Some day, whenever I have the money to skunkworks this properly, I've wanted to create something like a modern spiritual successor to the Atari ST with enhanced creature comforts.
Something with a CPU based on POWER architecture (like microwatt) with a simplified multicore design (no hyperthreading or weird BIG+little core design - just straightforward homogeneous cores), a simple expansion interface of some kind, and an OS baked into ROM. Then I'd consider it to be built around a long term support model, with one design that can last decades, complete with schematics, chip design reference guide, and an open specification so it can be easily cloned as desired.
Especially now that Moore's Law and Dennard Scaling has slowed down considerably, it could be a fun platform to target for education or the demoscene, instead of spec chasing.
mmackh · 2h ago
There’s something to be said about an independent system you can understand and expand. What I think will be next frontier in home computing is truly understanding and owning the systems that run a smart home and that comes with understanding the environment (sensor data, presence detection, etc.). We live in an interesting time where embedded development has become so accessible and powerful that we can interface with multiple wireless protocols and state of the art sensors with not a lot of capital investment. If we think what can come beyond screens and imagine more ambient computing systems - maybe we’ll see new and interesting innovations
bevr1337 · 22m ago
> Fully understandable by a single person
Riddle me this, Batman.
What's the scope of "fully understandable?" How much of this home PC could be reasonably audited by individuals or small teams?
I've got no exceptional opsec needs as an individual, but I spend some time wondering the minimum required resources to audit a PC. Looking through the docs I see cases where there are multiple suppliers for a recommended part -- that's very cool!
As a "fake programmer" and web jockey, this looks like the right balance of complexity to learn with.
ilaksh · 16m ago
I don't think it's really a fair claim in an educational context. There are at least two completely modern computers (which I assume means fairly complex) including the Raspberry PI and another one he is using the the bus or something.
I just don't think modern CPUs really quite fit the claim of "fully understandable by a single person". I mean maybe technically but that is misleading in an educational context where there are much simpler computers that are definitely fully understandable.
Maybe all of the stuff he wraps around the main CPU is understandable though. And the expansion cards are cool.
bevr1337 · 5m ago
> but that is misleading in an educational context where there are much simpler computers that are definitely fully understandable.
Are there any other projects or resources in this space that you'd recommend?
A friend and I cut our teeth on those AlphaSmart word processors that ran BASIC. I might could wrap my head around that.
jameszog · 28m ago
We have a stack of obsolete machines from e waste that we use for kids to build their own. Free and reusing dumped gear.
JKCalhoun · 2h ago
I like that it is using a backplane architecture.
The OS made me wonder how far someone could get trying to create a GUI for the 6502. I suppose the Apple II (GS?) headed there before the Mac fully took the reins and the Apple II was left out to pasture.
> an expandable and hackable computer in the spirit of the 80's home computers
cool!
> Dual Core CPU
hm that will make for some interesting first steps in learning
ZiiS · 2h ago
Tbh having a seperate io core can simplify scheduling.
sounds · 1h ago
Agree. Most computers that are a joy to learn have a handful of controllers that operate in parallel. That is, multiple cores
The Apple II had a really cool disk drive because of how it did what it did with so little hardware. By relying on the single CPU for everything it was elegant, advanced, interesting... but perhaps not so easy to program.
The Parallax P8X32A Propeller (2006) did multi-core processing in a very beginner friendly way.
It can be done - if you take a holistic approach to hardware + runtime + development environment.
The Propeller probably failed because of the custom language, the custom assembly syntax, the custom ISA, the custom IDE font (!) etc. It was a very neat system though.
tuckerman · 2h ago
He's still too young for something like this but I've been searching for something to use when we more properly introduce my son to computers. Using modern components to make something useful that still exposes the electronics side, encourages tinkering and exploration over media consumption, etc and it seems like a project like this could fit the bill nicely!
ikskuh · 2h ago
Creator here!
That sounds exactly what i had in mind, and i really wanna do the same when my boy is old enough for computers.
It's a teaching tool and a fun toy to tinker with
JKCalhoun · 2h ago
No doubt you've already looked into Ben Eater's various offerings (?).
tuckerman · 2h ago
I came across them (and they seem very cool!) but my working theory is that, in addition to more electronics heavy projects like those, I also want something that can fill the role of the apple ii plus that was the "family computer" when I was a kid without going straight to giving him access to a modern desktop/computer which feel so hermetic.
I'm somehow very confident in this while also being sure that people probably thought very similar things about home radios destroying the youth in the 1920s :D
i've been thinking about how to build a retro-style computer without any of the engineering compromises that made old machines so weird. lots of ideas, no progress. perhaps some sort of small riscv machine and a separate processor to manage the system (esp32) remotely, so you can always modify the filesystem or whatever from a bigger machine?
nancyminusone · 2h ago
Not ragging on the author, but I'm always confused whenever I see a "make your own computer" project like this that doesn't start with hardware first. I mean, there's already seems to be a quite advanced OS for it and some detailed docs, but no physical "computer" to speak of, just a lot of mockups.
