Autonomous drone defeats human champions in racing first

127 picture 99 6/4/2025, 8:03:43 PM tudelft.nl ↗

Comments (99)

bri3d · 5h ago
This is quite cool since past efforts in this direction have usually relied on crutches like outside-in imaging and positioning.

A few details I picked up:

* The drones are a spec drone across the league. It's a fairly large-footprint FPV racing drone (it's a 5" propped drone, but it's very stretched out and quite heavy) with both a Betaflight flight controller and a Jetson Orin NX onboard. Teams were only allowed an IMU and a single forward camera.

* It's unclear to me whether the teams were allowed to bypass the typical Betaflight flight controller which is present on the drone and use direct IMU input and ESC commands from the Jetson, or whether they were sending and receiving commands from the flight controller and relying on its onboard rate stabilization PID loop.

DCL is kind of a weird drone racing league since it's made for TV; it's mostly simulator based with, more recently, only few real events a year. The spec DCL drone isn't very capable compared to the more open-specification drones in racing leagues like MultiGP, in large part to keep the events more spectator friendly. This probably makes it more amenable to AI, which is an interesting side effect.

generalizations · 5h ago
From near the bottom:

> One of the core new elements of the drone’s AI is the use of a deep neural network that doesn’t send control commands to a traditional human controller, but directly to the motors.

bri3d · 5h ago
I saw that too - I'm assuming it means they're indeed using the DNN for stabilization. This has been done several times over the years, but generally with results which only rival PID and don't surpass it, so that's quite interesting. What's odd is that the physical architecture of the drone doesn't really make sense for this, so there must be some tweaks beyond the "spec" model. Hopefully some papers come soon instead of press releases.
koolala · 4h ago
This is crazy, its dexterity and range of motion could potentially exceed all human modeled systems.
HenryBemis · 5h ago
I assume that they shave off milliseconds by doing so, and a gyroscope (or similar) sends back the position/angle of the drone. And like this does it bypass the 'limited' onboard computer and instead uses a much better/faster computer?
NegativeLatency · 4h ago
I imagine the slower speed is a closer fit to combat drones (which have a payload and sometimes a fiber optic cable)? Also watching MultiGP they sorta move/accelerate too fast for me to fully appreciate the maneuvering.

Feels kinda similar to the innovation around manned aircraft about 100 years ago when we went from toy/observation platform to killing machine in only a couple of decades. With the ardupilot news today, it was hard to not watch this and imagine the applications to a combat environment.

Aurornis · 4h ago
> I imagine the slower speed is a closer fit to combat drones

A lot of comments are trying to draw connections to combat drones, but drone racing like this has been a hobby thing for a long time. The capabilities of the drones are set to have an even playing field, not to match combat drones or anything.

These aren't meant to have any parallels to combat drones, drones that fly long distances, or drones that carry payloads.

It's really just a special-purpose hobby thing for flying through a series of gates very quickly. Flight time measured in a couple minutes, no provisions for carrying weight.

itishappy · 5h ago
There's a few more details in the press release from the league itself. Sounds like they were really trying to put these things through their paces.

> The course design pushed the boundaries of perception-based autonomy—featuring wide gate spacing, irregular lighting, and minimal visual markers. The use of rolling shutter cameras further heightened the difficulty, testing each team’s ability to deliver fast, stable performance under demanding conditions

https://a2rl.io/press-release/9/artificial-intelligence-triu...

jandrese · 6h ago
This is only a few days after the massive drone attack in Russia. Only a matter of time until we have drones smart enough to dodge bullets (or at least dodge out of where guns are pointing) while flying at breakneck speeds being controlled by AIs we don't fully understand.

The tech industry is working hard to bring about the Terminator future.

allturtles · 3h ago
“What hope can there be for mankind,” I thought, “when there are such men as Felix Hoenikker to give such playthings as ice-nine to such short-sighted children as almost all men and women are?”

And I remembered The Fourteenth Book of Bokonon, which I had read in its entirety the night before. The Fourteenth Book is entitled, “What Can a Thoughtful Man Hope for Mankind on Earth, Given the Experience of the Past Million Years?”

It doesn’t take long to read The Fourteenth Book. It consists of one word and a period.

This is it:

“Nothing.”

--Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle

insane_dreamer · 6h ago
This is portrayed in Ministry for the Future which describes AI controlled swarms of small drones/bombs that fly apart and come together at their target and are almost impossible to stop.
chrisweekly · 6h ago
Fantastic book, highly recommended.
Taek · 2h ago
I tried to read the book and to me it came off as little more than doomer and disaster pornography. I found a lot of the situations to be far fetched and didn't feel like it portrayed a realistic image of how the world works.
MangoToupe · 1h ago
Interesting! I found it to be almost too optimistic or unbelievably hopeful.
GuinansEyebrows · 5h ago
yeesh. i made this comparison once and HN told me that campy action movies are bad to base policy on :\
nothrabannosir · 5h ago
Obligatory link to the short film (future documentary) “Slaughterbots” (2017), which depicts exactly this in harrowing detail:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-2tpwW0kmU

trhway · 4h ago
>drones smart enough to dodge bullets

well, there will be similarly smart "predator"/defense drones. The humans will have no chances on such a battlefield populated by thousands drones per square kilometer fighting each other.

>The tech industry is working hard to bring about the Terminator future.

And i think removing people from the battlefield is a good thing.

>or at least dodge out of where guns are pointing

just a bit of arithmetic comparing new weapons - drones vs. classic guns. Say a radar guided gun takes 1 sec. to train onto a drone and shoot several bullets. The range is max 3 km (an expensive 20mm-30mm autocannon like Pantsir) - 35 seconds for a 200 miles/hour drone. Thus all it takes is maximum 36 such drones coming simultaneously from all the directions to take out that gun. At less than $1000/drone it is many times cheaper than that radar guided gun. (and that without accounting for the drones coming in very low and hiding behind trees, hills, etc and without the first drones interfering with the radar say by dropping a foil chaff clouds, etc.) It is basically a very typical paradigm shift from vertical scaling to horizontal scaling by way of software orchestrated cheap components.

impossiblefork · 4h ago
>And i think removing people from the battlefield is a good thing.

It is very dangerous, since it will mean that an organization with enough drones can dominate society on its own. Much better if humans were battlefield-relevant.

MangoToupe · 1h ago
Don't we already have this in the form of the state?
trhway · 4h ago
It is understandable pure-logic thinking until you're the one to be made battlefield-relevant.

And if you look at Russia your logic does fail on that example - no amount of human losses affect Russia's behavior in the current war as they are sure that Ukraine will run out of soldiers before Russia does. So, from Russia's POV the faster the grinder the sooner their victory.

impossiblefork · 3h ago
No.

Here in Sweden we instituted mandatory military service we did so because we wanted to ensure that there was no military class that if they decide to can take over. We knew the cost, and the cost is worth it.

In normal times the cost is simply to do ones mandatory military service.

This protects against coups, ensures your power in society and prevents groups of officers and soldiers etc. from taking over.

trhway · 3h ago
Man, with all the respect to Sweden, you're in your own [very high] class.
spaceman_2020 · 5h ago
Some of this stuff is getting to the point where we will seriously need to have a global talk on whether we should put a pin in this tech or not
tonyarkles · 5h ago
The child comments from yours are mentioning nuclear weapons as a parallel but there's one big difference between drone tech and nuclear weapons: plutonium is really hard to make.

We might be able to put a pin in this tech from a policy perspective, but the cat is way out of the bag as far as the tech goes. A cell phone already has all of the sensors you need baked right into it (honestly, we can thank mobile devices for getting the cost down). An ESC for a motor is a cheap microcontroller and a couple of MOSFETs. The frames can be made of cheap plastic. Even if things like ArduPilot didn't exist, a smart EE student could build one from scratch, including the flight control software, using parts from Digikey and relatively basic PID control code.

The cat is definitely out of the bag.

bamboozled · 4h ago
A lunatic will be able to wipe out school children playing outside and have little chance of getting caught, for example.

Nice.

bravoetch · 3h ago
Yes, and so far it's much easier to drive a van into a crowd of people. Nobody has tried to mandate tech in cars that detects and prevents such malicious behavior.
bamboozled · 2h ago
Can you drive a van into a group of people without even being physically present though ?
tonyarkles · 42m ago
Yes. https://www.psu.edu/news/campus-life/story/hackers-who-remot...

Even without vulnerabilities like that, something like https://comma.ai/openpilot could very likely be used in the same way ArduPilot was used in the recent Ukrainian drone attacks.

tonyarkles · 2h ago
I mean... yeah, that’s a definite possibility. If a lunatic has access to explosives, there’s an infinite number of ways they could do that.

