US thinks they are irreplaceable and the center of this world.
At this end this just pushes India, Vietnam and China into the arms of the rest of the world.
Then US is going to be left alone with their precious pure home-made products like Twinkies, Spam, American cheese or Budweiser.
The great brands are going to go more and more offshore, like Apple or Google already does.
nailer · 34m ago
Vietnam is one of the first countries to get a trade deal. India will get one when they decide to stop funding the Russian war machine.
lenkite · 8m ago
Considering that US is now funding the Pakistani war machine, India knows which side to pick.
throw0101c · 18m ago
> Vietnam is one of the first countries to get a trade deal.
Mexico and Canada also had trade deals, which went from Trump calling it "the largest, most significant, modern, and balanced trade agreement in history":
They already made it pretty clear that if America forces them to choose, they pick Russia.
bamboozled · 16m ago
It's really wild...a billion people in that country too, not a smart move.
pydry · 5m ago
Calling Trump's bluff is rarely an unwise move.
China was similarly unmoved by the threats America made.
Europe was moved and they got an absolutely horrible trade deal.
graemep · 33m ago
Into whose arms precisely? India into China's? Not likely! This is what the US government is counting on - they only need to be a better alternative than China.
The US has a lot of power, that only China comes close to matching. The dominance of the US in certain fields (like IT hardware, software and services, payment services) makes most countries dependent on the US.
> The great brands are going to go more and more offshore, like Apple or Google already does.
Offshore what? Manufacturing? US tariffs do not affect offshoring to sell to other countries, but the US is a huge market for all those brands.
7952 · 14m ago
Surely hardware has much more of an economic moat than software, services, and payment services. And the manufacturing of that is dominated by China and to a lesser extent Korea and Taiwan. All of whom have an interest in seeing hardware take a greater cut of value and for software to be commoditised. And it is common and possible for powerful countries or regions to build alternatives. India already has a payment system that is larger than Visa for digital and includes P2P and P2M.
lm28469 · 18m ago
100 years ago the British Empire ruled the world, today it's a small island nobody care about.
People underestimate how far things can move
bamboozled · 25m ago
With all due respect, can you outline why the current version of America is actually better than China? I mean China has major issues but I'm starting to lose sight of what makes the USA a better more trustworthy ally who protects freedom and democracy? I'm not saying "it's over" but there are a lot of troubling signs it's going in the wrong direction fast.
In the case of India and China, I think it's more of a case of India becoming more independent, which is "good" on the one hand ,but probably terrible for American hegemony and they will just side more with Russia and continue to buy resources from them.
I'm not sure if Americans can really grasp how their soft power around the world is vaporizing by the day. Even at it's peak, probably Obama era, I wouldn't say America was default popular, now, I don't know what to say but it's really looking as if people are just deciding to move on from the American experiment as we realize it might not be coming back. Look at places like Switzerland cancelling orders of F35s, just a coincidence ?
I guess smaller countries aren't being left with much choice, that's the fundamental issue.
Edit: I'm not worried about the down votes, but I also think it's sad and maybe even a sign that people have sore feelings about reality?
safety1st · 15m ago
I appreciate that you asked the question and actually want to learn about foreign affairs between two non Western countries! So to just scratch the surface, China and India had a full blown war in the 1960s and have had armed conflict on their shared border many times, most recently in 2021.
Meanwhile China actually INVADED Vietnam in 1979, four years after the US-Vietnam War ended!
Both of these countries view China as an immediate potential military threat because it is one, they have fought actual wars with it.
It's so wild how there are all these Western liberals who think Trump is somehow worse than this, I don't even like the guy but these people obviously don't know shit about the history of the region. The history is China warring with these countries!
lenkite · 12m ago
Do note that the 2020-21 conflict was not a "truly armed" conflict per-se. Unless you count biological, human arms with the occasional use of sticks. Most of it involved muscle power and no firearms. I personally find it remarkable that two large nations can have a border conflict without a single gunshot fired.
bamboozled · 9m ago
I know the history, but then there is just cold hard current day reality you have to reckon with. I don't felt like you answered my question. Vietnam is going to be looking at the way the USA is treating it's allies right now and thinking seriously about the way forwards. If you think they're not asking themselves some pretty hard questions, I think you might be a bit deluded.
I mean, do you truly think the USA will come to Vietnam's side if it's invaded by China? Honestly? look at all the whining about helping Ukraine and you think the current administration will enter a hot war with China over Vietnam? 90% of Americans wouldn't even know where that is.
Regarding India and Russia, they're already allies, they already do significant trade, I'm not sure what you're reading but I don't think India is by default America first. They nuclear armed, so they have that "f u" card to play as well.
I'm not based in the west either sorry. I wouldn't say I'm a "western liberal", I see you've already made up your mind though.
CoastalCoder · 1h ago
Friendly reminder to please not confuse the Trump administration with all U.S. citizens.
About half of us are shocked and revolted by pretty much everything he says and does.
mrheosuper · 1h ago
For all i care, he represents all the US citizen. He is your president.
CoastalCoder · 1h ago
I understand the sentiment, and I can't control how fine of a distinction you're making.
