ETFs now hold more than $3.1T worth of just top US companies

88 GodelNumbering 89 8/31/2025, 1:31:07 AM signalbloom.ai ↗

Comments (89)

SilverElfin · 18h ago
The entire system just helps big companies become even bigger and even more anti competitive. Even just due to their existence (being large and existing). Passive investing is good for the general person but also makes this concentration worse and keeps capital away from smaller companies. We need some way to make the small and medium portions of the economy work better.
mannyv · 15h ago
The history of corporations shows that monopoly or oligopoly is the end result without intervention. And even with intervention scale matters.

Example: in smaller countries there are multiple cellphone providers that are essentially identical. They don't compete, really.

When a business starts harvesting the economies of scale it also becomes easier to compete against everyone. Then you get the political externalities (nobody gets fired for buying IBM) and real anti-competitive behavior (supplier exclusivity, bribes, tying, discounts, etc).

It's practically a natural law.

transcriptase · 15h ago
Canada is the prime example of this phenomenon.

Rogers, Bell, and Telus are the three companies that own or acquire nearly every internet/mobile/tv property in the entire country. They all offer the exact same plans at the exact same prices, moving in lockstep almost down to the hour when new price or benefit surfaces.

Similarly banking is dominated by the big 5 who don’t really compete as far as the average customer is concerned.

In many regions groceries are dominated by two companies, while nationally the entire market basically consists of five or so.

And because Canadian pension plans and ETFs are so heavily invested in these select few companies, they trudge along with virtually no incentive to upset the status quo because the government finds it easier to oversee oligopolies than allow competition to benefit the populace.

com2kid · 15h ago
You are giving examples of markets where goods and services are commodified.

Cellular technology between providers is basically identical now. The nightmare that all cellular providers dreaded, becoming a dumb data pipeline, has happened. Value add services are dead across the board.

Telus has a profit margin of around 4%, what sort of innovation are you expecting with those financials?

Zigurd · 6h ago
How does one calculate a reliable profit margin for a product that has zero incremental costs for delivering another unit of the product?

Forgive my cynicism for thinking that the cost of acquisitions and other financial shenanigans is factored into what's called the profit margin for those businesses.

transcriptase · 13h ago
Sure. Let’s just pretend collusion and price gouging hadn’t been going on for over 20 years, while the big 3 including Telus assimilated all independently owned competitors and until about 2020 maintained the most absurdly expensive and profitable mobile plans on earth while claiming it was due to infrastructure costs which were actually being subsidized by taxpayers. Oh and while the regulatory body that was supposed to keep them in check, staffed nearly exclusively by former Telus, Rogers, and Bell higher-ups, rubber stamped acquisitions and actively prevented foreign competitors from threatening the gravy train in conjunction with propaganda campaigns from incumbents.

Get fucking real. Which one did you work for?

com2kid · 12h ago
Cell companies suck, yes. And a decade ago they sucked more, and 2 decades ago it was really fucked.

But they got commoditized. They are a utility provider now, they can't charge an arm and a leg for tethering or photos in messages.

Their profit margins are garbage and they have to spend a shit ton of money to deploy new tech to maintain those shit margins.

The writing has been on the wall for decades that this was coming,which is why they acted like such dicks to try and keep it from happening.

conorcleary · 7h ago
I bet they could get way more than 4% profit margin if things actually were lean in their supply chain. Any publicly-traded company has hangers-on all the way up and down - buddies overcharging services rendered but put through the ringer a dozen times creating lots of jobs (then shrinking it directly into profit via some other vendor's AI scam). Something like Mint comes along or Koodo that can actually charge less (Teksavvy) then they get bullied, lobbied against, or straight up bought to be shut down or enshitificated
nradov · 14h ago
The history of technology focused companies shows that monopolies never last. Eventually the monopolist always misses a disruptive innovation and a startup competitor eats their lunch. No one cares now that IBM used to have a (near) monopoly on mainframes.

Some other slower moving industries are more conducive to lasting monopolies.

godelski · 15h ago
I like to think of it from the point of network effects. So from the point that if your business makes more money by more connections then you can see how this explodes into a natural monopoly. Be that by something like operating costs are cheaper per connection via more efficient routing or more direct in just simply $/connection. It's definitely a (very) naive model but I think it can be useful and at least helps understand how there is such a thing as a "natural monopoly".

