This is hard to take. Unquestionably, to me, Brian Wilson was the greatest composer of pop music we've ever had.
Even Wilson's most recent work - when he was very clearly suffering a lot - is so deeply interesting, and weird, and moving, and has a total mastery of his craft.
From 2021 - "Right Where I Belong":
'''
I get anxious. I get scared a lot.
That's what I live with.
It should get better, really, any day now -
- those were my teenage years.
They said: "Go out and get a steady job."
That was the worst idea!
All night and day, another lonely song -
- to get me through again.
In my fantasy I'm never far from home.
But in reality I know where I belong.
For me, the love - that's what the music really is.
I know that love is what I rеally want to share.
So I went out and got a steady a job -
- so many golden years.
That rhapsody to me: the music calls -
- to ride the wave again.
He was America. The idealism, the bizarro suburban sincerity, the descent into late-century darkness, the total mastery of the form: the ability to write a two-minute song as if it were a perfectly manicured lawn, capturing all its layered uncanniness. Melodies and harmonies that have beauty beyond language - he really did write for the entire universe. It didn't matter if his songs were to girls, or waves, or particularly quick cars.
He was a prophet of his time in the same way that William Blake was. It all feels so incredibly inevitable. I really hope he understood that he was as important as Bacharach and maybe Bach - though I don't get the sense, as much as one can from the outside, as a fan, that he'd particularly care. He had too much love for his work.
Surf's up, I guess. Thank you very much for it all, Brian, if you're reading this. Your work makes me believe that you could.
parpfish · 13h ago
> He was America. The idealism, the bizarro suburban sincerity, the descent into late-century darkness, the total mastery of the form
I often thought that Brian Wilson and David Lynch were like mirror images of each other and now they're both gone
gabriel666smith · 13h ago
I typed "Lynchian" then deleted it - it's overused, but, for Brian Wilson (and Lynch - a compliment to them both) I think, in hindsight, it's appropriate, just about.
arthurcolle · 13h ago
David Lynch died??
hammyhavoc · 12h ago
Wow, you're going to be having a doubly-rough day. I'll raise a cold one to you.
parpfish · 11h ago
not a cold one.
for those two, you should celebrate with a cup of coffee from a diner and a coca-cola from the drive-in
pimeys · 10h ago
A pack of Metropolitan cigarettes...
SlowTao · 10h ago
Now that I can get behind.
defen · 8h ago
> not a cold one.
Why not a nice cold Heineken?
parpfish · 7h ago
Heineken?!
HEINEKEN?!
Pabst.
Blue.
Ribbon.
simlevesque · 13h ago
Yes, in January
JKCalhoun · 11h ago
Tough for me as well. I'm at an age where I can expect a lot of my icons to head out. And already so many have.
There is something I think undeniably innocent about the time in the U.S. when The Beach Boys were on top of their game. Never mind Milner from American Graffiti "I don't like that surfin' shit. Rock and roll's been going down hill ever since Buddy Holly died."
They were a part of an America I don't even recognize anymore. Thank god those of us old enough got at least a glimpse of that time. And I suppose to the degree Brian captured it in The Beach Boys music, maybe we can hold on to the memory of it at least.
And I think that's what's toughest. I'm seeing the luminaries of a better time winking out one by one.
Lest I sound too down, I am always hopeful though for the generations that are coming up being able to make a brighter future for themselves.
gabriel666smith · 8h ago
I wasn't there - I won't politically nitpick about the innocence of the period - and to do so would also be wildly inappropriate to the very sad topic.
But positively, and optimistically, I do think things are passed on, even if we don't quite understand how.
From Bob Dylan's Nobel Prize acceptance speech:
'''
"I saw [Buddy Holly] only but once, and that was a few days before he was gone. I had to travel a hundred miles to get to see him play, and I wasn’t disappointed.
"He was powerful and electrifying and had a commanding presence. I was only six feet away. He was mesmerizing.
I watched his face, his hands, the way he tapped his foot, his big black glasses, the eyes behind the glasses, the way he held his guitar, the way he stood, his neat suit. Everything about him. He looked older than twenty-two.
Something about him seemed permanent, and he filled me with conviction.
Then, out of the blue, the most uncanny thing happened. He looked me right straight dead in the eye, and he transmitted something.
Something I didn’t know what. And it gave me the chills.
I think it was a day or two after that that his plane went down."
'''
Though Dylan loves to self-mythologize, if I'm going to believe anybody alive about how a baton, or muse, or torch, or access to transcendent beauty might be passed on, I'd choose to believe him. Especially given the context in which he implied this unusually (for him) sincere thing: "take this and run with it."
Even reduced to something as material and measurable as 'influence', I think that's worth a great deal of optimism. We won't get another Brian Wilson. That's very, very sad. But his work remains - even if his time doesn't. Bob was of another time to Buddy. There will always be young people.
JKCalhoun · 8h ago
Wild story.
Yeah, it's easy to shoot holes in "innocent time" but god knows, just in terms of the complexity of what you have to know just to function in society — I am sure it is somehow measurably more complex now then it was then.
