I’ve been doing this for a while, and I love it. On my regular walks, I don’t even carry the phone; the watch[1] is enough for the list of whitelisted people to call me if needed (all else are DND by default).
Another thing I’ve noticed about people, even when we’re talking in person. Whenever a topic arises that requires confirmation or something similar, they pull out their phone and start “googling.”
I’m OK with saying, “I don’t know.” I’ve stopped defending my opinions and let the conversation flow, and I listen. This is very liberating.
Of course, stopped non-critical notifications[2] a decade ago, and there are no social Apps on my phone.[3] I’m lucky to be able to stop a habit cold turkey. Of course, a little help from a blocker is beneficial at the beginning, but I can quickly get used to not using/visiting apps and websites.
I’ve forgotten who said it but here is how it goes, “Build up a network of people, tools, utilities, system to stay away from Algorithm.”
Perfect length post, perfect CSS, perfect font family.
For whatever it's worth after years of being in a space that felt very similar to this my solution was... Having a kid and / or going to Recurse Center and / or moving to a non-LA/NY city.
I don't know if any of it's causal but I have finally crossed over some kind of line. I read books again (like I ever really did), I don't think about social media, I don't have that toxic icky parasocial relationship feeling, I don't even know how to use social media UIs when I see them anymore.
Its fantastic, I'm sure writing / reading this kind of post is a good first step so bravo and welcome (back) to the resistance.
Wait does HN count as social media? Does linkedin? Does Slack ir Teams at work? Does SMS??
(Thanks to everyone who have already joined the waitlist and provided feedback)
sangeeth96 · 2h ago
I wish we didn't stuff being "anti-algorithm" under "minimalism". It's just not the same thing. I don't want to go minimalist even if I respect the folks who do.
I wish I could pay for YouTube and other apps and they'd stop cramming their decisions on my feed and instead let _me_ control the experience. At least, let me have reverse-chronological feeds on my home, mute/block channels I don't care about, hide content types and give me more recommendations based on the things I actually like or prefer to consume at that point. I still want to use their apps but almost all of their product leads have decided even paying for something like "Premium" wouldn't entitle a customer to having control over their experience. It's gross.
alisonatwork · 29m ago
FreeTube and PipePipe largely solve this problem for me. I just subscribe to people I am interested in and watch their videos. If they link or recommend another creator I have a quick browse and subscribe there too, or not. When I get bored, I unsubscribe. Everything is chronological. It's like the good old days of mailing lists/usenet/blogs/RSS except with video.
The only downside is that it's still centralized behind the scenes so you still get the weird algorithm gimmickry inside the content like people superstitiously saying or not saying certain words in the first few minutes, nonsense like "nothing to add, just commenting for the algorithm", that weird tendency to dopily repeat the same sentences around what I guess would be an ad break if I ever saw ads etc. I try to mitigate this by sending money to specific creators, showing that an alternative income source to YouTube could be possible, but of course that's still funneled through Patreon which is another centralized for-profit service that has a vested interest in getting creators to provide membership tiers and value-adds that chip away at their motivation to put out meaningful content that enriches broader society.
I've come to think that centralization is a bigger problem than "the algorithm". I don't remember having these issues anywhere near as much when people shared their stuff independently. To be fair, though, back then most people were doing it as a hobby outside of their day job.
fgbarben · 2h ago
How do you not understand that creating and participating in a Reddit focused on digital minimalism moves you overall in the complete opposite direction of digital minimalism?
cornfieldlabs · 33m ago
I didn't create that subreddit BTW.
But it is good to have a community
Varun08 · 2h ago
don't you think any non algo social network eventually becomes an algo one? there will be a feed of some kind that you did not curate..
cornfieldlabs · 35m ago
There will be a chronological feed comprised of
one's friends' posts.
It doesn't have to be curated.
Edit:
Raising VC funding is the main cause of enshittification.
We don't plan on doing that. It is not gonna cost us that much to run - there are not many non-techies who are ready to quit dooms-scrolling. Techies go for sites like Mastodon. So it will be a small group of people who would find this useful and that's enough.
It is something we have always wanted to build and building and maintaining is fun.
stroz · 1h ago
In the spirit of tech to enable more offline connection, this is why we built Soonly: https://soonly.com
Hope it helps in remembering to call friend and family!
molticrystal · 2h ago
I used to be a hybrid user, mixing RSS feeds with scrolling a set of pages a few page downs. Now I only use RSS feeds. To keep it manageable, they can be configured to be updated once or twice a day and have set restrictions on sites or search terms. https://hnrss.org/frontpage works for me as a restriction for stories on this site, but it can also filter by points or other criteria as well.