In fact, you could legitimately blame people like me for not going further to stop the madness.
In my particular case, that could cost me my job, which means losing health insurance for my family and myself. That's a choice I'm making, for sure. To that extent I'm culpable for this situation.
LadyCailin · 1h ago
I’ve aleast applied some logic for all countries with shitty leaders. Russia, or Israel, or Gaza (Hamas) for instance. Who is responsible for the shittyness done by the governments of these countries? The governments, obviously. But when harm starts going to other nations, who is most responsible for stopping that? Surely the answer must be the citizens of that country? We can’t expect, say, Canada, or Zimbabwe, to be the morally responsible people and expect them to go in and stage a coup. If they do, maybe that’s fine, but they can’t be held culpable if they do nothing. The citizens however, must be, as there otherwise is no one else to stop the evil. Now, I include the US in this list too.
So, while it’s true that US citizens are not directly responsible for Trump, there is still a dereliction of ethical duty happening, in my opinion, assuming we agree that Trump is harming other people unnecessarily (which, naturally, many Trump supporters would disagree with.)
Of course, even if I’m right, what does that mean in practice? That random Americans on vacation in Italy can be snatched up and sent to The Hague? No, obviously not. I think the most practical effect is that this should give all Americans pause to think, and to at minimum ensure that they are not contributing to the problem in any way, and better yet, fighting the problem in some way.
Of course, this doesn’t even begin to address the fact that only 1/3 or so of Americans voted for Harris, which was the only choice that actually could have worked to stop Trump. 1/3 voted for him directly, and of course they are responsible, but another 1/3 couldn’t be bothered to vote, so it is actually a supermajority of the American people that are shitty, either because they couldn’t care less about other people, or they actively contributed to the problem.
petralithic · 40m ago
Not everywhere is a democracy though. I'd hesitate to call even the US a democracy and therefore the government is independent of the will of the people.
xethos · 11m ago
For sure. When it's Bush, Obama, Reagan or Kennedy, America is the leader of the Free World and what every other nation should strive to be. When it's Trump the government doesn't accurately reflect the will of the people. /s
Like sure, I get that the above is propaganda spread by the machine, but good luck telling that to the Europeans that have dealt with Americans that believe it; furthermore, I think it's telling that a decade ago, Canadians would wear emblems to distinguish themselves from Americans, lest they be confused for the egocentric and rude Americans.
The first paragraph is propaganda, but Americans haven't exactly denied it, nor have they been humble about their place in the world, or the flaws in their nation. Their actions have instead left many of us of the opinion that Americans actually believe it.
dotandgtfo · 1h ago
What a horrible take. I feel compelled to say that in my experience people in northern Europe can empathize with and separate the population from a dysfunctional two-party political system captured by capital.
tene80i · 1h ago
You ought to care more then, wouldn’t you say? An American has just pleaded with you not to have this attitude and you’ve thrown it back in their face. Hardly a mature attitude or an open mind.
mrheosuper · 59m ago
I don't like how people separate themself from "society" when it's convenient for them. You are part of it, whether you like it or not.
And last time i check, Trump won most of the swing state, so a large part of US believe in Trump.
AlecSchueler · 57m ago
It's also the second time he won.
tene80i · 45m ago
The comment above says “Friendly reminder to please not confuse the Trump administration with all U.S. citizens.”
Nobody is saying he doesn’t officially represent the USA. It’s about not assuming ALL Americans agree with what the administration is doing. A reasonable ask, no?
petralithic · 38m ago
You can say that about any country though, of course the leader doesn't represent all of the population, just a majority, if they're a democracy, which is rare these day.
mrheosuper · 34m ago
The Americans expect the world to constantly make distinctions for them while American foreign policy affects everyone regardless of who individual Americans voted for.
lazide · 1h ago
The US is just experiencing what every Russian, Iraqi, Afghani, etc. has been dealing with for a long time.
It’s FAFO writ large, and the US has been ‘exceptional’ for so long they think they can avoid the FO part.
tene80i · 1h ago
But that’s exactly the point - nobody thinks of the citizens of those countries as being unified behind or synonymous with whoever is in charge.
lazide · 22m ago
Clearly you’ve never met people?
And never seen news discussions, sanctions, seen immigration policies, etc?
It may not been as bad and direct as discrimination against the Japanese in WW2, but a ton of people absolutely do discriminate that way.
And let’s not talk about Muslims (or anyone with a turban, like Sikhs) post 9/11.
Ylpertnodi · 59m ago
> Hardly a mature attitude or an open mind.
Not gp, but: sorry, Americans, for whatever voter turnouts, gerrymandering, secret deals, etc, etc.
He's your president. Twice.
Ekaros · 41m ago
In the end as outside I see that you have allowed system to end in place where very divisive candidate won. Maybe if decades ago you had worked towards direction where there was more than two options it could be different... And if the other side would have fielded something that got the other side as passionate as Trump does with his base.
Whatever you say at least Trump has truly passionate base. Or will next Democrat nominee be Harris?
UltraSane · 25m ago
For this lifelong US citizen Trump's death will be one of the happiest days of my life.
lostlogin · 1h ago
> About half of us are shocked and revolted by pretty much everything he says and does.