Why a hardware project at that point and not a virtual machine like pico-8?
I'm just saying, its kinda the opposite approach a hardware person would take.
ikskuh · 1h ago
Creator here.
Please take a look at the gallery, where there are photos of the actual electronics setups!
Also don't the mechanical mockups count as hardware? A pile of jumperwires, breadboards and devices don't make a good hero image, but physical hardware mockups do.
Also the electronics design in its current form is actually iteration 5 of the system, while the OS development started with iteration 2.
The OS does boot on the electrical prototype
nancyminusone · 1h ago
>A pile of jumperwires, breadboards and devices don't make a good hero image
I strongly disagree! Hardware people love seeing that sort of thing - the more guts you show, the better. It means you've gotten something to work and probably know what you're talking about. Take pride in what you have accomplished so far! Ideas and concepts are a dime a dozen; working hardware is a worthy milestone.
ikskuh · 1h ago
Note taken!
Will add a new "cleaned up" photo that isn't also entangled with kids stuff, and other desk content :D
Sadly, it really looks atrocious and it's currently a 3D build which is hard to photograph.
wizzwizz4 · 1h ago
https://ashet.computer/hardware/ looks like hardware to me. While not all the manufacturing considerations have been addressed, there's a "functional cable clutter prototype", and you can build your own Ashet-compatible.
Some day, whenever I have the money to skunkworks this properly, I've wanted to create something like a modern spiritual successor to the Atari ST with enhanced creature comforts.
Something with a CPU based on POWER architecture (like microwatt) with a simplified multicore design (no hyperthreading or weird BIG+little core design - just straightforward homogeneous cores), a simple expansion interface of some kind, and an OS baked into ROM. Then I'd consider it to be built around a long term support model, with one design that can last decades, complete with schematics, chip design reference guide, and an open specification so it can be easily cloned as desired.
Especially now that Moore's Law and Dennard Scaling has slowed down considerably, it could be a fun platform to target for education or the demoscene, instead of spec chasing.
Riddle me this, Batman.
What's the scope of "fully understandable?" How much of this home PC could be reasonably audited by individuals or small teams?
I've got no exceptional opsec needs as an individual, but I spend some time wondering the minimum required resources to audit a PC. Looking through the docs I see cases where there are multiple suppliers for a recommended part -- that's very cool!
As a "fake programmer" and web jockey, this looks like the right balance of complexity to learn with.
I just don't think modern CPUs really quite fit the claim of "fully understandable by a single person". I mean maybe technically but that is misleading in an educational context where there are much simpler computers that are definitely fully understandable.
Maybe all of the stuff he wraps around the main CPU is understandable though. And the expansion cards are cool.
Are there any other projects or resources in this space that you'd recommend?
A friend and I cut our teeth on those AlphaSmart word processors that ran BASIC. I might could wrap my head around that.
The OS made me wonder how far someone could get trying to create a GUI for the 6502. I suppose the Apple II (GS?) headed there before the Mac fully took the reins and the Apple II was left out to pasture.
https://youtu.be/_4nthOx8sA4?si=AiK9bRxRQwV3MB0f
There's also this Atari homebrew
https://youtu.be/T14dL9MeMHE?si=cGtsZGWILYi4jcql
And yes the IIGS had one
https://youtu.be/YvVFTpukAp0?si=UtvV3N_pKhxU-Tyb
http://toastytech.com/guis/a2geos.html
cool!
> Dual Core CPU
hm that will make for some interesting first steps in learning
The Apple II had a really cool disk drive because of how it did what it did with so little hardware. By relying on the single CPU for everything it was elegant, advanced, interesting... but perhaps not so easy to program.
https://www.bigmessowires.com/2021/11/12/the-amazing-disk-ii...
It can be done - if you take a holistic approach to hardware + runtime + development environment.
The Propeller probably failed because of the custom language, the custom assembly syntax, the custom ISA, the custom IDE font (!) etc. It was a very neat system though.
That sounds exactly what i had in mind, and i really wanna do the same when my boy is old enough for computers.
It's a teaching tool and a fun toy to tinker with
I'm somehow very confident in this while also being sure that people probably thought very similar things about home radios destroying the youth in the 1920s :D
Why a hardware project at that point and not a virtual machine like pico-8?
I'm just saying, its kinda the opposite approach a hardware person would take.
Please take a look at the gallery, where there are photos of the actual electronics setups!
Also don't the mechanical mockups count as hardware? A pile of jumperwires, breadboards and devices don't make a good hero image, but physical hardware mockups do.
Also the electronics design in its current form is actually iteration 5 of the system, while the OS development started with iteration 2.
The OS does boot on the electrical prototype
I strongly disagree! Hardware people love seeing that sort of thing - the more guts you show, the better. It means you've gotten something to work and probably know what you're talking about. Take pride in what you have accomplished so far! Ideas and concepts are a dime a dozen; working hardware is a worthy milestone.
Will add a new "cleaned up" photo that isn't also entangled with kids stuff, and other desk content :D
Sadly, it really looks atrocious and it's currently a 3D build which is hard to photograph.