So maybe I should have said a simpler time.
gabriel666smith · 8h ago
I completely understand what you mean - and that there's certainly a psychological weight to the complexity we've added to interpersonal interaction over the last half-century. Spending extended time in cash-focused, relatively low-tech environments (the more rural parts of southern Europe, for example), the difference in psychological load is extremely noticeable. I feel a sort of basic non-comprehension in the US and UK that I don't feel in some other places.
For example - something as simple as going to a grocery shop during the specific hours in which you know it is open, and saying hello to the person you know works that shift, and exchanging metal circles and numbered paper for produce: this process requires significantly less abstract thought - and abstraction of oneself from society - when compared to using a self-checkout and Apple Pay (let alone a delivery app).
That tech all came in before I was 18, so I don't think it's an age thing - I think it's just weird, and complex, and unnatural for the animal brain if one's economic and social dealings don't primarily involve other animals. I don't like living in a vending machine!
I didn't want to shoot holes in any way, to be clear. Innocence is a very reasonable synonym, now that I understand what you mean (without sounding too luddite / romanticising).
alexjplant · 14h ago
I'm convinced that "Pet Sounds" is lyrically a proto-emo album dressed up in an instrumental psychedelic doo-wop trenchcoat. For years I dismissed it as one of those albums that people pretended to like to seem smart until I was mature enough to understand it. Now it's one of my favorites.
RIP.
jmann99999 · 11h ago
What sticks with me about Pet Sounds, aside from its unique sound, is that Brian Wilson put sand in his house around the piano to make a more physical and emotional atmosphere in which to help his creation. Here is the only photo I have seen of that. [0]
It is funny when you hear the stories behind some of the biggest albums and there is more often than not something like that. It looks odd but the results tend to yield some amazing results.
I am not the biggest fan of Wilsons stuff but you could never accuse him of just phoning it in.
not_your_mentat · 11h ago
Brian took Beach Boys very literally.
jjice · 14h ago
A friend recommended it to me two weeks ago for our weekly album swap. I didn't really like it for the first listen or two, and then holy cow it hit me. I've been spinning it regularly since.
Truly a fantastic album.
sndean · 14h ago
Just related to Pet Sounds, I remember God Only Knows has been cited by Paul McCartney and others as their favorite song of all time. Even though the song is very odd in many ways.
10729287 · 13h ago
The Beatles wouldn’t have been the band they became without The Beach Boys. And vice versa. The competition was tough between those guys back in the days. Surf’s up.
xeromal · 11h ago
The problem was it was Brian Wilson vs the beatles who all were pretty talented. He had no backup
mgkimsal · 11h ago
Carl and Dennis both grew in to good songwriters, in different ways, but neither were close to being able to work with Brian in those early years. By the time they could, Brian seemed to be largely gone. Had they had all that combined talent together functioning at the same time, things would have turned out different (and ideally better).
parpfish · 5h ago
... now say something nice about mike.
WalterBright · 10h ago
The interesting thing about McCartney & Lennon is they competed with each other and critiqued each other, and that resulted in their greatest songs. After they went their own ways, there songs weren't as good. I suspect there was nobody else who dared to criticize their work.
throwaway422432 · 5h ago
Interesting idea. Thom Yorke and Jonny Greenwood seem to have a similar dynamic.
Both have their own thing going on the side, including The Smile together which is great. But Radiohead where they had Ed, Phil and Colin critiquing and improving their output is a different level of polish.
daveevad · 13h ago
You reminded me that one of Brian Wilson's favorite songs was "Be My Baby" by The Ronettes.
I suspect it is precisely because the song is very odd in many ways that it is so interesting
soulofmischief · 14h ago
It's definitely one of my all-time favorites. It's literally a perfect song in every respect. Wilson was a songwriter's songwriter
dailyplanet · 12h ago
Brian Wilson cited "Strawberry Fields Forever" by The Beatles as one of his favorite songs -- he apparently had to pull over because he was having a nervous breakdown after hearing it on the radio, and he was in tears and said "They got there first." Pet Sounds was the response to Rubber Soul, and then Sgt. Pepper was The Beatles response to Pet Sounds.
amanaplanacanal · 11h ago
Yeah, John Lennon had that magic too, but certainly in a darker way.
tayo42 · 10h ago
I remeber reading about him writing songs and the effort he put into it, I think pet sounds, and then realizing the Beatles were releasing music at the same time. I felt a little bad because it seems like he was just in the shadow of the Beatles.