The hard part is that there is no effective way to regulate anything in the supply chain involved except for the explosives themselves. Everything else is super commoditized at this point and, other than the props, very multi-purpose. The first significant hexcopter I built used a BeagleBone Blue for processing, generic ESCs and BLDCs for the motors, and an aluminum frame that I cut out of aluminum tubes from Home Depot. Max takeoff weight was 55lb, because that’s the heaviest it could legally take off with. This was 7 years ago.

switchbak · 5h ago
I'm sure that everyone would agree on that, and that $bad_actor wouldn't take advantage of the fact that everyone else had agreed to lay down their arms. Game theory sucks, but it's hard to get around.
jolt42 · 5h ago
why? if nuclear weapons got the green light, do you expect a different outcome?
AlienRobot · 5h ago
Because nuclear weapons got the green light.
jandrese · 5h ago
As if the billionaires won't simply go "F that noise, more money for me!!!" Ethical concerns are way down the priority list for most AI focused companies.
trhway · 4h ago
There wouldn't be any pin in it. Drones - automated weapons in the wide sense - will be the new MAD/equalizer weapon accessible to smaller countries who have no chances of getting into the nuclear club. Without such a weapon in the coming new world order - marked specifically by the USA's withdrawal from enforcing international law - they will be an easy prey to the bigger countries. Ukraine is just a preview of that equalizing power.
stackedinserter · 6h ago
OTOH there's no mass adoption of autonomous drones after 3+ years of real active war between two technologically advanced nations.
dji4321234 · 5h ago
There's enormous adoption of autonomous drones.

A large number of front-line FPV drones are equipped with automated last-second targeting systems like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coUwYOyIoAU , based on Chinese NPU IP / CCTV systems and readily available as full solutions on Aliexpress. The basic idea is that if the drone loses control or video link due to EW countermeasures, it can continue to the last target.

Loitering and long-range fixed wing reconnaissance drones have been fully autonomous since the beginning. One common recent technique taken from traditional "big" militaries is the use of loitering autonomous high altitude base stations with Starlink or LTE on them providing coverage to the battlefield below, since it's much harder to jam things when they are flying high above the ground.

switchbak · 5h ago
Maybe we should come back to this in a few years, I think this will have aged worse than the old dropbox comment.

Governments are falling over themselves to: acquire drones, figure out how to defend against existing and future drones, and to figure out how to exploit them well. Given the recent attack against Russian bombers, I find it hard to take you seriously here.

Hell, the US knows it can't compete with China on aircraft numbers, and is placing its money on collaborative combat aircraft to give it the advantage. That's about as strong an endorsement as you can get.

XorNot · 3h ago
What the Loyal Wingman program is trying to build is extremely far from what people keep thinking when someone says "drone". The word is overloaded as hell: no one draws a distinction between a quadrotor with a 20 minute flight time and an air breathing jet aircraft costing $20 million a piece.

But then they go and say "drone swarms will defeat all future adversaries!"

Like in the Ukrainian context everyone seems to think the drone swarm was the deciding factor and is saying "this will replace air forces!"...kind of ignoring the multi month infiltration and espionage operation which got those systems in range (they were literally trucked right up to almost the fence line).

dghlsakjg · 5h ago
Are you sure?

One of the theories for why there were tires on top of the russian planes that were bombed is that it confuses automatic targeting systems by breaking up the profile of the airplane used in automatic target recognition systems.

Hell, even hobbyist level DIY drone stuff can be easily programmed to run an autonomous route with or without a radio link connection. This is a huge reason that GPS is just constantly jammed in this part of the world. If you can get a GPS signal on the battlefield, you can tell a drone to go destroy something.

arcticfox · 53m ago
Remember when TB-2s and grenade bombers were the peak of drone technology in Ukraine? That was like 2 years ago, now the frontlines are draped in equal parts anti-drone netting and fiberoptic threads.
jandrese · 6h ago
There is already mass adoption of drones, the AI stuff is only lagging behind slightly.
ceejayoz · 6h ago
As long as the end of civilization comes soon, we'll be fine!
insane_dreamer · 6h ago
The seeds of the Butlerian Jihad
Swoerd · 6h ago
-That you know of.
Leo-thorne · 55m ago
I’ve seen AI beat humans in simulations before, but doing it on a real track with the same hardware is honestly kind of amazing. What surprised me the most is they didn’t use any traditional flight controller. They just let the neural network handle the flying.

I’m really curious how this would perform in messier, less controlled environments.

atonse · 6h ago
Oh man, can anyone imagine a non-Terminator scenario for this?

Update: I'm not saying people shouldn't develop this, we're never going to squash human curiosity. But when I see this kind of stuff, I'm deeply troubled by how bad actors (state and non-state) will use this.

I hope our security services are working hard on countering these potential threats.

