As a high school teacher with a multi ethnic classroom, I don't believe that scheduling is significantly a multi-cultural issue, but rather it's a specific school and community issue. For instance the time at which school starts is less downstream of puritan or protestant heritage, and more a matter of when the sun rises, and how far the busses have to travel. It emerges from lots of discussion with parents and staff.
One thing that came out of those discussion is a four-day school week. That is popular with rural parents across cultures.
The fact that some of our students come from a White or Hispanic or Native American heritage doesn't enter into the conversation, other than through their individual expressed preferences. Some cultures tend to speak more quietly and it's up to us to listen carefully. But we care about what those parents care about, not what our assumptions about their culture would lead us to guess they care about.
piinbinary · 1h ago
It's always seemed strange to me how the world agrees that it is fine to deprive someone of sleep if they happen to have a late sleep schedule (by e.g. starting school or work early).
earnestinger · 21m ago
To solve the issue we must answer several questions: What’s the alternative? How much it would cost for whole class and members of classmate families?
eastbound · 1h ago
Better than deprive the others from having a solid upbringing if they happen to have an early sleep schedule, but don’t know it yet because no-one made it mandatory for the to wake up early.
And honestly, I’ve been both, and it mostly comes down to rearranging the day around an early schedule, and to a lesser degree, being motivated. I used to wake up at 4.30 when I was motivated at work. And I’d always have classified myself as a late sleeper.
oytis · 1h ago
If they happen to have an early sleep schedule they would wake up early even if it's not mandatory, won't they? It's like the meaning of being a morning person that it just comes naturally
eikenberry · 43m ago
Most people have a fairly flexible chronotype, but not everyone. There are extremes at both ends. Don't assume that just because you can change your sleeping behavior that everyone has that privilege.
oytis · 1h ago
The abstract reads like one of these fake articles people would trick journals on humanities to publish for fun
lurk2 · 1h ago
The argument he’s making is coherent.
1) There are social, economic, and institutional norms surrounding sleep.
2) These norms are defined (or at least abided) by a majority group.
3) A minority of individuals can’t abide by these norms either due to physiological differences or necessity.
4) Some people benefit from the work that this minority does, and the minority is not adequately compensated in comparison to the benefits they generate.
Levitz · 1h ago
Only because it uses words like "injustice" or "minorities".
It was my first impression as well, but if I get over my gag reflex and actually read the lines carefully, it seems the "injustice" basically means that people with different schedules are treated unfairly by society and the "minorities" are precisely those with different schedules.
oytis · 56m ago
To me it's the sum of that and using a term from hard science. But the whole article doesn't indeed look like the author is trying to do fake science.
Telemakhos · 1h ago
The author talks about certain groups, like offshored call center employees whose sleep schedule is shifted so that they can respond to needs of people in a different time zone... but wouldn't mobile phone usage have a more widespread (really pervasive) impact on sleep than irregular labor conditions for a few? There are studies showing significant associations of mobile phone use and poor sleep quality.[0] I don't get the feeling that a strong link between mobile phone use and poor sleep quality would appeal to the Journal of Political Philosophy, though.
I didn't see those studies cited but it does specifically mention the use of communication devices in the bedroom.
lurk2 · 1h ago
> The model of an eight-hour, unbroken sleep is a modern and western one, coinciding with the advent of electric lighting and the new routines of the workday, and achieved through class struggle in the emerging industrial workplace.
That tracks, it was a scandal-dogged publication that finally closed the year after this article was published, following the resignation of the editorial board.
cwmoore · 1h ago
This makes me so happy to see, for so many people, now and in the future.
just-working · 1h ago
End DST!
kennywinker · 59m ago
> Given the difficulty and undesirability of restoring the practices that underpin those norms, the challenge is develop societies that no longer presuppose them.
Is this a joke? Instead of idk improving labour laws… more worker power / unionization… let’s just stop “oppressing” people with assumptions about their sleep schedule.
They’ve hit on something real, but their solution is bonkers.
One thing that came out of those discussion is a four-day school week. That is popular with rural parents across cultures.
The fact that some of our students come from a White or Hispanic or Native American heritage doesn't enter into the conversation, other than through their individual expressed preferences. Some cultures tend to speak more quietly and it's up to us to listen carefully. But we care about what those parents care about, not what our assumptions about their culture would lead us to guess they care about.
And honestly, I’ve been both, and it mostly comes down to rearranging the day around an early schedule, and to a lesser degree, being motivated. I used to wake up at 4.30 when I was motivated at work. And I’d always have classified myself as a late sleeper.
1) There are social, economic, and institutional norms surrounding sleep.
2) These norms are defined (or at least abided) by a majority group.
3) A minority of individuals can’t abide by these norms either due to physiological differences or necessity.
4) Some people benefit from the work that this minority does, and the minority is not adequately compensated in comparison to the benefits they generate.
It was my first impression as well, but if I get over my gag reflex and actually read the lines carefully, it seems the "injustice" basically means that people with different schedules are treated unfairly by society and the "minorities" are precisely those with different schedules.
[0] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9707689/ in India, https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychiatry/articles/10.... in UK
The scholarship on this isn’t good.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/zutvcs/comme...
Is this a joke? Instead of idk improving labour laws… more worker power / unionization… let’s just stop “oppressing” people with assumptions about their sleep schedule.
They’ve hit on something real, but their solution is bonkers.