A case study in bad hiring practice and how to fix it

47 prestelpirate 36 8/13/2025, 4:42:13 PM tomkranz.com ↗

Comments (36)

darth_avocado · 16m ago
> Glassdoor is a good barometer for company health

Glassdoor hasn’t been a good barometer for anything. When your reviews get removed because the company paid them, you’re just being shown what the company wants you to see. Their salary data is highly inaccurate and deflates the industry wages. That site needs to be banished into non existence.

bityard · 4m ago
Canonical has been famous for _decades_ in tech circles for having one of the most bizarre hiring processes in the world. They're honestly an easy punching bag and I don't think there are many left who have looked for a job in the OS/admin/Linux space who haven't run across them and stumbled across all of the horror stories of getting hired and working there.
latexr · 1h ago
> But high school? Who got paid to write that? And why aren't they now unemployed?

Why would they be unemployed? Mark Shuttleworth, founder and CEO of Canonical, is reportedly obsessed with high school performance, to the point of rejecting otherwise highly competent candidates who passed the whole process before that based on high school questions alone.

siva7 · 43m ago
Oh. I remember once applying for Canonical, and i found those high-school grade obsessed questions truly odd back then. After applying they ghosted me. In hindsight, the interview process seems to be matching the personality of their founder CEO, so very glad i'm not working there.
jvanderbot · 31m ago
I had the same experience. I even made the mistake of being honest: In HS I didn't care about computers and had poor academic performance. It wasn't until 6 years later I even knew what computer science was, and didn't look up until 11 years and a PhD later when I was writing software for NASA or managing robotics teams at FAANG/ startups. I got an immediate reject for a robotics SWE position. I'm trying to temper ego even now, but I was qualified for an interview.
stripe_away · 7m ago
sounds like you dodged a bullet.

You qualified for the interview, but did they qualify for you?

ohreallx · 5m ago
It's pretty typical for a CEO of a major tech company to have some kind of quirk in their behavior that is nonsensical but insufficient to ruin the company given its luck, etc.
ravedave5 · 1h ago
I had a buddy go through the Canonical process, it's totally insane. They expect you to jump when they say, but then they may not respond for days or weeks.
PhantomHour · 40m ago
"CEO is obsessed with [thing]" isn't much evidence that the thing in question is worthwhile. Zuckerberg was utterly enthralled with the Metaverse, and we're not having this discussion in a virtual world as legless avatars.

There's two big reasons this is such a red flag: 1) Come on. Unless you are hiring highschool graduates directly, you have other means of finding out how good candidates are. If a highschool report card tells you more about a candidate than your own interview process, you need to fire everyone involved with that process.

2) Highschool performance is highly correlated with a bunch of causes that are very undesirable things to proxy-measure in your hiring process.

In the UK, where Canonical and Mark hail from, high school performance is a statistical proxy for class (wealth). In the US, it is a statistical proxy for ethnicity as well. You need to be careful with such measures, as selecting job candidates based on class or race is both unethical and commonly illegal.

Again consider that these are high school results. A person who is born to unlucky schooling opportunities can still compensate for the learning they were deprived of by working harder in college/university or their formal career after that.

whimsicalism · 25m ago
i think it’s pretty clear GP is not saying it is worthwhile and is actually implicitly criticizing the practice.

> high school performance is a statistical proxy for class (wealth). In the US, it is a statistical proxy for ethnicity as well.

the degree to which this claim about wealth is true is impacted by confounders. it is generally less true than commonly stated. outside of the public sector, that a measure is correlated with race/ethnicity/class does not make it a priori illegal to hire based on.

herodoturtle · 23m ago
> In the UK, where Canonical and Mark hail from

Minor nitpick, but Mark hails from (and was schooled in) South Africa.

Agree with your overall point.

VirusNewbie · 35m ago
> is reportedly obsessed with high school performance, to the point of rejecting otherwise highly competent candidates who passed the whole process before that based on high school questions alone.

Right but given the pay, talent level, and more from Canonical, they should probably not be trying to invent new ways to filter candidates beyond what even top tier software shops are doing.

If Jane Street and Anthropic aren't rejecting candidates for high school performance, maybe your mid tier company with low tier pay shouldn't be either.

whimsicalism · 27m ago
Jane St is not a good example of a company that doesn’t care about HS performance. Lots of finance firms ask for SAT scores years out and Jane St weights heavily on college (which in turn is exclusively a function of HS performance).
rvz · 17m ago
> Mark Shuttleworth, founder and CEO of Canonical

who....cares?

I think we need to ask ourselves why we put up with this nonsense. Not even the serious tech companies and adjacent care about that aspect of your performance.

