In order to be sure you don't like something you have to try it a number of times before you can sure you dislike it. But its also important to assess what you dislike about it to ensure its not peer/societal pressure based or other potential assaults on the self rather than core to you.
kingkawn · 3h ago
How are you an old curmudgeon at 30
zwnow · 3h ago
Long time depression, father dead at 15, half of family dead since, possibly adhd, moved places like 8 times, poor (thankfully no debt), balding, never had a relationship, constant anger due to the stupidity of other people (when reading comments on news articles as an example), and and and...
coldpie · 2h ago
> constant anger due to the stupidity of other people (when reading comments on news articles as an example)
Holy cow dude, cut this one right the fuck out. Absolutely eliminate that portion of your day. Cold turkey straight to zero. Right now. Reading Internet comments that make you angry is like choosing to stick your face in the exhaust of a diesel truck. There's no reason to do it. Just don't.
zwnow · 2h ago
I get that. For lots of articles there are people giving additional context which i find highly interesting. As a German, nowadays I just see a lot of hate towards immigrants or women, which deeply saddens me.
coldpie · 2h ago
It's your life, but I promise you no amount of "highly interesting" is worth "constant anger." If you stop reading that garbage for a couple weeks, I promise you will wonder why on Earth you were ever wasting your time on it.
kingkawn · 50m ago
Sounds like you need some you time
neutronicus · 3h ago
Hasn't had kids to push the Reset button, probably.
zwnow · 3h ago
I am fully against forcing kids into this world with the way things are currently going. If I see a future I'd want to live in I'll think about kids.
neutronicus · 2h ago
Fair perspective.
Honestly, for me the joy of life was front-loaded. Childhood was great, lot of stress and alienation since, with joy taken where I can find it but not a typical condition. My almost-six-year-old seems to be loving childhood as well, so I hope that even if things go really pear-shaped for civilization in the next couple decades he'll regard having lived as a net win.
magicmicah85 · 3h ago
I hate cooking...for others. Three kids, wife - everyone has a different taste. I put peppers in pasta sauce, my boys won't eat it. I make it a bit too spicy, my wife won't eat it. I had a joy for cooking when I was younger because I surprised myself with how tasty I could make things but constantly trying to please family is just grueling as it's required to do the lowest common denominator.
But I agree overall with your point. There are some things that I just will never like. I will try new things, but I quickly realize I'm not vibing with it and need to stop pretending.
jraph · 3h ago
> I know what stuff I do not like
You know that there are some things you don't like almost for sure. That makes all the difference.
I'm slightly older than you and keep running into things I used to dislike and that I surprisingly dislike less now. And that feels good.
Keeping the door open on disliking less seems critical to me.
edit: read your other comment, good luck, I wish you the best and I hope you can enjoy more things as time passes and find a path that suits you!
techpineapple · 2h ago
Something’s I’ve noticed are better in a context; or similarly, I choose not to like them because time / my life has gone a different way.
Like I like going to state fairs, and I like country music in that context, even if I wouldn’t choose to put it on the radio at home. I don’t watch snarky reality tv like the real housewives, but I might enjoy it surrounded by my snarky gay friends or put another way - if people I like like like something I can appreciate it with them.
Cross cultural experiences when traveling fit into this category too. Lots of things I wouldn’t sort of pursue in my own but leave fond memories with strong emotional resonance in retrospect.
netbioserror · 3h ago
Actively trying to like something is already a sign that you don't like it intrinsically. Continuing to try strikes me as...some expression of over-socialization. It's okay to pursue things you actually like for your own sake.
tripletpeaks · 4m ago
If I hadn’t pursued things that initially didn’t click for me, I’d be missing out on what are now my favorite… everything, really, and still stuck with some things that are by-comparison so bad that I can’t believe I ever liked them, at least not to the degree that I did.
yepguy · 2h ago
I do this with sports to fit in better and make it easier to socialize.