So much musical talent at the time, crazy to think about
basisword · 12h ago
It's a brilliant song. In which ways is it odd though? I've always thought of it as just a classic 60's pop song. Listening again nothing jumps out as particularly unusual.
sndean · 12h ago
This might be referenced in one of the replies but basically 1) it doesn’t have the normal verse-chorus structure, 2) not really any drums, 3) the chord progression don’t follow an obvious pattern for the time and genre, and 4) the end just fades out where you can imagine it simply continuing forever. I really like the song, and maybe it stands out as a favorite because of these features like someone commented above. I just wanted to point out that it’s unusual unlike nearly every other pop song.
recursive · 11h ago
One more. Most of the song is in triplet swing, but there's a harpsichord(?) interlude in straight 8th-note feel, that's also completely harmonically disconnected from the rest of the song.
racl101 · 13h ago
> I dismissed it as one of those albums that people pretended to like to seem smart for years until I was mature enough to understand it.
heh, I always liked this album as a kid cause mom would play the record a lot. It was my fave do math homework background music. That and Pink Floyd (Echoes).
As a kid: "I'm Waiting For The Day" was a great song cause it was lively and bouncy.
But as an adult: "Let's Go Away For Awhile" is more captivating.
A little something there for everyone I tell you hwhat.
jihadjihad · 14h ago
Damn. I was literally thinking about the following quote from Dennis Wilson while I was getting ready this morning:
"Brian Wilson is the Beach Boys. He is the band. We're his fucking messengers. He is all of it. Period. We're nothing. He's everything." [0]
It was just a random thought I had this morning, related to how his brothers and father are depicted in Love and Mercy.
For all their abilities and talent, I think Dennis had it right. Brian was the Beach Boys. RIP.
Yeah, older me was surprised that The Wrecking Crew performed on so many of their albums. The singing was all Beach Boys ... but yeah, I think the song-crafting, that was all Brian.
ZeroGravitas · 13h ago
On that note, the Brian Wilson song "Guess I'm Dumb" which was rejected by the other Beach Boys and instead released with vocals by Wrecking Crew member and touring Beach Boy Glen Campbell is an obvious foreshadowing of the Pet Sounds mood and sound, as well as a beautiful song.
brandall10 · 13h ago
Just a note on how this came to be - Phil Spector's "Be My Baby", released in '63 became an obsession for Wilson upon first listen. This obsession led to him sitting in on studio sessions w/ Spector, and of course, that was his introduction to the Wrecking Crew and that style of working.
KerrAvon · 14h ago
There's a hilarious-in-retrospect interview where McCartney praises the unusual placement of notes in a particular bassline on a particular song and attributes it to Brian Wilson's genius. Later it was revealed to be entirely due to Carol Kaye, the bass player on that session.
(Not to take anything away from Brian's actual genius!)
tjr · 12h ago
Carol has said though that, for the most part, Brian did write the bass parts that she played.
adamc · 13h ago
It also illustrates the difference from the Beatles, who actually did compose most of their cool stuff (although Martin did help).
andy_xor_andrew · 14h ago
I encourage everyone to listen to his 1988 solo album self named “Brian Wilson”. It’s brilliant. Frequently called “Pet Sounds ‘88” since many fans consider it to be a spiritual sequel. The 80s synth dressing might seem off putting at first but the songwriting and musicality of it is just amazing.
Also, give a listen to Smile! - not Smiley Smile, or The Smile Sessions, but the 2004 recreation. It's quite mindblowing. If you close your eyes you can hear it as a true symphony.
if we're sharing tunes from lesser-known artists on Bandcamp-
the clever timpani line in this track will sound familiar to anyone who has ever heard Pet Sounds :) I thought it was a very appropriate appropriation of a famous Brian Wilson track.
If one day humanity is long gone, I'd be OK with that as long as God Only Knows is out there in the ether waiting to be found.
JKCalhoun · 14h ago
Two albums (vinyl) my mom got for me when I was maybe 9 years old — "Simon and Garfunkel's Greatest Hits" and "The Beach Boys — High Water".
What a wild thing to get a 9 year old kid. Music. Both albums formed who I am today musically. When YouTube came around I was able to find out that Brian often was the one singing the amazing falsetto parts.
"I get around / From town to town / I'm a real cool head / I'm making real good bread"
My wife took me to see him a few years ago and I'm so glad. One of the most influential people in rock and roll for sure and I hope in time more people realize that.
Tragic life story w/r/t Eugene Landy, but some truly amazing music. I'm glad his career bounced back in recent decades and he was able to die widely-loved instead of in obscurity. I will watch Norbit (2007) tonight in his honor.
"T.A.M.I. Show is a 1964 concert film released by American International Pictures.[1] It includes performances by numerous popular rock and roll and R&B musicians from the United States and England. The concert was held at the Santa Monica Civic Auditorium on October 28 and 29, 1964. Free tickets were distributed to local high school students. The acronym "T.A.M.I." was used inconsistently in the show's publicity to mean both "Teenage Awards Music International" and "Teen Age Music International"."
It's stacked with amazing performers, most at the beginning of their careers, including a young Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys.
dogman1050 · 11h ago
A childhood memory is hearing Good Vibrations through a crystal radio using my bedframe as an antenna while in a hypnogogic state, supposed to be sleeping. It felt other-worldly.
parpfish · 7h ago
Check out “Magic Transistor Radio” from their album Holland. It’s a story-song about a magic radio that comes alive at night to visit a kid (if I remember correctly)
maxfurman · 14h ago
I never realized Brian Wilson and Sly Stone were the same age. Small world
josh2600 · 14h ago
Yeah what a week to lose two giants. Both were great in very different but resonant ways.
