Pass the choices through, please. It's so context dependent that I want a <dumber> and a <smarter> button, with units of $/M tokens. And another setting to send a particular prompt to "[x] batch" and email me with the answer later. For most things I'll start dumb and fast, but switch to smart and slow when the going gets rough.
ramesh31 · 11h ago
Flash is just so obscenely cheap at this point it's hard to justify the headache of self hosting though. Really only applies to sensitive data IMO.
xfalcox · 6h ago
You'd be surprised how often people in enterprise can be left waiting months to get an API key approved for an LLM provider.
cortesoft · 4h ago
There is a wide range of opinions on what should be considered sensitive data. Many people would classify a vast majority of their data as sensitive.
mkl · 8h ago
With tools like Ollama, self-hosting is easier than hosted. No sign-up, no API keys, no permission to spend money, no worries about data security, just an easy install then import a Python library. Qwen2.5-VL 7B is proving useful even on a work laptop with insufficient VRAM - I just leave it running over a night or weekend and it's saving me dozens of hours of work (that I then get to spend on other higher-value work).
genewitch · 7h ago
I got the 70b qwen llama distill, I have 24GB of vram.
I opened aider and gave a small prompt, roughly:
Implement a JavaScript 2048 game that exists as flat file(s) and does not require a server, just the game HTML, CSS, and js. Make it compatible with firefox, at least.
That's it. Several hours later, it finished. The game ran. It was worth it because this was in the winter and it heated my house a bit, yay. I think the resulting 1-shot output is on my github.
I know it was in the training set, etc, but I wanted to see how big of a hassle it was, if it would 1-shot with such a small prompt, how long it would take.
Makes me want to try deepseek 671B, but I don't have any machines with >1TB of memory.
I do take donations of hardware.
mgraczyk · 8h ago
It does not take dozens of hours to get an API key for gemini
cortesoft · 4h ago
They weren’t saying getting the api key would take that long, just getting permission from their company to let them do it.
mkl · 8h ago
I never claimed that it did. Gemini would probably save me the same dozens of hours, but come with ongoing costs and additional starting up hurdles (some near insurmountable in my organisation, like data security for some of what I'm doing).
shmoogy · 7h ago
Gemini flash or any free LLM on openrouter would be orders of magnitude faster and effectively free. Unless you are concerned about privacy of the conversation - it's really purely being able to say you did it locally.
I definitely do appreciate and believe in the value of open source / open weight LLMs - but inference is so cheap right now for non frontier models.
jacob019 · 10h ago
That's true for Flash 2.0 at $0.40/mtok output. GPT-4.1-nano is the same price and also surprisingly capable. I can spend real money with 2.5 flash, with those $3.50/mtok thinking tokens, worth it though. OP is an inference provider, so there may be some bias. Open source can't compete on context length either, nothing touches 2.5 flash for the price with long context--I've experimented with this a lot for my agentic pricing system. Open source models are improving, but they aren't really any cheaper right now, R1 for example does quite well performance wise, but it uses a LOT of tokens to get there, further limiting the shorter context window. There's still value in the open source models, each model has unique strengths and they're advancing quickly, but the frontier labs are moving fast too and have very compelling "workhorse" offers.
behnamoh · 11h ago
You're getting downvoted but what you said is true. The cost of self-hosting (and achieving +70 tok/sec consistently across the entire context window) has never been low enough to justify open source as a viable competitor to proprietary models of OpenAI, Google, and Anthropic.
grepfru_it · 8h ago
I am curious the need for 70 t/sec?
Aeolun · 7h ago
Waiting minutes for your call to succeed is too frustrating?
ekianjo · 3h ago
Depends entirely on the use case. Not every LLM workflow is a chatbot
I opened aider and gave a small prompt, roughly:
That's it. Several hours later, it finished. The game ran. It was worth it because this was in the winter and it heated my house a bit, yay. I think the resulting 1-shot output is on my github.I know it was in the training set, etc, but I wanted to see how big of a hassle it was, if it would 1-shot with such a small prompt, how long it would take.
Makes me want to try deepseek 671B, but I don't have any machines with >1TB of memory.
I do take donations of hardware.
I definitely do appreciate and believe in the value of open source / open weight LLMs - but inference is so cheap right now for non frontier models.