Only 65% voted, so it’s probably safe to say that only 35-40% of the population support him.
So 35% voted the option "I'm fine with whatever comes" so a blanket approval can be assumed to whoever won, i.e. in this case an implicit support for Trump.
immibis · 48m ago
It's also safe to say only 35-40% of the population don't like him, and of those, perhaps only half are actually mad or upset or thought about what he would do, and the other half merely voted against him because they always vote blue.
bsder · 1h ago
> About half of us are shocked and revolted by pretty much everything he says and does.
I'd put that at less than 1/3, actually.
The problem is that there is a good third of the US that seems to be completely oblivious that bad shit is going down until it shows up and kicks them in the balls personally.
This is, sadly, neither new nor limited to the US.
"It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become a prey to the active. The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt." John Philpot Curran--1790
ViewTrick1002 · 1h ago
Based on the turnout you have 36% who silently approves the result since they didn’t turn up for the election.
Followed by 32% of the voting population which strongly approves of the result.
The ”not all of us” is a very tempting copout but it is quite evident that the American psyche is in general aligned with Trump.
xvedejas · 58m ago
Very convenient that you are able to rebrand apathy as approval. They're not actually the same, however.
petralithic · 36m ago
If you don't vote, don't complain about the outcome. It is de facto approval with the result regardless of how one spins it.
immibis · 46m ago
Your intentions don't matter, only your actions. The fact is that about two thirds of the population voted that they were okay with a Trump presidency, and slightly less than that with a Harris presidency.
churchill · 51m ago
So when Russia invaded Ukraine, the West insisted that all Russian citizens had to suffer for their leaders’ decisions — but when the U.S. bullies its own allies, suddenly it’s just a factional problem, and we’re told ‘that’s not really who we are’?
buyucu · 59m ago
Trump was democratically elected. Twice. Sure, all US Citizens are not like this, but a lot of them are.
JPKab · 41m ago
Ironically, you are responding to a person who has the attitudes that his supporters believe the entire world has:
They don't like Americans unless they are engaging in unequal trade where they sell goods at vastly lower tariff rates than they apply to US imports.
They have no problem with China destroying their fisheries, and joining with India to buy tons of Russian oil and finance the destruction of Ukraine, while simultaneously emitting vastly more CO2 than the US does.
They just want free defense, one sided "free trade" and the minute they stop getting it, they hate everyone in this country.
I don't agree with this attitude, but the commenter absolutely embodies it. This whole thread embodies it. It's the kind of thing I would send to a bunch of swing voters to persuade them to continue to support these policies.
defrost · 24m ago
> while simultaneously emitting vastly more CO2 than the US does.
"vastly" is well out of place here.
Currently, on a per annum* basis, China is the number one emitter, the United States is number two. China currently puts out ~ 2.5 the total of the US.
* less than 3x is hardly "vastly more"
* on a per capita basis China emits less per person than the US.
* Much of China's emissions are due the US offshoring manufacture, a large chunk the CO2 rising from China is a result of US consumer demand.
Moreover, the current yearly outputs are merely the bleeding edge of the CO2 problem - it's the cumulative total that is responsible for the increased insulation that is trapping an increasing amount of heat energy.
On that front the US is responsible for more of the total raised by human activity than China.
Listen to yourself. That is absolutely ridiculous. This is not a serious conversation. I won't be replying to anymore of your comments.
JPKab · 12m ago
None of you are responding to the fact that China and India are buying Russian oil and financing the thousands of dead every week.
Per capita means nothing to the planet. The temperature climbs regardless, and China has a choice and it's chosen power plants even if India doesn't. They are building coal plants every single day and you don't say anything because you are a product of a left-wing movement that views state capitalism as an offshoot of communism and therefore positive. That's why your movement never has anything critical to say about China. You only care about Muslims if they are being murdered by capitalists. But the uyghurs can just go pound sand. They are literally having forced birth control and have lower birth rates than any Muslim population on the planet and you sit there and ignore it.
Havoc · 1h ago
And don't think they're going to be the last. Yesterday got a message from an influencer merch shop basically saying no more shipping to US. They're just over it.
pavlov · 2h ago
Many European postal carriers have now suspended all package deliveries to the US.
The problem isn’t new tariffs, but how the USA wants to collect them. It’s mentioned in the article:
“IMAG's Ms Muth said the overarching concern is that many postal carriers are not set up to ‘collect and remit’ the duties specified by Donald Trump's executive order.”
Normally tariffs are collected by the receiving country when a package arrives. Trump wants foreign countries’ postal carriers to collect US tariffs and somehow remit the money to the American authorities… But there are no systems set up for this. The Americans haven’t even provided a way to send those remittances.
Obviously this is not something that postal carriers around the world can just spin up in two weeks, just because the Americans suddenly decided they want foreign post offices to collect their import taxes. So the only option is not to ship to America at all.
Symbiote · 1h ago
When the EU [1] implemented these systems they announced it years in advance, delayed the deadline due to Covid disruption, and it's still optional — the alternative is for the receiving post carrier to charge the taxes and an administration fee.
