I see some of this, from the point of view that it's going to be cheaper to create bespoke solutions for problems. And perhaps a "neoSaaS" company is one that, from a very bare bones idea, can create your own implementation.
But, at the same time, there are two issues:
- Companies can be really complex. The "create a system and parametrise it" idea has been done before, and those parametrisation processes are pretty intensive and expensive. And the resulting project is not always to be guaranteed to be correct. Software development is a discovery process. The expensive part is way more in the discovery than in the writing the code.
- The best software around is the one that's opinionated. It doesn't fit all the use cases, but it presents you a way to operate that's consistent and forces you to think and operate in certain way. It guides you how to work and, once going downstream, they are a joy to work with.
This requires a consistent product view and enforcing, knowing when to say "no" and what use cases not to cover, as they'll be detrimental from the experience.
It's very difficult to create software like that, and trying to fit your use case I'll guarantee it won't happen.
These two things tension any creation of software, and I don't think they'll go away just because we have a magical tool that can code fast.
runroader · 6m ago
Sure, if by SaaS you mean hooking together software that is essentially websites. Major industrial software that costs thousands per seat like Ansys or Dassault are not getting replaced by something that "AI" can cobble together.
The parts of SAP that's composable workflow stuff? Doubt it, because the types of ABAP workflows in SAP that might be "malleable" are the sort of stuff that often legally requires correctness and reproducibility - kinda the exact opposite of a good LLM use-case.
And as much as I'd like to actually own my software, SaaS is preferable for major corporations for lots of legal and accounting reasons like easier revenue recognition. They're going to keep pushing it because it makes all the parts of being a software company that don't include writing the actual software easier.
cyco130 · 43m ago
For six years I worked in a SaaS startup that built an applicant tracking system (a tool to manage recruitment efforts in big/mid-sized companies) tailored for the local market of the country we lived in. My experience tells me that our main value was in forcing them to rethink their recruitment processes, not adapting to their existing ones that were usually all over the place.
As much as I want to believe the opposite to be true as a “power user”, good tools often force you to adopt better practices, not the other way around.
tablet · 42m ago
The problem here is in definition. Context is quite diverse and better practice for team A is an absolute disaster for team B.
cyco130 · 2m ago
In fewer words: It was already a fairly flexible and customizable tool. But then came a time when a client requested faster horses we could show them our car instead and they recognized the value. (And occasionally, when _they_ requested a car instead of our faster horses, _we_ recognized the value and implemented it).
cyco130 · 11m ago
Absolutely. When we started growing (I was employee #3, we were about 20 people when I left), we didn't use our own product for our own needs. It wasn't designed for a tiny startup, it would be like building a sand castle with a bulldozer.
But we started as a "boutique" company that implemented everything requested by our then small number of clients (mainly out of desperation, we were self-funded and we didn't have much leeway, we needed those clients). It was as flexible as it gets before the LLM times.
But after a while, you start noticing patterns, an understanding of what works and what doesn't in a given context. Our later customers rarely requested a feature that we didn't already have or we didn't have a better alternative of. It's not like we had a one-size-fits-all solution that we forced on everyone. We offered a few alternative ways of working that fit different contexts (hiring an airline pilot is a very different context than hiring a flight attendant). And in time, this know-how started to become our most important value proposition.
At some point we even started joking about leaving the software business and offering recruitment consulting services instead.
101008 · 54m ago
A lot of people been saying this lately, that LLMs are going to make SaaS obsolete because you will be able to build the alternative yourself without the need to pay.
But (and I'll copy & paste a comment I wrote a few days ago) I disagree. This existed way before LLM. Open source alternatives to most products are already available. And install them and deploy them is much easier than do it with LLMs, and you get updates, etc.
People don't want the responsability to keep them updated, secured, deployed, etc. Paying a small amount will always be more convenient than to maintain it yourself. The issue was never coding it.
tablet · 48m ago
This is not what the article is about. Main idea is that rigid software can finally be replaced by flexible, since flexibility is no longer such expensive
prmph · 31m ago
Nope, anyone saying this does not understand fundamentally what software is. This so-called malleable software is a recipe for chaos.
87553530896046 · 21m ago
Not everyone can be as enlightened as gurus like you.
bryanrasmussen · 43m ago
hey yeah, there's no need to have a payment provider to take care of all your taxes being paid correctly and on time. We have AI!
This would be one of the greatest entertainment events of the 21st century! Shame about all the destruction that will happen as a consequence of course, but ...entertainment!
actionfromafar · 39m ago
Whole governments run in that mode now.
bryanrasmussen · 28m ago
Our Governments AI says we never paid our taxes, Our AI says it paid our taxes, our CEO says nobody should pay taxes, and our VC's AI says we're broke and a Unicorn at the same time.
anonzzzies · 25m ago
For myself yes. I just have claude code running and it's replacing everything i'm doing company and personal wise with custom stuff. However, most people, like my colleagues/employees, want rigidity and do not want to learn new stuff generally. They want to focus on completing their tasks and don't want to have a quicksand saas underneath them. If it helps completing tasks faster then maybe.
Also training new people is annoying when things change too often; people can already use Jira/Linear/Monday/whatever , they don't want some completely flexible thing that is malleable.
Also, people are not all perfectionists with long term goals and visions. People who 'change' some part of their work flow that helps them NOW; they won't care about speed, scaling, deployment etc, so they will do something to make their work easier and then leave it there and possibly ignore it forever to rot. Which might have all kinds of fun implications.