He would certainly have passed on Linus Torvalds if he applied to work at Canonical - because he did not got to some well known top high school or get the top marks Shuttleworth wanted.

neilv · 38m ago
OTOH, the hiring process described by the article is not as bad as that of Google and everyone who copied them. We've just been conditioned to the latter.
jvanderbot · 29m ago
I had a great experience with Google. But once I got an offer, they were unable to even tell me what team/project I'd start on and refused to elaborate. Totally silly.
dudeWithAMood · 42m ago
There have been previous articles posted with people's direct experience with the hiring process at Canonical. I don't think this is a good candidate for a case study.
theideaofcoffee · 33m ago
Though perhaps shining a light on shittiness like that might cause someone doing hiring in the future to think for a fraction of a second and reflect. Maybe it’d be better to do it in a less than an insane way and make their slice of the world just a smidge better.

And just to add to the Canonical shame too, I’m all for that.

weitendorf · 49m ago
FTA: Also, there is no target salary or salary range. This is a red flag for a couple of reasons:

- It sends a message that the actual compensation is going to be rubbish.

- It sends a message (combined with the evidence from the advert spamming) that the hiring company will be paying different levels of compensation based on where the applicant lives.

That last one is particularly inexcusable. We call it a 'compensation package' for a reason: the employer is compensating the employee for using their expertise, time, and energy to make the employer money. It has nothing to do with the CoL where you live, and everything to do with how much the company values you in that role.

——-

While I mostly agree with the sentiment I think this is pretty normal and not nearly as much of a faux pas as the author is making it out to be. Kinda applies to a lot of his points - some of these aren’t unequivocally bad hiring practices, they are just polarizing or a matter of pros and cons.

Hot take: a lot of job openings for highly specialized skills or from small-medium sized businesses are not posted with specific salary bands in mind, just “as much as it takes to get a great candidate, but not more than their expected value”. In some cases you could legitimately be open to candidates costing anywhere between $80k and $500k - it looks weird to list a job that way, would you do it? Maybe it turns some candidates off, maybe it prevents scaring off candidates who would be great fits and accept the offer. Maybe it’s not worth getting upset about

ch33zer · 41m ago
I mean it's the law in California that job postings must include salary ranges since 2023, so it's more than 'boy sure would be nice if I knew the pay range before applying': https://www.cda.org/newsroom/employment-practices/pay-scale-...
weitendorf · 38m ago
And the article is about Canonical making multiple job postings all around the world where California labor laws aren’t applicable…

Regardless, I think there are underrated issues with mandatory pay bands that aren’t obvious unless you’re on the hiring side. Let’s say you legitimately are open to hiring candidates from anywhere from $100k to $300k. For candidates closer to the $300k end they might not want to apply if they think they might get offered way less than they want, and it might attract a lot of candidates on the $100k end who will make it all the way through the process and then get upset when they’re not offered something closer to $300k. Also, for companies like Canonical, they have enough name recognition and genuine supporters that they probably don’t want to talk to candidates who are only applying because they saw a big number (and if they have to, it makes harder for candidates that are better fits to get noticed).

There’s understandably a lot of strong feelings about hiring practices right now and I know a lot of candidates will tend to assume the worst because of how they’ve been treated by other companies. But sometimes companies just make multiple listings so they show up for candidates around the world instead of as a spam tactic, are flexible on salary, and have a culture that values different things.

0xffff2 · 18m ago
In California at least, nothing stops you from asking about expected pay as part of the application process and setting expectations for individual candidates early. From the applicant side, I'm constantly amazed at how many companies are shamelessly advertising senior level jobs with embarrassingly low salary ranges. Being able to weed out companies whose _upper_ bound is less than I'm making now as a government contractor (i.e. very much not FANNG pay) saves a ton of time.
andy99 · 59m ago
See also "Canonical’s recruitment process is long and complex"

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37059857

FWIW, I disagree with this logic

  It has nothing to do with the CoL where you live, and everything to do with how much the company values you in that role.
It's not about cost of living, it's about supply and demand. If you want people in e.g Bay Area to consider you at all, you'll have to offer them more than you'd need to get the attention of people in Warsaw. That's why remote salaries can still vary by location.
nlawalker · 36m ago
> If you want people in e.g Bay Area to consider you at all, you'll have to offer them more than you'd need to get the attention of people in Warsaw. That's why remote salaries can still vary by location.

Then why not take what you'd offer to people in the Bay Area and also offer that to people in Warsaw? That's what the author is taking issue with.