I do this with music, films, and books because I think some things are objectively better than others in ways that don't always line up with my own tastes.
netbioserror · 1h ago
So you're lying to yourself to fit in instead of exploring the wider world to find undiscovered potential interests that bring you joy. I used to be like that. The earlier you stop, the more content you'll be. If you're worried that you might have bad taste, you're only thinking about how you're perceived by others, not about using your short time on Earth wisely.
stdbrouw · 2h ago
If there is an ideal amount of some personality trait then for most people the advice would be "do more of this" even though for some others it'll have to be "do less of this" depending on where you're coming from. When I was young I definitely did a bit of over-socialization (everybody seems to like music festivals so I guess I must like them too if I don't want to be a weirdo?) but as you can see in the comments to this post, as we get older it's easy to get into a pattern where anything you're not familiar with is instantly met with suspicion or derision, and a lot of people don't like this about themselves, which is why this blogpost resonates with them.
Also, "liking something intrinsically", what does that even mean?
netbioserror · 1h ago
You've never discovered something and felt the indescribable, joy-inducing draw of its appeal? Listened to some music and immediately jived with it? Blaming familiarity bias and "old man yells at clouds" is a disappointingly small-minded critique. It's the opposite: I've lived long enough to thoroughly experience the joy of newly discovering something that feels like it fits me perfectly; conversely, I've tried to appreciate other things enough times to know never to waste my time trying again. Especially for the sake of others.
I've learned that liking things behaves a lot like attraction. It has no reasoning or logic, it happens organically, and when you know, you know. Thus, I would never deign to pretend to like something I've found I don't.
rubenvanwyk · 3h ago
Imagine people in politics adopt this mindset? The world would be a much more tolerable place.
I appreciate that it’s useful to have an open mind about your tastes and preferences, but each rabbit hole I stumble into is far deeper than the time I have available to explore. So for me, i have to find reasons to dislike things to protect my time and my existing obsessions.
It took me a long time to accept that following my special interests is what my brain craves and what gives me a sense of fulfillment. It might be unhealthy for a neurotypical person but very healthy for me.
In fact when I am losing the spark and just can't get into anything that is when I know I am burning out and need to make changes.
What has kept your interest?
I'm 44 and have had countless hobbies over my adolescent and adult lives. Some I've taken up multiple times, some I've visited multiple variations on a core idea (e.g. aquariums/planted tanks/dwarf shrimp tanks). I've learned (and subseqeuntly forgotten) a tremendous amount, and spent an unholy amount of money. Most things have not stayed with me.
Miniature painting is one thing that I think might last me the rest of my life.
I think it boils down to a few factors:
- miniatures aren't alive; I don't need to care for them, so the worst that can happen is I break or scratch something. This keeps my anxiety/concern/guilt largely out of the equation.
- the feedback cycles are fairly short; I know almost immediately if a paint stroke was good or bad, if my brush is too wet or too dry, etc. A single project is normally just a couple of hours, and then it's done and I can view it as a completed whole.
- the product occupies little space and it's trivial to keep around and compare to work done before and after and see progression and evolution over time. Also, if you're prone to collecting things, just keeping the product on the shelf next to other things becomes an ongoing source of reward.
- if I absolutely fubar something, I can buy or print a new mini for a couple bucks or throw it in some Simple Green overnight and brush the old paint off. Most of the time I can just paint over the issue.
- paint, brushes, a wet palette, minis, airbrush, etc all add up, but you can have an amazing setup for under a thousand bucks, and you can transcend the realm of mortals for $2K. The ongoing costs after that are manageable unless you're into Warhammer. You can get started and do some really fun and cool things with a $50 starter kit.
So there's some higher-dimension graph with effort, frustration, reward, feedback latency, etc, and for me at least painting miniatures tends to sit in a happy area.
Sometimes I use a dry palette and sometimes a wet palette. The dry palettes are plastic and cheap on Amazon. You rinse them off in the sink. If the paint dries, use a greenie or a brush - no problem. The wet palette just needs to be wiped off with a wet napkin before you close it up, and to have the wax paper replaced when it starts to rub through. If you get the sponge dirty, it's a sponge - just fill it up with water, squish it, maybe use a little Mean Green/Simple Green/etc to clean it up.