But using this system, I can order something from Ali Express for €10 + €2.50 VAT, pay Ali Express €12.50, and they send the VAT to Denmark. The tracking number on the package proves the VAT was paid, and the package sails through customs.
(There's also a UK system, very similar, but I have forgotten the name of it.)
>Normally tariffs are collected by the receiving country when a package arrives.
For good reason too, the sender engaged the carrier. The receiver has no business relationship with the carrier, so they don't have an opportunity to pay any tariff to the carrier.
This is especially relevant when the carrier engages a local contractor for the last leg of a delivery, because they don't even have a presence there.
albumen · 1h ago
It's better if the sender includes tariffs/import duties in the price the customer pays originally, but it's easy to set up a system where the receiving country collects taxes on incoming deliveries. Ireland has it: https://www.anpost.com/Post-Parcels/Receiving/Pay-Customs-Ch...
I get an SMS saying that my parcel has arrived in the country but I have to pay customs before it's released for delivery, done via the site above.
michaelt · 1h ago
When I order things from China to the UK, on AliExpress, they arrive 'delivered duty paid' - i.e. aliexpress collects certain taxes from me at checkout, then the item doesn't get held up at the border.
So there does seem to be some mechanism for closing the buyer-seller-taxman loop. Unfortunately I have yet to find a reliable way to send things using this system.
Cordiali · 1h ago
I was gonna mention that, but I felt I was waffling on a bit, so I deleted it!
We've got the same thing with GST, basically like VAT or sales tax. So that'll appear on the invoice from AliExpress or Steam or wherever.
Businesses have a threshold before they need to charge it though. If they're under that threshold (like a small business), but the value of goods is over another threshold, then the receiver has to pay GST.
If I remember correctly, customs would mail me a letter, and I'd pay it like a tariff. Which brings me back to the main point, that's just that the carrier has nothing to do with it. It's ridiculous to get them involved in a transaction they're not a party to.
Process might be slightly different, I'm remembering from about fifteen years ago.
lazyasciiart · 1h ago
Every business that wants to send something to the UK is required to register with the British government and collect VAT on items shipped to Britain. So yes, the US could have a system like that - just get a couple DOGE kids to vibe code it tomorrow, huh.
Foreign businesses aren't required to register and collect UK VAT on items they send there, but by doing so they avoid their customers paying the £8 handling fee charged by Royal Mail.
An £8 fee makes a cheap product bought from China unappealing, so those sites do pay the fees. It's less important if the British person is buying something for €100 from a tiny French business.
Ekaros · 1h ago
I remember one UK content creator had some recipe books. I think the way to get them to EU was order from Ebay. SO big enough platform to have implemented whole thing... Not sure if that really works.
This sort of thing happened to some extent with Brexit, too; after the chaos died down some carriers resumed service to the UK, but some didn't.
pembrook · 57m ago
I wish the rest of world would finally push back against US bullying. It's so pathetic that they don't even try.
When the Obama administration forced every bank in the world to start reporting the data and assets of any US-adjacent person (creating nightmare scenarios that continue today for most US expats), the entire world just rolled over and gave in. It was one of the greatest abuses of power, ever, all enabled by the US dollar's reserve currency status.
I can only hope this time is different due to the current administration being more hated around the world.
westpfelia · 2h ago
I think if you send something under 100$ and its person to person you are still good though.
mjmas · 3h ago
So this looks like just transit shipping is changing, since the other country could have a potentially higher tariff applied rather than the Australia-specific one.
rob74 · 2h ago
I don't agree with >99% of what Trump does, but closing this loophole that allowed Chinese companies to flood Western markets with cheap (and partly dangerous) junk is one of the exceptions - and also one of the few things where he is in agreement with the EU (https://marketing4ecommerce.net/en/europe-packages-under-val...).
dsign · 2h ago
There is Chinese junk, German junk, and American junk. But not all of those countries are into junk production exclusively. I've received goods from a China startup with are much higher quality than goods from a Germany company which is over one hundred years old.
The question is what's the West doing to uppe their game, and right now it seems that our side is fundamentally incompatible with the sort of things China is doing, and then we resort to blaming them for whatever we can.
rvnx · 2h ago
The real question is why people buy such products, and the answer is because the quality for that specific price point is decent.
When you buy Anker for example, you are buying, pure China products, but still a very good choice.
Many US companies choose to manufacture in China because the tooling is more advanced than in other countries + scalability is high.
If you buy a 2 USD dress don’t expect it to be super high-quality but at the same time the price is reasonable for that.
Ekaros · 1h ago
And often when I am charged 5x or 10x for something here I have no idea if the manufacturing price was 2x or 3x and thus higher quality with better QC and so on. Or does that money just go to bunch of middle-men and to bottom line of the local seller.
RealStickman_ · 27m ago
My favourite example is cables. I can either buy a Chinese-made product locally, or get a similar quality for a tenth the price on Aliexpress.
blub · 1h ago
Pure China products with Western QC on top and somebody to sue when things go wrong.