BillSaysThis · 13h ago
The Beach Boys, on a double bill with Chicago, Madison Square Garden Summer ‘75, were my first concert. No Brian, of course, but all the songs were his. So many amazing tunes! (Note: despite going with my dad, we got stoned out of our gourds from the pot those around us were smoking.)
100pctremote · 14h ago
He understood and created music as a true genius. What a remarkable talent.
Take care Brian. I hope you've found a place where you can speak your mind.
gwbennett · 12h ago
Pet Sounds! A fantastic album and group!
So many great songs on all their albums.
Grew up listening to them.
kapitanjakc · 14h ago
The big bang theory series episode was the one that introduced me to Brian Wilson through Darlin.
RIP
onecommentman · 37m ago
Second-hand story:
In the 1960s, California high schools were enlightened enough to play pop music in their cafeterias. Normal pop drivel, while all the jaded teenagers were laughing and talking. One day, “Good Vibrations” starting playing, just after it was released. And I’ve been told everything in the cafeteria just stopped…all these teenagers stopped talking, and just listened. It was that significant a new sound…
mahanji · 13h ago
I was playing for an event just last night and told the woman tending bar that God Only Knows was one of Brian Wilson's best songs.
Ironic.
cjk · 11h ago
Absolutely gutted. I regret never seeing him live. RIP Brian.
scop · 14h ago
Wouldnt it be nice is such an amazing piece of art. Grew up hearing it, never listening to the lyrics. Thought it was fun. As an adult finally paid attention to the lyrics one day and they knocked me off my feet. The happiest most upbeat song is really singing about something not quite there, an ideal, but real, something to be grasped and lost…or let go…
What a genius to be able to pull that song off.
perrygeo · 7h ago
As a young kid, I loved the Beach Boys, mostly associated it with cars and surfboards and silly love songs. It hits different a few decades later, especially that song. "Maybe if we think and wish and hope and pray, it might come true"... oof.
nonameiguess · 14h ago
First concert I ever went to in 1988 with my aunt. Wouldn't it be Nice was my first "song" with my first girlfriend in high school. You gave so much to all of us, Brian. You earned the rest.
People ask who the current version of this kind of genius is for pop music, and between the one man band element, turns as a composer, and general weirdness and reclusiveness, Trent Reznor is probably who comes to mind for me, but even his heyday was 30 years ago. I have no idea who in their 20s might have this kind of impact. Let us appreciate these people while we can.
weakfish · 14h ago
Reznor is still highly active in scoring, I’d say his heyday is now depending on definition. The Social Network score is absurdly good.
Also, second time I’ve mentioned Reznor in context on HN today. Weird.
vorador · 14h ago
Not to detract from your point but the movie was (already!) 15 years ago
programd · 13h ago
Reznor released 5 movie scores last year. He's got 2 Oscars, 1 Emmy, 4 Grammys, and 3 Golden Globes the latest one this year. Multiple nominations in all those categories. He's far from done.
Apologies for the hijack. RIP Brian.
TeaBrain · 13h ago
I don't think this is pertinent to their point at all. They were just referencing the quality of one of the scores Reznor has done. Reznor has continued to score movies nearly every year since. I'd agree with them that Reznor's career heyday probably is now. He's writing scores for multiple productions a year while still playing stadiums with NIN.
dessimus · 13h ago
He was nominated in 2020 for an Academy Award in Best Original Score for both Mank and Soul, winning for Soul, plus a slew of other award ceremonies that season. Challengers in 2024 also had nominations in a bunch of awards.
mzg · 10h ago
In a lot of ways, Frank Ocean feels like the millennial Brian Wilson. Not sure if any zoomer musicians have had enough time in the spotlight to develop that sort of persona.
2OEH8eoCRo0 · 15h ago
RIP. What a creative titan/genius. When these giants pass away who replaces them? Who are the Brian Wilsons of today?
freedomben · 14h ago
Just a theory, but given how much fracturing/variation of music tastes people have developed in the last 50 years, I'm not sure there's enough of an audience for any of those mega bands to get to that level anymore (except for a few pop artists here and there).
I also suspect discoverability is a lot more of a challenge now too given the saturation of content out there and the small market. I've discovered some excellent bands (for my musical tastes of course, which are Rock & Metal) that I can't believe aren't bigger. These Four Walls and Thousand Needles In Red come to mind. Like Thieves is pretty decent too, nice music to put in the background on a drive through the canyon or while working. All of those bands are on Bandcamp btw.
mensetmanusman · 14h ago
Uhh Taylor Swift is the titans of titans now.
MomsAVoxell · 14h ago
Disclaimer; this is clearly going to be about personal tastes.
However, it has to be argued: Taylor hardly breaks through genres to create entirely new ones, as Brian Wilson or Sly Stone did.