The airbrush is a little more involved, but I dramatically overestimated how much of a pain in the ass it would be. Most of the time the cleanup for that is 3-5 minutes and not unpleasant. Occasionally it'll need to be broken down a little further, but it's still not a big deal. The mechanism isn't nearly as complex as it may initially seem.
Brushes aren't a big deal to keep clean. You'd destroy a bunch, but you'll learn over time what not to do. Just don't start with the (comparatively expensive and arguably barbaric) sable brushes, start with garbage quality brushes and treat them as disposable. Rinse them, use a little brush soap, and don't brutalize or drown them and they'll last longer and longer and maintain a better quality, then you can upgrade.
Nothing else really comes to mind in terms of labor.
I had been a super picky eater basically my entire life, and getting me to try new foods was like pulling teeth. Then I spent a couple weeks traveling around Japan with some friends. I think it was in part genuinely wanting to immerse myself in the culture and in part not wanting to make myself appear fussy or annoying to a girl we were traveling with, but I forced myself to try things I would never have eaten state side. I found myself by the end of the trip actually pushing myself to try things... Even perhaps a little too far as the Takoyaki triggered my shellfish allergy. Nothing a bunch of Benadryl couldn't solve.
I'd come to Japan a picky eater though and left an adventurous one. I will at least try just about anything once.
This is something which twenty years later my parents still don't accept. "Oh, I thought you didn't eat salad" when I am halfway through my salad.
Mind you there are still things I did not like before that I still do not like. Ketchup tops the list.
Some neurodivergent people have genuine sensory issues that forces them to be selective about their food. They can't just get over it. Especially as exposure therapy does not work for them or at least not as well as for neurotypical people.
So it is always good to remind oneself to be kind and not judge people harshly. You don't know what they are struggling with.
That said, yeah most people absolutely profit from opening up their palate and trying new things.
I wasn't exposed to any variety of food growing up and I stopped eating meat at a very young age (In my 40s now, still don't eat meat). So before adulthood all I ever ate was pasta, and almost always boxed pasta at that. I also had issues with some texture and flavors being extremely off-putting and making me wanna gag.
I knew I wasn't going to be able to eat that way forever, for a number of reasons (health being a big one) so I forced myself to try new foods, gradually. I fucking hated it, but I kept at it. I now like most non-meat foods, even enjoy mushrooms which have previously made me vomit. The first time I had avocado it was the nastiest thing I ever tasted but I eat (and like) avocado most days now.
I still can't eat fresh tomato and it isn't a matter of being picky or having preferences, it is very obvious that I can taste something in tomatoes that other people just can't and to me that taste is "poison".
I applied that lesson to many other things since then and it works far more often than it fails.
For instance music: we tend to like what we know, and what we know is what we hear on the radio/everywhere we go. When people tell me they don't like jazz, I always find a jazz song they like. If they say they don't like rap music, I can always find one they like. Why? Maybe because it's closer to what they already understand (making it more accessible), or maybe it has been very popular and so they've already heard it countless times (in night clubs, on the radio, ...). Most people who dislike a whole music genre generally don't really understand it and haven't put any effort into it.
You don't like churches? Go to Notre-Dame in Paris, and have someone explain to you its architecture. How they built it, how you can date the parts of the church just from its architecture.
Don't get me wrong: it's possible to dislike stuff, and it's alright. But it's worth trying to understand before disliking.
There's a few classical and jazz pieces that I like, but that doesn’t mean that I like classical music and/or jazz, even though I do get why other people do.
Same for your church architecture example. I can appreciate it on an intellectual level, but in the end I still find it mostly boring and not my kind of aesthetics.
It's not a counterpoint, as I never said that understanding something meant that you would like it.
I just said that it's worth trying to understand before concluding that we dislike something.
This may also be the only option for disorders for which there is no treatment, e.g. tinnitus.