There are many mobile readers, for desktop I like QuiteRss & RSS Guard.
brailsafe · 35m ago
I've seen this take a few times, and I'm glad it works for you, but when I originally tried it (long before the super aggressive social media algos) I ended up chronically checking to see if new rss stuff was available just as frequently; it was the possibility of missing or discovering some news or interesting article that did it.
Now it's at most just websites, out of sight out of mind unless I'm really bored. Actually relevant or important information doesn't change that frequently, and I'd rather my favorite websites make a deliberate editorial effort to surface worthwhile stories I can check in on maybe once a week. The content drip, self selecting or not, is just too habit forming and not necessary at all.
Terr_ · 1h ago
At some point this leads to "abolish the DMCA".
Otherwise everybody figuring out how to disable the infinite scrolling or control your own subscriptions gets punished by the dark-pattern-pushers through the legal system.
Unscramble ROT-13 in order to stop a full-page autoplaying video? Federal felony.
turzmo · 1h ago
> It's also not possible to fully check out from social media.
Why not?
the_snooze · 1h ago
Some organizations use social media as their primary (if not their only) means of communicating with members. My gym, for example, uses Facebook to post day-to-day announcements.
ryandrake · 34m ago
That doesn't mean it's not possible to opt-out. It just means you need to give up something to do it. I'm not on Social Media (unless you consider HN to be), so it is possible.
grg0 · 16m ago
What could be so important from a gym to warrant day-to-day announcements anyway?
I go to the gym regularly...
the_snooze · 8m ago
This is a class-centric gym, so announcements are about changes in schedule and programming, especially if there's inclement weather.
Joel_Mckay · 1h ago
Facebook creates shadow profiles for nonparticipating users, where the advertising API is pervasive on the web and android apps.
See Privacy Badger for details... =3
anovikov · 8m ago
I don't understand what forces people to stay at all on social media apart from addiction itself. I quit it 8 years ago and never looked back, simply because after Trump came to power it has become unbearable. Remembering, it was still just fine until 2013 or so. It's Europe-specific but probably Maidan 2.0 and Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2014 was the trigger that permanently broke the social media into two antagonistic echo-chambers, both eventually filled with morons alone because all normal people left. For US, it definitely was Trump's campaign in 2015 and sudden realisation that "some real people they knew and respected can be THAT crazy".
News? You can still subscribe to a newspaper or a magazine like it's 1985, they aren't worse at all than they used to be. Dating? Tinder or local country-specific dating sites work better, and always did. Professional contacts? They never came from social media.
poopiokaka · 1h ago
This is cringe
thr0way120 · 2h ago
The algorithm is far worse than people realize. It is a pan-platform behavioral nudge strategy to contain people to behave a specific way and box them in. It is an effective social credit score.
After watching how it behaves across X, LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTube - its clear the recommendations and nudges are coordinated. It is more than likely there are secret data sharing agreements to enable it.
Its insidious because it controls your reach and "score" across all platforms and then can "attack" you by attempting to surface content to push your buttons negatively across channels.
My opinion is this isnt anything to do with advertising, its a kind of government level shaping operation to try to create societal stability.
I personally have seen:
- The algorithm deliberately "neg" me multiple times, it knows what I don't like and shows me content to trigger keywords it knows will get my attention or deliberately cause insecurity ("old" "broke" "loser" "creep" "bigot" "fat"). I never interact with any content with these words, but it shows them - My conclusion is this is some sort of behavioral nudge. It happens across platforms.
- After I spoke out about Microsoft's approach to H1B, my content was permanently shadowbanned and limited on LinkedIn
- YouTubers continually censor themselves. Instead of "sex" they say "ess." Instead of "murder" they say "delete." They are consciously changing their speech. This is pure 1984.
Furthermore, I am convinced the algorithm also "shapes" the opinions of those around you in relation to you. Something much bigger than simply "being advertiser friendly" is going on, its a back door social credit score, emotional containment and psychological warfare structure.It will only get worse.
Joel_Mckay · 32m ago
When you do a small study of 17000 users, it is a humbling experience to discover peoples behaviors are not as unique as most assume.
I wouldn't say they were nudged, but rather just addicted to engagement.
There are a lot more fun people out there, but ones shoveling misery are just really memorable. Have a wonderful day =3
Another thing I’ve noticed about people, even when we’re talking in person. Whenever a topic arises that requires confirmation or something similar, they pull out their phone and start “googling.”
I’m OK with saying, “I don’t know.” I’ve stopped defending my opinions and let the conversation flow, and I listen. This is very liberating.
Of course, stopped non-critical notifications[2] a decade ago, and there are no social Apps on my phone.[3] I’m lucky to be able to stop a habit cold turkey. Of course, a little help from a blocker is beneficial at the beginning, but I can quickly get used to not using/visiting apps and websites.
I’ve forgotten who said it but here is how it goes, “Build up a network of people, tools, utilities, system to stay away from Algorithm.”