Taylor is a ‘safe’ songwriter whose market is intolerant of exceeding the limits of her chosen genre - Brian and Sly, however, can be perceived as being far more progressive as artists, willing not only to break the conformity of their extant music market, but to excel at creating entire new genres on their own.
What is Taylors “Pet Songs”?
Taylor Swift is the least likely of the three to have created her own genre of music outside market expectations. While she’s undeniably innovative, her contributions largely refine and personalize existing genres (country, pop, indie-folk) rather than inventing entirely new ones.
Both Wilson and Stone created groundbreaking sounds—Wilson with orchestral pop and Stone with funk/psychedelic soul—that were more radical departures from their era’s commercial norms.
Between Wilson and Stone, Stone’s creation of funk and his influence across multiple genres (funk, soul, rock, hip-hop) arguably had a broader impact, but Swift’s work, while transformative, operates more within established frameworks.
vintermann · 14h ago
We won't really see until in retrospect. Something that today is "some little thing that one band does" may turn into something that gets seen as a whole genre tomorrow.
Case in point: I recently listened to "Tracks and Traces", a compilation of things Brian Eno did with Harmonia in 1976.
It IS "post-rock". You could slip some tracks from that album onto Mogwai's albums from the 2000s, and you would hardly notice something is amiss. And you know it wasn't a direct influence, because the recordings were only released 30 years later.
mahanji · 10h ago
I don't feel that Taylor Swift's songs go deeply within the soul.
I just can't believe someone that tone deaf could write good music.
bongodongobob · 14h ago
She certainly makes a lot of money. Brian Wilson was a writers writer. Taylor Swift isn't writing anything interesting that makes any song writer go "holy shit, that's genius". Music theorists don't study her music, she's not doing anything groundbreaking or new. She writes catchy songs for sure, but a lot of people do that.
blahpro · 14h ago
"except for a few pop artists here"
some-guy · 14h ago
Quite a few exist, there are just so many more of them, and most of them aren't making the top of the billboard charts.
Sufjan Stevens comes into mind for me as a songwriting workhorse with a wide array of styles but with a central theme, and amazing poetry / lyricism.
skyyler · 14h ago
SOPHIE was definitely in the running for being another Brian Wilson type. Her immense creativity was best when channeled through others, just like Brian's.
She enjoyed some widespread success during her short life, but since her death, the style of music she helped pioneer has exploded in popularity. The extremely popular "brat" album from last year contained both explicit celebration of her name and homage to her style.
But she's dead now. Her music still inspires me.
He's dead now, too. His music will continue to inspire me.
pimeys · 10h ago
Also her peers from the PC Music label:
A. G. Cook, Hannah Diamond, QT...
Tainnor · 11h ago
I absolutely adore Sufjan Stevens but at least around here barely anyone's heard of him.
mosburger · 14h ago
I think it'll be someone pushing the boundaries of hip hop/rap/etc., it feels like there's still a lot more experimentation and unexplored stuff that can happen there. And most of the people on HN probably won't really appreciate it much, just like the general population didn't quite fully appreciate Brian Wilson's genius back when he was doing his best work.
I'm not super close to that genre so I wouldn't dare hazard a guess who that might be.
MPSimmons · 14h ago
I think Ben Folds is underrated for what he's produced. I think people who listened to him in college write him off as being frat-rock but his stuff is actually super interesting, the more you dig.
donnachangstein · 14h ago
Ben is a hipster Elton John. To put him in the same league as Brian is insulting.
paddy_m · 14h ago
Ben probably wouldn't be offended by that. He described Ben Folds Five as "punk rock for sissies". Further he said that he was always compared to Billy Joel, but hadn't heard him until he was much older, he always cited Elton John as an influence.
spudlyo · 13h ago
Feh, more music about middle class white boy pain. I like his older stuff, but producers with computers fix all his shitty tracks these days.
Seriously though, it's often fraught with peril to try to compare two artists directly, especially across time, styles, and genres. For me, I just try to weigh how much enjoyment their respective catalogs have given me, and I've enjoyed the hell out of both Ben Folds and Beach Boys records. It's all good.
khazhoux · 14h ago
WTF, it's not insulting at all.
Ben is a master writer of story-driven songs, with a very wide range and top-notch musicianship. There is definitely a similarity.
Perhaps you're not familiar with his full catalog?
100pctremote · 14h ago
Ben is eminently and deeply talented, but it's just a different aesthetic that is mostly very literal and conventional. Brian Wilson's songwriting and production technique was a one-of-a-kind imprint.
donnachangstein · 14h ago
I never said Ben wasn't talented. He's very talented. I like Ben.
That said, they are leagues apart. It's like claiming Eric Clapton is as good as a guitarist in some shitty bar band.
Perhaps you're not familiar with who Brian was and what he's done.
cess11 · 14h ago
To me Wilson and Clapton are in the same league mainly due to rather unpalatable personalities, Wilson insisting on breaking the boycott of an apartheid state and Clapton throwing racist tantrums and profiting off a tragedy in his family.
micromacrofoot · 14h ago
calling someone Elton John also seems like a compliment?