MoonGhost · 11m ago
This will definitely be used in drone vs drone dogfight. Interceptors hunting spy, bombers, and kamikaze drones.
AngryData · 5h ago
Im more worried about these type of things causing us to blast each other and ourselves back to the 1920s or so during conflicts when small explosive EMPs start being viewed as less damaging than drones and robots. A fast explosive on the back of a neodynium magnet and a few coils of copper can make a hell of an EMP blast. The only reason we don't use them now is due to all the collateral damage, but if drone bombs represent even more damage they become viable. Yeah it will destroy all the radios around and fuck up a bunch of expensive equipment, but you would still have soldiers with guns rather than just smoking craters.
Legend2440 · 4h ago
You could do EMP, but you could also do some sort of point-defense turret. Drones are lightweight and fragile, so it doesn't need to be big - just fast and auto-targeting.
lbotos · 5h ago
I feel like search and rescue after an earthquake where a drone swarm can canvas and categorize if it saw movement or not is one possible "non-bad" use.
jmccarthy · 6h ago
very prompt burrito delivery?
cluckindan · 5h ago
If by burrito you mean shaped charge high explosives with lethal shrapnel, triggered by facial recognition, delivered by drones the size of house sparrows at the speed of sound, then yes, burrito delivery.
roughly · 5h ago
Christ, you sound like my nutritionist.
generalizations · 5h ago
In china probably very soon. In the US? Regulation has already killed that.
contravariant · 4h ago
Sure, just strap a nuke to it and watch WWIII kick off. No terminator necessary.
TYPE_FASTER · 5h ago
Inspecting utilities and other industrial infrastructure.
AlienRobot · 5h ago
Drones flying through your windows to deliver things faster.

Cons: massive invasion of privacy and probably illegal.

Pros: looks cool.

itishappy · 4h ago
I've always thought a user-installable drone-pad in the style of a window AC unit would be the ideal.
zellyn · 5h ago
Looks like most of the comments here are about the use as weapons and the possible dangers. I believe "Slaughterbots" is the canonical sci-fi video on the subject, and it appears to be aging pretty well. Unfortunately…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-2tpwW0kmU

ilikeatari · 6h ago
Looks like it had NVIDIA Jetson Orin NX 16 GB. No GPS, Lidar, motion capture so its vision only. 6s battery so 5 incher?
ilikeatari · 29m ago
Does anyone know the FC or AIO they are flying?
sveinatle · 5h ago
I remember being blown away by a TED talk were "minimum snap trajectories" are planned for quadcopters to fly through hoops and slots.

It's really cool to see this happening fully autonomously and at such high speed. I wonder if the use of AI means that the approach is fundamentally different, or if it uses the same principle of minimizing snap?

https://www.ted.com/talks/vijay_kumar_robots_that_fly_and_co...

leeoniya · 5h ago
ELI5? so, presumably if you put this thing in front of any starting gate it can navigate any course of similar gates?

or was it overfitted to this specific course?

itishappy · 4h ago
They had no prior knowledge of the course.
snewman · 5h ago
A few questions / thoughts:

1. I didn't see it stated explicitly, but I presume the neural net is on the far end of a radio link somewhere, not running on hardware physically mounted on the drone?

2. After viewing the FPV video on the linked page: how the hell do human pilots even come close to this pace? Insane (even assuming that the video they're seeing is higher quality than what's shown on YouTube – is it?)

3. The control software has access to an IMU. This seems to represent some degree of unfair advantage? I presume the human pilots don't have that – unless the IMU data is somehow overlaid onto their FPV view (but even then, I can't imagine how much practice would be needed to learn to make use of that in realtime).

bri3d · 4h ago
1) No, this is interesting specifically because it was all onboard, the drone has Jetson Orin NX on it.

2) No, the video the pilot sees is usually quite bad. Racing pilots usually use either HDZero (mid resolution video with weird pixel artifacts sometimes) or analog video (looks like a broken 1980s VCR). It’s amazing what they can fly through. These DCP spec drones are also slow by racing standards. Look up MultiGP racing, it’s even faster.

3) It can be overlaid but it’s useless. The human pilot is using the control sticks as the input to an outer rate regulation loop which contains the gyro as input to an inner stabilization loop though, so the IMU is still in the mix for human control.

itishappy · 5h ago
1. It's entirely onboard.

2. The video they're seeing is worse. Spectators typically see the frames saved directly from the camera, but the pilot will be seeing them compressed and beamed over the air to their headset. See vid.