It also applies to the classic Silicon Valley model. You operate at a loss in the beginning because you are hyper focused on growing nodes and connections. Once you have sufficient size your whole business structure changes, being able to leverage the network effects (including your competitor's now lack of network). A good example of a network effect is social media. No one joins a platform because no one is there. No one leaves a platform, even if they hate it, because everyone is there. In a world where we've made scale so critical, natural monopolies are going to proliferate.

GodelNumbering · 18h ago
I believe the root cause of ALL of this are extremely incumbent friendly policies that took hold in the last few decades in the developed countries.
js8 · 17h ago
The incumbent-friendly policies are also called laissez-faire. Turns out, the nature favors the incumbent.
GodelNumbering · 17h ago
No, the nature favors the fittest. The incumbent may or may not be the fittest. The said policies allow the unfit or inefficient businesses to stay around or dominate.

While I acknowledge your point of view, a Tesla taking in $38B of government subsidy or a google/apple getting special lenient legal treatment is not laissez-faire.

js8 · 16h ago
I think many replies understood my comment as "every incumbent-friendly policy is laissez-faire", and argued that. What I really meant was the opposite implication, "laissez-faire policies are incumbent-friendly". (The "another name" quip came from how it's sold to the public.)

Re fitness - if you define it in terms of survival, you get a circular argument. Is a brainworm that controls the host (e.g. to get some subsidies) the fittest? Based on your example, you think it's not. So how do you define fitness?

What I am saying is different - incumbent has an advantage, it already adapted at least once to it's environment. That gives it an edge over something that is adapting for the first time. Of course that doesn't mean incumbent cannot fail at readaptation or the new thing cannot win. The favor from gods has limits.

(Incumbent also has a way to mobilize resources in a way that can be difficult for a newcomer. As was also pointed out, applying biological theories to businesses can be tricky, so this is perhaps more relevant.)

thaumasiotes · 15h ago
I like your comment, but I'm not sure about this part:

> Is a brainworm that controls the host (e.g. to get some subsidies) the fittest? Based on your example, you think it's not. So how do you define fitness?

The parent comment says (with my emphasis):

>> a Tesla taking in $38B of government subsidy or a google/apple getting special lenient legal treatment is not laissez-faire.

As you note, there is something of an assumption here that the claim being responded to is that all incumbent-friendly policies are laissez-faire.

But there does not appear to be a claim that successfully seeking large subsidies isn't a type of corporate fitness.

anonym29 · 15h ago
You might want to revise your original post's wording, which quite directly implies that the incumbent-friendly policies that emerged in the last few decades, specifically, are laissez-faire.

Your original post is responding to a post critiquing incumbent-friendly policies that only emerged in the last few decades.

Your point that market economics alone can favor incumbents isn't wrong, but that's a non-sequitir response to the post you are responding to.

Market economics aren't the incumbent-friendly policies that only emerged in the last few decades. The artificial mechanisms instituted through purchased political influence are.

roenxi · 16h ago
Or the entire concept of 'too big to fail', which a great slogan for a terrible idea. If reverses the incentives from spreading risks and organising them to be uncorrelated out to instead concentrating them and encouraging them to correlate because then when it looks like a company might lose money the public will probably pick up the bill.
robocat · 16h ago
> No, the nature favors the fittest

Actually nature favours selfish reproduction. Take care not to be distracted by "fitness" when looking at evolution. Fitness is only defined by reproductive success.

Businesses compete for resources. But they don't reproduce, so comparing nature to businesses is often pointless.

Calavar · 16h ago
Fittest is a question of global optimum. Nature favors local optima.
echelon · 16h ago
An invasive species (ie. Google, Amazon, and Apple) can out-compete and starve out an entire ecosystem.

Like invasive lionfish, which have no natural enemies in the Florida Keys.

Big tech has destroyed the open web.

Big tech killed the bookstore.

Big tech is now destroying Hollywood.

Big tech is becoming your grocery store and primary care.

They're guardians that keep small companies from growing big. They can buy them out or threaten to pour billions into out-competing.

They're growing into markets they never should have been in, then snuffing out the incumbents.