Turns out this matters. But it’s still better to buy made in EU/USA.
fakedang · 2h ago
Also the factory that produces the $2000 luxury dress is often the same one producing the $2 Temu version. The former has a specific yarn, strict QC, lifecycle audits, the works. The latter uses the cheapest available yarn, no QC and crappy packaging.
ieeamo · 2h ago
There are specific regulations that exist and are enforced in Germany (2009/48/EC) and the US (CPSC), that also exist in China (e.g. GB 6675) but enforcement is relatively weak, especially for cheap toys from small manufacturers that end up in the hands of children.
potato3732842 · 1h ago
It's not that China is into junk production exclusively as your dishonest straw man claims. It's that china can make an overwhelming amount of it. The weird shipping situation subsidized the flow of junk from China to the US. It subsided everything else too but everything else didn't necessarily benefit as much from the subsidy so the junk is what really changes in volume based on the nickels and dimes of it.
blub · 1h ago
China has very many start-ups and one man shows shipping utter junk. Germany and the US are not even in the same league. The companies in those countries tend to follow the local laws because they know there are consequences.
Good luck getting compensation when that product from AJDHJk sets your house on fire or makes you sick.
In consumer products, the German and US brands do indeed manufacture in China, but then do their QC and supervision to get to an acceptable level.
You can see how this goes wrong with Anker’s recent recall, where they got blindsided by their supplier and now have to do a recall because their portable batteries can cause fires.
dsign · 1h ago
I won't deny your point, but I think we are missing something. China's economy has more cutthroat competition than at least where I live. As such, strict QC is a must for any brand there that wants to survive and have a presence in the West, of which there are quite a few. And those brands still manage to beat domestic ones in price, often with higher quality. My point being, QC and legislation alone can account for the price difference; there has to be other economic factors at play.
> As such, strict QC is a must for any brand there that wants to survive and have a presence in the West, of which there are quite a few.
The thing is, there are three ways to survive as a company. The one way is establishing a brand like Ecoflow, DJI, Anker, and do what you suggest. The second one is to produce directly for some large Western brand (either as contract manufacturer or ODM). The final way is to just flood the Western markets with cheap garbage and alphabet-soup brands, and make up the lower margins in sales volume. There can't be that many companies making and selling PL259 adapters as there are "brands" on Amazon selling them, after all.
rob74 · 55m ago
> The final way is to just flood the Western markets with cheap garbage and alphabet-soup brands, and make up the lower margins in sales volume.
...and because they don't have a presence in the West and don't care about their brand(s), if the shit really were to hit the fan in such a big way that they can't just sit it out, they can simply drop that particular brand, while the remaining heads of the Hydra will be just fine.
mrheosuper · 1h ago
i'm pretty sure if your house is on fire because of anker charger, you can ask them for compensation.
a lot of US manufactures had been recalling their products too.
Symbiote · 1h ago
If you buy a cheap charger from AliExpress, it's not going to be Anker.
Ylpertnodi · 51m ago
>In consumer products, the German and US brands do indeed manufacture in China, but then do their QC and supervision to get to an acceptable level.
....until the QC and supervisor turn their backs.
sschueller · 1h ago
Did you know Switzerland has a free trade agreement with China? We have the same strict/very similar strict rules as the EU does.
In Switzerland if you import dangerous junk and sell it in your store, you are liable. Of course the end consumer can also directly purchase from China as well but then it is their responsibility (Eigenverantwortung).
Customs will also confiscate fake brands and for example radios that violate frequencies rules (unless you can provide documents that you are allowed to operate such a device, ham radio license etc.)
stinkbeetle · 4m ago
Free trade? With no adjustment given to the CO2 emission intensity of production or CO2 emission per capita which are much higher in China than Switzerland?
That's basically subsidizing climate change and encouraging production to move to dirtier regimes. Seems fairly wild.
graemep · 26m ago
"n Switzerland if you import dangerous junk and sell it in your store, you are liable."
The same in the UK, and a lot of other countries. The retailer is responsible to the customer, the importer or wholesaler to the retailer.
> Of course the end consumer can also directly purchase from China as well but then it is their responsibility
Providing an easy workaround to safety regulations does not sound like a great idea to me. If you let consumers easily buy unsafe things it will lead to problems. Consumers often do not even realise that things do not meet standards, especially if they buy it through somewhere like Amazon.
You could argue that consumers should do their own checks, but then why have the regulation of what can be sold in the first place?
sschueller · 17m ago
We have a big thing in Switzerland called "Eigenverantwortung". You need to take responsibility, the state will not babysit you at everything. You have the freedom to purchase abroad but at your responsibility.
comrade1234 · 17m ago
> If you let consumers easily buy unsafe things it will lead to problems.
It's Switzerland.... I can buy fireworks rockets as big as my leg at the grocery store just before Swiss national day.
rob74 · 1h ago
And if my neighbor purchases a cheap battery-powered product that violates all electrical regulations from TEMU and the fire started by it burns down my apartment too, who's responsible then? I guess my neighbor, and the insurance will probably cover the costs, but I will still have lost the apartment and all the stuff that was in it. And customs will maybe look at big shipments, but can't hope to check even a tiny fraction of the millions of small packages.
comrade1234 · 1h ago
The article is mostly about duties. If you buy from someone outside of Switzerland that doesn't take care of the customs fees it's a pain for you. I once bought something that was only around 40chf from someone in the eu but then had to pay an extra ~40chf to Swiss customs for tax + plus handling fees (they had to open the box, inspect it, repackage it and send it to me).
