While committing genocide in Gaza, Israel is also in the process of dismantling the West Bank and starting the process there too.
They are a fascist, genocidal, terrorist state. And the west, Russia, and China are all complicit in aiding them. Truly awful.
slashdev · 9h ago
There isn't a genocide in Gaza, it's just a war, and casualty figures[1] are higher, but comparable to other modern urban conflicts such as the Battle of Mosul and not out of line with expectations.[2]
It's a war, and it's horrible, but it's not a genocide. However, in a different world where Hamas had the firepower of the IDF, we all know it would be a real genocide. They made that clear on Oct 7th with both actions and words.
You're welcome to make a counter-argument with numbers and logic, and compare to historical genocides, but you'll be forced to come to the same conclusion. Horrible as it is, and I am not disputing that, it is not a genocide.
I read the entire article and was unconvinced. For a genocide expert, he really didn’t lay out the argument well. And I think that’s because, at the end of the day, you can’t. The numbers don’t support it.
It would be very easy to change my entire opinion and convert me to your side - but I only respond to logical arguments made with factual data.
l33tbro · 3h ago
> It would be very easy to change my entire opinion and convert me to your side.
You're right. We should all be focused on your opinion and appeasing you when there is a systematic erasure and starving off of an indigenous population. We should totally wait until this current trajectory has been completed, and in the meantime say "well akshully guys, it's not a genocide yet".
Either way, clearly the bombing of civilian hospitals, schools, and starving of the indigenous population with state support is not a genocidal event. That would be totally illogical, as this is clearly a classic in-the-trenches war.
And while Hamas have offered to step aside, offered all prisoners in Feb 2025 in exchange for a complete withdrawal, and only 25% of Gazans support Hamas, this is definitely your standard war and not an occupied territory where a genocide is being committed.
slashdev · 43m ago
You claim my opinion doesn’t matter, but you want others to care about your opinion. You see the problem with that right?
You can repeat it as much as you want. It’s not a genocide. Obviously not all wars are fought in the trenches. This one has the enemy hiding under hospitals and schools using the populace as human shields. They desire more civilian casualties, because that helps them win the PR war. Convincing people like you who aren’t so good at logical reasoning.
dttze · 8h ago
You’re denying a genocide. Even the western press is starting to admit it to cover their asses. European leaders are speaking their toothless rhetoric to cover their asses.
They are doing mass starvation and forced famine. They are slaughtering women and children by the tens of thousands, and likely more. They refuse to let anyone monitor this “war”. They kill aid workers. They deliberately target and kill doctors and health workers. Their leaders speak of cleansing Gaza of Palestinians and making it Jews only.
This isn’t a war, and you weren’t forced to think otherwise. You choose to be ignorant and support this vile, inhumane action.
Also you completely avoided the topic of the West Bank. Which disproves what you are saying pretty clearly and demonstrates this is a genocide targeting all Palestinians.
slashdev · 6h ago
Prove it with numbers, not feelings.
Israel is making mistakes, and doing things they shouldn’t, no doubt. But they’re not committing genocide.
dttze · 3h ago
They refuse to let anyone monitor Gaza, they kill government officials, they destroyed almost all the hospitals.
Who exactly would be reporting these numbers you claim to want? The health ministry that is barely functioning; the one you already said you don’t believe?
It’s a ghetto undergoing a genocide. It’s farcical to say you want hard numbers when Israel and the US are doing everything they can to hide it.
slashdev · 3h ago
Use the health ministry numbers, let’s pretend they’re accurate. Compare that with wars versus genocides and tell me which this resembles more closely.
It’s an easy exercise. I’ve done it. It’s a war.
dttze · 2h ago
It’s not accurate, it’s undercounted. There is no working health system in Gaza. So, once again, who is supposed to be keeping an accurate count that would satisfy your need for numbers?
slashdev · 41m ago
That’s a cheap cop out to not do the work. Multiply the numbers by two to account for your alleged undercounting. Estimate how many of those are combatants and how many civilians. Compare to other urban guerrilla warfare. I’ll respect you if you at least try the exercise.
dlubarov · 1h ago
GHF isn't only reporting casualties recorded by the regular health system though. They've been incorporating casualty reports from a variety of other sources, including a Google form where regular Gazans report casualties.
georgemcbay · 7h ago
They are confiscating baby formula from doctors visiting Gaza to induce starvation.