Alex3917 · 14h ago
The ambient soundscapes of Burial's self-titled album have some similarities to the sonic soundscapes of pet sounds.
gabriel666smith · 7h ago
+1 - when I read GP's comment, and thought: "who composes music that it sounds like to be alive right now?", Burial was my first thought.
Maybe this opinion is a little dated - Burial started a couple of decades ago now - I'm sure there's someone smart and younger capturing the sonics of our current moment accurately. But Burial is a truly great composer.
I really despise the (unintentional, totally forgivable) YouTube-comment-vibe of "When these giants pass away who replaces them? Who are the Brian Wilsons of today?" - it's very "Like this comment if you like REAL music, not [young pop star]."
It takes decades and decades to understand who captured a time period accurately, and whose work anticipated and influenced the art that was to come. Burial is probably the wrong answer!
It takes so much time for an artist to become revered as a "giant". It requires deep historical understanding and deep critique. There is plenty of very beautiful music being made. Naturally none of it sounds like Brian Wilson's - it isn't Brian Wilson's.
I don't think anyone wants to see Burial inducted into the "Rock n Roll Hall of Fame" at this time, or playing the Sunday Afternoon Legends slot at Glastonbury. Ditto for (most of) the other names mentioned in response to GP.
Innovative and masterful craft rarely makes itself immediately apparent to its audience - it's not an instant-gratification commodity - the audience must also work to reveal it. Takes time!
xeromal · 14h ago
I think Tyler Childers is pretty talented.
tilne · 14h ago
Matt Jardine sang his parts I believe when I saw his band play a few years back.
perfmode · 10h ago
Justin Vernon of Bon Iver
Sufjan Stevens
Tainnor · 11h ago
One person who comes to my mind who is a) arguably a creative boundary-breaking genius and b) has some degree of success within mainstream pop is Rosalía. But she's more of an "artist's artist". A lot of modern pop icons cite her as an influence, but she's not nearly as well known as those are.
Even Wilson's most recent work - when he was very clearly suffering a lot - is so deeply interesting, and weird, and moving, and has a total mastery of his craft.
From 2021 - "Right Where I Belong":
'''
I get anxious. I get scared a lot. That's what I live with. It should get better, really, any day now - - those were my teenage years.
They said: "Go out and get a steady job." That was the worst idea! All night and day, another lonely song - - to get me through again.
In my fantasy I'm never far from home. But in reality I know where I belong.
For me, the love - that's what the music really is. I know that love is what I rеally want to share.
So I went out and got a steady a job - - so many golden years. That rhapsody to me: the music calls - - to ride the wave again.
https://youtu.be/FToNl9VyI0g?si=VEIOlTCsbYz2yy7g
'''
He was America. The idealism, the bizarro suburban sincerity, the descent into late-century darkness, the total mastery of the form: the ability to write a two-minute song as if it were a perfectly manicured lawn, capturing all its layered uncanniness. Melodies and harmonies that have beauty beyond language - he really did write for the entire universe. It didn't matter if his songs were to girls, or waves, or particularly quick cars.
He was a prophet of his time in the same way that William Blake was. It all feels so incredibly inevitable. I really hope he understood that he was as important as Bacharach and maybe Bach - though I don't get the sense, as much as one can from the outside, as a fan, that he'd particularly care. He had too much love for his work.
Surf's up, I guess. Thank you very much for it all, Brian, if you're reading this. Your work makes me believe that you could.
I often thought that Brian Wilson and David Lynch were like mirror images of each other and now they're both gone
for those two, you should celebrate with a cup of coffee from a diner and a coca-cola from the drive-in
Why not a nice cold Heineken?
Pabst. Blue. Ribbon.
There is something I think undeniably innocent about the time in the U.S. when The Beach Boys were on top of their game. Never mind Milner from American Graffiti "I don't like that surfin' shit. Rock and roll's been going down hill ever since Buddy Holly died."
They were a part of an America I don't even recognize anymore. Thank god those of us old enough got at least a glimpse of that time. And I suppose to the degree Brian captured it in The Beach Boys music, maybe we can hold on to the memory of it at least.
And I think that's what's toughest. I'm seeing the luminaries of a better time winking out one by one.
Lest I sound too down, I am always hopeful though for the generations that are coming up being able to make a brighter future for themselves.
But positively, and optimistically, I do think things are passed on, even if we don't quite understand how.
From Bob Dylan's Nobel Prize acceptance speech:
'''
"I saw [Buddy Holly] only but once, and that was a few days before he was gone. I had to travel a hundred miles to get to see him play, and I wasn’t disappointed.
"He was powerful and electrifying and had a commanding presence. I was only six feet away. He was mesmerizing.
I watched his face, his hands, the way he tapped his foot, his big black glasses, the eyes behind the glasses, the way he held his guitar, the way he stood, his neat suit. Everything about him. He looked older than twenty-two.
Something about him seemed permanent, and he filled me with conviction.