They're making it impossible for new businesses to enter after them. (You try to build a smartphone. There can be only two.)

Now they're putting price pressure on employees. They're limiting the upside for entrepreneurs and VC firms. They have all the cards, and they tax us and behave like capricious gods.

I'm a capitalist. I think competition is good. But what we have right now isn't a fair playing field.

Big tech needs to be broken up to restore the forest to growth. Thankfully YC and a16z are starting to feel the same way and are issuing statements about this rampant, wanton monopolization.

johnnienaked · 14h ago
Agree. Amazon shouldn't be able to be an online retailer, a drug store, a food store, a web services company, an AI company AND a shipping company
mgh2 · 16h ago
It is based on performance too - it may seem that investment is fueling this for now, but at any time if their profits stop, so does the funding.
js8 · 16h ago
If you want a level playing field for competition, you need some mechanism that will level it. Whatever that is, clearly not laissez-faire.

(I would also say that capitalism is more than a competition of firms, in fact, private ownership of capital is by its nature anti-competitive for citizens.)

johnnienaked · 14h ago
Anti trust legislation has existed for decades, government needs to enforce it
umbra07 · 15h ago
Bailing out large corporations and heavy regulations are not laissez-faire capitalism. We haven't had laissez-faire capitalism for at least a quarter decade (I don't know enough about late 20th-century economics to hold an opinion there).
toofy · 11h ago
If the tech industry and the wider "disrupting" industries haven't been laissez-faire since the 90s then what on earth do you consider laissez-faire?

Governments around the world have let these industries do whatever they want with almost zero oversight and almost zero repercussions for anything. For decades. These companies and industries do whatever they want. Its only in the last few years that a couple of governments have finally started to push back a teeny tiny bit.

umbra07 · 11h ago
Industries cannot be "laissez-faire". Economies, or systems of governance, can be laissez-faire.

> Governments around the world have let these industries do whatever they want with almost zero oversight and almost zero repercussions for anything. For decades. These companies and industries do whatever they want. Its only in the last few years that a couple of governments have finally start push back a teeny tiny bit.

Are you claiming that the tech industry wasn't bound by intellectual property laws until recently?

toofy · 8h ago
i didn’t say those words at all, but since you bring it up, yes, i think palantir, many AI companies trainings, and many many other companies have completely ignored IP laws, yes.

these and surrounding “disruptive” industries have been behaving as if they’re in a laissez-faire environment for a couple of decades at this point. there are certainly strong arguments which would fairly argue “Look at the havoc they have wreaked on us. Like a small child who can’t control themselves, clearly some of them are incapable of self-regulation. it’s time to reign some of them in, and harshly. they’re behaving like uncontrollable spoiled and bratty children setting our house on fire. time for a spanking.” in too many instances those arguments would be on solid ground and tough to earnestly argue they’re wrong.

echelon · 15h ago
Capitalism with strong antitrust enforcement should do the trick.

We've been asleep at the wheel for the better part of a quarter century. We need to dust the rule book off and get back to work.

tonyhart7 · 15h ago
"Big tech is now destroying Hollywood."

now you are overreaching, and just spouting non-sense

echelon · 14h ago
Why is Amazon gobbling up failing studios on the cheap?

Why is Amazon able to buy franchises like Lord of the Rings, advertise them for free on the side of its delivery vans and packaging, then offer the content completely for free to its mail order subscribers? That's dumping and competes with the non-AWS subsidized offerings of non-tech film studios.

Why did Amazon, Apple, and Netflix offshore production to the UK, Eastern Europe, and Asia when the US has infrastructure and subsidies? Almost everyone I know in IATSE is out of work and contemplating leaving the industry for good.

It's a pretty thorough destruction or assimilation if you ask me.

bostik · 11h ago
I suspect you're conflating two things into one.

> Why is Amazon gobbling up failing studios on the cheap?

For their back catalogue. The audiences are after familiarity ("more of the same") and nostalgia. The studios in turn are terrified of taking risks, which is why nearly everything they release has been a sequel, prequel, reboot, or in-universe spinoff for more than 15 years. Buying up a studio gives access and control over their massive quantity of pre-chewed dough to feed their cookie cutter productions.