MandieD · 1h ago
In Switzerland if you import dangerous junk and sell it in your store, you are liable.
Oh, that's why amazon.ch redirects to amazon.de... In general, manufacturers and retailers have more legal responsibility for what they sell here in Germany than in the USA, but it feels like Switzerland takes that even further, in good but more expensive ways.
comrade1234 · 1h ago
There is no Amazon in Switzerland. Well, they probably have an office here for tax schemes, but there's no Amazon service. Instead we have Galaxus which is awesome and so I fully expect Amazon to buy it one day and ruin it.
nailer · 29m ago
Likewise EU to US import rules were based on a World War II recovery concept. Europe is no longer recovering from World War II so asking them to pay a reciprocal tariff seems entirely reasonable whether you think Trump is a jackass or not.
rob74 · 7m ago
Er, words mean things, you know? If Trump pulls a tariff out of thin air because he doesn't like it that the US has a trade deficit with a certain country (or because he doesn't like that that country is prosecuting one of his allies, as in Brazil's case), that maybe makes the tariff "retaliatory", but not "reciprocal". Last time I checked, the EU wasn't charging a 15% tax on imports from the US, but the US was.
bamboozled · 50m ago
What on earth happened to free market capitalism, now you don’t want it? You want government intervention in the price of goods to manipulate outcomes ? Make up your mind and make it up quickly because I don't think the world will wait.
People buy cheap junk because it’s cheap. Why do you think so few people buy American made tools ? Your government is now forcing you to buy expensive goods and you’re, “happy with it”? It’s wild. I’m one of those people who always purchased USA, British , Australian, I still but I've had to watch many of my favourite brands lose their soul and offshore only because consumers chose to stop supporting them. It was the choice of consumers. It's just the sad reality, I'm certain the fix isn't government intervention though.
At this end this just pushes India, Vietnam and China into the arms of the rest of the world.
Then US is going to be left alone with their precious pure home-made products like Twinkies, Spam, American cheese or Budweiser.
The great brands are going to go more and more offshore, like Apple or Google already does.
Mexico and Canada also had trade deals, which went from Trump calling it "the largest, most significant, modern, and balanced trade agreement in history":
* https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/pr...
To Trump asking "Who would ever sign a thing like this?":
* https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-accidentally-insults...
China was similarly unmoved by the threats America made.
Europe was moved and they got an absolutely horrible trade deal.
The US has a lot of power, that only China comes close to matching. The dominance of the US in certain fields (like IT hardware, software and services, payment services) makes most countries dependent on the US.
> The great brands are going to go more and more offshore, like Apple or Google already does.
Offshore what? Manufacturing? US tariffs do not affect offshoring to sell to other countries, but the US is a huge market for all those brands.
People underestimate how far things can move
In the case of India and China, I think it's more of a case of India becoming more independent, which is "good" on the one hand ,but probably terrible for American hegemony and they will just side more with Russia and continue to buy resources from them.
I'm not sure if Americans can really grasp how their soft power around the world is vaporizing by the day. Even at it's peak, probably Obama era, I wouldn't say America was default popular, now, I don't know what to say but it's really looking as if people are just deciding to move on from the American experiment as we realize it might not be coming back. Look at places like Switzerland cancelling orders of F35s, just a coincidence ?
I guess smaller countries aren't being left with much choice, that's the fundamental issue.
Edit: I'm not worried about the down votes, but I also think it's sad and maybe even a sign that people have sore feelings about reality?
Meanwhile China actually INVADED Vietnam in 1979, four years after the US-Vietnam War ended!
Both of these countries view China as an immediate potential military threat because it is one, they have fought actual wars with it.
It's so wild how there are all these Western liberals who think Trump is somehow worse than this, I don't even like the guy but these people obviously don't know shit about the history of the region. The history is China warring with these countries!
I mean, do you truly think the USA will come to Vietnam's side if it's invaded by China? Honestly? look at all the whining about helping Ukraine and you think the current administration will enter a hot war with China over Vietnam? 90% of Americans wouldn't even know where that is.
Regarding India and Russia, they're already allies, they already do significant trade, I'm not sure what you're reading but I don't think India is by default America first. They nuclear armed, so they have that "f u" card to play as well.
I'm not based in the west either sorry. I wouldn't say I'm a "western liberal", I see you've already made up your mind though.
About half of us are shocked and revolted by pretty much everything he says and does.
In fact, you could legitimately blame people like me for not going further to stop the madness.
In my particular case, that could cost me my job, which means losing health insurance for my family and myself. That's a choice I'm making, for sure. To that extent I'm culpable for this situation.
So, while it’s true that US citizens are not directly responsible for Trump, there is still a dereliction of ethical duty happening, in my opinion, assuming we agree that Trump is harming other people unnecessarily (which, naturally, many Trump supporters would disagree with.)