That's not something you do as an act of war, that's planned genocide.
You are a genocide apologist.
slashdev · 6h ago
Prove it with numbers.
There are plenty of criticisms one can make about how Israel is behaving in this conflict. But that’s a far cry from a genocide.
NomDePlum · 11h ago
Horrifying how a country can deliberately and systematically manufacture the conditions required for this to happen across a population of millions. Meanwhile the world watches on pretty much in silence.
xchip · 17h ago
Hulk Hogan death's post in HN has 81 upvotes and 96 comments. I'm curious to see what happens to this one.
phantompeace · 15h ago
Some of the people at the top of YC (e.g Garry Tan) are staunch Zionists. Surprisingly, and refreshingly, it seems PG himself sees through all of the bullshit and consistently asks questions to understand why people have become ok with the murders of innocent children. Although I have spoke about this a couple of times in the past, that too is weighing on myself - have I actually done enough? What use are a few social media comments in the grand scheme of things?
jfengel · 11h ago
It's actually not too hard to understand. For many Israelis, the October 7 massacre was the final straw after decades of rocket attacks and other forms of terrorism.
As TFA says, Israel blames Hamas. They consider removing Hamas an existential matter, and Hamas is holding the Gazans hostage.
I'm not trying to excuse, merely explain. It is not mere bloodthirst. It is a sincere (if possibly incorrect) belief that Gaza as a whole poses a sufficiently significant threat that civilian deaths -- even babies -- are an acceptable part of waging war.
CAVEAT: the current Israeli government, and a significant fraction of the public, may in fact be that bloodthirsty. Despite everything I just said, many people also hold some kind of religious belief that this land is their destiny, and that they are justified in claiming it by means I can only describe as "Old Testament".
That is not all Israelis; it is likely not a majority. (Elections are next year.) But even Israelis who bitterly oppose this government are sufficiently fearful of Hamas as to justify brutal suppression of all of Gaza.
phantompeace · 8h ago
I specifically didn’t mention Israelis or Jews. I’m sure there are plenty of good people in those camps that oppose Netanyahu. I speak about Zionists.
And let’s not pretend history started on October 7th, that region has been in turmoil for almost a century now, so trying to excuse the sniping of children in the head, mass starvation, subjugation of a whole population, straight up ethnic cleansing in this day and age is indefensible no matter what happened. You say you’re not excusing but only explaining but I don’t want to hear any explanation that equates babies as threats that are okay to kill in war. Hamas could’ve dropped a nuke on Tel Aviv and it still wouldn’t excuse sniping innocent children in the head. Did it become okay to liquidate the ghettoised Jews because they struggled for their freedom? They tried to rise up too? They weren’t prepared to lay down without a fight. And where is the outrage against the Israeli government for firing on their own citizens at the festival?
dttze · 11h ago
Cool, now explain what they are doing in the West Bank right now, with overwhelming support from the Israeli population.
Sabinus · 6h ago
Slowly taking land, because if they can't have security through a negotiated peace they'll have it by taking more land. It's cynical and harms the negotiated peace process, but the hope for a peace deal is low and falling after the multiple failed deals and good offers.
They are a fascist, genocidal, terrorist state. And the west, Russia, and China are all complicit in aiding them. Truly awful.
It's a war, and it's horrible, but it's not a genocide. However, in a different world where Hamas had the firepower of the IDF, we all know it would be a real genocide. They made that clear on Oct 7th with both actions and words.
You're welcome to make a counter-argument with numbers and logic, and compare to historical genocides, but you'll be forced to come to the same conclusion. Horrible as it is, and I am not disputing that, it is not a genocide.