In this Amazon behaves like a PE entity: buy up for cheap, roll up what they can, reduce quality, and milk for as much money as possible before tossing the empty (& possibly toxic) husk aside.

> Why did Amazon, Apple, and Netflix offshore production to the UK, Eastern Europe, and Asia when the US has infrastructure and subsidies?

They have been following what the studios have been doing for decades. Even in 1990's a good chunk of US productions were often filmed in Canada. (To lower production costs, of course.) UK was known for some of their film studios even before then, so made a good early target when Canada started to become too costly and you needed to move elsewhere.

You can see where this is going. We're already seeing more productions filmed and located in/near China[ß]. As the costs there will eventually creep up too, expect to see locations shift to places like Indonesia, Pakistan and South-Eastern Africa.

ß: Part of China's visibility and increased footprint on films is due to a clear political drive. The CCP has set up structures where they strongly encourage their industry arm to fund film and TV/streaming production elsewhere in the world, buying up influence and dictating how Chinese get portrayed in the scripts.

sanex · 16h ago
Bailouts for auto companies big banks and airlines, etc isn't laissez faire
AbstractH24 · 3h ago
No, but the collateral damage in letting it all burn to the ground overnight is also a problem.

The bailouts aren’t/weren’t problems. Failing to hold big companies and their leaders accountable for risks they took not paying off in a way that doesn’t disrupt low level people is.

sanex · 3h ago
Agree it's not great, and I still drive Chevy's, but laissez-faire capitalism isn't what's keeping a lot of these big legacy companies alive. Tech companies I think might be a different dynamic.
ch4s3 · 17h ago
Large companies generally ask for and build a moat with regulations.
ekianjo · 17h ago
It's not laissez faire. It's lobbying (disguised corruption) at work.
noitpmeder · 16h ago
Nature favors _survival_, at any cost
bigyabai · 16h ago
It doesn't really matter what nature likes or dislikes. If even one person is sufficiently corrupt, they can spoil it for incumbents and newcomers alike: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
anonym29 · 16h ago
There is nothing laissez-faire about intelligence agencies bankrolling "private" startups that help said intelligence agencies circumvent the fourth amendment, nor about the regulatory capture resulting from revolving door between big business and the big government agencies tasked with regulating those businesses, nor about taxpayers bailing out banks or auto companies that made shitty investments or shitty cars, nor about the protectionism of the Jones Act that results in the US producing some of the world's most overpriced naval vessels at the expense of US consumers, nor about the open practice of corporate bribery of the legislature which the US calls "lobbying".

The US does not practice laissez-faire capitalism; we practice a pernicious state corporatism where losses get socialized, gains are privatized, where the trillion dollar companies pay lower tax rates than the mom and pop shops, where the federal government spends more resources spying on their own citizens than they do spying on Russia or China, where members of Congress are for sale when they're not insider trading, but where you will get abducted by plainclothes DHS agents and get deported (even with a valid, legal residency) if you so much as dare to publicly criticize Israel or have the wrong skin color while standing outside of a Home Depot.

There's nothing "natural" about any of this.

windowshopping · 17h ago
And yet invasive species flourish all the time.
keeganpoppen · 15h ago
uhhh in what world would that be called "laissez-faire"?
nradov · 14h ago
Passive investing doesn't keep capital away from smaller companies. When Nvidia stock rises the company doesn't get that money. If they need more capital then they'll have to issue a secondary offering.

Mutual funds don't generally make pre-IPO investments regardless of whether those funds are actively or passively managed.

loeg · 17h ago
> The entire system just helps big companies become even bigger and even more anti competitive. Even just due to their existence (being large and existing). Passive investing is good for the general person but also makes this concentration worse and keeps capital away from smaller companies.

No. There's still plenty of active money doing price discovery; you can't attribute this market concentration to the rise of passive. (And this is self-correcting; as the share of active money shrinks, the reward to active investors for price discovery grows.)

The market is concentrated because that's where active money thinks the future profit is.

plantain · 16h ago
Or is the active money also in the big companies, because even though there are good opportunities elsewhere, the steady ETF flows just keep pumping the big companies even faster?
caminante · 16h ago
To your point, passive indexing critics who under weighted Nvidia, a single stock, haven't had good runs v. peers.