Then, out of the blue, the most uncanny thing happened. He looked me right straight dead in the eye, and he transmitted something.
Something I didn’t know what. And it gave me the chills.
I think it was a day or two after that that his plane went down."
'''
Though Dylan loves to self-mythologize, if I'm going to believe anybody alive about how a baton, or muse, or torch, or access to transcendent beauty might be passed on, I'd choose to believe him. Especially given the context in which he implied this unusually (for him) sincere thing: "take this and run with it."
Even reduced to something as material and measurable as 'influence', I think that's worth a great deal of optimism. We won't get another Brian Wilson. That's very, very sad. But his work remains - even if his time doesn't. Bob was of another time to Buddy. There will always be young people.
Yeah, it's easy to shoot holes in "innocent time" but god knows, just in terms of the complexity of what you have to know just to function in society — I am sure it is somehow measurably more complex now then it was then.
So maybe I should have said a simpler time.
For example - something as simple as going to a grocery shop during the specific hours in which you know it is open, and saying hello to the person you know works that shift, and exchanging metal circles and numbered paper for produce: this process requires significantly less abstract thought - and abstraction of oneself from society - when compared to using a self-checkout and Apple Pay (let alone a delivery app).
That tech all came in before I was 18, so I don't think it's an age thing - I think it's just weird, and complex, and unnatural for the animal brain if one's economic and social dealings don't primarily involve other animals. I don't like living in a vending machine!
I didn't want to shoot holes in any way, to be clear. Innocence is a very reasonable synonym, now that I understand what you mean (without sounding too luddite / romanticising).
RIP.
[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/thebeachboys/comments/137tx33/the_o...
I am not the biggest fan of Wilsons stuff but you could never accuse him of just phoning it in.
Truly a fantastic album.
Both have their own thing going on the side, including The Smile together which is great. But Radiohead where they had Ed, Phil and Colin critiquing and improving their output is a different level of polish.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be_My_Baby#Effect_on_Brian_Wil...
I suspect it is precisely because the song is very odd in many ways that it is so interesting
So much musical talent at the time, crazy to think about
heh, I always liked this album as a kid cause mom would play the record a lot. It was my fave do math homework background music. That and Pink Floyd (Echoes).
As a kid: "I'm Waiting For The Day" was a great song cause it was lively and bouncy.
But as an adult: "Let's Go Away For Awhile" is more captivating.
A little something there for everyone I tell you hwhat.
"Brian Wilson is the Beach Boys. He is the band. We're his fucking messengers. He is all of it. Period. We're nothing. He's everything." [0]
It was just a random thought I had this morning, related to how his brothers and father are depicted in Love and Mercy.
For all their abilities and talent, I think Dennis had it right. Brian was the Beach Boys. RIP.
0: https://books.google.com/books?id=eYyovo_AbqAC
(Not to take anything away from Brian's actual genius!)
Also, give a listen to Smile! - not Smiley Smile, or The Smile Sessions, but the 2004 recreation. It's quite mindblowing. If you close your eyes you can hear it as a true symphony.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UbNwhm2EX8
Surfside Motel:
"And I've been in this town so long that I'm back in the city...
And don't you know it was the government stopped the Beach Boys from releasing 'Smile'...." [1]
[1] https://dolefullions.bandcamp.com/track/surfside-motel
the clever timpani line in this track will sound familiar to anyone who has ever heard Pet Sounds :) I thought it was a very appropriate appropriation of a famous Brian Wilson track.
https://willyrodriguez.bandcamp.com/track/rosemary
(for anyone listening who is not versed in Pet Sounds, it's the famous drum line from "I'm Waiting For the Day")
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NADx3-qRxek
and this beautiful film, very touchingly explores his life with the always-excellent Paul Dano.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lioWzrpCtGQ
What a wild thing to get a 9 year old kid. Music. Both albums formed who I am today musically. When YouTube came around I was able to find out that Brian often was the one singing the amazing falsetto parts.
"I get around / From town to town / I'm a real cool head / I'm making real good bread"
On the Ed Sullivan show on bass: https://youtu.be/ruKCw797JM4
RIP to a real one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-ZjIdyWu-U
"T.A.M.I. Show is a 1964 concert film released by American International Pictures.[1] It includes performances by numerous popular rock and roll and R&B musicians from the United States and England. The concert was held at the Santa Monica Civic Auditorium on October 28 and 29, 1964. Free tickets were distributed to local high school students. The acronym "T.A.M.I." was used inconsistently in the show's publicity to mean both "Teenage Awards Music International" and "Teen Age Music International"."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.A.M.I._Show
It's stacked with amazing performers, most at the beginning of their careers, including a young Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys.
https://music.apple.com/us/album/sweet-mountain/1102333773?i...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wWBV3QCbGE&list=PLhinduWcIK...
Grew up listening to them.