Different people are different, and different things resonate with different people. I find snobbery highly obnoxious, but to be honest my opinion of this kind of dismissal of different people liking different things with a fairly condescending "you have simply not understood it" is not much better.
> but to be honest my opinion of this kind of dismissal of different people liking different things with a fairly condescending "you have simply not understood it" is not much better.
You haven't put too much effort into trying to understand my opinion, have you? :-)
Usually the songs anyone can enjoy tend to be the ones that are the most palatable and are not as genre specific.
To some degree it’s a matter of semantics but to say someone enjoys a genre of music they should be able to enjoy the more esoteric songs in the genre.
I still can't get my family to get into noise and pigfuck, any advice ?
It took me longer than it should have to start getting into classical music, because when I heard a piece that sucked I just assumed I didn't understand it and that classical music was too complicated. No, it's just that a lot of classical music sucks and is annoying to listen to. But a lot of it is fantastic.
My Favorite Things by Coltrane.
But I do know people who dislike jazz because of the unfamiliar rhythms and (wildly flexible) musical conventions, and that can be hard to overcome.
- A few weeks ago I looked up some music from my youth: Korn, Deftones, System of a Down, Limp Bizkit, Slipknot, Mudvayne, Slayer, Testament, Iced Earth. I played much of this to death back in the day. And ... I found I don't really care for much for most of it now. I also no longer care much for the "Trash metal classics" I liked at the time such as Testament, Slayer, and Iced Earth.
- I did like Papa Roach's Infest album though. I have no idea why I like that one now and not the other nu-metal type stuff that I liked back then.
- There are many things I "should" like because they're adjacent to things I do like, but that I nonetheless don't like. Sometimes I can find reasons for this. Often I can't. Deep Purple's Made in Japan is one of the best albums ever created and I will punch anyone who says any different into paralysis. Yet I don't care much for most other Deep Purple albums. This makes no sense to me.
- For a while I was really into prog rock. There are still tons of prog rock stuff I like, but also ... tons that I liked ~15 years ago but care much for any more.
- For years I didn't like wine (red or white). I really wanted like wine and I tried many times, but I just didn't like it. Then I didn't try for a few years and a friend brought some wine over for dinner and tried out of politeness, and ... I liked it! I've had tons of (red) wine since, and never had a bottle I strongly disliked.
- When I stayed at a hotel in England years ago I got a few of those little plastic jam containers for toast, which included Marmite. I didn't really know what this "Marmite" thing was. Instant regret ensued, much to the amusement of my girlfriend. Being Dutch I do like salty liquorice, which is similar in a way I suppose. Yet I dislike Marmite (without being aware that it's controversial).
I don't really have a deeper point; just some observations I guess. Cultural and psychological factors absolutely play a role, but I also think it's just a matter of different people being different, and people just changing over the years.x
I also think it's okay to dislike things as long as you're not a dick about it.
I, on the other hand can take it or leave it. I sometimes wonder what that says about me.
I also enjoyed the writing style, and wandered onto another post. First sentence:
> I’ve always seen cathedrals as presenting a kind of implicit argument to atheists. Something like: God must exist, because otherwise it would have been insane for people to build [a cathedral]
This is my new favourite writer
What I find a practical, related advice is “If you want to get good at something, you have to make yourself glad that you’re doing it.”
This involves reminding yourself why it is that you want to get better at it, perceiving the process of learning as an interesting challenge, and in general generating interest.
There is a lot of creativity in how you actually do this. It is a skill in itself, and a very useful one, especially for skills where you find yourself lacking patience and motivation.
Excessive rigidity is an early death.
You do also have to restrict plausible substitutes, like if you do this with movies you need to either cut off or do a similar thing with video games.
Worst case, they don’t try the things you presented, but do go outside. Oh no, what a tragedy, lol.
Maybe this is involved a bit? asking your son to listen to something could be making it an activity, maybe put it on while you do something else and then ask his thoughts on it after?