[1] Even if you trust Gaza's health ministry numbers, which have already been proven to be inflated and quietly updated: https://www.euronews.com/2025/04/03/hamas-run-health-ministr...
[2] https://www.jstribune.com/frantzman-comparing-gaza-with-mosu...
[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIlA7QGofFE
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/15/opinion/israel-gaza-holoc...
It would be very easy to change my entire opinion and convert me to your side - but I only respond to logical arguments made with factual data.
You're right. We should all be focused on your opinion and appeasing you when there is a systematic erasure and starving off of an indigenous population. We should totally wait until this current trajectory has been completed, and in the meantime say "well akshully guys, it's not a genocide yet".
Either way, clearly the bombing of civilian hospitals, schools, and starving of the indigenous population with state support is not a genocidal event. That would be totally illogical, as this is clearly a classic in-the-trenches war.
And while Hamas have offered to step aside, offered all prisoners in Feb 2025 in exchange for a complete withdrawal, and only 25% of Gazans support Hamas, this is definitely your standard war and not an occupied territory where a genocide is being committed.
You can repeat it as much as you want. It’s not a genocide. Obviously not all wars are fought in the trenches. This one has the enemy hiding under hospitals and schools using the populace as human shields. They desire more civilian casualties, because that helps them win the PR war. Convincing people like you who aren’t so good at logical reasoning.
They are doing mass starvation and forced famine. They are slaughtering women and children by the tens of thousands, and likely more. They refuse to let anyone monitor this “war”. They kill aid workers. They deliberately target and kill doctors and health workers. Their leaders speak of cleansing Gaza of Palestinians and making it Jews only.
This isn’t a war, and you weren’t forced to think otherwise. You choose to be ignorant and support this vile, inhumane action.
Also you completely avoided the topic of the West Bank. Which disproves what you are saying pretty clearly and demonstrates this is a genocide targeting all Palestinians.
Israel is making mistakes, and doing things they shouldn’t, no doubt. But they’re not committing genocide.
Who exactly would be reporting these numbers you claim to want? The health ministry that is barely functioning; the one you already said you don’t believe?
It’s a ghetto undergoing a genocide. It’s farcical to say you want hard numbers when Israel and the US are doing everything they can to hide it.
It’s an easy exercise. I’ve done it. It’s a war.
That's not something you do as an act of war, that's planned genocide.
You are a genocide apologist.
There are plenty of criticisms one can make about how Israel is behaving in this conflict. But that’s a far cry from a genocide.
As TFA says, Israel blames Hamas. They consider removing Hamas an existential matter, and Hamas is holding the Gazans hostage.
I'm not trying to excuse, merely explain. It is not mere bloodthirst. It is a sincere (if possibly incorrect) belief that Gaza as a whole poses a sufficiently significant threat that civilian deaths -- even babies -- are an acceptable part of waging war.
CAVEAT: the current Israeli government, and a significant fraction of the public, may in fact be that bloodthirsty. Despite everything I just said, many people also hold some kind of religious belief that this land is their destiny, and that they are justified in claiming it by means I can only describe as "Old Testament".
That is not all Israelis; it is likely not a majority. (Elections are next year.) But even Israelis who bitterly oppose this government are sufficiently fearful of Hamas as to justify brutal suppression of all of Gaza.
And let’s not pretend history started on October 7th, that region has been in turmoil for almost a century now, so trying to excuse the sniping of children in the head, mass starvation, subjugation of a whole population, straight up ethnic cleansing in this day and age is indefensible no matter what happened. You say you’re not excusing but only explaining but I don’t want to hear any explanation that equates babies as threats that are okay to kill in war. Hamas could’ve dropped a nuke on Tel Aviv and it still wouldn’t excuse sniping innocent children in the head. Did it become okay to liquidate the ghettoised Jews because they struggled for their freedom? They tried to rise up too? They weren’t prepared to lay down without a fight. And where is the outrage against the Israeli government for firing on their own citizens at the festival?