Meanwhile, check out the recent Abivax pop. Drug trial results sent shares to the moon, outperforming the S&P500.

Stock picking is so...damn...hard.

jghn · 16h ago
The way I've been looking at this is that when The Big One happens and the average American loses their shirt via the crash of the giant ETFs, the naysayers who managed to have been invested in the things that don't crash will zig when everyone else is zagging.

However: between now and then they're likely underperforming as you point out. And when it happens most people who believe themselves to be ziggers will have chosen the wrong zig candidate.

I really really worry about the ETF world, but to do anything else puts me at even higher risk.

loeg · 15h ago
No? ETF inflows from passive, market-index funds are evenly distributed across the market, weighted by market cap. They don't concentrate to only the big companies.
boppo1 · 16h ago
Yeah maybe if we hadn't quantitative-eased away earnings pain for companies for 15ish years.
what-the-grump · 16h ago
Please point to the active money in this economy?

The pension reallocations? Blackrock? Bitcoin?

There is a ton of money being siphoned off with zero place to put it. When sv collapsed why does Roku park half a billion dollars in a bank account. Roku has 8th of Mazda’s net worth parked in a bank account… there is unchecked capitalization for the sake of the share price, this money is doing nothing except buying up competition.

ttul · 16h ago
The Roku example perfectly illustrates the deeper issue here - we're seeing a systemic breakdown in capital allocation that goes beyond the passive/active debate.

The real problem is a feedback loop: large companies get cheaper capital → they can afford to hoard cash and make defensive acquisitions → this reduces competition and innovation → which paradoxically makes them even "safer" investments → reinforcing their cost-of-capital advantage.

Meanwhile, the "missing middle" gets squeezed from both ends. Small companies can access some capital through VC/growth equity, but medium enterprises ($10M-$1B revenue) face a brutal gap. They're too big for most VCs, too small for institutional debt markets, and banks are increasingly consolidated and risk-averse.

(I am so personally familiar with the missing middle in my day job)

This isn't just about market efficiency - it's about market structure. When a streaming company parks $500M in bank accounts instead of investing in content or technology, that's not rational capital allocation. It's defensive positioning enabled by cheap capital and regulatory capture. There are many many lazy companies sitting on a cash machine structure with no decent ideas on how to grow.

Some potential fixes: - Tax policy that penalizes excessive cash hoarding; eliminating the tax deduction on interest would encourage companies to hold less cash by making cash more expansive

- Regulatory limits on horizontal acquisitions above certain market share thresholds

- Public development banks focused on the missing middle (like Germany's KfW)

- Capital gains tax advantages for investments held in companies under certain size thresholds

The irony is that this concentration might ultimately hurt passive investors too - less competition means less innovation and slower long-term growth across the entire economy.

com2kid · 15h ago
Counterpoint -

Nearly every startup I've talked to recently (last year or so) has been cash flow positive after just series A (or sometimes after just a seed round!)

Companies are pursuing smart business strategies and prioritizing healthy rates of growth over "hire everyone we can and figure out how to make a profit later". I'm seeing a lot of very focused businesses that are meeting customers demand right away and solving real problems. They aren't billion dollar problems, but they are profitable problems to solve. I wonder how the startup ecosystem will change if VCs start seeing 60% of companies making a healthy profit after a couple years, vs the historical trend of waiting a decade and hoping 1 company strikes it big. 60% of companies growing 10-20x ROI seems ... Not bad?

One problem of large mega corps is they don't even bother to go after new ideas that aren't multi-billion dollars markets. It used to be Microsoft would make a bunch of senior engineers filthy rich, they'd go boot strap a new company, and if the idea took off, Microsoft would aquire them again. Some people in the 90s/early 2000s pulled that off multiple times!

Mutjake · 13h ago
If some business is defensively buying off all the competition, that’s an easy ATM for a serial entrepreneur, especially if the large business is price gouging: found a competitor, grow it e.g. with some like-minded funding, sell it at a premium. Wait for the clauses of the contract to run out, and rinse and repeat.

The defensive acquisitions can work on domains with gravity effects to a degree, but those are domains are far from being the total market.

bigbadfeline · 5h ago
> found a competitor, grow it e.g. with some like-minded funding, sell it at a premium. Wait for the clauses of the contract to run out, and rinse and repeat.