1) tell stories of how I came to enjoy something I previously had not
2) don't make anything contentious...respect preferences while insisting they can change those preferences if they want to
3) help them gain competence quickly in anything they may not love at first
4) exposure and enthusiasm about lots of things
5) never trashing things and never ever shitting on other people's likes.
What they are saying is that you can make yourself enjoy a field _at all_, in which you can then apply taste. For example I don't like whisky, but that's not a matter of me applying "good taste": I would never claim that whisky is bad in general and if I really tried I'm pretty sure I would start being able to enjoy whisky and separate the good from the bad (at least subjectively).
One time on 4chan I mentioned I liked how users on HN like to pepper their speech with little math words like so: "Love is orthogonal to distance, modulo trust, and the parameters aren’t marginal". People wouldnt believe me this was normal talk. Case in point. Although this was more prevalent on HN about 10 years ago. Or maybe now as well. I dont read comments as much these days.
"Cultivating taste" might mean less capacity to tolerate or enjoy things that are fine-but-not-great.
It’s best to be able to tell it’s trash, because if you can’t then it means you’re missing what you need to fully appreciate really good things, which is less than ideal.
But it’s totally fine to like it. Zero shame.
And it doesn’t make people bad who can’t tell the difference between trash and good stuff, they’ve just prioritized different (and, maybe, less, but who cares) stuff than you have. Though when they try to make recommendations it’s fair to totally ignore them. Even if you are looking for a particular kind of trash, you need a critic who can tell good from bad (but appreciates that even bad things have an audience) if you want a good hit-rate. And when those sorts start to opine that actually good things are bad (because they haven’t developed the ability to appreciate them) it’s fine to regard that behavior as boorish, because it is. It’s basically the inverse of snobbery, and yeah, it’s also shitty.
No comments yet
I hate sports, I tried liking it, did not work out (heh pun intended).
I hate cooking, I try it every other day, I will never like it.
Its okay not to like things.
I think the key here is that you did try, you gave cooking and sports an honest chance, and it turns out that you're not into them. It doesn't feel like many people would put the effort in to really figure out if they _would_ like something that's initially uncomfortable or difficult. I think that's what the article is responding to - I read the overall thesis as "you might actually end up liking something that you don't like initially" rather than "you will like anything given enough effort".
Holy cow dude, cut this one right the fuck out. Absolutely eliminate that portion of your day. Cold turkey straight to zero. Right now. Reading Internet comments that make you angry is like choosing to stick your face in the exhaust of a diesel truck. There's no reason to do it. Just don't.
Honestly, for me the joy of life was front-loaded. Childhood was great, lot of stress and alienation since, with joy taken where I can find it but not a typical condition. My almost-six-year-old seems to be loving childhood as well, so I hope that even if things go really pear-shaped for civilization in the next couple decades he'll regard having lived as a net win.
But I agree overall with your point. There are some things that I just will never like. I will try new things, but I quickly realize I'm not vibing with it and need to stop pretending.
You know that there are some things you don't like almost for sure. That makes all the difference.
I'm slightly older than you and keep running into things I used to dislike and that I surprisingly dislike less now. And that feels good.
Keeping the door open on disliking less seems critical to me.
edit: read your other comment, good luck, I wish you the best and I hope you can enjoy more things as time passes and find a path that suits you!
Like I like going to state fairs, and I like country music in that context, even if I wouldn’t choose to put it on the radio at home. I don’t watch snarky reality tv like the real housewives, but I might enjoy it surrounded by my snarky gay friends or put another way - if people I like like like something I can appreciate it with them.
Cross cultural experiences when traveling fit into this category too. Lots of things I wouldn’t sort of pursue in my own but leave fond memories with strong emotional resonance in retrospect.
I do this with music, films, and books because I think some things are objectively better than others in ways that don't always line up with my own tastes.
Also, "liking something intrinsically", what does that even mean?
I've learned that liking things behaves a lot like attraction. It has no reasoning or logic, it happens organically, and when you know, you know. Thus, I would never deign to pretend to like something I've found I don't.