Majestic121 · 25m ago
Because you don't have to: even a significantly lower salary than what would be good in the Bay Area would attract and retain people from Warsaw
x0x0 · 21m ago
Because employees are very expensive, and I don't live in magic pixie land where money is free. Every penny spent on an employee is a foregone opportunity to hire more employees, or require less sales to break even, or deliver dividends to the owners of the company, ie rent for the capital borrowed from them.

You can see this in how engineers don't volunteer to take pay cuts so janitors and fast food employees get paid the same...

snapetom · 25m ago
This is not limited to Canonical. This is happening across the board because it's a buyer's market for labor. The game is stacked against job applicants. A posting on LinkedIn will attract hundreds of applicants, and as recruiter friends tell me, they'll get dozens of qualified people that can do the job. Blame the internet, blame globalization, blame remote work.

At best companies act in good faith but are dysfunctional/incompetent to make this an efficient process. At worst, employers are exploiting the current labor situation to their advantage.

Will this ever change back? I don't think so unless you can eliminate the internet and AI systems.

at-fates-hands · 5m ago
>> This is happening across the board because it's a buyer's market for labor.

In my region in the Midwest, we have several well known companies that have been doing this for a very long time. They basically promote the same insane hiring process and then compare their companies hiring process to getting admitted to Harvard - they actually say they're hiring standards are more stringent than Harvard's.

The other funny thing is these same companies who hold themselves out as "elite" pay 30-40% less than market rate. So in essence, you go through some insane hiring process, jumping through all the hoops, and you're still going to end up in a job that pays 30% less than every other company doing two or three interviews before hiring someone.

Will this ever change back? Probably when market dynamics change back in the favor of developers, which could be a very long time. I wholeheartedly believe the "gold rush" of the tech industry has ended. Gone are the days where you had 4-5 different companies vying for your talent year after year after year. The whole industry feels like its contracting.

tropicalfruit · 15m ago
basically there's a "hiring manager" with a cushy remote email job

he just stretches everything out to the max to keep himself "busy"

all these stages and high school nonsense its designed to waste your time and to fill their day with easy nothingness

if you were a good, fast hiring manager, people might start wondering if they even need you

i would do the same tbh

whimsicalism · 51m ago
> Also, there is no target salary or salary range. This is a red flag for a couple of reasons: > - It sends a message that the actual compensation is going to be rubbish. > - It sends a message (combined with the evidence from the advert spamming) that the hiring company will be paying different levels of compensation based on where the applicant lives. > That last one is particularly inexcusable. We call it a 'compensation package' for a reason: the employer is compensating the employee for using their expertise, time, and energy to make the employer money. It has nothing to do with the CoL where you live, and everything to do with how much the company values you in that role.

Welcome to the world - labor is also subject to supply and demand.

jvanderbot · 26m ago
COL adjustments are not labor supply/demand. You don't pay a high COL because you want a candidate from SF Bay Area (unless you have your office there). Companies pay a lower salary in lower COL areas (relative to their target salary), because they have an excuse to and can save money. That's just how it is, I've been on that side of the table. Senior leaders saying "We're not going to pay them the same salary if they're living in nowhere kansas!!"

Thought experiment: Get a job, then move to a higher COL area, do you expect a raise? No. Move to a lower COL area: Somehow we expect lower salary?

flatline · 9m ago
I’d make an even broader generalization, which is that all of these attributes are proxies for status. Graduated from a top school? Live in the Bay Area or NYC? Did well in High School (I guess?) These are all status indicators in the mind of someone higher up, and deserving of better pay. If you live in a low cost of living area it’s correspondingly lower status and deserving of lower pay. Other common status indicators include things like age, gender, and race…
whimsicalism · 7m ago
Is it possible that people who are good at acquiring status markers are also good at other things? No, it’s the world that’s wrong - there is no reason a Harvard grad in NYC should have a higher chance of being paid six figures than a University of Missouri-Kansas City grad in Missouri.
whimsicalism · 23m ago
“COL adjustments” might be publicly described as COL adjustment but they actually have to do with supply:demand of skilled labor in those various regions. Kansas has low demand for skilled tech labor so companies can win with a bid that would be considered a lowball in VHCOL, that is all that matters.
badgersnake · 7m ago
My engineering team is split between Malmö and London. We’ve had people transfer from Malmö to London and they have received a COL raise. The reverse is also true.
rvz · 28m ago
> we're still seeing companies complain that there is a skills shortage and a lack of talent.

The truth is these companies want Stanford, Oxbridge, MIT engineers for minimum wage or close to free. But of course, no-one that will work to be exploited for their below low-ball offers.

Thus, they scream for the bullshit "skills shortage" delusion. The ones that continue to do this are almost certainly joke companies that can't afford market rate.