There was an Opinion piece the other day criticizing Mamdani's NYC city-run grocery plan.
It focused on the incompatibility of what he was proposing with how the grocery store industry operates at large.
But I think the comparison was too focused on dynamics of large supermarkets. Of course a city-run grocery cannot and should not attempt to operate with the SKU count of a larger chain. Running a simpler operation with a smaller SKU count, like Trader Joe's does, is orders of magnitude more feasible and probably delivers exactly what most customers are looking for. Cost-effective, no-frills local produce & household staples. There are plenty of places to buy frozen foods, cereal, snacks, drinks, prepared foods, etc.
A model like Traders' that eliminates middleman, while leveraging city funding to subsidize the infrastructure, could deliver fresh local produce and household staples at near cost. And aren't those the things we want to encourage people to eat? Aren't fresh, simple foods the most deserving of subsidy?
> Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.
> Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something.
I don't think this is an example of curious, good-faith comment. If you'd like to have a substantive discussion on the practical merits/drawbacks of a program like this, I'd be happy to.
jschveibinz · 15h ago
I am not the GP, but I will offer some concerns for a "city operated" grocery service:
1. The incentives for good service and product are not well-defined other than paycheck and goodwill. This must be a very high priority.
2. The city has many responsibilities--some critical to life and civil order--which are of much greater importance than grocery service. Therefore the competition for money and resources is weaker.
3. A large percentage of state and city residents and taxpayers--who are ostensibly the benefactors of the grocery service--may not see any benefit at all from the grocery service because of location, selection, convenience, etc. This immediately creates an antagonistic relationship with a class of people--may leading to legal challenges.
4. Starting a grocery service requires very large investments of capital. Typically, that capital investment has a potential ROI, e.g. a bond. If the goal is to sell groceries at lower prices (and profit margins), this may not be sufficient to satisfy the financing requirements--which can lead to bankruptcy.
almosthere · 16h ago
I mean I think it's all in that video, but if you want I can lay it out for you:
The grocery store in Cuba shows a REAL life example of what communism does. The eventual failure mode means you will eat the same 15 different possible things at the grocery store. You'll wait in line at said store because the hours are unreliable, and only open for 20 hours a week.
I think what the top poster was saying "And aren't those the things we want to encourage people to eat? Aren't fresh, simple foods the most deserving of subsidy?"
I don't think he quite understands when this mindset extends out to its eventual failure mode.
Why can't we turn people that are in victim/failure mode into thriving business leaders that want to CHANGE the world.
Some people fix a problem with a bucket under a leak in their roof. Some people fix the roof. I want a country filled with people that FIX THE DAMN ROOF!
sunscream89 · 16h ago
The mutagenic human quality for self success I believe you are looking for is “the grind.” Everyone wants to clever their way out of the work, and every upstart should try, though we often fool ourselves into putting off the real work when it would be easier to just do “the grind.”
Who could really start calling themselves successful programmers before mastering the grind? Ordinary people are more comfort and convenience prone.
almosthere · 15h ago
I think you're right - but there will always be a percentage of the population that wants to outperform for extra rewards (I mean that is Capitalism in a nutshell). We want to set up society such that this is possible. If you start with grocery stores, and later add a city subsidized Target, Apple, Walmart, etc... then those special out performers will move out of NYC.
johng · 11h ago
If I were to choose a business it would be Chick-Fil-A. They are super fast, efficient. Their employees seem to be leaps and bounds smarter, nicer and more efficient than other fast food restaurants.
Whether you like it or not, the fact that they are willing to sacrifice a butt-load of profit to close on Sundays because of their beliefs is quite amazing.
I've never had a bad experience at Chick-Fil-A... that's quite a statement as far as fast food goes.
scblock · 17h ago
No. Was that hard?
JohnFen · 14h ago
No. No country should be run like, or by, a business.
It focused on the incompatibility of what he was proposing with how the grocery store industry operates at large.
But I think the comparison was too focused on dynamics of large supermarkets. Of course a city-run grocery cannot and should not attempt to operate with the SKU count of a larger chain. Running a simpler operation with a smaller SKU count, like Trader Joe's does, is orders of magnitude more feasible and probably delivers exactly what most customers are looking for. Cost-effective, no-frills local produce & household staples. There are plenty of places to buy frozen foods, cereal, snacks, drinks, prepared foods, etc.
A model like Traders' that eliminates middleman, while leveraging city funding to subsidize the infrastructure, could deliver fresh local produce and household staples at near cost. And aren't those the things we want to encourage people to eat? Aren't fresh, simple foods the most deserving of subsidy?
See around 5 minute mark
> Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something.
I don't think this is an example of curious, good-faith comment. If you'd like to have a substantive discussion on the practical merits/drawbacks of a program like this, I'd be happy to.
1. The incentives for good service and product are not well-defined other than paycheck and goodwill. This must be a very high priority.
2. The city has many responsibilities--some critical to life and civil order--which are of much greater importance than grocery service. Therefore the competition for money and resources is weaker.
3. A large percentage of state and city residents and taxpayers--who are ostensibly the benefactors of the grocery service--may not see any benefit at all from the grocery service because of location, selection, convenience, etc. This immediately creates an antagonistic relationship with a class of people--may leading to legal challenges.
4. Starting a grocery service requires very large investments of capital. Typically, that capital investment has a potential ROI, e.g. a bond. If the goal is to sell groceries at lower prices (and profit margins), this may not be sufficient to satisfy the financing requirements--which can lead to bankruptcy.
The grocery store in Cuba shows a REAL life example of what communism does. The eventual failure mode means you will eat the same 15 different possible things at the grocery store. You'll wait in line at said store because the hours are unreliable, and only open for 20 hours a week.
I think what the top poster was saying "And aren't those the things we want to encourage people to eat? Aren't fresh, simple foods the most deserving of subsidy?"
I don't think he quite understands when this mindset extends out to its eventual failure mode.
Why can't we turn people that are in victim/failure mode into thriving business leaders that want to CHANGE the world.
Some people fix a problem with a bucket under a leak in their roof. Some people fix the roof. I want a country filled with people that FIX THE DAMN ROOF!
Who could really start calling themselves successful programmers before mastering the grind? Ordinary people are more comfort and convenience prone.
Whether you like it or not, the fact that they are willing to sacrifice a butt-load of profit to close on Sundays because of their beliefs is quite amazing.
I've never had a bad experience at Chick-Fil-A... that's quite a statement as far as fast food goes.