Unrealistic, that strategy has no history of success. MariaDB tried... still wimpy.

> The defensive acquisitions can work on domains with gravity effects to a degree, but those are domains are far from being the total market.

Not so. Market size and inertia, connections, red tape and political weight are always present, fundamental forces of "gravity". They are the total market, at least the part of it that matters.

More importantly, even if your strategy of "feeding the machine for personal gain" did work, it amounts only to feeding the machine without changing its nature or direction. That strategy can benefit few individuals but it can't fix any of the issues discussed here.

jppope · 16h ago
Size is also a disadvantage in a market, growing by 2% when you are a $1M company is easy, growing by 2% when you are a $100B company is hard. Corporate managers have an embedded growth obligation to maintain both their position and the company's position. This is part of the reason they are vulnerable to new market entrants.
benreesman · 16h ago
Do you want a dysfunctional soviet central party planning committee?

Because this is how you get a late Soviet central committee.

bigbadfeline · 6h ago
> Do you want a dysfunctional soviet central party planning committee?

I did not write the parent of your comment but I went back to re-read it and I didn't see any hints of central planning. In fact, the parent proposed no solution, it only pointed out a process of continued monopolization which, if unchecked, would lead to something resembling the monopoly of the late Soviet central committee over their economy.

In a sense, your comment inverted the meaning of the parent.

benreesman · 58m ago
I was agreeing with GP I just didn't annotate my Archer reference well. My bad.
CursedSilicon · 15h ago
"Everything I don't like is COMMUNISM!"
thescriptkiddie · 17h ago
maybe replacing everyone's defined-benefit pensions with 401(k)s and IRAs wasn't such a good idea
tick_tock_tick · 16h ago
Nah pensions were always a horrible thing that ruined so many lives. No one's retirement should be bound to the long term success of the company they happened to work for.
theodius · 2h ago
It wasn’t. Most people aren’t market experts so handing them the keys wasn’t a great idea. They should’ve just cracked down on pensions and made them more responsible (which they did after 401(k) creation).
jltsiren · 15h ago
Defined benefit pensions are also invested in the market. It would be better to have Social Security with higher income limits, and with regular adjustments to contributions and retirement ages to ensure that the system is in balance. And something like IRA on top of that. Then you would have two different systems with different failure modes.
jandrewrogers · 16h ago
Defined benefit plans are the same thing with misaligned incentives and more middlemen taking a cut.

Defined contribution plans didn’t spring out of the ether on their own. They were a reaction to evident rampant risks and deficiencies of defined benefit plans even after many failed attempts at reducing that risk via regulation.

lotsofpulp · 16h ago
Why do you think the defined benefit fund managers are better than the collective market for preventing concentration?

Also, what about the increased risk of corruption leading to underfunded DB pensions? Which is apparently near certain, given that pretty much every defined benefit pension fund across the US is underfunded.

No comments yet

IgorPartola · 17h ago
Why? Every barber and shoe maker and Uber driver I know are financial wizards that can navigate the stock market as well as the professionals.

/s

IgorPartola · 17h ago
You want to slow this stuff down? We now have the tech for the Fed, the central bank, to give everyone a bank account directly. It is 100% secure because it is issued by the central bank and it has a number of amazing benefits:

1. You earn interest at the Fed’s rate. So basically why would you keep your money with Chase earning 0.25% maybe when you can earn easily 10x that. So everyone pretty much moves to this new system.

2. This eliminated speculation. The banks can no longer turn $1 into $30 by repeatedly borrowing and lending. But it is important to slowly grow the money supply. So the Fed can just no questions asked deposit a predefined sum of money every month into everyone’s account.

3. Your transactions are free and guaranteed.

But of course this would cut out a whole lot of banks and other financial institutions out of the loop and so it will never happen.

boppo1 · 16h ago
What are you talking about, "the Fed's rate" 10x what chase offers?
loeg · 15h ago
Current SOFR (Fed rate) is 4.34%: https://www.newyorkfed.org/markets/reference-rates/sofr

Banks will offer low yield on cash if you don't go looking for better yield, but it's easy enough to find good yield: money market accounts. E.g., VMFXX throws off 4.21%, which is reasonably close to 4.34.