1. https://brajeshwar.com/2024/watch-tiny-handy-computer/
2. https://brajeshwar.com/2014/missing-step-productivity-activi...
3. https://brajeshwar.com/2024/phone/
For whatever it's worth after years of being in a space that felt very similar to this my solution was... Having a kid and / or going to Recurse Center and / or moving to a non-LA/NY city.
I don't know if any of it's causal but I have finally crossed over some kind of line. I read books again (like I ever really did), I don't think about social media, I don't have that toxic icky parasocial relationship feeling, I don't even know how to use social media UIs when I see them anymore.
Its fantastic, I'm sure writing / reading this kind of post is a good first step so bravo and welcome (back) to the resistance.
Wait does HN count as social media? Does linkedin? Does Slack ir Teams at work? Does SMS??
We are also building a non-algorithmic private social network if anyone's interested: https://waitlist-tx.pages.dev
(Thanks to everyone who have already joined the waitlist and provided feedback)
I wish I could pay for YouTube and other apps and they'd stop cramming their decisions on my feed and instead let _me_ control the experience. At least, let me have reverse-chronological feeds on my home, mute/block channels I don't care about, hide content types and give me more recommendations based on the things I actually like or prefer to consume at that point. I still want to use their apps but almost all of their product leads have decided even paying for something like "Premium" wouldn't entitle a customer to having control over their experience. It's gross.
The only downside is that it's still centralized behind the scenes so you still get the weird algorithm gimmickry inside the content like people superstitiously saying or not saying certain words in the first few minutes, nonsense like "nothing to add, just commenting for the algorithm", that weird tendency to dopily repeat the same sentences around what I guess would be an ad break if I ever saw ads etc. I try to mitigate this by sending money to specific creators, showing that an alternative income source to YouTube could be possible, but of course that's still funneled through Patreon which is another centralized for-profit service that has a vested interest in getting creators to provide membership tiers and value-adds that chip away at their motivation to put out meaningful content that enriches broader society.
I've come to think that centralization is a bigger problem than "the algorithm". I don't remember having these issues anywhere near as much when people shared their stuff independently. To be fair, though, back then most people were doing it as a hobby outside of their day job.
Edit: Raising VC funding is the main cause of enshittification. We don't plan on doing that. It is not gonna cost us that much to run - there are not many non-techies who are ready to quit dooms-scrolling. Techies go for sites like Mastodon. So it will be a small group of people who would find this useful and that's enough. It is something we have always wanted to build and building and maintaining is fun.
Hope it helps in remembering to call friend and family!
There are many mobile readers, for desktop I like QuiteRss & RSS Guard.
Now it's at most just websites, out of sight out of mind unless I'm really bored. Actually relevant or important information doesn't change that frequently, and I'd rather my favorite websites make a deliberate editorial effort to surface worthwhile stories I can check in on maybe once a week. The content drip, self selecting or not, is just too habit forming and not necessary at all.
Otherwise everybody figuring out how to disable the infinite scrolling or control your own subscriptions gets punished by the dark-pattern-pushers through the legal system.
Unscramble ROT-13 in order to stop a full-page autoplaying video? Federal felony.
Why not?
I go to the gym regularly...
See Privacy Badger for details... =3
News? You can still subscribe to a newspaper or a magazine like it's 1985, they aren't worse at all than they used to be. Dating? Tinder or local country-specific dating sites work better, and always did. Professional contacts? They never came from social media.
After watching how it behaves across X, LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTube - its clear the recommendations and nudges are coordinated. It is more than likely there are secret data sharing agreements to enable it.
Its insidious because it controls your reach and "score" across all platforms and then can "attack" you by attempting to surface content to push your buttons negatively across channels.
My opinion is this isnt anything to do with advertising, its a kind of government level shaping operation to try to create societal stability.
I personally have seen:
- The algorithm deliberately "neg" me multiple times, it knows what I don't like and shows me content to trigger keywords it knows will get my attention or deliberately cause insecurity ("old" "broke" "loser" "creep" "bigot" "fat"). I never interact with any content with these words, but it shows them - My conclusion is this is some sort of behavioral nudge. It happens across platforms.
- After I spoke out about Microsoft's approach to H1B, my content was permanently shadowbanned and limited on LinkedIn
- YouTubers continually censor themselves. Instead of "sex" they say "ess." Instead of "murder" they say "delete." They are consciously changing their speech. This is pure 1984.
Furthermore, I am convinced the algorithm also "shapes" the opinions of those around you in relation to you. Something much bigger than simply "being advertiser friendly" is going on, its a back door social credit score, emotional containment and psychological warfare structure.It will only get worse.
I wouldn't say they were nudged, but rather just addicted to engagement.
There are a lot more fun people out there, but ones shoveling misery are just really memorable. Have a wonderful day =3