Fun, and nice addition, but again another good example of let's sneak some rust in critical parts of the kernel so that rust will become mandatory.
I would not really have noticed if there wasn't this section about why rust, where arguments looks phony and clearly made up afterward to justify a decision that was already taken:
This project was written in rust, because memory safety is critical in a panic handler.
For this particular case, I found the Rust code to be cleaner, and easier to read.
> There is no particular reason to do it in rust, I just wanted to learn rust, and see if it can work in the kernel.
Which I think is fairer. Good on him for trying to stay on top of recent developments. With Linux basically supporting Rust now so it's a valid choice, especially for a new component. Plus, it's not like this is an important features, the anti-Rust people can live perfectly fine without QR code crash dumps like they have for decades now.
I think doing this in C is an unnecessary risk (you really don't need all that many raw pointer interactions and shared struct ownership) but the security and stability of this component hardly matters. The kernel is already dead because of a bug or a hardware failure anyway, this is just making the catastrophic failure of the rest of the system a bit prettier.
Good catch, didn't spot that on the freedesktop site and the docs page linked. I've edited my comment.
My apologies to kdj0c if he's reading this.
rs186 · 58m ago
> let's sneak some rust in critical parts of the kernel so that rust will become mandatory.
This project is a great example of where and when Rust should be used.
"sneak" some rust in the kernel? It is exactly this kind of attitude that is slowing progress.
rcxdude · 4h ago
I suspect it's more of a 'this would be handy to have, and I would prefer to use rust' as opposed to motivated by making the language harder to do without in the kernel. Certainly this kind of thing I would find rust much nicer for than C.
(I would agree the first argument is kinda wavy. If anything the panic handler has a fairly unique relationship with memory safety: it's likely to be executing in an environment where that's already gone out the window and it needs to try to assume as little as possible about what might or might not be correct that its reading from and writing to, while also its own memory safety is perhaps less critical because the system is already crashing, it's just got to get the info out before everything completely stops. Though that doesn't make it immune from security concerns. A code execution vulnerability in the handler means any panic could turn into a worse problem)
tialaramex · 2h ago
The elaborate Rust type system and so on does not exist in the machine code executing when "the system is already crashing". Very often it turns out that expressive Rust you wrote which talks about a fancy Iterator protocol and a lambda function just got compiled into the same sixteen CPU instructions that would have been emitted for the (much harder to understand) macro expanded C you'd have to write instead with the same meaning.
Rust vs C matters a lot more for maintainers, who read the source code - hopefully not from a machine which is currently crashing - than for the executable kernel itself.
ChocolateGod · 3h ago
What's the need for memory safety if the kernel is going to stop executing and memory will be wiped before any further execution is done.
krior · 2h ago
Memory safety is not just about releasing unused memory.
kookamamie · 2h ago
Agreed, picking Rust for the project likely has very little to do with "memory safety".
varispeed · 1h ago
> because memory safety is critical in a panic handler.
As in: I can't be bothered to write memory safe code.
Am4TIfIsER0ppos · 3h ago
How am I supposed to use a QR code when the only thing that I have to decode it is currently panicking? If I am supposed to draw it I hope it is only a few bits. A traditional BSOD with codes and registers would be easier to copy.
bauruine · 3h ago
It may isn't useful for you but a huge majority has a phone they can use for this task.
elmigranto · 3h ago
What if your phone’s kernel panics? :)
andrelaszlo · 3h ago
Bring out the crayons and some graph paper!
tialaramex · 3h ago
Did you know other people have phones too?
ChocolateGod · 3h ago
That's planned obsolescence and you should get a new one.
It has nothing to do with digital rights management.
I would not really have noticed if there wasn't this section about why rust, where arguments looks phony and clearly made up afterward to justify a decision that was already taken:
> There is no particular reason to do it in rust, I just wanted to learn rust, and see if it can work in the kernel.
Which I think is fairer. Good on him for trying to stay on top of recent developments. With Linux basically supporting Rust now so it's a valid choice, especially for a new component. Plus, it's not like this is an important features, the anti-Rust people can live perfectly fine without QR code crash dumps like they have for decades now.
I think doing this in C is an unnecessary risk (you really don't need all that many raw pointer interactions and shared struct ownership) but the security and stability of this component hardly matters. The kernel is already dead because of a bug or a hardware failure anyway, this is just making the catastrophic failure of the rest of the system a bit prettier.
"Pronouns: He/Him" https://gitlab.com/kdj0c
My apologies to kdj0c if he's reading this.
This project is a great example of where and when Rust should be used.
"sneak" some rust in the kernel? It is exactly this kind of attitude that is slowing progress.
(I would agree the first argument is kinda wavy. If anything the panic handler has a fairly unique relationship with memory safety: it's likely to be executing in an environment where that's already gone out the window and it needs to try to assume as little as possible about what might or might not be correct that its reading from and writing to, while also its own memory safety is perhaps less critical because the system is already crashing, it's just got to get the info out before everything completely stops. Though that doesn't make it immune from security concerns. A code execution vulnerability in the handler means any panic could turn into a worse problem)
Rust vs C matters a lot more for maintainers, who read the source code - hopefully not from a machine which is currently crashing - than for the executable kernel itself.
As in: I can't be bothered to write memory safe code.