(I don't agree with the general thrust of GP's argument, just clarifying on some neutral facts.)

daft_pink · 4h ago
ETFs are really just mutual funds with better liquidity and more opportunity to trade. I don’t think it should be shocking that they hold so many assets since mutual funds hold an enormous number of assets as well.
daedrdev · 17h ago
This is the end result of uncompetitive active management charging such high fees
sleepyhead · 16h ago
No it's not. Actively managed funds will in most cases not beat an index fund. Investorers have learned this and has chosen passive funds. This together with more people investing in funds has increased the size of passive ETFs in the market.
AbstractH24 · 3h ago
Do you have proof of this over long time horizons? Say 10 or 20 years.

And the odds of picking the right managed etf over index fund?

daedrdev · 16h ago
They don't beat index funds because their fees eat their gains

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roncesvalles · 16h ago
Usually those active managers stay in business by saying they get "superior risk-adjusted returns" even though they didn't outright get better returns.

This is, of course, changing the goal post because a portfolio with 90% S&P 500 and 10% cash will also appear "superior risk-adjusted" than 100% S&P 500. Sharpe ratio is the most misunderstood metric invented by humanity.

ArtTimeInvestor · 14h ago
Not sure if that is due to ETFs.

US companies have great reporting. Every quarter you get a nice report with GAAP numbers. In Europe, for example, reporting is less frequent and murkier. Reports often don't even include standardized net earnings.

Top US companies like Microsoft, Google, Apple, Nvidia, Tesla, Meta, all have intelligent, driven, forward looking CEOs. Most other companies have CEOs asleep at the wheel. Can anyone name a smaller public company or a public company outside the US with a highly driven, forward looking CEO?

bandrami · 16h ago
This is related to the somewhat troubling fact that globally, shares held exceed shares issued by about 50%. (And before you flee to gold, gold held exceeds gold in existence by about 100%.)
OsrsNeedsf2P · 15h ago
Do you have a source to back up these claims? A quick search doesn't yield anything
jandrewrogers · 16h ago
How are you defining that? For example, more shares can be borrowed than exist in a company without creating excess shares.
dustyharddrive · 16h ago
Is there a direct indexing service that doesn't have exorbitant fees?
klodolph · 16h ago
“I want ETFs and low fees” -> https://www.bogleheads.org, there are various articles describing which funds to pick. (I’m thinking by “indexing service” you mean index fund?) Bogle was the founder of Vanguard and argued that low fees were better than active management; the “bogleheads” are the community that follow that advice.
dustyharddrive · 15h ago
I mean a custom index, but not one of those fintech apps with small limits on the number of stocks.
highwaylights · 15h ago
I'm sure I'm missing something but does direct indexing really solve anything for you in this instance?

If you're in any of the main ETFs or index funds you're getting really cheap access to what's basically the same list of stocks you'd get with direct indexing. If you're trying to get equal-weighting of an index there's ETFs for that too, but that would mean you're betting more on companies without the ability to benefit from significant hegemony and the madding crowd of index fund influx, which seems to be where most of the growth comes from these days.

dustyharddrive · 15h ago
One might wish to avoid overbought and uniquely unethical companies.

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verteu · 15h ago
Wealthfront does US Direct Indexing for tax-loss harvesting, they're 25bps/yr.
siilats · 1h ago
Or you just buy the largest stock in each one of the 7 largest sectors and it pretty much correlates to the sp500. ETF have some nasty hidden fees related to the etf price being more expensive than the basket when you buy and less than the basket when you sell.

Sector Company 1 Company 2 Information Technology Microsoft (MSFT) Apple (AAPL) Financials JPMorgan Chase (JPM) Berkshire Hathaway (BRK.B) Health Care Johnson & Johnson (JNJ) UnitedHealth Group (UNH) Consumer Discretionary Amazon (AMZN) Tesla (TSLA) Communication Services Alphabet (GOOGL) Meta (META) Industrials Boeing (BA) Caterpillar (CAT) Energy ExxonMobil (XOM) Chevron (CVX)

Jaxkr · 16h ago
FXAIX
mtoner23 · 16h ago
Vanguard?
johnnienaked · 15h ago
The next crash is gonna be a doozy