Of course, even if I’m right, what does that mean in practice? That random Americans on vacation in Italy can be snatched up and sent to The Hague? No, obviously not. I think the most practical effect is that this should give all Americans pause to think, and to at minimum ensure that they are not contributing to the problem in any way, and better yet, fighting the problem in some way.
Of course, this doesn’t even begin to address the fact that only 1/3 or so of Americans voted for Harris, which was the only choice that actually could have worked to stop Trump. 1/3 voted for him directly, and of course they are responsible, but another 1/3 couldn’t be bothered to vote, so it is actually a supermajority of the American people that are shitty, either because they couldn’t care less about other people, or they actively contributed to the problem.
Like sure, I get that the above is propaganda spread by the machine, but good luck telling that to the Europeans that have dealt with Americans that believe it; furthermore, I think it's telling that a decade ago, Canadians would wear emblems to distinguish themselves from Americans, lest they be confused for the egocentric and rude Americans.
The first paragraph is propaganda, but Americans haven't exactly denied it, nor have they been humble about their place in the world, or the flaws in their nation. Their actions have instead left many of us of the opinion that Americans actually believe it.
And last time i check, Trump won most of the swing state, so a large part of US believe in Trump.
Nobody is saying he doesn’t officially represent the USA. It’s about not assuming ALL Americans agree with what the administration is doing. A reasonable ask, no?
It’s FAFO writ large, and the US has been ‘exceptional’ for so long they think they can avoid the FO part.
And never seen news discussions, sanctions, seen immigration policies, etc?
It may not been as bad and direct as discrimination against the Japanese in WW2, but a ton of people absolutely do discriminate that way.
And let’s not talk about Muslims (or anyone with a turban, like Sikhs) post 9/11.
Not gp, but: sorry, Americans, for whatever voter turnouts, gerrymandering, secret deals, etc, etc.
He's your president. Twice.
Whatever you say at least Trump has truly passionate base. Or will next Democrat nominee be Harris?
Only 65% voted, so it’s probably safe to say that only 35-40% of the population support him.
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2025/2024-pre...
So 35% voted the option "I'm fine with whatever comes" so a blanket approval can be assumed to whoever won, i.e. in this case an implicit support for Trump.
I'd put that at less than 1/3, actually.
The problem is that there is a good third of the US that seems to be completely oblivious that bad shit is going down until it shows up and kicks them in the balls personally.
This is, sadly, neither new nor limited to the US.
"It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become a prey to the active. The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt." John Philpot Curran--1790
Followed by 32% of the voting population which strongly approves of the result.
The ”not all of us” is a very tempting copout but it is quite evident that the American psyche is in general aligned with Trump.
They have no problem with China destroying their fisheries, and joining with India to buy tons of Russian oil and finance the destruction of Ukraine, while simultaneously emitting vastly more CO2 than the US does.
They just want free defense, one sided "free trade" and the minute they stop getting it, they hate everyone in this country.
I don't agree with this attitude, but the commenter absolutely embodies it. This whole thread embodies it. It's the kind of thing I would send to a bunch of swing voters to persuade them to continue to support these policies.
"vastly" is well out of place here.
Currently, on a per annum* basis, China is the number one emitter, the United States is number two. China currently puts out ~ 2.5 the total of the US.
* less than 3x is hardly "vastly more"
* on a per capita basis China emits less per person than the US.
* Much of China's emissions are due the US offshoring manufacture, a large chunk the CO2 rising from China is a result of US consumer demand.
Moreover, the current yearly outputs are merely the bleeding edge of the CO2 problem - it's the cumulative total that is responsible for the increased insulation that is trapping an increasing amount of heat energy.
On that front the US is responsible for more of the total raised by human activity than China.
By country, per year: https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-by...
By country, cumulative total: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-co-emissions
Listen to yourself. That is absolutely ridiculous. This is not a serious conversation. I won't be replying to anymore of your comments.
Per capita means nothing to the planet. The temperature climbs regardless, and China has a choice and it's chosen power plants even if India doesn't. They are building coal plants every single day and you don't say anything because you are a product of a left-wing movement that views state capitalism as an offshoot of communism and therefore positive. That's why your movement never has anything critical to say about China. You only care about Muslims if they are being murdered by capitalists. But the uyghurs can just go pound sand. They are literally having forced birth control and have lower birth rates than any Muslim population on the planet and you sit there and ignore it.
The problem isn’t new tariffs, but how the USA wants to collect them. It’s mentioned in the article:
“IMAG's Ms Muth said the overarching concern is that many postal carriers are not set up to ‘collect and remit’ the duties specified by Donald Trump's executive order.”
Normally tariffs are collected by the receiving country when a package arrives. Trump wants foreign countries’ postal carriers to collect US tariffs and somehow remit the money to the American authorities… But there are no systems set up for this. The Americans haven’t even provided a way to send those remittances.
Obviously this is not something that postal carriers around the world can just spin up in two weeks, just because the Americans suddenly decided they want foreign post offices to collect their import taxes. So the only option is not to ship to America at all.
But using this system, I can order something from Ali Express for €10 + €2.50 VAT, pay Ali Express €12.50, and they send the VAT to Denmark. The tracking number on the package proves the VAT was paid, and the package sails through customs.