RIP
In the 1960s, California high schools were enlightened enough to play pop music in their cafeterias. Normal pop drivel, while all the jaded teenagers were laughing and talking. One day, “Good Vibrations” starting playing, just after it was released. And I’ve been told everything in the cafeteria just stopped…all these teenagers stopped talking, and just listened. It was that significant a new sound…
What a genius to be able to pull that song off.
People ask who the current version of this kind of genius is for pop music, and between the one man band element, turns as a composer, and general weirdness and reclusiveness, Trent Reznor is probably who comes to mind for me, but even his heyday was 30 years ago. I have no idea who in their 20s might have this kind of impact. Let us appreciate these people while we can.
Also, second time I’ve mentioned Reznor in context on HN today. Weird.
Apologies for the hijack. RIP Brian.
I also suspect discoverability is a lot more of a challenge now too given the saturation of content out there and the small market. I've discovered some excellent bands (for my musical tastes of course, which are Rock & Metal) that I can't believe aren't bigger. These Four Walls and Thousand Needles In Red come to mind. Like Thieves is pretty decent too, nice music to put in the background on a drive through the canyon or while working. All of those bands are on Bandcamp btw.
However, it has to be argued: Taylor hardly breaks through genres to create entirely new ones, as Brian Wilson or Sly Stone did.
Taylor is a ‘safe’ songwriter whose market is intolerant of exceeding the limits of her chosen genre - Brian and Sly, however, can be perceived as being far more progressive as artists, willing not only to break the conformity of their extant music market, but to excel at creating entire new genres on their own.
What is Taylors “Pet Songs”?
Taylor Swift is the least likely of the three to have created her own genre of music outside market expectations. While she’s undeniably innovative, her contributions largely refine and personalize existing genres (country, pop, indie-folk) rather than inventing entirely new ones.
Both Wilson and Stone created groundbreaking sounds—Wilson with orchestral pop and Stone with funk/psychedelic soul—that were more radical departures from their era’s commercial norms.
Between Wilson and Stone, Stone’s creation of funk and his influence across multiple genres (funk, soul, rock, hip-hop) arguably had a broader impact, but Swift’s work, while transformative, operates more within established frameworks.
Case in point: I recently listened to "Tracks and Traces", a compilation of things Brian Eno did with Harmonia in 1976.
It IS "post-rock". You could slip some tracks from that album onto Mogwai's albums from the 2000s, and you would hardly notice something is amiss. And you know it wasn't a direct influence, because the recordings were only released 30 years later.
https://www.reddit.com/r/travisandtaylor/comments/1ew4iqo/my...
It's a good thing that her mic is always off in concert (apparently she's been using the same "live" soundtrack for a while at her concerts).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8rMNMURShM
I just can't believe someone that tone deaf could write good music.
Sufjan Stevens comes into mind for me as a songwriting workhorse with a wide array of styles but with a central theme, and amazing poetry / lyricism.
She enjoyed some widespread success during her short life, but since her death, the style of music she helped pioneer has exploded in popularity. The extremely popular "brat" album from last year contained both explicit celebration of her name and homage to her style.
But she's dead now. Her music still inspires me.
He's dead now, too. His music will continue to inspire me.
A. G. Cook, Hannah Diamond, QT...
I'm not super close to that genre so I wouldn't dare hazard a guess who that might be.
Seriously though, it's often fraught with peril to try to compare two artists directly, especially across time, styles, and genres. For me, I just try to weigh how much enjoyment their respective catalogs have given me, and I've enjoyed the hell out of both Ben Folds and Beach Boys records. It's all good.
Ben is a master writer of story-driven songs, with a very wide range and top-notch musicianship. There is definitely a similarity.
Perhaps you're not familiar with his full catalog?
That said, they are leagues apart. It's like claiming Eric Clapton is as good as a guitarist in some shitty bar band.
Perhaps you're not familiar with who Brian was and what he's done.
Maybe this opinion is a little dated - Burial started a couple of decades ago now - I'm sure there's someone smart and younger capturing the sonics of our current moment accurately. But Burial is a truly great composer.
I really despise the (unintentional, totally forgivable) YouTube-comment-vibe of "When these giants pass away who replaces them? Who are the Brian Wilsons of today?" - it's very "Like this comment if you like REAL music, not [young pop star]."
It takes decades and decades to understand who captured a time period accurately, and whose work anticipated and influenced the art that was to come. Burial is probably the wrong answer!
It takes so much time for an artist to become revered as a "giant". It requires deep historical understanding and deep critique. There is plenty of very beautiful music being made. Naturally none of it sounds like Brian Wilson's - it isn't Brian Wilson's.
I don't think anyone wants to see Burial inducted into the "Rock n Roll Hall of Fame" at this time, or playing the Sunday Afternoon Legends slot at Glastonbury. Ditto for (most of) the other names mentioned in response to GP.
Innovative and masterful craft rarely makes itself immediately apparent to its audience - it's not an instant-gratification commodity - the audience must also work to reveal it. Takes time!
Sufjan Stevens
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0933092/
https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.brianwilson.com/
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Brian Wilson, visionary creative spirit for the Beach Boys, dies aged 82 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44249510 - June 2025
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