I guess when we have AGI with a few 10 million+ context window for cheap, it will be different but the current llms would just leave a massive amount of rot all over the place, quickly forgotten and not usable by anyone but the original creator.
rsav · 51m ago
Is this just low code all over again, except this time with some nondeterminism thrown in?
s1mplicissimus · 28m ago
I would put the current LLM coding hype more in the "scaffolding" box, but surely with some nondeterminism thrown in ;)
knowannoes · 1h ago
Malleable software will eat you whole.
None of this makes any sense. Do you know how computers work?
This "AI" summer has turned into a drug fueled orgy of magical thinking. I am at my tether's end. I need to leave this industry to preserve my sanity at this point.
misiu1 · 1h ago
where to
fuckaj · 15m ago
puppy training on a farm
tablet · 10m ago
Perfect choice
lagrange77 · 12m ago
This is comparing two orthogonal properties.
SaaS is a business model while malleable vs. rigid is a property of the software itself.
faeyanpiraat · 59m ago
Rigidity helps in trusting the system.
Malleability / flexibility can introduce unreliability.
We need to get over a hump, where software becomes more humanlike, but just like with good engineers over time we can probably arrive at a place where we can trust our new malleable solutions just like a new colleague turning out to be great.
mhogers · 31m ago
data layer > business logic layer > presentation layer
I believe the presentation/analytics layer has become malleable, possibly parts of the business logic layer - you still need a higher % of trustworthiness than LLMs can provide for parts of the business and data layers.
firemelt · 54m ago
not everyone tangled himself with fibery or linear
But, at the same time, there are two issues:
- Companies can be really complex. The "create a system and parametrise it" idea has been done before, and those parametrisation processes are pretty intensive and expensive. And the resulting project is not always to be guaranteed to be correct. Software development is a discovery process. The expensive part is way more in the discovery than in the writing the code.
- The best software around is the one that's opinionated. It doesn't fit all the use cases, but it presents you a way to operate that's consistent and forces you to think and operate in certain way. It guides you how to work and, once going downstream, they are a joy to work with. This requires a consistent product view and enforcing, knowing when to say "no" and what use cases not to cover, as they'll be detrimental from the experience. It's very difficult to create software like that, and trying to fit your use case I'll guarantee it won't happen.
These two things tension any creation of software, and I don't think they'll go away just because we have a magical tool that can code fast.
The parts of SAP that's composable workflow stuff? Doubt it, because the types of ABAP workflows in SAP that might be "malleable" are the sort of stuff that often legally requires correctness and reproducibility - kinda the exact opposite of a good LLM use-case.
And as much as I'd like to actually own my software, SaaS is preferable for major corporations for lots of legal and accounting reasons like easier revenue recognition. They're going to keep pushing it because it makes all the parts of being a software company that don't include writing the actual software easier.
As much as I want to believe the opposite to be true as a “power user”, good tools often force you to adopt better practices, not the other way around.
But we started as a "boutique" company that implemented everything requested by our then small number of clients (mainly out of desperation, we were self-funded and we didn't have much leeway, we needed those clients). It was as flexible as it gets before the LLM times.
But after a while, you start noticing patterns, an understanding of what works and what doesn't in a given context. Our later customers rarely requested a feature that we didn't already have or we didn't have a better alternative of. It's not like we had a one-size-fits-all solution that we forced on everyone. We offered a few alternative ways of working that fit different contexts (hiring an airline pilot is a very different context than hiring a flight attendant). And in time, this know-how started to become our most important value proposition.
At some point we even started joking about leaving the software business and offering recruitment consulting services instead.
But (and I'll copy & paste a comment I wrote a few days ago) I disagree. This existed way before LLM. Open source alternatives to most products are already available. And install them and deploy them is much easier than do it with LLMs, and you get updates, etc.
People don't want the responsability to keep them updated, secured, deployed, etc. Paying a small amount will always be more convenient than to maintain it yourself. The issue was never coding it.
This would be one of the greatest entertainment events of the 21st century! Shame about all the destruction that will happen as a consequence of course, but ...entertainment!
Also training new people is annoying when things change too often; people can already use Jira/Linear/Monday/whatever , they don't want some completely flexible thing that is malleable.
Also, people are not all perfectionists with long term goals and visions. People who 'change' some part of their work flow that helps them NOW; they won't care about speed, scaling, deployment etc, so they will do something to make their work easier and then leave it there and possibly ignore it forever to rot. Which might have all kinds of fun implications.
I guess when we have AGI with a few 10 million+ context window for cheap, it will be different but the current llms would just leave a massive amount of rot all over the place, quickly forgotten and not usable by anyone but the original creator.
None of this makes any sense. Do you know how computers work?
This "AI" summer has turned into a drug fueled orgy of magical thinking. I am at my tether's end. I need to leave this industry to preserve my sanity at this point.
SaaS is a business model while malleable vs. rigid is a property of the software itself.
Malleability / flexibility can introduce unreliability.
We need to get over a hump, where software becomes more humanlike, but just like with good engineers over time we can probably arrive at a place where we can trust our new malleable solutions just like a new colleague turning out to be great.
I believe the presentation/analytics layer has become malleable, possibly parts of the business logic layer - you still need a higher % of trustworthiness than LLMs can provide for parts of the business and data layers.
lmao
malleable software? what a joke