3. The human pilots do actually have access to it. Not directly, but the flight controller translates their inputs and makes use of the IMU to do so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMGRLGkm0QE

roughly · 1h ago
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMGRLGkm0QE

I’m reminded of when the US military figured out it should just replace all its proprietary field drone controllers with Xbox controllers because every single grunt that enlisted already had 10,000 hours on the things. If the future of warfare is drones, Christ, that video is terrifying.

xnx · 6h ago
Bright futures for these engineers in the defense industry.
cluckindan · 6h ago
The same cannot be said about whoever runs the site.
GuinansEyebrows · 5h ago
bright futures in the darkest places.
airstrike · 6h ago
Interestingly, the URL for the embedded youtube video ends with the word "FATE"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz2in2eFATE

rossant · 5h ago
Gives me the idea for a silly game: finding YouTube videos with words in their identifiers that are relevant to the content.
emsign · 3h ago
So the drones in the Slaughterbots short film were depicted to be way too slow.
Quitschquat · 4h ago
The drone has a camera and a IMU while the human has only the camera. How big is the advantage there?
itishappy · 4h ago
Humans have a flight controller in the loop, which makes use of the IMU. I doubt we'd be able to make much use of it.
koolala · 4h ago
This feels like a bigger deal than what Carmack is doing with an Atari controller robot.
polishdude20 · 2h ago
> Flying drones faster will be important for many economic and societal applications, ranging from delivering blood samples and defibrillators in time to finding people in natural disaster scenarios

Ah yes. No mention of the real big use case

rangestransform · 3h ago
Have the team published based on this work yet?
IshKebab · 6h ago
So is the processing happening on the drone? Presumably not...
itishappy · 5h ago
Entirely, as is sensing.
rvz · 5h ago
Meanwhile, many defense companies are quietly watching this racing achievement far far away through their palantíri orb researching who built that autonomous drone.
77pt77 · 5h ago
https://archive.is/wip/H3AAn

Since I can't access.

NooneAtAll3 · 5h ago
...why are we training skynet again?
bamboozled · 4h ago
because there is money in it ?
siavosh · 6h ago
I man at this point, given what we know I'm sure someone smart can connect some dots and describe what's inevitable with 99% confidence just in the next year or two in terms of society right?
CamperBob2 · 6h ago
The only question is whether motors or propellers will be banned for private sale first. (After drones themselves, of course.)
dylan604 · 6h ago
Why? Just request a Waymo, and then put your suitcase nuke in the backseat and watch it be delivered by AI. There's all sorts of ways to kill with AI without needing drones
yunwal · 4h ago
Waymo is not anonymous
dylan604 · 4h ago
goodgooglymoogly, some people just are not creative thinkers at all. you think someone with the ability of creating a suitcase nuke isn't going to have the means to have a fake identity specifically for this purpose? or just steal someone else's? or being willing to make that sacrifice so being anonymous isn't a requirement?
siavosh · 6h ago
Yeah I man with each day the chance of a shocking event increases to 100% with predictable outcomes. But yeah thats what I'm thinking of .. there has to be a finite number of dimensions for this and related technologies in terms of use and impact (legal, economics, PR, military, political etc), some are fuzzier than others but some should be pretty clear for some analyst to share..
burningChrome · 5h ago
My first worry wouldn't be this.

I got out of doing drone work because of all the FAA restrictions on where you can fly drones now. Within 30 miles of a major metro area? Nope. Within 20 miles of an airport? Nope. I'm exaggerating of course, but it got to a point where I was having real problems trying to find areas where you can fly a drone just for fun so I just gave up and quit.

My more immediate fear would be how the gov can control who and where these drones will be able to fly. If some revolutionary built a swarm of drones, it would be pretty easy (I would think) for the gov to just jam the signal and shut them down.

The parts? I'm not worried about. Its the gov holding the keys to access that makes me more worried.

CamperBob2 · 5h ago
Jam what signal? You'd need a HERF gun to stop an autonomous drone -- a real one, not something made from recycled microwave oven parts -- and an EMP bomb of some sort to stop a swarm of them.
TechDebtDevin · 6h ago
I kind of prefer this, even without bombs i dont want unregulated idiots dropping a drone on my head in an urban space.
CamperBob2 · 4h ago
That's OK. There's probably something you like that I'd like to ban, too.
TechDebtDevin · 6h ago
10 years.. But yeah. Just wait until these things can move through space with physical/gyro sensors on their own, at affordable costs. When orin nano super is the cost of an Esp32 (and the size of).

No gps, no fiber, no 5g, no jamming except microwaves. A python file and a target.

Scary times ahead.

itishappy · 5h ago
This is that. This race used only a single forward-facing camera and IMU fed to an onboard Orin NX.
dylan604 · 6h ago
What do you mean just wait until? The entire point of TFA is that AI is controlling the motors directly and not using some human input device. So I guess it's just wait until you actually read TFA and watch the embedded video?