(There's also a UK system, very similar, but I have forgotten the name of it.)
[1] https://vat-one-stop-shop.ec.europa.eu/index_en
For good reason too, the sender engaged the carrier. The receiver has no business relationship with the carrier, so they don't have an opportunity to pay any tariff to the carrier.
This is especially relevant when the carrier engages a local contractor for the last leg of a delivery, because they don't even have a presence there.
I get an SMS saying that my parcel has arrived in the country but I have to pay customs before it's released for delivery, done via the site above.
So there does seem to be some mechanism for closing the buyer-seller-taxman loop. Unfortunately I have yet to find a reliable way to send things using this system.
We've got the same thing with GST, basically like VAT or sales tax. So that'll appear on the invoice from AliExpress or Steam or wherever.
Businesses have a threshold before they need to charge it though. If they're under that threshold (like a small business), but the value of goods is over another threshold, then the receiver has to pay GST.
If I remember correctly, customs would mail me a letter, and I'd pay it like a tariff. Which brings me back to the main point, that's just that the carrier has nothing to do with it. It's ridiculous to get them involved in a transaction they're not a party to.
Process might be slightly different, I'm remembering from about fifteen years ago.
https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/united-kingdom/corporate/other-...
An £8 fee makes a cheap product bought from China unappealing, so those sites do pay the fees. It's less important if the British person is buying something for €100 from a tiny French business.
Searching "EU IOSS UK" also shows some sort of support from Shopify and similar.
When the Obama administration forced every bank in the world to start reporting the data and assets of any US-adjacent person (creating nightmare scenarios that continue today for most US expats), the entire world just rolled over and gave in. It was one of the greatest abuses of power, ever, all enabled by the US dollar's reserve currency status.
I can only hope this time is different due to the current administration being more hated around the world.
The question is what's the West doing to uppe their game, and right now it seems that our side is fundamentally incompatible with the sort of things China is doing, and then we resort to blaming them for whatever we can.
When you buy Anker for example, you are buying, pure China products, but still a very good choice.
Many US companies choose to manufacture in China because the tooling is more advanced than in other countries + scalability is high.
If you buy a 2 USD dress don’t expect it to be super high-quality but at the same time the price is reasonable for that.
Turns out this matters. But it’s still better to buy made in EU/USA.
Good luck getting compensation when that product from AJDHJk sets your house on fire or makes you sick.
In consumer products, the German and US brands do indeed manufacture in China, but then do their QC and supervision to get to an acceptable level.
You can see how this goes wrong with Anker’s recent recall, where they got blindsided by their supplier and now have to do a recall because their portable batteries can cause fires.
Also, I recently watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2TfbN3v8h8 , which may be smoke and mirrors and have me slightly biased. Also, my iphone is made in China.
The thing is, there are three ways to survive as a company. The one way is establishing a brand like Ecoflow, DJI, Anker, and do what you suggest. The second one is to produce directly for some large Western brand (either as contract manufacturer or ODM). The final way is to just flood the Western markets with cheap garbage and alphabet-soup brands, and make up the lower margins in sales volume. There can't be that many companies making and selling PL259 adapters as there are "brands" on Amazon selling them, after all.
...and because they don't have a presence in the West and don't care about their brand(s), if the shit really were to hit the fan in such a big way that they can't just sit it out, they can simply drop that particular brand, while the remaining heads of the Hydra will be just fine.
a lot of US manufactures had been recalling their products too.
....until the QC and supervisor turn their backs.
In Switzerland if you import dangerous junk and sell it in your store, you are liable. Of course the end consumer can also directly purchase from China as well but then it is their responsibility (Eigenverantwortung).
Customs will also confiscate fake brands and for example radios that violate frequencies rules (unless you can provide documents that you are allowed to operate such a device, ham radio license etc.)
That's basically subsidizing climate change and encouraging production to move to dirtier regimes. Seems fairly wild.
The same in the UK, and a lot of other countries. The retailer is responsible to the customer, the importer or wholesaler to the retailer.
> Of course the end consumer can also directly purchase from China as well but then it is their responsibility
Providing an easy workaround to safety regulations does not sound like a great idea to me. If you let consumers easily buy unsafe things it will lead to problems. Consumers often do not even realise that things do not meet standards, especially if they buy it through somewhere like Amazon.
You could argue that consumers should do their own checks, but then why have the regulation of what can be sold in the first place?
It's Switzerland.... I can buy fireworks rockets as big as my leg at the grocery store just before Swiss national day.
Oh, that's why amazon.ch redirects to amazon.de... In general, manufacturers and retailers have more legal responsibility for what they sell here in Germany than in the USA, but it feels like Switzerland takes that even further, in good but more expensive ways.
People buy cheap junk because it’s cheap. Why do you think so few people buy American made tools ? Your government is now forcing you to buy expensive goods and you’re, “happy with it”? It’s wild. I’m one of those people who always purchased USA, British , Australian, I still but I've had to watch many of my favourite brands lose their soul and offshore only because consumers chose to stop supporting them. It was the choice of consumers. It's just the sad reality, I'm certain the fix isn't government intervention though.